Current devices WILL NOT get Apollo.

[mkr10001]

Don't listen to that site......trolls...the lot of them

 

[canesfan625]

XDA-dev will that's for sure.

only if they can make drivers appear

 

[eric12341]

How about we just not get all upset over things that Anti-WP sites say

 

[Mr_pither]

come one everybody, just give it a little thought.

some things about apollo just can't be backwards compatible due the superior hardware that newer devices will have: higher res screens, faster processors, better (pureview please!) cameras, etc, etc.

iOS tried doing this in an earlier upgrade and caused huge bad feelings among their users with older phones that were crippled trying to run features the older hardware was inadequate for. but Apple reacted and came out with an update that was smarter that tailored itself to the hardware it was being installed on. having seen this example, my hope is that Microsoft will follow this same path: Apollo features that can handle weaker hardware will make it onto older phones, those that can't won't so we don't go thru the same pain seen in that earlier iOS upgrade fiasco.

Way too soon to see all this gnashing of teeth over something that is half a year away or more...

 

[ajmstilt]

My guess, is MS doesn't yet know what devices will be upgradable and which won't. They haven't finalized wp8 so can't say one way or the other.

My Fear is they'll let the carriers decide.... *shudders*

 

[mkr10001]

Obviously we won't get the same version that is designed for the new hardware. That's a given. But I see no reason we can't be upgraded with new features, possibly an improved interface and whatever else is new that doesn't require a higher resolution and multi core

 

[mparker]

But I see no reason we can't be upgraded with new features, possibly an improved interface and whatever else is new that doesn't require a higher resolution and multi core

Really? I can think of a whole bunch of them, without even trying hard.

A) The new kernel needs a new bootloader that can't be retrofitted to the old devices.
B) The new kernel needs new drivers that the manufacturers won't write for the old devices.
C) The new kernel needs some CPU features that aren't present on the old devices.
D) The new kernel needs some GPU features that aren't present on the old devices.
E) The new kernel needs more memory than the old old devices have.
F) The carriers have already told Microsoft that they won't be pushing out upgrades to old devices.
G) The manufacturers have already told Microsoft that they won't be working on upgrades to the old devices.
H) Microsoft doesn't have any spare resources to spend on backwards compatibility - they're all making Apollo as awesome as possible, or working on Win 8 RT, etc.

Where it makes sense for Microsoft to enhance WP7 is exactly where we've seen them spending their effort this last year - on scaling it down for the lower end of the market where WP8 can't go, in order to take on Android and help Nokia shed their legacy Symbian overhead.

 

[mkr10001]

Really? I can think of a whole bunch of them, without even trying hard.

A) The new kernel needs a new bootloader that can't be retrofitted to the old devices.
B) The new kernel needs new drivers that the manufacturers won't write for the old devices.
C) The new kernel needs some CPU features that aren't present on the old devices.
D) The new kernel needs some GPU features that aren't present on the old devices.
E) The new kernel needs more memory than the old old devices have.
F) The carriers have already told Microsoft that they won't be pushing out upgrades to old devices.
G) The manufacturers have already told Microsoft that they won't be working on upgrades to the old devices.
H) Microsoft doesn't have any spare resources to spend on backwards compatibility - they're all making Apollo as awesome as possible, or working on Win 8 RT, etc.

Where it makes sense for Microsoft to enhance WP7 is exactly where we've seen them spending their effort this last year - on scaling it down for the lower end of the market where WP8 can't go, in order to take on Android and help Nokia shed their legacy Symbian overhead.

The majority of the new features WILL be able to be implemented on the current hardware. I'm not saying all in the same way. That's why I said

"But I see no reason we can't be upgraded with new features, possibly an improved interface and whatever else is new that doesn't require a higher resolution and multi core"

Sorry I didn't mention the GPU and bootloader and new drivers and more memory but it was ****ing implied that we should get new features that the phones are capable of running. moron

 

[mparker]

Sorry I didn't mention the GPU and bootloader and new drivers and more memory but it was ****ing implied that we should get new features that the phones are capable of running. moron

Are you seriously suggesting that Microsoft will somehow wave their magic wand and make Win8 work on the current devices without bootloaders and device drivers? Or they will write Apollo for the Windows 8 kernel then write it again for the Win CE kernel? Seriously?

If the Win8 kernel can't *easily* be backported to the current devices, and the current WinCE device drivers can't *easily* be made to work with the Win8 kernel, then the current devices are unlikely to see anything more than a succession of Tangos. Partly because that time could be more productively spent improving Apollo, partly because the more difficult it is the less likely it is to have manufacturer and carrier support, and partly because the greater the risk of impacting reliability and performance.

Or maybe you're suggesting that Microsoft will make Tango2 (or 3 or whatever) look and feel more like Apollo, with some of the new features. You may well be right there, but it is specious to claim that this counts as WP7 devices "getting Apollo".

 

[mkr10001]

Are you seriously suggesting that Microsoft will somehow wave their magic wand and make Win8 work on the current devices without bootloaders and device drivers? Or they will write Apollo for the Windows 8 kernel then write it again for the Win CE kernel? Seriously?

