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03-02-2012 04:48 PM
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  1. Fuzzy John's Avatar
    Do not blame MS. Blame your carrier.
    Blame the carrier, of course. But also remind Microsoft that letting the carriers take control of Windows Mobile was in good part responsible for its demise.
    speedtouch, aubreyq and wolf1891 like this.
    02-28-2012 03:29 AM
  2. SnailUK's Avatar
    but when Apple has an update it is release to all carriers, not AT&T now, Verizon a month later and Sprint somewhere in the middle.
    Apple has all the carriers by the short n curlies. iPhones sell themselves, so the carriers HAVE to do what Apple want, otherwise Apple won't sell them the iPhone, and they'll lose a huge percentage of their business overnight.

    Microsoft has no such power. They are currently begging carriers to stock their phones. I bet they are throwing money at the carriers, just to keep the update schedules they have now.

    Moan all you like, i can't imagine you carrier will be bothered about losing WP7 business.

    To be honest, im wondering whether Microsoft should start detaching as much as possible from the OS, and making it an "App", so that they can get round the carrier limitiations.
    03-01-2012 05:50 AM
  3. jrdatrackstar1223's Avatar
    Apple has all the carriers by the short n curlies. iPhones sell themselves, so the carriers HAVE to do what Apple want, otherwise Apple won't sell them the iPhone, and they'll lose a huge percentage of their business overnight.

    Microsoft has no such power. They are currently begging carriers to stock their phones. I bet they are throwing money at the carriers, just to keep the update schedules they have now.

    Moan all you like, i can't imagine you carrier will be bothered about losing WP7 business.

    To be honest, im wondering whether Microsoft should start detaching as much as possible from the OS, and making it an "App", so that they can get round the carrier limitiations.
    That's basically the Apple model, except the carriers wouldn't "know". Say someone downloads an "App" (which is really an OS update) and start having bugs or problems. They'll take it into their carrier and say "What is wrong with my phone?" and the carriers will see that the OS version is different than what has been "agreed upon" and raise heck to Microsoft. Then again, Windows Phone doesn't have nearly the same problems that Android has (just missing features and functions for now), and I've yet to experience the bugs, lockups, reboots, and battery drain I did with Android; perhaps it would work? Who knows....it's never going to happen though....

    The carriers are blackballing Windows Phone right now, but when Windows Phone 8 comes around I believe they'll start to take notice and provide more support. For now, because Windows Phone isn't selling in the states, they aren't caring what happens with your phone or if you leave them because of it for that matter...
    aubreyq likes this.
    03-01-2012 07:26 AM
  4. selfcreation's Avatar
    I'm not saying I'm going to switch to an iPhone over updates and I'm not saying people didn't have problems updating to iOS 5 (even though I updated my wife's phone with no problems), but when Apple has an update it is release to all carriers, not AT&T now, Verizon a month later and Sprint somewhere in the middle. I've had a disappearing keyboard since the mango update in September or October, whenever it was. To some it may not be a big deal, but it really screws up the user experience for me. I'm not going to switch phones over the update, but add that to some other things that bug me and I do think about it.
    carriers roll out update for apple faster cause they have ONE phone.

    the disappearing keyboarded is only happening on ONE WP model out of 20+

    every single WP model has to go true testing compare to Iphones 1 model.... you cant even compare it to apple ,

    if anything, compare it to android not even releasing update on all phones!!! and strait up ignore 90% of them....

    WP has a nice middle between apple and Android.
    03-01-2012 01:01 PM
  5. scottcraft's Avatar
    carriers roll out update for apple faster cause they have ONE phone.

    the disappearing keyboarded is only happening on ONE WP model out of 20+

    every single WP model has to go true testing compare to Iphones 1 model.... you cant even compare it to apple ,

    if anything, compare it to android not even releasing update on all phones!!! and strait up ignore 90% of them....

