They said microsoft were mad

[Pronk]

The fee isn't bad, you're only paying it once a year. Plus there's always cards to make it cheaper. They do this to ensure that everyone has a secure gaming experience, we all know what happened to PSN which is free.

Compared to ?0 for Playstation network which offers the same functionality, it is. And paying for Xbox Live certainly doesn't stop accounts getting regularly hacked either.

Regardless, having to pay for Xbox live gold for the apps like YouTube and so on is flat-out ridiculous. That's just denying users who don't want Gold functionality out of penny-pinching pettiness.

As for your argument that the xbox is better than the PS2 because some PS2s had disc read errors, I can assume you think that the PS3 is considerably better than the Xbox 360 then, given the 360 has been plagued by technical shortcomings? And slight advantages in graphics, speed and power count for very little when the experience is close enough to be negligible (and again, the PS3 is more powerful than the 360, so will you be singing the praises of the PS3 here for the current gen?). And as the machine that's the No. 1 selling console of this generation by a country mile has shown, it can count for nothing if the user experience is something new and fun that people want.

Despite all of the above, I still think MS have put in a credible performance console-wise. But they could still do better - and a start would be matching the free online services their competitors offer and making sure their next console is tested and designed properly so it doesn't have to go through three redesigns before you get a model that doesn't regularly overheat and permanently break, take up half a room because it's so big, and also not be so loud when running that on quieter games you literally cannot hear the music!

 

[eric12341]

Compared to ?0 for Playstation network which offers the same functionality, it is. And paying for Xbox Live certainly doesn't stop accounts getting regularly hacked either.

Regardless, having to pay for Xbox live gold for the apps like YouTube and so on is flat-out ridiculous. That's just denying users who don't want Gold functionality out of penny-pinching pettiness.

As for your argument that the xbox is better than the PS2 because some PS2s had disc read errors, I can assume you think that the PS3 is considerably better than the Xbox 360 then, given the 360 has been plagued by technical shortcomings? And slight advantages in graphics, speed and power count for very little when the experience is close enough to be negligible (and again, the PS3 is more powerful than the 360, so will you be singing the praises of the PS3 here for the current gen?). And as the machine that's the No. 1 selling console of this generation by a country mile has shown, it can count for nothing if the user experience is something new and fun that people want.

Despite all of the above, I still think MS have put in a credible performance console-wise. But they could still do better - and a start would be matching the free online services their competitors offer and making sure their next console is tested and designed properly so it doesn't have to go through three redesigns before you get a model that doesn't regularly overheat and permanently break, take up half a room because it's so big, and also not be so loud when running that on quieter games you literally cannot hear the music!

the graphics on 360 are better than they are on PS3, What are you smoking? There's also a flaw in the PS3 because it uses the exact same connector as the PS1 which breaks easily (one in my bros already broke) which means that if you don't have an HDTV you can't play unless you get it replaced. There's a reason why Xbox is no.1 HELLOOOOO!!!!

 

[Fleon]

better graphics,faster processor,better hardware that doesn't disc read error out every year.

Agreed. What's your metric for faster processor? (If you say clock speed, you'll be laughed out of the forum) Better hardware? Funny, my Xbox CDROM was the first thing to go.

 

[Pronk]

1. The graphics on the 360 and PS3 are negligibly different. Some games are better on one system than the other, and some in different ways (sharper textures vs. colour depth etc.). To say one is consistently and considerably better than the other is simply bunkum.
2. By "Xbox is no. 1", I assume you mean "xbox is in third place behind the Wii and PS3 globally"? Because it is:

Console wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Xbox is ahead of the PS3 in the US only. It needs to make up 3 million sales to catch the PS3 globally and a mere 25 million to catch the Wii. And thats assuming that no further PS3s and Wiis are sold.

And I'd also suggest if you don't have an HDTV there's not much point having a PS3 *or* 360, as you'll not exactly be getting the benefit!

 

[lavalleema]

The fee isn't bad, you're only paying it once a year. Plus there's always cards to make it cheaper. They do this to ensure that everyone has a secure gaming experience, we all know what happened to PSN which is free.

Not trying to be a jerk, but I find I'm in disagreement on a couple of points.

"The Fee isn't bad" - Hmm. Slippery slope. On the one hand I agree, it isn't outrageous, and if you want to use the service then this is the price of admission. *However*, as much money as it costs for the system, the accessories and the games, it bothers me that I have to pay yet another fee to access the online aspect of the games I own.

