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03-01-2012 02:32 AM
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  1. fogel35's Avatar
    It's my opinion, and based on the fact that Apollo is a HUGE upgrade, not a minor one. The fact that developers are being told that our apps "will be compatible" with Windows Phone 8, suggests to me a backwards compatibility situation. There is so much changing in Windows Phone 8 that I don't see the current upgrade system being able to handle it.

    Honestly you're more than welcome to disagree with me and hope otherwise, but I strongly suggest you don't expect the upgrade, instead anticipate you contract and being able to upgrade your hardware when the time comes.
    If this is how Microsoft is going to handle Windows Phone, then they may as well point a shotgun at their right ankle and remove that foot. While they are at it, they may as well shove a knife through Nokia's chances in the US.
    snowmutt and theefman like this.
    02-21-2012 03:35 PM
  2. paulm187's Avatar
    The way I see it there are only two possible outcomes

    1) Gen 2 phones - perhaps limited to the Nokia 900+ will be a special case and upgraded

    or

    2) Windows Phone 8 will not arrive till Q1 next year. Current phones not upgradable
    02-21-2012 03:38 PM
  3. Major's Avatar
    The way I see it there are only two possible outcomes

    1) Gen 2 phones - perhaps limited to the Nokia 900+ will be a special case and upgraded

    or

    2) Windows Phone 8 will not arrive till Q1 next year. Current phones not upgradable
    The way I see it, all current devices will get Apollo, but not every feature in Apollo will be supported by every device. First generation devices will probably have some reduced functionality and Mango phones will probably have full functionality minus stuff that would require specialized hardware (such as NFC).

    Keep in mind that first generation devices run Mango like champs. This isn't Android, or to a lesser extent, iOS. My daughter's 3GS runs iOS 5, just not as well as my wife's 4S. Android however, is a lost cause. My two year old Captivate (which I gave to my sister) can barely run Froyo. Throw the notions conceived by your experiences with other OSes out the "Window" when dealing with WP7 (pun intended).
    02-21-2012 03:53 PM
  4. snowmutt's Avatar
    I am sure 2nd Gen devices will get WP8. I am pretty sure 1st Gen devices will get it. When you see how Microsoft is trying to build this brand, the package is pretty important. And the package has always been: It will be seamless in it's performance, it will be secure it it's operation, and it will be supported. Even if they have to get the shoe horn out to cram to in there, they will figure a way to make it happen.
    As for which device: Wait until the MWC announcements and jump on a handset than.
    02-21-2012 04:02 PM
  5. num_lock_er's Avatar
    I think all Windows Phones will receive the update, but older phones will simply be limited by their physical hardware. Pretty simple. If it brings a feature that requires a certain piece of hardware your phone doesn't have, you just wont be able to use that part of the OS.

    Its no different than with the front facing cameras and other hardware support that Mango brought. Mango brought the ability to use one, but my phone doesn't have a front camera so I not only can't use it, I don't even see the option.

    There is no way MS will alienate their current user-base, and even less of a chance they are going to basically "drop support" for the Nokia phones they are banking so heavily on that are just now being released.
    So It is better to buy a HTC Radar than an HD 7 / HD 7 Pro for the same price?

    That is also what I'm thinking, if Windows 8 will run on a 1 GHz netbook 512mb shared VRAM, why can't Windows Phone 8 run on a 1 GHZ 512mb phone?
    02-21-2012 10:19 PM
  6. paulm187's Avatar
    Its not a question of whether WP8 will run on Gen1 devices, but rather would carriers and manufacturers support it. I think Nokia is a spec ial case. To be honest, its not even confirmed if Wp8 will be released this year, it is still specul ation. I hope all WP7 devices will be upgradable but im not holding my breath.

    Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
    02-22-2012 02:37 AM
  7. freestaterocker's Avatar
    Thanks for welcoming TheWeeBear :D I will wait for MWC next week before I buy a WP7 phone.

    I am once a 1st gen iPhone and current Android user. Currently I am looking for a breath of fresh air in UI.

    Which one I will buy, HTC HD7, Hd7 Pro or Radar. Considering that they have the same price and only HTC and Nokia is available in my area. Titan and Lumia is out of my budget. I am concerned more with larger screen size and upgradability to Windows Phone 8. Thanks.

    Thank you.
    As an HD7 owner, I recommend the Radar. The only advantage the HD7 offers is screen size. The Radar has a faster gpu, ffc, and the best battery life among WP7 devices to date. The HD7 has the worst battery life AFAIK. I can kill it in under 3 hours if I'm gaming, browsing, etc. I wish I'd held out for the Radar.
    02-22-2012 06:54 AM
  8. freestaterocker's Avatar
    :D



    It's been noted. Thanks. :)

    MS really need to speak up on this matter... as it's sort of a biggie...
    Yeah. A tweet from Ballmer or something. It's hurting potential sales of their new flagship devices, and they really can't afford to take the hit...
    02-22-2012 07:05 AM
  9. canesfan625's Avatar
    It's my opinion, and based on the fact that Apollo is a HUGE upgrade, not a minor one. The fact that developers are being told that our apps "will be compatible" with Windows Phone 8, suggests to me a backwards compatibility situation. There is so much changing in Windows Phone 8 that I don't see the current upgrade system being able to handle it.

