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  1. MattLFC's Avatar
    The video - BBC News - Nokia makes £760m loss as it loses smartphone war (might not be available to non-UK visitors).

    Now as UK residents are well-aware, the BBC (generally known and praised for its impartiality) has become the single biggest Apple marketing machine within the UK over recent years, with its pro-Apple, "anything without an Apple badge sucks" stance. And I've just seen a video with the BBC once again slating an Apple competitor, this time Nokia and its new Lumia handset range.

    In the video, it generally seems to state (with regards the Lumia range)...

    - Nokia Lumia sales are flat/non-existent.
    - The public don't know or want Lumia's.
    - In the US the Lumia's marketshare is tiny.
    - Mobile operators in the UK and US don't care for, or promote Nokia Lumia devices.
    - Samsung have an "Android device" (nobody else has one and almost suggests that Samsung own/make Android) lol.
    - Too few people are going into shops and asking to look at a Nokia smartphone.
    - Nokia Lumia's are simply "too expensive", especially in the US market.

    Whilst there is some basis of truth and background in this report, most of it is as expected, anti-Apple-competitor drivel, probably by Apple iPhone owning editors, presenters and producers (since it appears the BBC issue them to all staff).

    - Lumia sales are far from flat - either side of the Atlantic.

    - The public in the UK at least, are well-aware of the Lumia 800/Lumia range, I've never seen such a huge marketing campaign for any phone here, taking over one of our 5 main TV channels to the point where the channel got fined for "too much advertising", wpcentral reporting that practically every other page in "The Sun" newspaper, the biggest selling newspaper in the UK (Newscorp drivel) was an advert for the 800, the London event with the Lumia advert on the tower, the entire front-page of the biggest selling weekly celebrity magazine (OK! magazine) just taken over with a photo of the Lumia 800, phone shops promoting the phone on their websites, instore and in catalogs etc...

    - The US marketshare may be tiny, but the figures will only account for the limited time the 710 has been available, and the 900 sales have, from the looks of things since its launch, been through the roof.

    - Mobile operators seems to have had a bit of a scramble to get ahold of the Lumia devices, every operator in the UK has the devices and have stands for them in shops or located within their "hero" handset areas, and Phones4u (the biggest independent seller here) have managed to get an exclusive contract for the "white" 800 and 710 devices. Carphone Warehouse (for relevance to our US cousins, BestBuy own 50% of it iirc, and it is the second-biggest independent after Phones4u) never used to have a clue about Windows Phone devices, now they are actively promoting them instore, and have even started a campaign on their website to dispel the "myths" commonly associated with Windows Phone. Independents in the UK are massive retail channels for networks, probably selling as many as 50% of all contracts and paygo devices. AT&T have certainly made a song and dance about the Lumia 900... to the point whereby it is their single biggest "hero" phone iirc??

    - Not sure that the BBC can see past the Apple logo far enough to realise HTC are just as big a player as Samsung in the Android world, Samsung have a "range" of Android handsets, they also have WP handsets, and funnily enough, Google own/develop Android, not Samsung.

    - Salespeople I have spoken to in phone shops of all descriptions, independents and operators alike, have not been shocked I wanted a Lumia, or even tried to convert me to something else, like they used to in the pre-Lumia days. Indeed when I bought my 710, the salesperson there seemed to be of the opinion that the 800 is selling really well instore. A lot of older people in the UK swear by Nokia's and they don't all just want dumbphones. I've seen the phones in the "top sellers" lists many times on UK websites, and apparently the 900 is selling well in the US, with places sold-out?

    - If a Nokia 710 at 129 is too expensive, if the Lumia 800 and 710 being "free" on 18+ month contracts is too expensive, if the 900 being $99 on a 2-year airtime agreement in the US is too expensive, if the 710 being $49 with an airtime agreement in the US is too expensive... then I'd like to see the BBC's idea of cheap... the iPhone 4s doesn't even come close to Nokia's pricing for value.

    Sorry for the rant, but this attitude and pro-Apple stance by the BBC really angers me, and it's a shame so many millions people across the UK will see this scaremongering and un-informed drivel on their News reports.