And honestly, I wouldn't be as bothered if it was just a cost to "play online". But I have to pay this price to access other things like Netflix. My $50 DVD player lets me access Netflix for free... so the only reason I can fathom Microsoft making me pay their premium online fee is because it's just one more way to coerce users into being "whales".

"Cards to make it cheaper" - I've not seen a card that makes it cheaper, but maybe I will look into this. Last time I checked, it was the same price. Thanks for the tip, I will check this out.

"We all know what happened to PSN, which is free" - I highly doubt a paid service vs a free service has any bearing on the security policies and vulnerabilities of a system. This sounds like conjecture to me. I understand what you're trying to say, I think, but seriously I can't reconcile these two ideals. PSN was hacked maliciously by people who specifically set out to wage digital war on Sony. They could have easily made Microsoft their target if they wanted, and the fact that you pay for XBox live would have had no bearing on the success of their attack. Cyber security is cyber security.

 

[eric12341]

Agreed. What's your metric for faster processor? (If you say clock speed, you'll be laughed out of the forum) Better hardware? Funny, my Xbox CDROM was the first thing to go.

Well not only was the clock speed faster but the ram speed was faster, the polygon rendering was faster and games simply loaded faster. My original Xbox is still going.

1. The graphics on the 360 and PS3 are negligibly different. Some games are better on one system than the other, and some in different ways (sharper textures vs. colour depth etc.). To say one is consistently and considerably better than the other is simply bunkum.
2. By "Xbox is no. 1", I assume you mean "xbox is in third place behind the Wii and PS3 globally"? Because it is:

Console wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Xbox is ahead of the PS3 in the US only. It needs to make up 3 million sales to catch the PS3 globally and a mere 25 million to catch the Wii. And thats assuming that no further PS3s and Wiis are sold.

And I'd also suggest if you don't have an HDTV there's not much point having a PS3 *or* 360, as you'll not exactly be getting the benefit!

you know Wikipedia isn't that much of a reliable source ?no? I do have an HDTV in my living room and use my 360 with it. That's another thing the PS3 when my bro hooks it up doesn't automatically put the games in HD whereas my 360 does. Not to mention it also does not upconvert DVDs like the 360 does.

 

[Silverdogz]

I own an original 360 elite model which I got when it was first released. It has never given me an RROD *knock on wood*. I agree with the fact that the PS3 has a free service but I mistrust it because I was one of the ones who got *data mined*. Even when Sony reimbursed me I still prefer Xbox LIVE over PSN but I do enjoy the PS3 for its built in WI-FI where was that in the first 360 Microsoft hmmm? I happen to own both so I do have an insight. Both are non *slim*. But honestly its just easier to buy both and enjoy them.

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

 

[Exomondo]

I own an original 360 elite model which I got when it was first released. It has never given me an RROD *knock on wood*.

I have one of those too (and my Slim) which has proved to be a trusty device, i grabbed it when the store offered it to me for $50 when i returned my RROD Pro console, never had a problem since.

I do enjoy the PS3 for its built in WI-FI where was that in the first 360 Microsoft hmmm?

Yeah there is that, but it only has 802.11g. It annoyed me that i had to buy the WiFi adapter for the XBox but the XBox Slim has 802.11n built in and it's significantly better for any LAN activity.

But honestly its just easier to buy both and enjoy them.

Amen to that! Brand Vs Brand is stupid, you'll never get one which is better than the other in every measurable way, it's always going to have significant subjective elements and those get amplified when one makes a purchasing decision one way or the other.

I'm not overly concerned about <$5 per month for XBL, IMHO it's more polished than PSN. The PSN chat stuff has been resolved, Playstation Home is a bit...odd, and the profile stuff isn't brilliant, there's not as much of a 'community' feel, but again that's subjective and not for everyone.

 

[Pronk]

you know Wikipedia isn't that much of a reliable source ?no? I do have an HDTV in my living room and use my 360 with it. That's another thing the PS3 when my bro hooks it up doesn't automatically put the games in HD whereas my 360 does. Not to mention it also does not upconvert DVDs like the 360 does.

Wikipedia is a perfectly reliable source. Regardless, the figures are not gathered by Wikipedia and you haven't provided any alternative sources other than saying "Xbox is no. 1". Which it isn't.

