1. kenzibit's Avatar
    We see all the specs a device has except ROM size and ROM is even more important than RAM, CPU which are always listed on devices. Lucky for me my HD7 ROM was listed but you don't get to see them on the lumias, titans etc . All that is listed is internal, RAM, CPU. No ROM and GPU. Meanwhile we all know phones are not updated based on ROM,something most people don't know and it's a very important spec which is not listed. You get to see rom size at settings on most android phones but not windows phones and as a windows phone user and lover, I'm concerned. How can we know our rom before we buy wp and after. I learnt phones are updated mainly due to rom sizes...the bigger your rom, the higher your chance of getting an update. Any help.

    Sent from my HTC HD7 Windows Phone using Board Express.
    Last edited by kenzibit; 03-08-2012 at 03:06 AM.
    03-08-2012 02:59 AM
  2. welsbloke's Avatar
    I am confused are we talking about System RAM? I only cared about the size of the system RAM on my Android because it would fill up with applications and then Gingerbread came along and allowed supported apps to be moved to the secondary memory.

    Are you talking the amount of space the ROM consumes of the System RAM?
    03-08-2012 04:38 AM
  3. MrBurrrns's Avatar
    Because it does not matter and a regular user does not need to know (and should not need to know) anything about ROM. You are way over complicating things.
    03-08-2012 04:40 AM
  4. kenzibit's Avatar
    I am confused are we talking about System RAM? I only cared about the size of the system RAM on my Android because it would fill up with applications and then Gingerbread came along and allowed supported apps to be moved to the secondary memory.

    Are you talking the amount of space the ROM consumes of the System RAM?
    Just talking about the total ROM of the device...for example when you look at HD7 specs at gsmarena.com, the total ROM is listed as 512 MB.
    Apart from this phone, you don't see ROM listed on any other device and my problem is WHY?? I want to know coz I would rather get a phone with a higher ROM just to assure myself to get major OS updates. Hope I'm understood.
    03-08-2012 06:36 AM
  5. kenzibit's Avatar
    Because it does not matter and a regular user does not need to know (and should not need to know) anything about ROM. You are way over complicating things.
    This is not complicated at all and I think it's important to know just as the CPU and the RAM coz I would rather get a phone with a bigger ROM just to assure myself of getting major OS updates. In the Android world, do you know that most phones don't get updated just because of their smaller ROM?? Since major OS updates come out with package sizes bigger than your ROM and that means, you'll never get that OS update...HTC wildfire can never have the full ICS coz ICS is way bigger than this phone's ROM. If phones get updates because of ROM as part of qualification spec, then I would rather get a phone with a bigger ROM. So my problem is why is the ROM not listed? Coz I see it important!
    03-08-2012 06:46 AM
  6. ljkelley's Avatar
    I might effect generation one devices more than generation two devices. As gen one used ROM + SD card for storage. Gen two is one chip if i'm not wrong, so possibly the whole chip can be used for the OS if needed???

    I know the iPhone does not have a seperate ROM chip, just one storage chip based on what model you buy.

    And if I recall all gen one advertised their ROM storage (atleast the HD7 did) in that it was 512MB ROM + 16GB (or 8GB in some countries) SD card. Windows Phone 7 would merge them into one volume but you can bet the OS was stored on the ROM.
    kenzibit likes this.
    03-08-2012 07:10 AM
  7. enahs555's Avatar
    To clarify for people.

    RAM is the memory that your application uses to store data temporarily for calculations. This needs to be super fast, and is temporary (lose it when power goes away)

    "Memory" in phone usage is storage. It is for long term storage of data.

    ROM is long term storage (without power) or system critical components. I.E. the OS. These components need to be on ROM (read only memory). This is where the OS is stored, all off by its self.

    When you hard reset your phone, it clears the memory and ram, but the ROM is untouched.

    User specific OS settings are not stored in the ROM, they are stored in the "memory". It can only be modified in very special modes, like when updating.