    :mad:
    Last edited by MattLFC; 04-22-2012 at 01:33 PM.
    willied and vantil like this.
    04-22-2012 01:26 PM
  2. smoledman's Avatar
    I just get the feeling that Lumia 900 sales are going to be enormous. At my local AT&T wireless, the Windows Phone display is right next to the iPhone 4S display and frankly it was better because it was nearer the center.
    04-22-2012 01:51 PM
  3. vantil's Avatar
    Thanks for you post.
    "Loses smartphone war"? Wow. Prediting the future?
    It did not suprise me one bit that WP and Nokia had a little bit off slow start with the Lumia launch in Britain. They started from nothing and had all the odds against them.
    But they planned it well and from what I hear they made an impact.
    All press is good press when your market presense is so low to begin with.
    04-23-2012 03:18 AM
  4. Jrexxx's Avatar
    The only thing that I don't understand is how European carriers are complaining that nobody is going in and asking for a WP. Of course nobody is going to ask for it if they don't even know it exists! And Nokia's marketing isn't helping a lot either: here in Belgium, all Nokia adds focus on the hardware (it's different, it's beautiful, etc.) and only mention WP at the end, as if it were an after thought... I think that Nokia need Microsoft's help in Europe, especially from an advertisement point of view.
    04-23-2012 06:09 AM
  5. shlomo80's Avatar
    The video - BBC News - Nokia makes £760m loss as it loses smartphone war (might not be available to non-UK visitors).

    Now as UK residents are well-aware, the BBC (generally known and praised for its impartiality) has become the single biggest Apple marketing machine within the UK over recent years, with its pro-Apple, "anything without an Apple badge sucks" stance. And I've just seen a video with the BBC once again slating an Apple competitor, this time Nokia and its new Lumia handset range.

    In the video, it generally seems to state (with regards the Lumia range)...

    - Nokia Lumia sales are flat/non-existent.
    - The public don't know or want Lumia's.
    - In the US the Lumia's marketshare is tiny.
    - Mobile operators in the UK and US don't care for, or promote Nokia Lumia devices.
    - Samsung have an "Android device" (nobody else has one and almost suggests that Samsung own/make Android) lol.
    - Too few people are going into shops and asking to look at a Nokia smartphone.
    - Nokia Lumia's are simply "too expensive", especially in the US market.

    Whilst there is some basis of truth and background in this report, most of it is as expected, anti-Apple-competitor drivel, probably by Apple iPhone owning editors, presenters and producers (since it appears the BBC issue them to all staff).

    - Lumia sales are far from flat - either side of the Atlantic.

    - The public in the UK at least, are well-aware of the Lumia 800/Lumia range, I've never seen such a huge marketing campaign for any phone here, taking over one of our 5 main TV channels to the point where the channel got fined for "too much advertising", wpcentral reporting that practically every other page in "The Sun" newspaper, the biggest selling newspaper in the UK (Newscorp drivel) was an advert for the 800, the London event with the Lumia advert on the tower, the entire front-page of the biggest selling weekly celebrity magazine (OK! magazine) just taken over with a photo of the Lumia 800, phone shops promoting the phone on their websites, instore and in catalogs etc...

    - The US marketshare may be tiny, but the figures will only account for the limited time the 710 has been available, and the 900 sales have, from the looks of things since its launch, been through the roof.

    - Mobile operators seems to have had a bit of a scramble to get ahold of the Lumia devices, every operator in the UK has the devices and have stands for them in shops or located within their "hero" handset areas, and Phones4u (the biggest independent seller here) have managed to get an exclusive contract for the "white" 800 and 710 devices. Carphone Warehouse (for relevance to our US cousins, BestBuy own 50% of it iirc, and it is the second-biggest independent after Phones4u) never used to have a clue about Windows Phone devices, now they are actively promoting them instore, and have even started a campaign on their website to dispel the "myths" commonly associated with Windows Phone. Independents in the UK are massive retail channels for networks, probably selling as many as 50% of all contracts and paygo devices. AT&T have certainly made a song and dance about the Lumia 900... to the point whereby it is their single biggest "hero" phone iirc??