And the PS3 does upscale DVDs. And I have no idea what you mean by it not automatically putting games in HD.

Please don't let fanboyism make you incapable of viewing valid criticisms and facts without freaking out. It's tedious in the extreme.

 

[eric12341]

Wikipedia is a perfectly reliable source. Regardless, the figures are not gathered by Wikipedia and you haven't provided any alternative sources other than saying "Xbox is no. 1". Which it isn't.

And the PS3 does upscale DVDs. And I have no idea what you mean by it not automatically putting games in HD.

Please don't let fanboyism make you incapable of viewing valid criticisms and facts without freaking out. It's tedious in the extreme.

We here in America don't really trust Wikipedia, plus those figures are at least 2 years old so you can't go based off that. All the game blogs I visit (through the game news now app) have had articles that now put the Xbox 360 ahead. The PS3 does not upconvert DVDs, when my bro put in the back to the future DVD in his PS3 we had to use the zoom levels in order to stretch the image to fit the screen, this isn't true HD. When I put the SAME DVD into my 360 it was in true HD and did not require any zoom settings. The 360 is better aware of the inputs that are used so if I were to play on my bedroom tv which is SD only the 360 will automatically use the appropriate settings, when I move it to my living room tv the 360 will automatically set the display to 1080p, whereas my bros ps3 will have it in 480p SD unless we go through the menus to change it otherwise. Can't believe there are gaystation fans here on WPCentral!

 

[lavalleema]

Can't believe there are gaystation fans here on WPCentral!

Bahahaha that made me laugh like a dog!

I actually have PS3, a second hand 360 (like I said I won't give Microsoft a +1 this gen because the original design was so shoddy) and a Wii and to be honest, the one I love most... the Wii.

The games that I own on Wii are just... well done. There are tons of crap games on each platform but the first party software for Wii is just a lot of fun. That an I'm a Zelda freak, so there you have it.

Second favorite console for games: 360. Don't know why, just is.

But for "Media" ... PS3 by far. Microsoft missed the boat on that one, regardless of the HDDVD vs BlueRay war. I like the PS3 netflix app far better than any other's I have tried, and it's a very competent movie player in its own right. Plus, the remote is bluetooth, so it doesn't matter if you have line of sight.

So they each have their uses on my shelf.

BTW... Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 in HD coming this summer to the PC... so PC FTW!!! haha

 

[selfcreation]

Bahahaha that made me laugh like a dog!

I actually have PS3, a second hand 360 (like I said I won't give Microsoft a +1 this gen because the original design was so shoddy) and a Wii and to be honest, the one I love most... the Wii.

The games that I own on Wii are just... well done. There are tons of crap games on each platform but the first party software for Wii is just a lot of fun. That an I'm a Zelda freak, so there you have it.

Second favorite console for games: 360. Don't know why, just is.

But for "Media" ... PS3 by far. Microsoft missed the boat on that one, regardless of the HDDVD vs BlueRay war. I like the PS3 netflix app far better than any other's I have tried, and it's a very competent movie player in its own right. Plus, the remote is bluetooth, so it doesn't matter if you have line of sight.

So they each have their uses on my shelf.

BTW... Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 in HD coming this summer to the PC... so PC FTW!!! haha

Xbox remote are WIFI witch is better then BT. , I control my Xbox(witch is in my living room ) from my bedroom ...

what you mean MS missed the boat on the Media? media system on Xbox is WAy better then PS3. does PS3 even have a media player? lol aside from a blue-ray/CD player?

I dont consider that a *media center* Xbox connect to my PC for all my movies/music, cant dot hat with a PS3.

not to mention what WP8+W8+Xbox will bring

Sony gona need to make a deal with apple or Google if they want a chance to compete .. oh wait they did with Android and it FAILED! HARD! lol

 

[Pronk]

Can't believe there are gaystation fans here on WPCentral!

*sigh*

This is a forum about phones, not consoles, so why would the fact it's WP Central have any bearing on things? Oh, and the figures are from December 2011 (wii), November 2011 (PS3) and January 2012 (xbox). You'll note that neither 2012 or 2011 are "at least 2 years ago" - please be aware a year is one of those long things between Christmases. I think you're thinking of months, which are much shorter.