    To address what the OP was talking about.
    If your current phones ROM is 512mb, but WP8 will occupy 756MB, you can not update to it!

    Also, to original poster, that is what Wikipedia is for!

    So, the HD7 has 512mb rom, the original Focus has a 1024mb rom. So all other things being equal, if WP8 does increase in size substantially, the Focus is more likely to be compatible then the HD7.


    But as you all know, the phones come with carrier and manufacture specific programs that persist on hard resetting. They are in the ROM storage. So for instance, HTC could cut all that out of the ROM for more room to upgrade and have the users download that and store it directly into memory.
    kenzibit likes this.
    03-08-2012 09:34 AM
  8. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    ROM doesn't actually affect your mobile experience, which is what most consumers care about.

    It just affects the likeliness of your phone to be able to upgrade the OS. A lot of average Joe shoppers don't even ever upgrade their OS given the opportunity. They just don't care.
    Last edited by Sentimentgx4; 03-08-2012 at 12:00 PM.
    kenzibit likes this.
    03-08-2012 11:44 AM
  9. welsbloke's Avatar
    So the issue is really about whether the phone will support a Windows Phone 8 ROM. Which itself will be decided more by the Microsoft Gen1 and Gen2 requirements. Which may mean a phone exceeds these specs but will not be officially supported. The ROM alone is likely to be only one factor when it comes to deciding support.

    So this puts this squarely into the enthusiast bracket.
    kenzibit likes this.
    03-08-2012 12:00 PM
  10. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Well, you can put a laggy OS on a slow phone; but if you don't have enough ROM, it's game over. (Processing requirements are mostly just arbitrary variables set by the software manufacturer, anyways.) Do you want to be at the mercy of Microsoft or Google to optimize file size?

    Also, ROM has big implications if our bootloaders are unlocked and our phone get hacked. For example, the HD7 would also be less likely to get the latest Android, etc. etc.
    kenzibit likes this.
    03-08-2012 12:12 PM
  11. selfcreation's Avatar
    I might effect generation one devices more than generation two devices. As gen one used ROM + SD card for storage. Gen two is one chip if i'm not wrong, so possibly the whole chip can be used for the OS if needed???
    if you put SD card in the first GEn WP , the SD card becomes a part of the main memory.

    that's why once your SD card goes in you CANT take out with out having to do a hard reset.

    We see all the specs a device has except ROM size and ROM is even more important than RAM, CPU which are always listed on devices. Lucky for me my HD7 ROM was listed but you don't get to see them on the lumias, titans etc . All that is listed is internal, RAM, CPU. No ROM and GPU. Meanwhile we all know phones are not updated based on ROM,something most people don't know and it's a very important spec which is not listed. You get to see rom size at settings on most android phones but not windows phones and as a windows phone user and lover, I'm concerned. How can we know our rom before we buy wp and after. I learnt phones are updated mainly due to rom sizes...the bigger your rom, the higher your chance of getting an update. Any help.

    Sent from my HTC HD7 Windows Phone using Board Express.
    ROM is 100% USELESS to know as regular Consumer, honestly only useful to Developers . and even at that only developers playing with the CORE PROGRAMING .. so basically its good to know for hacking purposes or if you work for MS.

    all a ROM is, its flash memory ( READ ONLY MEMORY ) used for the CORE of the OS. and seeing we have ZERO access to core programming = 100% useless ( unless your at XDA dev hacking and slashing a cooked ROM ( manipulated OS )

    ROM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory



    To clarify for people.
    If your current phones ROM is 512mb, but WP8 will occupy 756MB, you can not update to it!
    Also, to original poster, that is what Wikipedia is for!
    So, the HD7 has 512mb rom, the original Focus has a 1024mb rom. So all other things being equal, if WP8 does increase in size substantially, the Focus is more likely to be compatible then the HD7.
    the Samsung FOCUS has 512 ROM not 1024 : Samsung Focus - Full phone specifications

    all first GEn phones have 512 (pre-mango)
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 03-08-2012 at 12:45 PM.
    kenzibit likes this.
    03-08-2012 12:29 PM
  12. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    the Samsung FOCUS has 512 ROM not 1024 : Samsung Focus - Full phone specifications

    all first GEn phones have 512 (pre-mango)
    I've seen conflicting figures floating around (as well as claims that the Focus has 256 MB RAM) and I've had experience when both Wikipedia and GSMArena have been wrong regarding specs.