    WP has a nice middle between apple and Android.
    Apple may have one phone, but I think it's pretty impressive they roll out an update for millions of phones at one time. When iOS 5 was release it was available for all iphone 3GS and 4's that had been sold at the time. That's a very large number of phones. Sure servers crashed and people had problems, but that is several millions of phones updating at a minimum.

    As far as the disappearing keyboard, is it just the Verizon HTC Trophy that has this problem?


    I do agree that WP has a middle ground between Apple and Android. Read through some android forums and see how well updates don't work for those guys.

    I just find it frustrating that my phone has an issue and the update that should fix it hasn't been release on my carrier yet. I could do some hacking and get the update, but if I'm going to start hacking again I might as well go back to android. Regardless I'm sticking with this phone until November and hoping Verizon has a hot Nokia by then.
    03-01-2012 01:25 PM
  6. aubreyq's Avatar
    As far as the disappearing keyboard, is it just the Verizon HTC Trophy that has this problem?
    Nope. Samsung Focus has it. I want to say that the Quantum has it as well but of course it has a physical keyboard ;) My understanding is that if the most recent update your phone got was Mango, then technically you should have the keyboard problem.

    I just find it frustrating that my phone has an issue and the update that should fix it hasn't been release on my carrier yet. I could do some hacking and get the update, but if I'm going to start hacking again I might as well go back to android. Regardless I'm sticking with this phone until November and hoping Verizon has a hot Nokia by then.
    I'm frustrated as well :(
    03-01-2012 01:54 PM
  7. selfcreation's Avatar
    I have a Samsung focus rev1.3 with no problem! (no disappearing keyboard,)
    ( its not on all phones it seems to be a random bug that hits random devices )


    FYI. my carrier is already Working with Apple for Iphone 5 , (has been for over 1month) and the phone is not due for an other year (or so )
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 03-01-2012 at 02:22 PM.
    03-01-2012 02:16 PM
  8. gapost's Avatar
    If you have a Verizon Trophy, you can do the update manually. Really pretty easy and phone works great. Yeah, I know you shouldn't have to, but you can:

    Updating Your Windows Phone to 8107 - RobertMcLa.ws

    I don't know if this works on other models, but it may.
    03-01-2012 02:19 PM
  9. aubreyq's Avatar
    i have a Samsung focus rev1.3 with no problem! (no isappearing keyboard,) ( its not on all phones it seems to be a random bug that hits random devices )


    FYI. my carrier is already Working with Apple for Iphone 5 , (has been for over 1month) and the phone is not due for an other year (or so )
    You're the only person that I've seen consistently claim you don't have the disappearing keyboard on your Samsung Focus (I have rev1.3 as well), so let's just say that yours is a fluke and never got affected, which is good for you but not for the others. The disappearing keyboard is is something that Microsoft themselves acknowledges on the 8107 update log, so obviously it was documented enough for them to issue a fix.

    Regarding your carrier and the iPhone 5, are you saying it's coming to your CARRIER a year from now, because there is no way Apple will not release a new iPhone this year.
    03-01-2012 02:26 PM
  10. selfcreation's Avatar
    You're the only person that I've seen consistently claim you don't have the disappearing keyboard on your Samsung Focus (I have rev1.3 as well), so let's just say that yours is a fluke and never got affected, which is good for you but not for the others. The disappearing keyboard is is something that Microsoft themselves acknowledges on the 8107 update log, so obviously it was documented enough for them to issue a fix.