And as stated, I own an xbox 360 and a PS3. And I owned a PS2 and an original xbox. And a PS1 and a Dreamcast. And a Super Nintendo and a Megadrive. And an original NES and a Master System. And a whole host of other stuff you've probably never heard of, so I'm hardly what you could consider biased to any one platform and never have been - you clearly are, so I'd suggest if anyone or anything is an unreliable source, it's you.

Oh,and the PS3 upscales DVDs perfectly well (Upscale DVD output?-?PlayStation 3, PS3 official movies guide). If your brother's one does not, he hasn't got it set up correctly. Your 360 does not upscale to "true HD" either because upscaling is *not* "true HD" - you can't "make" the missing detail. When it upscales the 360 is doing the exact same thing as the PS3 does. Only not as well, because if you look at a lot of proper AV forums it's usually considered that the PS3 does a marginally better job at upscaling. And my 360 had trouble detecting my TV's resolution via the RGB cable so I had to set it up manually - so there you go. That's one anecdote each, so they cancel out as well.

So in summary (a) learn to read - perhaps your mistrust of Wikipedia comes from the fact you don't look at it properly, (b) don't use terminology if you don't understand it properly, because it just makes you look foolish, and (c) gaystation? REALLY??? Grow up, sunshine. Oh, and the Sega fans from 1994 called - they'd like their insult back.

 

[selfcreation]

your XBOX 360 would upscale better if you used HDMI instead of RGB , RBG is 720p HDMI is 1080p compatible.

and im sure your comparing HDMI on PS3 to RBG on Xbox, its not a fair fight!!!

Here is a NICE VID to compare PS3 VS Xbox VS PC ( my fav game )

PS. F1 SEASON STARTS TONIGHT BOYS!!!! AUSTRALIA GP!!!! WOOOT!!!

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XuYsbtMAQ8[/YT]

XBOX 360 WIn in this one i think.

but honestly unless you have 2 exact TVS with 2 Xbox using different wires(hdmi VS RBG) at the SAME time , you wont ever notice the diffrents.

if you buy a 720p tv and a 1080p TV sure they look different in store , cone you go home you can't notice the differents cause its sooo small. ( unless you take the time to compare them side by side..

so in the end it really make no different. specially if your getting old and your eye sigh is starting to FADE,

I use to sale high end TV's ( pioneer elites ) in 720P and 1080P and we use to show clients the differents ( cause its like 3000$ different ) and most of the time the client said screw the 1080P it looks the same unless you compare it side by side with a static Picture.

when you watch high action movements on TV you cant tell the diffrents. ( like sports or video games)

 

[eric12341]

*sigh*

This is a forum about phones, not consoles, so why would the fact it's WP Central have any bearing on things? Oh, and the figures are from December 2011 (wii), November 2011 (PS3) and January 2012 (xbox). You'll note that neither 2012 or 2011 are "at least 2 years ago" - please be aware a year is one of those long things between Christmases. I think you're thinking of months, which are much shorter.

And as stated, I own an xbox 360 and a PS3. And I owned a PS2 and an original xbox. And a PS1 and a Dreamcast. And a Super Nintendo and a Megadrive. And an original NES and a Master System. And a whole host of other stuff you've probably never heard of, so I'm hardly what you could consider biased to any one platform and never have been - you clearly are, so I'd suggest if anyone or anything is an unreliable source, it's you.

Oh,and the PS3 upscales DVDs perfectly well (Upscale DVD output*-*PlayStation 3, PS3 official movies guide). If your brother's one does not, he hasn't got it set up correctly. Your 360 does not upscale to "true HD" either because upscaling is *not* "true HD" - you can't "make" the missing detail. When it upscales the 360 is doing the exact same thing as the PS3 does. Only not as well, because if you look at a lot of proper AV forums it's usually considered that the PS3 does a marginally better job at upscaling. And my 360 had trouble detecting my TV's resolution via the RGB cable so I had to set it up manually - so there you go. That's one anecdote each, so they cancel out as well.

So in summary (a) learn to read - perhaps your mistrust of Wikipedia comes from the fact you don't look at it properly, (b) don't use terminology if you don't understand it properly, because it just makes you look foolish, and (c) gaystation? REALLY??? Grow up, sunshine. Oh, and the Sega fans from 1994 called - they'd like their insult back.

