Windows Phone 7's Upgrade to WP8 Apollo Now Unclear

[eric12341]

I would like to pester them because in my opinion windows phone 7.5 is a BETA version.
It's not obvious until you try to use it in real life. There are bugs in MS Answers that have yet to be resolved a year an a half later... I want windows 8 to hope for a phone that works as advertized, otherwise my focus flash is going right back to the store this week!

How is it a BETA version? My HD7 is so far the best working phone I have ever had. I'm able to do more on it and faster than even on my home PC at times. It also most certainly works better than the androids of the people I know. IN FACT my moms Android completely crashed last night, my cousin's Android acts like its got a mind of it's own sometimes; so go ahead and try to take it back because that's exactly what you'll be getting yourself into.

Hate to sound sound so negative, but I think it is fair to say that IOS was a much more mature platform as compared to WP7 at this point?

how is iOS more mature and developed than WP mango? All it is is an app launcher, it doesn't have any unique built in functionality, you need an app to do anything, you can't even select mobile or desktop view without having to install a 3rd party web browser (journey is buggy as ****).

 

[bananapeal]

Also mr. eric#s this replies to you also... but i will admit i am naive, this is my first "smart" phone.

And 8107 fixed quite a few bugs if AT&T would just send it out... no comment. Beyond that WP is not a beta product, it can stand up to the best and beat them at their game (hence the #smokedbywindowsphone).

Lol yes, if only att would send it out, maybe some issues would go away. I actually cannot use the MS answers site with mango. It doesn't know what to do with the logging in popup. How ridiculous is that? IE has no find on page? come on!

Have you tried skydrive app? Other than downloading the odd word document it's largely useless.

idk i could go on but it's not the right thread... If M$ would stand behind their early adopters I'd feel better about giving them my mobile business. I'm seriously wavering right now.

 

[eric12341]

Also mr. eric#s this replies to you also... but i will admit i am naive, this is my first "smart" phone.




Lol yes, if only att would send it out, maybe some issues would go away. I actually cannot use the MS answers site with mango. It doesn't know what to do with the logging in popup. How ridiculous is that? IE has no find on page? come on!

Have you tried skydrive app? Other than downloading the odd word document it's largely useless.

idk i could go on but it's not the right thread... If M$ would stand behind their early adopters I'd feel better about giving them my mobile business. I'm seriously wavering right now.

seems like you didn't even read my post at all. The login popup that some sites use do that on all mobile browsers, it's because those popups don't know how to react to smaller screens and touch input. It's not MS fault. Use the integrated SkyDrive, its much better, I can access .pdfs from the office hub and just about any picture or video I've uploaded. Some apps even allow SkyDrive streaming.

 

[scottcraft]

How is it a BETA version? My HD7 is so far the best working phone I have ever had. I'm able to do more on it and faster than even on my home PC at times. It also most certainly works better than the androids of the people I know. IN FACT my moms Android completely crashed last night, my cousin's Android acts like its got a mind of it's own sometimes; so go ahead and try to take it back because that's exactly what you'll be getting yourself into.


how is iOS more mature and developed than WP mango? All it is is an app launcher, it doesn't have any unique built in functionality, you need an app to do anything, you can't even select mobile or desktop view without having to install a 3rd party web browser (journey is buggy as ****).

I agree that mango is definitely not beta. It is very smooth and consistent. However I do think iOS is more mature and developed than mango. Notifications are better and there are more options in the settings. I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of offhand. I do think the way iOS does some things is quirky, but overall it's pretty polished.

 

[eric12341]

I agree that mango is definitely not beta. It is very smooth and consistent. However I do think iOS is more mature and developed than mango. Notifications are better and there are more options in the settings. I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of offhand. I do think the way iOS does some things is quirky, but overall it's pretty polished.

more options? Just to set restrictions but that's about it, can't set the browser to identify as mobile or desktop and can't even adjust the camera settings.