    Regarding your carrier and the iPhone 5, are you saying it's coming to your CARRIER a year from now, because there is no way Apple will not release a new iPhone this year.
    and im still on : 7.10.8107.79 , honestly some times I wish it disappeared !! some times i can get it to move out of the way LOL.

    yeah , im not saying its coming out now , im saying they are already working with apple on the next version of the Phone. ( as a matetr of fact we have one locked behind a door and only 5 people in the company are allowed to access it (programers) )
    03-01-2012 02:34 PM
  11. scottcraft's Avatar
    If you have a Verizon Trophy, you can do the update manually. Really pretty easy and phone works great. Yeah, I know you shouldn't have to, but you can:

    Updating Your Windows Phone to 8107 - RobertMcLa.ws

    I don't know if this works on other models, but it may.
    I'll read that link later. If it's not too difficult I might try it. Thanks for sharing.
    03-01-2012 04:21 PM
  12. aubreyq's Avatar
    and im still on : 7.10.8107.79 , honestly some times I wish it disappeared !! some times i can get it to move out of the way LOL.

    yeah , im not saying its coming out now , im saying they are already working with apple on the next version of the Phone. ( as a matetr of fact we have one locked behind a door and only 5 people in the company are allowed to access it (programers) )
    If you're on 8107 then that's why you don't have the keyboard problem. A lot of us still don't have 8107.
    03-01-2012 11:08 PM
  13. N8ter's Avatar
    The issue is the 8107 (or whatever number it is) being stifled by US carriers.

    We need to let AT&T know how we feel about the update process, and we need to do it repeatedly and en masse. The problem with AT&T is that they're not afraid to lose customers because only a handful of them know (or care) about how crappy their update system is. Maybe if they saw a sizable group filing complaints then perhaps they would get off their butts.
    Why are people blaming AT&T? No US carriers are rolling this Update out and AT&T was the first one to be rumored to have it ready to go out.

    T-Mobile devices are not getting this update, and AFAIK Sprint and Verizon devices aren't getting it either.

    I don't mind waiting for relatively non-factor updates, but when things like the soft keyboard is horribly broken it becomes an issue when you have to wait this long for a bug fix.

    As far as the Twitter spamming. That worked with T-Mobile. Don't expect it to work for AT&T or Verizon, or even Sprint at this point since most of their new activations come from the iPhone and WP marketshare numbers clearly demonstrate that even if you try to zerg them you won't matter as far as the numbers are concerned.

    The T-Mobile Vibrant Twitter spamming worked because it was one of T-Mobile's only high end Flagship phones and way more people had it than do Windows Phones. T-Mobile also isn't as comfortable financially/subscriber-wise as AT&T and the others.
    03-02-2012 02:09 AM
  14. N8ter's Avatar
    carriers roll out update for apple faster cause they have ONE phone.

    the disappearing keyboarded is only happening on ONE WP model out of 20+

    every single WP model has to go true testing compare to Iphones 1 model.... you cant even compare it to apple ,

    if anything, compare it to android not even releasing update on all phones!!! and strait up ignore 90% of them....

    WP has a nice middle between apple and Android.
    AT&T has 3 Apple phones, so you're wrong.

    3GS, 4, 4S.

    All of them have different iOS builds and different hardware in them.

    They also have 3G iPad and iPad 2s.

    So that's 5 Apple iOS devices AT&T carriest.

    iOS updates come straight from Apple. The carrier does do testing but they do not do the type of backburnering that they do with other platforms (Symbian, WinMo, WP7, Android, even WebOS and BB) with Apple devices.

    When the Apple update comes out for the iPhone on AT&T it's there for Verizon and Sprint as well as there for all other models the iOS update supports.

    We seen this with iOS 5, iOS 5.0.1 and I guarantee you we will see it again with iOS 5.1.

    Issues with iOS devices updating had a lot to do with the strain on Apple's servers. In addition to AT&T i3GS and 4, they also had the Verizon iPhone 4, all iPads, and 4th Generation iPod Touches getting iOS 5 updates from them. That's par from the course when you have SO MANY devices pulling data from your servers.

    The fact that they were able to get through it at all is impressive, IMO.

    In any case, the model argument is mute and has been since Apple started keeping the other model on the market as a mid-range offering, and especially since they started putting out CDMA devices with major internal differences from the GSM version.