    - Not sure that the BBC can see past the Apple logo far enough to realise HTC are just as big a player as Samsung in the Android world, Samsung have a "range" of Android handsets, they also have WP handsets, and funnily enough, Google own/develop Android, not Samsung.

    - Salespeople I have spoken to in phone shops of all descriptions, independents and operators alike, have not been shocked I wanted a Lumia, or even tried to convert me to something else, like they used to in the pre-Lumia days. Indeed when I bought my 710, the salesperson there seemed to be of the opinion that the 800 is selling really well instore. A lot of older people in the UK swear by Nokia's and they don't all just want dumbphones. I've seen the phones in the "top sellers" lists many times on UK websites, and apparently the 900 is selling well in the US, with places sold-out?

    - If a Nokia 710 at 129 is too expensive, if the Lumia 800 and 710 being "free" on 18+ month contracts is too expensive, if the 900 being $99 on a 2-year airtime agreement in the US is too expensive, if the 710 being $49 with an airtime agreement in the US is too expensive... then I'd like to see the BBC's idea of cheap... the iPhone 4s doesn't even come close to Nokia's pricing for value.

    Sorry for the rant, but this attitude and pro-Apple stance by the BBC really angers me, and it's a shame so many millions people across the UK will see this scaremongering and un-informed drivel on their News reports.

    :mad:
    At least they're better than the Guardian. Their 'tech reporter' actively refuses to do anything which doesn't come on OS X - and anything non-iOS is also reviewed according to what it doesn't do compared to iOS.
    04-23-2012 08:08 AM
  6. socialcarpet's Avatar
    The only thing that I don't understand is how European carriers are complaining that nobody is going in and asking for a WP. Of course nobody is going to ask for it if they don't even know it exists! And Nokia's marketing isn't helping a lot either: here in Belgium, all Nokia adds focus on the hardware (it's different, it's beautiful, etc.) and only mention WP at the end, as if it were an after thought... I think that Nokia need Microsoft's help in Europe, especially from an advertisement point of view.
    This is true.

    They have different challenges in Europe vs. the United States.

    In Europe, Nokia is still very popular, but everyone equates Nokia with Symbian (or Meego for some) and there is a deep distrust and dislike of Microsoft.

    In the United States anyone under 30 hardly even remembers Nokia makes phones. The few people that do think of Nokia as a maker of cheap, durable and reliable feature phones, not smartphones. People have a lot more trust of Microsoft here, but most think of them as a maker of stodgy old nerd phones with Start buttons, or don't even realize Microsoft makes a phone OS.

    In either case, they have their work cut out for them. :blush:

    In Europe, Nokia needs to portray themselves as the dominant partner in their relationship with Microsoft. They need to emphasize the Nokia brand and that the Lumia's are NOKIA phones and this is the future of Nokia. They need to get as much authentic Nokia flavor in the OS itself as they can, and they need Microsoft to get any functionality that Symbian had that is missing from Windows Phone, baked in there ASAP.

    In the U.S., Nokia needs to build their image as a desirable and modern brand. Play off their Finnish heritage and position as a hip and chic alternative to iPhone. Make the iPhone look pass and ubiquitous. Image is everything here. Get Paris Hilton and some other vapid celebrities seen clutching cyan Lumia 900's with their teacup chihuahuas. They should also showcase media capabilities, especially once the tie ins with Windows 8 are complete. These are the kinds of things that matter to Americans. No one will care if it runs Windows Phone. They care about brand and they care about what the phone does and if it will impress their friends and they care about whether or not their phone can do what their friends phones do. As long as it can play the same games, it's easy to use and they think it's cool and cutting edge and desirable, they will buy.
    04-23-2012 10:51 AM
  7. squire777's Avatar
    I have always told others that the best thing to happen to Apple was the free marketing done for them by mainstream, non-tech news sources. It's just not the BBC because even here in North America every time there is some kind of tech segment on TV there is someone promoting how great some Apple device is, or how great some app is.

    The problem is that these types of reports are done by people who really have no idea what goes on in the tech world. Another company may come out with something great but they will be totally oblivious to it because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it.

    Most of them just regurgitate what they read online so if people are generally saying WP7 is no good, then they will just parrot those statements on TV.
    04-23-2012 11:21 AM
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