    For example, the myTouch 3G Slide is listed as having an Adreno 130 GPU on GSMArena but the chipset clearly implies it has an Adreno 200.
    T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide - Full phone specifications

    Ultimately, after some research, Engadget insisted in its Focus review that it has 1 GB ROM and I trust Engadget more than Wikipedia or GSMArena, so I will go with Engadget's figure.
    Samsung Focus review -- Engadget

    (As you can see with the "update", Engadget is a journalistic blog that makes a clear attempt at verifying their facts; which, neither GSMArena or Wikipedia bother to do. -.-)

    EDIT:
    ( unless your at XDA dev hacking and slashing a cooked ROM ( manipulated OS )[/url]
    I'm not going to lie. I hang out around XDA Developers a lot. lol. If were not for the fact I chose WP over Android, I would probably have jailbroken my phone and did all sorts of crazy stuff.

    In the end, the economical side of me won over the techie one. Also, there are a number of concerns regarding Android that swayed me to an alternative OS.
    Last edited by Sentimentgx4; 03-08-2012 at 03:22 PM.
    03-08-2012 01:55 PM
  13. selfcreation's Avatar
    I've seen conflicting figures floating around (as well as claims that the Focus has 256 MB RAM) and I've had experience when both Wikipedia and GSMArena have been wrong regarding specs.

    For example, the myTouch 3G Slide is listed as having an Adreno 130 GPU on GSMArena but the chipset clearly implies it has an Adreno 200.
    T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide - Full phone specifications

    Ultimately, after some research, Engadget insisted in its Focus review that it has 1 GB ROM and I trust Engadget more than Wikipedia or GSMArena, so I will go with Engadget's figure.
    Samsung Focus review -- Engadget

    (As you can see with the "update", Engadget is a journalistic blog that makes a clear attempt at verifying their facts; which, neither GSMArena or Wikipedia bother to do. -.-)
    interesting , its true that some specs are messed up.

    maybe we have a differences between REV1.3 and rev1.4 of the focus? maybe im just wrong :P lol
    03-08-2012 01:58 PM
  14. kenzibit's Avatar
    I might effect generation one devices more than generation two devices. As gen one used ROM + SD card for storage. Gen two is one chip if i'm not wrong, so possibly the whole chip can be used for the OS if needed???

    I know the iPhone does not have a seperate ROM chip, just one storage chip based on what model you buy.

    And if I recall all gen one advertised their ROM storage (atleast the HD7 did) in that it was 512MB ROM + 16GB (or 8GB in some countries) SD card. Windows Phone 7 would merge them into one volume but you can bet the OS was stored on the ROM.
    I see, so basically we can assume that HD7 has two chips (512MB ROM + 16GB) instead of one.
    03-08-2012 02:48 PM
  15. kenzibit's Avatar
    To clarify for people.

    RAM is the memory that your application uses to store data temporarily for calculations. This needs to be super fast, and is temporary (lose it when power goes away)

    "Memory" in phone usage is storage. It is for long term storage of data.

    ROM is long term storage (without power) or system critical components. I.E. the OS. These components need to be on ROM (read only memory). This is where the OS is stored, all off by its self.

    When you hard reset your phone, it clears the memory and ram, but the ROM is untouched.

    User specific OS settings are not stored in the ROM, they are stored in the "memory". It can only be modified in very special modes, like when updating.