    Also, Android updates for Nexus devices are typically fast, especially bug fix and security updates, and Android OEMs have generally outperformed WP7 OEMs as far as getting updates out even on the same carriers.
    03-02-2012 02:43 AM
  15. aubreyq's Avatar
    ...No US carriers are rolling this Update out and AT&T was the first one to be rumored to have it ready to go out.

    T-Mobile devices are not getting this update, and AFAIK Sprint and Verizon devices aren't getting it either.
    That's not correct. U.S. Cellular rolled it out for the HTC 7 Pro and T-Mobile for the HTC Radar:

    http://www.windowscentral.com/us-cel...date-htc-7-pro

    http://www.windowscentral.com/t-mobi...ng-8107-update

    So "blaming" AT&T is more or less appropriate since the ball is on their court. They may decide to skip it, but again that would be AT&T to "blame."
    03-02-2012 06:35 AM
  16. russshoe's Avatar
    03-02-2012 03:00 PM
  17. selfcreation's Avatar
    AT&T has 3 Apple phones, so you're wrong.

    3GS, 4, 4S.

    All of them have different iOS builds and different hardware in them.

    They also have 3G iPad and iPad 2s.

    So that's 5 Apple iOS devices AT&T carriest.

    iOS updates come straight from Apple. The carrier does do testing but they do not do the type of backburnering that they do with other platforms (Symbian, WinMo, WP7, Android, even WebOS and BB) with Apple devices.

    When the Apple update comes out for the iPhone on AT&T it's there for Verizon and Sprint as well as there for all other models the iOS update supports.

    We seen this with iOS 5, iOS 5.0.1 and I guarantee you we will see it again with iOS 5.1.

    Issues with iOS devices updating had a lot to do with the strain on Apple's servers. In addition to AT&T i3GS and 4, they also had the Verizon iPhone 4, all iPads, and 4th Generation iPod Touches getting iOS 5 updates from them. That's par from the course when you have SO MANY devices pulling data from your servers.

    The fact that they were able to get through it at all is impressive, IMO.

    In any case, the model argument is mute and has been since Apple started keeping the other model on the market as a mid-range offering, and especially since they started putting out CDMA devices with major internal differences from the GSM version.

    Also, Android updates for Nexus devices are typically fast, especially bug fix and security updates, and Android OEMs have generally outperformed WP7 OEMs as far as getting updates out even on the same carriers.
    ok, now that you got that off your chest in a unrelated forum , you can try posting it on a useful place like the at&T forum :)

    AT&T Wireless Community - AT&T Community Support your Complaints will go much farther if you actually post them in a places that matters! like the Company responsible(at&t)!!! hope this helps.

    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 03-02-2012 at 03:55 PM.
    03-02-2012 03:36 PM
  18. jfa1's Avatar
    My thoughts exactly (although I'm on Tmobile). The issue is that carriers know that most people don't know what an update is, so they don't "waste time" updating and sit on their butts and push iPhone and Android....

    The only reason I'm putting up with it right now is that Windows Phone is the best option for me right now while not being committed to a contract with my Lumia 710 and the bugs aren't as bad as they were on Android, and the this is the best OS by far as far as looks and natural use. However, I'm not one to settle, and when an OS has a flaw I call it out....
    If you are displeased with the way MS updates let them know by all means. From the comments in te rest pof this thread not everyone feels the way that you and several others do. Theres also the suggestion app to voice you desire for changes I hope you have been using that as well. It seems to me at least that MS has been listening to the suggestions in making the changes in the update itself. When Tango comes its coming to all devices and it should be a cumulative update meaning the 7740 and 8107 will be forthcoming as well. I dont have either one of those butits been no big deal my keyboard hasnt been disappearing (i dont have but a couple of background agents on (i'll knock on some wood to keep it away now!)
    selfcreation likes this.
    03-02-2012 04:34 PM
  19. selfcreation's Avatar
    03-02-2012 04:48 PM
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