Not that WP7 needs great hardware, but why do you guys think MS seems to be forcing such low end specs on the hardware providers by making the OS not support higher end specs?
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I understand what you mean concerning the battery war in phones. I will say that as I'm a gamer, there is enough difference in the AMD vs i5 2500k. Especially when looking at the incredible overclocking capabilities of the 2500k. But I do get that you don't have to worry about battery life with these.Microsoft has said that before they shift over to dual core and higher devices they want to solve some of the battery issues that stem from heavy hitting hardware, same with high resolution.
The whole "spec wars" are silly anyway, sort of like processors now days. The AMD Phenom II X4 980 is looked at as inferior "old tech" and the i5 2500K and i7 2600K are looked on as the premier in technology. The truth is the Phenom II is older and slower, yes, but we're talking 30 seconds in extremely complex task completion, for the average user: web browsing, emailing, paper writing, even gaming to some extent, the difference isnt even that drastic. Maybe 10-20 frames per second in highly CPU dependent games, 4 or less in others.
My point is that today's "low-tech" is still highly competitive and advanced, especially with WP7 because of the hardware acceleration behind it. MOAR CORES isn't always the solution to a better user experience and intelligent companies are starting to realize this. What has the biggest concern become? Battery life. Frankly, even when Windows Phone gets dual core phones, the next big thing will probably be quad core devices, but you are going to see that battery life becomes an even larger issue than it is now.
Though it will certainly steer some away from Windows Phone, the average user will probably never know the difference because as I said the hurdles are overcome in different ways with MSFT.
I agree with what you're saying. I just hope that they don't always do this. The reason being is due to the fact that they are trying to tout this as a gaming OS because of Xbox live. Because of this, I'm truly hoping that they don't always hold back on new hardware. Just my opinion though. I will also say that because Android is such a taxing OS, gaming is better on a single core iOS phone (even with an inferior GPU) than a duel core Android phone. I am pretty sure it is the same with Windows Phone.I wasn't trying to detract from the fact that the differences are there in performance, I meant that more often than not the difference is overblown. The i5 2500K is superior because it is, but it isn't like the Phenom II is worthless, it is still a power piece of hardware and it is the same with phones.
The processor in the Nokia isn't as good, plain and simple, but the limitations that people associate with slower hardware are completely overblown. To wit, the number of people that say WP7 is fluid and fast, faster than Android in many cases and those Android phones all have the "fast" hardware.
The difference comes in software and other modifications in performance. For instance, a computer with an i5 2500k paired with a GTX 275 is simply not going to run games as well as a computer with a Phenom II X4 980 paired with the GTX 680.
Your question was more "Why are they there?" And I think what my answer has turned into is battery life and lack of necessity. Do you need a turbo charged V12 as a daily driver? Probably not.
I completely agree! One reason I will NEVER go back to Android (I have an iPhone 4) is due to there fragmentation. It makes there phones clunky and simply annoying. People talk about how much customization they have, which is awesome, but it isn't worth losing the speed and reliability. I definitely hope WP never starts having fragmentation. They should continue to stick more with what iOS does by forcing OEM's to have certain specs and make SURE they don't get to play around with the OS (IE skins).Yeah, I agree, and for techies that want the latest and greatest I totally understand that you feel the downgrade. I think Microsoft will come through in time, I personally hope that Win8 tablets are going to pack Tegra 3 processors for ARM and that we might see them in phones! It would be awesome. The Zune HD used a Tegra processor, so let's hope there is some good blood between nVidia and Microsoft despite that fact that all Windows Phones have been Qualcomm.
Edit: also interesting to note that they have tiered devices already with the introduction of the 610 and Tango devices. Maybe with Apollo they will have a mid-range tier that uses base gen 2 specs (Qualcomm dual-core) and advanced gen 2 specs (Tegra dual or quad core). Though that kind of fragmentation can be dangerous, as we have seen with Android.
...why do you guys think MS seems to be forcing such low end specs on the hardware providers by making the OS not support higher end specs?
It's due to limitations in the current kernel, which is a duct-taped mess with roots in several different versions of the old Windows Mobile kernel. The new kernel in WP8 will be based on the Win8 kernel. Some limitations, like the Snapdragon-only support, were probably due to not wanting to spend any more time on that old system than they had to given that it was all going to be junked anyway. The new WP8 will be able to take advantage of the much larger effort being spent getting Win8 ready for the ARM tablets, including support for a much larger array of SoC's, as well as potentially even the X86 SOCs like the Intel Medfield, which is faster than the ARM SoC's with comparable power consumption. Because it's derived from Windows NT it should be essentially free of any limits on CPU count, memory, graphics resolution, etc. It should also have a much faster .NET runtime because of the big budgets being spent on the ARM JIT compiler.
Not that WP7 needs great hardware, but why do you guys think MS seems to be forcing such low end specs on the hardware providers by making the OS not support higher end specs?
So, M, just curious here, if the only reason we see Qualcomm processors now is the kernel, do you think we will see a great variety of processors with the Win8 kernel in our phones?
Part of the reason WP7 is so awesome is because you know that any adjustments they make are coming to everyone and the performance decreases or increases are evenly distributed. Do you think Microsoft has seen the advantage of this and will continue to restrict hardware?
So you're saying that the WP7's are coded from their old Windows mobile? EWW! lol. If that's the case, I truly hope WP8 will still use the awesome tile UI. I'm sure it will because of the increasing popularity. What are your thoughts in the way hardware makers wanting more control over the OS? Do you really believe Microsoft will let them put skins on or anything? I'm pretty scared about the possible fragmentation that's already plaguing Android will be the future of WP. If so, I'm not switching from my iPhone.
So you're saying that the WP7's are coded from their old Windows mobile? EWW!
So, M, just curious here, if the only reason we see Qualcomm processors now is the kernel, do you think we will see a great variety of processors with the Win8 kernel in our phones? ... Do you think Microsoft has seen the advantage of this and will continue to restrict hardware?
I am 99% sure the tile system is here to stay, Windows 8 uses the Metro UI as well, it would be silly to see it absent from Windows Phone 8...I hope they continue the iOS route and allow OEMs to continue making custom apps, but prevent them from interfering too much.
So what direction do you think they will take to avoid fragmentation? Make the OS so resource efficient that the processor speed doesn't matter so long as it is on par with X processor?
So what direction do you think they will take to avoid fragmentation? Make the OS so resource efficient that the processor speed doesn't matter so long as it is on par with X processor?
Here consider placing smartphones into weight classes similar to MMA or boxing
You have
Lightweight at 0$
Welterweight at 49$
Middleweight at 99$
Light Heavyweight at 149$
Heavyweight at 199$
Those are subsidized prices - add $350 or so for the unsubsidized price. A huge chunk of Android's numbers are coming from an even lower market than you're considering, we're talking $100 or less *unsubsidized*. Nokia is going after that market with Symbian and Maemo because Tango just can't reach down that far. Android can reach down that far. Old versions of Android like Donut and Eclair, but Android nonetheless. And there are hundreds of millions of those Android devices being sold at that level.