 

[bananapeal]

seems like you didn't even read my post at all. The login popup that some sites use do that on all mobile browsers, it's because those popups don't know how to react to smaller screens and touch input. It's not MS fault. Use the integrated SkyDrive, its much better, I can access .pdfs from the office hub and just about any picture or video I've uploaded. Some apps even allow SkyDrive streaming.

i did too read your post. others OSes have their bugs. perhaps my expectations are misplaced. when i first heard "skydrive" i thought "ipod in the sky" but you can't stream like that yet and zune has no idea skydrive exists. I mean I get that it does office stuff fine but who has 25gb of reading material?

To me it seems like zune could add integration also. kinda like incomplete feature set. This among other things led me to think "not quite done yet". I really don't mean to sound like a hater, I love and have maxed out the integration options. I'm just concerned that MS will leave us like this while people who jump on the bandwagon later get awesomer more capable phones...

with windows answers, does the ms employee that's in charge of that not have a WP to see his product doesn't quite work right? lol;.

that no desktop mode for the browser in ios is huge. hatemobile sites. will try to play with someone's iphone tomorrow to compare

 

[eric12341]

i did too read your post. others OSes have their bugs. perhaps my expectations are misplaced. when i first heard "skydrive" i thought "ipod in the sky" but you can't stream like that yet and zune has no idea skydrive exists. I mean I get that it does office stuff fine but who has 25gb of reading material?

To me it seems like zune could add integration also. kinda like incomplete feature set. This among other things led me to think "not quite done yet". I really don't mean to sound like a hater, I love and have maxed out the integration options. I'm just concerned that MS will leave us like this while people who jump on the bandwagon later get awesomer more capable phones...

with windows answers, does the ms employee that's in charge of that not have a WP to see his product doesn't quite work right? lol;.

that no desktop mode for the browser in ios is huge. hatemobile sites. will try to play with someone's iphone tomorrow to compare

Zune SkyDrive integration will come in Apollo which all WP devices will get. It's not only MS Answers that does that, lots of other sites do it too. Its not the fault of MS that it does that.

 

[dkp23]

Zune SkyDrive integration will come in Apollo which all WP devices will get. It's not only MS Answers that does that, lots of other sites do it too. Its not the fault of MS that it does that.

Not sure where you read that MS specifically said that Wp7 devices will upgrade to Apollo because they clearly refused to answer that question. See link in OP...I also do not konw what you mean by Zune Skydrive integration because Zune is going away and replaced by xbox live, meaning that music, video, multimedia will be under xbox live branding.

MS has not said whether they will or will not upgrade wp7 devices to apollo, it is only speculation right now. Logically, people will say YES it will happen because why would they not continue to support? Well decisions are made by their execs and we will see going forward if they decided.

 

[canesfan625]

Hehe if you bothered to read you would've noticed my post where I linked the youtube audio and full transcript

http://forums.windowscentral.com/1629953-post52.htm

Anything besides a sensationalist article about an unannounced product? (Microsoft generally does not comment on unannounced products) There weren't any revelations in this article as they claim. Please show this indication that NO devices will be updated. I can see where there *might* be indication that certain devices might not be.

 

[eric12341]

Not sure where you read that MS specifically said that Wp7 devices will upgrade to Apollo because they clearly refused to answer that question. See link in OP...I also do not konw what you mean by Zune Skydrive integration because Zune is going away and replaced by xbox live, meaning that music, video, multimedia will be under xbox live branding.

MS has not said whether they will or will not upgrade wp7 devices to apollo, it is only speculation right now. Logically, people will say YES it will happen because why would they not continue to support? Well decisions are made by their execs and we will see going forward if they decided.

the whole point of this thread is bs, just because the question wasn't answered doesn't mean that the upgrade path is unclear or that it's not going to happen. I don't see why it wouldn't happen for Gen 1 & 1.5 devices. And what I meant by Zune SkyDrive integration is that SkyDrive will be integrated in the main music player.

 

[ubizmo]

the whole point of this thread is bs, just because the question wasn't answered doesn't mean that the upgrade path is unclear or that it's not going to happen.

Actually, that's just what "unclear" does mean. The question wasn't answered, so there is no clarity on the matter. So we are left to speculate, which is what we've all been doing in this thread.