    To address what the OP was talking about.
    If your current phones ROM is 512mb, but WP8 will occupy 756MB, you can not update to it!

    Also, to original poster, that is what Wikipedia is for!

    So, the HD7 has 512mb rom, the original Focus has a 1024mb rom. So all other things being equal, if WP8 does increase in size substantially, the Focus is more likely to be compatible then the HD7.


    But as you all know, the phones come with carrier and manufacture specific programs that persist on hard resetting. They are in the ROM storage. So for instance, HTC could cut all that out of the ROM for more room to upgrade and have the users download that and store it directly into memory.

    Just a perfect explanation for all of us.
    ROM is very important when it comes to OS updates but most OEMs dont tell us ROM sizes. What do you think? I think it should just be listed among the RAM coz I've now on decided to consider ROM size when buying a phone but it ain't listed so how can I check??
    03-08-2012 02:59 PM
  16. kenzibit's Avatar
    if you put SD card in the first GEn WP , the SD card becomes a part of the main memory.

    that's why once your SD card goes in you CANT take out with out having to do a hard reset.

    ROM is 100% USELESS to know as regular Consumer, honestly only useful to Developers . and even at that only developers playing with the CORE PROGRAMING .. so basically its good to know for hacking purposes or if you work for MS.

    all a ROM is, its flash memory ( READ ONLY MEMORY ) used for the CORE of the OS. and seeing we have ZERO access to core programming = 100% useless ( unless your at XDA dev hacking and slashing a cooked ROM ( manipulated OS )

    ROM: Read-only memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the Samsung FOCUS has 512 ROM not 1024 : Samsung Focus - Full phone specifications

    all first GEn phones have 512 (pre-mango)
    So does it mean it's still one chip?

    So if all 1Gen phones have a 512MB ROM, any idea on 2nd Gen phones especially for the Lumia 900 and the Titans (I & II)?? From sites, you realize that all current WPs have a 512MB ROM, no more, no less!! Unless I'm wrong in my research.

    So how do the developers know the ROM then in order to choose a device to work on? Do they have to go to the core first?
    For me I think it's hard time OEMs starting listing it coz most of us are concerned because of updates.
    Last edited by kenzibit; 03-08-2012 at 03:28 PM.
    03-08-2012 03:16 PM
  17. selfcreation's Avatar
    I think using the * Diagnosis* app you can some how access it if you know the code.
    its pretty much trial and error on he dev's side to dig into the OS and find the info.

    honestly im not a DEV so i dunno how you can tell if they dont tell you in the specs.

    the thing with the 16GB + 512ROM it doesn't mean you have 16.512GB , the 2 are different memory types! they have different functions.

    the 512rom doesn't effect games/apps and all that . it basically used to instal the OS and the updates.

    best example of this is:

    when you instal WINDOWS on your PC , you normally install the OS on a separate partition ( look at that as the ROM memory )

    and on your SECOND partition is where all your games/applications music video , all installed/saved info goes.
    ( C: (drive) = Windows OS , D: (drive) = every thing else,..ect..)

    to my knowledge that the best explanation I can give. ( its not 100% accurate but I think its pretty much how it works ) honestly you really DONT need to look at that when buying a phone.

    the only reason i would look at it is if MS say tomorrow that WP8 will need 700ROM memory , then I would make sure to buy a WP that had at lease that much.
    kenzibit likes this.
    03-08-2012 03:43 PM
  18. enahs555's Avatar
    Bringing up the confusion with the OP and wanting ROM size listed. It would be nice.

    Because I have discovered many respectable sites claiming the Focus has a ROM of 1024, but other respectable sites saying 512.

    So, I looked around the Samsung sites for US and Canada and I find nothing. But, the Samsung Canada site lists the screen has 24bit, despite being limited to 16bit currently by the OS.


    So, who knows!
    03-08-2012 05:02 PM
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