Oh my bad,I was looking at the US results for those dates. Reason why Wii and PS3 would outsell the 360 outside the US is because countries like Japan tend to be loyal to their own brands (Nintendo and Sony), if you look at the Europe sales you can clearly see that the 360 is making gains on the PS3. I should learn to read? I can read 2 languages (English and Spanish) which is better reading skills than you more than likely. I've also owned an NES,SNES,genesis,PS,Dreamcast (after declared EOL),N64, and Xbox. I've also heard of those other systems so we're even there. Who uses RGB, that's a nonstandard method (at least in the US it is) so of course it wouldn't scale properly.

your XBOX 360 would upscale better if you used HDMI instead of RGB , RBG is 720p HDMI is 1080p compatible.

and im sure your comparing HDMI on PS3 to RBG on Xbox, its not a fair fight!!!

Here is a NICE VID to compare PS3 VS Xbox VS PC ( my fav game )

PS. F1 SEASON STARTS TONIGHT BOYS!!!! AUSTRALIA GP!!!! WOOOT!!!

Click to view quoted video

but honestly unless you have 2 exact TVS with 2 Xbox using different wires(hdmi VS RBG) at the SAME time , you wont ever notice the diffrents.

if you buy a 720p tv and a 1080p TV sure they look different in store , cone you go home you can't notice the differents cause its sooo small. ( unless you take the time to compare them side by side..

so in the end it really make no different. specially if your getting old and your eye sigh is starting to FADE,

I use to sale high end TV's ( pioneer elites ) in 720P and 1080P and we use to show clients the differents ( cause its like 3000$ different ) and most of the time the client said screw the 1080P it looks the same unless you compare it side by side with a static Picture.

when you watch high action movements on TV you cant tell the diffrents. ( like sports or video games)

forgot to mention that HDMI is digital and also carries an uncompressed audio signal while RGB/VGA is analog and only carries video.

 

[selfcreation]

Asia Also like SONY better cause PS make more RPG/MMORPG style games and Asian TRIP on does games. lol

 

[Pronk]

My *personal* xbox 360 may well upscale better if I used HDMI rather than RGB/VGA, but I'm out of HDMI ports on my TV with the satellite box and the PS3 in the two I have. And as I don't use the 360 that much because it's too loud and I know it has a limited lifespan before it inevitably RRODs (it being my third one and replaced before they brought out the slim), it gets relegated to VGA. It's probably a marginally less good picture than HDMI, but not worth rearranging all the cables at the back of the TV for.

However, I was basing it on opinions I've read on audiovisual forums and review sites - not my personal experience. Personally, even if the xbox 360 was hands down better at upscaling I'd still not use it for DVD because it's too damn loud. That said, the upscaling thing is probably so close as to be a matter of opinion anyway.

And yes, eric12341, you should learn to read in the sense of actually look at what people point you towards as it took you three posts to go away and check the references I gave to actually take in the information in them correctly, all the while having a go at me in the meantime. But I note you at least finally concede the xbox is indeed in third place globally (albeit in a roundabout way - because "catching up" is of course another way of saying "still behind"), so that's something. Though the stuff about various markets preferring their own brands is somewhat disproven by the Wii also being ahead of the 360 in the US by almost 2 to 1.

Anyway, now we're all on the same page perhaps we can get over the fanboyism and move on.

 

[Fleon]

But I note you at least finally concede the xbox is indeed in third place globally (albeit in a roundabout way - because "catching up" is of course another way of saying "still behind"), so that's something. Though the stuff about various markets preferring their own brands is somewhat disproven by the Wii also being ahead of the 360 in the US by almost 2 to 1.

Anyway, now we're all on the same page perhaps we can get over the fanboyism and move on.

Oh?

Video Game Charts, Game Sales, Top Sellers, Game Data - VGChartz

 

[Fleon]

Well not only was the clock speed faster but the ram speed was faster, the polygon rendering was faster and games simply loaded faster. My original Xbox is still going.

Mine is not. My PS2 is.

And- here you go for some fun:
Platform Comparison - PS2 Vs Xbox: Contrasting the Two

If you want to actually learn something, read through the whole thing.

 

[Pronk]

Oh?

Video Game Charts, Game Sales, Top Sellers, Game Data - VGChartz

Oh what? That's a weekly software sales chart. That's nothing whatsoever to do with existing hardware sales.