The way I see it, if MS knew for certain that current generation devices could be upgraded to WP8, they'd have every reason to say so, since it would be good for sales of these phones. But they haven't said so, and haven't given any direct answer to the question. What's the best explanation of this behavior?

Either...

1. They really don't know, because WP8 is too far from finished to be able to make a determination.

or

2. They know that some or all current generation devices won't be upgraded, but they don't want to kill sales by announcing that.

I'm inclined to believe the 2nd explanation, because I think WP8 must be far enough along in its development cycle for the basic hardware requirements to have been worked out. I'm no software engineer but it seems to me that you'd nail down the hardware requirements pretty early in development and then design the OS within those parameters. It doesn't make much sense to build an OS and then see what hardware it can be shoehorned into.

 

[canesfan625]

Actually, that's just what "unclear" does mean. The question wasn't answered, so there is no clarity on the matter. So we are left to speculate, which is what we've all been doing in this thread.

The way I see it, if MS knew for certain that current generation devices could be upgraded to WP8, they'd have every reason to say so, since it would be good for sales of these phones. But they haven't said so, and haven't given any direct answer to the question. What's the best explanation of this behavior?

Either...

1. They really don't know, because WP8 is too far from finished to be able to make a determination.

or

2. They know that some or all current generation devices won't be upgraded, but they don't want to kill sales by announcing that.

I'm inclined to believe the 2nd explanation, because I think WP8 must be far enough along in its development cycle for the basic hardware requirements to have been worked out. I'm no software engineer but it seems to me that you'd nail down the hardware requirements pretty early in development and then design the OS within those parameters. It doesn't make much sense to build an OS and then see what hardware it can be shoehorned into.

The knowledge of requirements is irrelevant. It's an unannounced product. Microsoft does not speak to them.

Speaking to Apples process and then saying there isnt anything to announce is indication of not a single device being updated?

 

[dkp23]

the whole point of this thread is bs, just because the question wasn't answered doesn't mean that the upgrade path is unclear or that it's not going to happen. I don't see why it wouldn't happen for Gen 1 & 1.5 devices. And what I meant by Zune SkyDrive integration is that SkyDrive will be integrated in the main music player.

The point of this thread isnt BS because clearly, MS has not stated if they are if they wont upgrade to Apollo and of course, we all want to know and here to speculate.

You are correct, because they did not answer doesnt mean that the path is unclear or that it is not going to happen, but at the same time, the path is may be clear to them, but still unclear to the rest of the world. In addition, it also does not mean it will not be upgradable, but it doesn't say it will be upgradable. That is why it is still speculation and this thread is for discussion purposes which all forums are for.

You may not see why they wouldnt upgrade current devices, but you never know with large corporations. I can ask why MS is not announcing that current devices would be able to upgrade now because if they did, wouldn't you think more people would have feel more comfortable buying current gen devices? Due to the fact they sidestepped the question, didnt give comfort to the users that want to go WP which pretty much halts current gen sales/market share, you have no other choice to wonder if current devices will be upgradable.

 

[canesfan625]

The point of this thread isnt BS because clearly, MS has not stated if they are if they wont upgrade to Apollo and of course, we all want to know and here to speculate.

You are correct, because they did not answer doesnt mean that the path is unclear or that it is not going to happen, but at the same time, the path is may be clear to them, but still unclear to the rest of the world. In addition, it also does not mean it will not be upgradable, but it doesn't say it will be upgradable. That is why it is still speculation and this thread is for discussion purposes which all forums are for.

You may not see why they wouldnt upgrade current devices, but you never know with large corporations. I can ask why MS is not announcing that current devices would be able to upgrade now because if they did, wouldn't you think more people would have feel more comfortable buying current gen devices? Due to the fact they sidestepped the question, didnt give comfort to the users that want to go WP which pretty much halts current gen sales/market share, you have no other choice to wonder if current devices will be upgradable.

Microsoft promised 2 major updates for devices. Tango isn't even announced(nor the update details) yet and people for some reason think they are going to start speaking to Apollo. They are saying nothing because of what happened with NoDo. They announced the details to early and competitors started copying features. Look how pissed they are over the pocketnow Apollo leak

 

[eric12341]

Actually, that's just what "unclear" does mean. The question wasn't answered, so there is no clarity on the matter. So we are left to speculate, which is what we've all been doing in this thread.