If the Win8 kernel can't *easily* be backported to the current devices, and the current WinCE device drivers can't *easily* be made to work with the Win8 kernel, then the current devices are unlikely to see anything more than a succession of Tangos. Partly because that time could be more productively spent improving Apollo, partly because the more difficult it is the less likely it is to have manufacturer and carrier support, and partly because the greater the risk of impacting reliability and performance.

I never said we will get apollo ( I don't think, if i did , aplogies). But they aren't going to just stop updating mango phones. They WILL give us some kind of update that will update the phones. Not saying rewrite the whole OS for older phones but whatever new features that apollo has, e.g. skype integrated into the people hub....no reason for us not to get that. Maybe an updated people hub? Better messaging app? Maybe different coloured live tiles. no reason to not get anything like that.

Do you REALLY think after Nokia and Microsoft have just gotten into bed together that nokia would let Microsoft just completely forget about the lumia 800, 900 and 710 a year later?!

 

[mparker]

It sounds like we're actually in agreement here. I think that WP7 will continue on as an independent product - we've seen the future of WP7 and that future is called Tango, and pushing downmarket to take on the Android budget phones and eventually replace Symbian. It will get new and exciting features, but it will have only a historical relationship with the phone OS that stands shoulder-to-shoulder with Microsoft's tablets, desktops, and servers.

 

[canesfan625]

I never said we will get apollo ( I don't think, if i did , aplogies). But they aren't going to just stop updating mango phones. They WILL give us some kind of update that will apologise the phones. Not saying rewrite the whole OS for older phones but whatever new features that apollo has, e.g. skype integrated into the people hub....no reason for us not to get that. Maybe an updated people hub? Better messaging app? Maybe different coloured live tiles. no reason to not get anything like that.

Do you REALLY think after Nokia and Microsoft have just gotten into bed together that nokia would let Microsoft just completely forget about the lumia 800, 900 and 710 a year later?!

Microsoft can write the drivers themselves. They don't need the OEMs if they really want to get Apollo to current devices.

 

[1jaxstate1]

But you would praise a site that said all phones WILL be getting the update, without a direct quote from MS.

Im starting to write down a list of all people starting rumors . then post them on my the Do not trust list for the future.

NO comfirmation was given about the actuall UPDATE!


and who ever wrote that article is saying WP will NOT get the update . YET it he article he has a quote from MS thats does NOT comfirm it..

"We have stated publicly that all apps in our Marketplace today will run on the next version of Windows Phone. Beyond that, we have nothing to share about future releases."

in my world :* we have nothing to share * does not mean it WONT get updates. it means they dont know or wont share with the world to prevent lost sales.


MS CLEARLY DOES NOT comfirm it!!!!

this is still 100% rumor in my book , nothing has changed from the rumor we been hearing over the last 4 months.

 

[mparker]

Microsoft can write the drivers themselves. They don't need the OEMs if they really want to get Apollo to current devices.

Only if they have the necessary information and some help from the manufacturers. Samsung and HTC could presumably send this information to Microsoft and provide any support Microsoft needs, but why would they bother? To help people avoid buying their new handsets to run Apollo?

 

[canesfan625]

Only if they have the necessary information and some help from the manufacturers. Samsung and HTC could presumably send this information to Microsoft and provide any support Microsoft needs, but why would they bother? To help people avoid buying their new handsets to run Apollo?

Then why bother releasing any updates? Imagine all the people they could have made buy mango devices.

 

[AzD]

Are you seriously suggesting that Microsoft will somehow wave their magic wand and make Win8 work on the current devices without bootloaders and device drivers? Or they will write Apollo for the Windows 8 kernel then write it again for the Win CE kernel? Seriously?

Pardon my ignorance on this subject, but aren't they already kind of doing that vis a vis the Windows 8 on ARM part of their Win 8 development? I am assuming much of the Windows 8 work (at least the Windows 8 on ARM part) is applicable to WP 8. However I am admittedly ignorant of the technical details and may be conflating two entirely difference things - Win 8 and WP 8.

 

[mparker]

Then why bother releasing any updates? Imagine all the people they could have made buy mango devices.

Mango didn't require a new bootloader and completely new device drivers. There's a *big* difference in the amount of work involved.

 

[canesfan625]

Mango didn't require a new bootloader and completely new device drivers. There's a *big* difference in the amount of work involved.

Mango came with drivers/bootloader/and radio updates.. Coulda just claimed it wasn't worth it or whatever excuse they choose.

 

[mparker]

Mango came with drivers/bootloader/and radio updates.. Coulda just claimed it wasn't worth it or whatever excuse they choose.

There's a big difference between an updated bootloader and drivers and a completely new bootloader and drivers.

There's even the possibility that the WP8 version of the drivers may not even fit in the available flash ROM; the driver system is completely different, it's possible that WP8 drivers for the same hardware may be 2x or more larger due to the different architecture and new functionality requirements.

 

[canesfan625]

There's a big difference between an updated bootloader and drivers and a completely new bootloader and drivers.

There's even the possibility that the WP8 version of the drivers may not even fit in the available flash ROM; the driver system is completely different, it's possible that WP8 drivers for the same hardware may be 2x or more larger due to the different architecture and new functionality requirements.

Hard to say what was what. They probably had to write at least some new drivers for the Motion API/Compass support. I'm not aware of a source that states what was updated and what was written.