    Honestly you're more than welcome to disagree with me and hope otherwise, but I strongly suggest you don't expect the upgrade, instead anticipate you contract and being able to upgrade your hardware when the time comes.


    Okay, So being a big update negates the possibility of getting the update? Did I switch to Android in my sleep? Windows 7 apps working on Windows Phone 8 doesn't mean anything. What you are suggesting here is that because Microsoft is going to make sure every single app out doesn't break when Apollo hits that 1st gen cant get Apollo. What device doesn't have backwards compatibility? They want their unified ecosystem. Write the app once and done. The same reason why its rumored that WP8 apps will run in Windows 8.

    The upgrade system handling it? I'm not sure what you mean. It seems kinda like saying the update system cant handle Xbox dashboard updates. Each winter update has been kinda 'big' from the last.

    1) By Q4 2012 there will more more than 15-20 million Windows Phone 7 users. While this is a small percentage of the smartphone market, it is a considerable number of people to p*ss off while at the same time trying to convince 10 million more to buy your new phones.

    2) Microsoft will continue to sell single core mid-range and cheaper Windows Phones, meaning there should not be any reason why Windows Phone 8 will not run on Windows Phone 7 hardware. The alternative is two code bases for cheap and expensive handsets, which negates the whole reason for the kernel transplant to start with.
    and this is from a former Microsoft distinguished engineer.
    It is likely WP8 will run on first generation WP phones, and near certain it will work on the second generation (those that initially ship with) WP7.5 Microsoft wants a reputation of being as end-user friendly as Apple and so will not drop updates on older phones until their is a technological reason to do so. Plus it isn’t likely to want to **** people off who are sill in a 2-year contract period, which will be the case with most of the installed base. So I don’t see WP8 as a reason to wait. Now if you already have a first gen device (e.g., Samsung Focus) you might want to skip the second gen (e.g., Focus S) and see what happens next summer or fall.
    Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8: Cousins or Siblings | Hal's (Im)Perfect Vision
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 02-22-2012 at 08:55 AM.
    02-22-2012 08:34 AM
  10. Jay Bennett's Avatar
    Canesfan I hope you're right, and I can say no more than that. Regardless I stand by my advice that you should not just expect an upgrade to Windows Phone 8, instead don't lock yourself into a contract of more than 12 months if you can avoid it, just to be sure that if the upgrade isn't possible, you won't be waiting too long for WP8
    02-22-2012 08:59 AM
  11. Old_Cus's Avatar
    Hmmmmm......both my son and wife will be able to upgrade the middle of July. I think I'm going to choose not to lose any sleep over this and if for some reason I can't update my Focus S to WP8 I'll just use one of their upgrades. :P
    02-22-2012 01:21 PM
  12. TheDoros's Avatar
    I don't think gen 1 devices will get wp8 due to hardware limitations. Also if you think about it gen 1 devices will have been supported for 2 years or more. We got NoDo then Mango, and soon Tango.

    However, I really do think that gen 2 devices will get it. At least I hope they do, otherwise i think I may have to agree with the shooting off the foot comment.
    02-23-2012 08:33 PM
  13. bilzkh's Avatar
    I wouldn't say 1st/2nd generation devices would transition fully into Apollo, but we might see a 'bridge' update between Mango and Apollo that brings some key Apollo software to Mango. For example, we could see the next-generation Internet Explorer, Office, more native/integrated SkyDrive connectivity, integrated Skype, enhanced integration of FB/Twitter, UI changes and other features we might presume of Apollo reach Mango/Tango. You might not get the full Apollo experience, but hey, at least your current devices will be up to par in many (if not most) aspects of the software. Of course, many other aspects (specifically those that will rely on hardware such as NFC, multi-core, etc) will not reach current devices.
    02-24-2012 12:24 AM
  14. Mahesha999's Avatar
    Hi I will buy a WP7 phone now but I've heard that it is unsure if it can be upgrade to the upcoming WP8 OS.

    Can I upgrade it to WP8 or not? Thanks.
    MS always allow upgrading things on the same hardware requirements, unless the software is not a big change - computationally.

    All the Win XP were upgradable to Win 7, provided they had 1 GB of memory. Also I was able to install Win 8 Dev Preview on my old sys.

    Looking to the way WP Mango runs on 1GHz, I think Apollo will also be able to run on same 1GHz processors. So I think all WP will be upgradable to Apollo. But... they may charge you extra, since its not an update in the same 7.x series. Its a new OS v8.