The way I see it, if MS knew for certain that current generation devices could be upgraded to WP8, they'd have every reason to say so, since it would be good for sales of these phones. But they haven't said so, and haven't given any direct answer to the question. What's the best explanation of this behavior?

Either...

1. They really don't know, because WP8 is too far from finished to be able to make a determination.

or

2. They know that some or all current generation devices won't be upgraded, but they don't want to kill sales by announcing that.

I'm inclined to believe the 2nd explanation, because I think WP8 must be far enough along in its development cycle for the basic hardware requirements to have been worked out. I'm no software engineer but it seems to me that you'd nail down the hardware requirements pretty early in development and then design the OS within those parameters. It doesn't make much sense to build an OS and then see what hardware it can be shoehorned into.

The point of this thread isnt BS because clearly, MS has not stated if they are if they wont upgrade to Apollo and of course, we all want to know and here to speculate.

You are correct, because they did not answer doesnt mean that the path is unclear or that it is not going to happen, but at the same time, the path is may be clear to them, but still unclear to the rest of the world. In addition, it also does not mean it will not be upgradable, but it doesn't say it will be upgradable. That is why it is still speculation and this thread is for discussion purposes which all forums are for.

You may not see why they wouldnt upgrade current devices, but you never know with large corporations. I can ask why MS is not announcing that current devices would be able to upgrade now because if they did, wouldn't you think more people would have feel more comfortable buying current gen devices? Due to the fact they sidestepped the question, didnt give comfort to the users that want to go WP which pretty much halts current gen sales/market share, you have no other choice to wonder if current devices will be upgradable.

still though, just because ONE person at MS didnt say anything doesnt mean that devices will NOT be upgraded, the requirements for W8 are low enough that even the gen 1 phones can meet them, i dont think the requirements for WP8 will be that different. and if gen 1 devices wont be upgraded i wont be mad because i plan to buy a new phone around then anyway. that being said Gen 1.5 devices (Radar, Lumia,TITAN etc) WILL BE UPGRADED

 

[blehblehbleh]

Anything besides a sensationalist article about an unannounced product? (Microsoft generally does not comment on unannounced products) There weren't any revelations in this article as they claim. Please show this indication that NO devices will be updated. I can see where there *might* be indication that certain devices might not be.

First that's not an article, it's a transcript.

Second, there isn't anything besides sensationalist articles because all we have are the words from the horse's mouth (Myerson's) that are linked in the transcript of the press conference where he said such words and a portion of audio on a specific question so you can hear his tone, intent, etc.

Third, my apologies if that's what you were intentionally looking for but I figured it's better to hear it from the source rather than potential misinterpretations.

 

[canesfan625]

First that's not an article, it's a transcript.

Second, there isn't anything besides sensationalist articles because all we have are the words from the horse's mouth (Myerson's) that are linked in the transcript of the press conference where he said such words and a portion of audio on a specific question so you can hear his tone, intent, etc.

Third, my apologies if that's what you were intentionally looking for but I figured it's better to hear it from the source rather than potential misinterpretations.

I think Apple -- you're right, you can download iOS 5 for iPhone 3G, and it won't be usable, but it's possible to install. So, I don't think -- it's a whole upgrade discussion, it's a very abstract discussion. Statistically speaking, no Android phones get upgraded, none, ever. They have big bugs, they don't even get patched. That's what we're seeing statistically out there. In the case of Apple, they've shipped OS updates to hardware that makes it unusable. It's a great hardware sales tool as far as I can tell. Install this OS which makes your hardware unusably slow, so then you feel compelled to go back to the store and buy a new piece of hardware. And so there are a wide range of things going on in the marketplace.