    Hopefully things will update.
    02-24-2012 07:23 AM
  15. selfcreation's Avatar
    I don't think gen 1 devices will get wp8 due to hardware limitations. Also if you think about it gen 1 devices will have been supported for 2 years or more. We got NoDo then Mango, and soon Tango.

    However, I really do think that gen 2 devices will get it. At least I hope they do, otherwise i think I may have to agree with the shooting off the foot comment.

    first and second GEN device have IDENTICAL stats ( aside from he extra .400 processors, and the random camera *witch doesn't effect updates* )

    i think BOTH generation will ether: get it or both .. Wont get it. ....
    02-24-2012 10:36 AM
  16. kevm14's Avatar
    I wouldn't say they are identical. Architecture-wise, sure.

    But the MSM8255T is a totally different part than the first gen QSD8250 (45nm vs 65nm process), and has a faster GPU, and I'd wager a guess that they all have faster NAND flash memory.

    This doesn't change the argument that WP8 will or will not come to first gen devices because I think it'll run well within their performance envelope. But they are not the same.
    02-24-2012 03:21 PM
  17. borjeboy's Avatar
    Well i can't see that nokia aren't getting it on Lumia they have worked so hard togheter with MS on it. And used so much money and given up the meego system and all..
    Also normally nokia has a reputation for supporting there phones with upgrades in many years..
    02-24-2012 03:41 PM
  18. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I'm fairly confident all Windows Phone devices will receive the Apollo update for the following reasons:

    1. There is no "high" or "low" end when it comes to Windows Phone. All the phones of the Gen are on mostly the same hardware! So if one device gets it (I.e. Lumia), all similar devices will get it.

    2. Since there is so little fragmentation, updates are unlikely to take lots of work and Microsoft will only be working with roughly 2 configurations.

    3. Microsoft does not want to fragment the Windows Phone ecosystem! Even if mango apps work on Apollo, Microsoft will need as many devices as it can get to attract developers. No way are they starting back at square one.

    4. Two years of support is minimal for a PAID OS. This is not Android! Microsoft is responsible for the update, unlike Google, and manufacturers will complain! I'd like to point out at this moment that iOS devices are supported for 3/4 years and receive the entirety of 3 major updates!

    5. Microsoft isn't going to do Tango and then raise specs to the point these devices can't update.

    For these reasons, I expect all Windows Phones to be updated to Apollo.

    EDIT: For those talking about hardware limitations, the one guy is right. Gen 1 isn't that much lower than Gen 2 in the spec sheet. Notice we're on 7.5? Well your hardware got half an upgrade relative to iOS and Android.
    Last edited by Sentimentgx4; 02-25-2012 at 06:21 AM.
    02-25-2012 06:08 AM
  19. paulm187's Avatar
    I really don't think we will hear any announcements at MWC 2012 about Windows Phone 8. We will hear something about Tango and lower end phones. I still suspect that Windows Phone 8 will not see the light of day until 2013 Q1
    02-25-2012 06:45 AM
  20. Major's Avatar
    I know this is a bit of a tangent, but regarding the above comment about this being a paid OS and Android being free:

    Note that while Google itself doesn't charge for Android, OEMs are forced to pay the likes of Microsoft and Apple for using their intellectual property, which Google stole and gave to them in the form of the "free" Android OS. Thus, it's only free if the IP patent holders choose to not protect their assets.
    palandri likes this.
    02-25-2012 10:35 AM
  21. paulm187's Avatar
    ^ Good point, also the fact that Android phone manufacturers have to customise, test and support their "flavour" of Android it all adds up to be a headache and not "free" as they thought.
    02-25-2012 05:39 PM
  22. wildfire555's Avatar
    Microsoft is the OS vendor while Nokia is the hardware vendor, so i think the software might not integrated with the hardware so tight. besides, microsoft said wp8 is a huge upgrage but they don't said it's a brand new system.

    but wp8 is NT kernel while wp7 is win ce. no one knows.
    02-26-2012 03:03 AM
  23. fogel35's Avatar
    Microsoft is the OS vendor while Nokia is the hardware vendor, so i think the software might not integrated with the hardware so tight. besides, microsoft said wp8 is a huge upgrage but they don't said it's a brand new system.

    but wp8 is NT kernel while wp7 is win ce. no one knows.
    Sorry for digging this old thread back up but here is a VP of Windows Phone Division talking about updates. Anyone want to parse this guys language.

    [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n_SoO27JeJ8[/YT]
    02-29-2012 06:47 PM
  24. Carl Bytes's Avatar
    Hi I will buy a WP7 phone now but I've heard that it is unsure if it can be upgrade to the upcoming WP8 OS.

    Can I upgrade it to WP8 or not? Thanks.
    Hi guys :) , any good news on MWC so WP8/Apollo can be installed on WP7 phones?
    03-01-2012 02:32 AM
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