The scenario where I think the consumer expectations are unfortunately confused, and we just want to be very -- when we announce things, we just want to be very clear about what they are, because this feels like quite a landmine of consumer expectations versus the messaging, that we ultimately deliver, because even if we were to say all phones can be updated, then you get into the -- you know, our business model implies layers of supply chain to get it out to them, and there are certain incentives to get it out to them that have to be talked through. So, there's nothing to announce there, but I think it's unfair to say -- I think Apple has created a great hardware upgrade incentive system around their OS when you upgrade.

I am assuming this is the 'evidence' everyone is suggesting is saying no devices will be updated.

I don't even... This isn't saying squat about apollo updates. He is just bashing the crap out of apple. Until an official statement is made and Apollo is actually announced it should be taken as I'm not saying anything and here is why your statement about apple is invalid.

I have seen others suggest that this is the "evidence"

We haven’t announced Windows Phone 8, but in terms of [compatibility] I can show you our goal to [make sure] all Windows Phone 7 applications will run on Windows Phone 8," he said. "Application compatibility is always something, where there’s always stuff on the fringe... the spirit is our goal that all Windows Phone applications today run on our next release."

You mean making sure that devs don't have to rewrite 60,000 apps is an indication that current devices wont receive apollo?

By article I mean that huge step in whatever kind of logic is being used in the tom/zdnet articles.

Looks like there are still misinterpretations regardless of the format.

 

[Pronk]

I think the issue is in the choice of wording. He's been very clear that WP7 apps will run on WP8, but very evasive about whether WP7 phones will run WP8.

Personally I take app compatibility as a no brainer - and even if a few apps need a tweak, that's no real surprise. So what they've really told us is this:

...

Which is, I suspect, why people have filled in the blanks themselves. And until MS see fit to fill in the blank for us, while some scenarios might be much more likely than others the truth is we can no more rule out no phones being upgraded as we can rule in all phones being upgraded.

It also doesn't help he was plain wrong about the Android and Apple stuff. You can't download iOS5 for the 3G - the 3G is now end of life and has NEVER been supported by iOS5. You can download iOS5 for the 3GS and that actually runs it pretty well - the upgrade he's referring to was a release of iOS4 on the 3G that had some issues that were later resolved. And yes, Android upgrades are a patchy mess, but to say *no* phones get upgraded is simply flat-out untrue. Why he threw in the phrase "statistically speaking" is anyone's guess, because it's nonsense in context.

So basically, trash talking your competitors (with inaccurate statements, as it turns out) and then stating the fairly obvious but giving no details of the thing that customers actually want information about. It's not hard to see why some people are getting jittery about not knowing.

 

[canesfan625]

I think the issue is in the choice of wording. He's been very clear that WP7 apps will run on WP8, but very evasive about whether WP7 phones will run WP8.

Personally I take app compatibility as a no brainer - and even if a few apps need a tweak, that's no real surprise. So what they've really told us is this:

...

Which is, I suspect, why people have filled in the blanks themselves. And until MS see fit to fill in the blank for us, while some scenarios might be much more likely than others the truth is we can no more rule out no phones being upgraded as we can rule in all phones being upgraded.

It also doesn't help he was plain wrong about the Android and Apple stuff. You can't download iOS5 for the 3G - the 3G is now end of life and has NEVER been supported by iOS5. You can download iOS5 for the 3GS and that actually runs it pretty well - the upgrade he's referring to was a release of iOS4 on the 3G that had some issues that were later resolved. And yes, Android upgrades are a patchy mess, but to say *no* phones get upgraded is simply flat-out untrue. Why he threw in the phrase "statistically speaking" is anyone's guess, because it's nonsense in context.

So basically, trash talking your competitors (with inaccurate statements, as it turns out) and then stating the fairly obvious but giving no details of the thing that customers actually want information about. It's not hard to see why some people are getting jittery about not knowing.

He may have been purposefully exaggerating on the Android bit. He is not far off though. . A rather large amount Android devices never make it any closer than 1 major revision behind. I guess it depends on how you define being updated.

 

[red grenadine]

"Microsoft reps claiming Windows Phone 8 definitely coming to second gen handsets, probably to first gen"

Microsoft reps claiming Windows Phone 8 definitely coming to second gen handsets, probably to first gen | WMPoweruser

Wonder if this will help stop all the "sky is falling" nonsense around here