Beauty is as beauty does (n't)...

[scottcraft]

That's not true. There are plenty of people that find some fault with WP. I think that people are just annoyed that overall ppl aren't giving wp7 a fair shake and some credit. So of course they have to tall up their new favorite OS. I'll be the first to say WP isn't complete but for what it is now it's ok. Better fays are coming.



Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

You and London Jr are right, this is a pretty mild forum and everybody has been pretty easy on the op. It is true that most people that are happy with their device talk it up pretty good, and I don't have a problem with that at all, its the blind ****** stuff (that every forum has) that gets to me.

Sent from my Windows 7 phone using Board Express

 

[Forgewizard]

Fer criminy's sake! CALM down peeple! First off let me set the record straight I am NOT a ****** of Android OR iOS! Have never had one of those devices and am not sure I would - except that to be a mobile phone coming from Microsoft, which is HUGE - in the business world and considering Microsoft's history already with mobile devices ( ahemm - Windows Mobile - for MANY years), it makes one ponder WHY they have NOT pushed these NEW (?) Windows Phone devices AS usable business tools?

Good grief aren't there ENOUGH digital pocket toys already on the market? Isn't the whole idea behind the smartphone wave to be able to connect workers in the field with the corporate offices? They've packed decent digital cameras, high definition video, wi fi, bluetooth, a keyboard, a hi res screen, a 1 ghz processor for fast computing, and a fair amount of on board memory into the phone these aren't just pretty beepers! I recognize that! Why should I have to carry a digital camera, a video recorder, a laptop, a PDA, a cell phone and a power converter to run all these just to get field work done? Why should my clients have to wait for me to return to the office and then wait on snail mail or a fax or a return call or photo work ups when they could have instant information in the field?

But as one who HAS used Windows MOBILEin the past; both as smartphones and as stand alone PDAs it boggles the mind that with their new iterations that MS has NOT made good use of better, new technology - like removable media - they USED to offer it in just about ALL their PDAs. They also USED to offer bluetooth file exchange (even if the device had Wi-FI). ANd I seem to recall that files could be loaded to the devices by simple USB cord and Windows Explorer! So its not like MS doesn't know HOW to implement such INTEGRATION - they just seemed to have left out a HUGE convenience for the users!

Not EVERYONE is in reach of "the cloud" either via cell signal or wi-fi! Yeah - that's what happens when your business takes you truly into the FIELD! so sky drive becomes MOOT! THIS is where bluetooth file transfer is needed!

I did do a heck of a lot of research prior to moving from the Palm Pre to the WP7 Arrive. I was then and still am wary of all the fragmented Android devices and systems and Apple just annoys me because they are usurpers. So hush to you who think I am stirring the pot, or didn't do my homework!

These are legitimate shortcomings of the WP and it IS worrying that MS doesn't seem to want to offer updates. Go to uservoice and see for yourself that there are a LOT of people wanting MS to improve on things that in the real world shouldn't even be ON a list for updating because they should be inherant in the device!

If you read my original post - you'd see that I am utilizing the computer side of the "smartphone" and it is coming up sorely lacking. I can't fault the phone side of the device - because I can't USE that side of the device until business picks back up and I can afford the data connections again. But as noted before, there ARE several things on the feature phone that just simply have been left off in WP7!

MS doesn't seem to be listening to the thousands of people voicing their concerns in their own uservoice app!

 

[scottcraft]

Pocket fuzz I don't know if there are any fanboys on this thread. You do bring up some good points about WP.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2

 

[socialcarpet]

That kind of mess sounds like user error, not the OS. Android has bugs. Every OS has bugs. That's the nature of software. But I've never had a problem with force closes, radios, reboots, or any of the other strawmen you've been erecting.
Yep, nerd hobbyists like 50% of the American smartphone market.

Ah yes. The classic Android apologist answer to everything. User error.

I used the phone as it was designed, nothing unusual at all. It was unreliable. It was not my imagination that the camera app crashed constantly. It was not my fault either. It was not my imagination that it took almost a year for a Netflix app that was compatible with my Honeycomb tablet shipped. It was not user error.

My Android loving friends all say the same thing. User error. Or "you bought the wrong phone" or "wait until ICS".

The only "user error" that occurred was my purchase of an Android product.

The 50% of the smartphone market using Android has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you walk into any phone store and you've got 50 Androids in your face and 2 iPhones in a corner. You have to go out of your way and make extraordinary effort in order NOT to buy an Android. I'm convinced out of that 50% who buy Android maybe 3-4% are nerd hobbyists who love it. The rest are innocent bystanders who got Android for all the wrong reasons or for no reason at all and wind up with a phone they can tolerate (at best) or hate (at worst)

It could very well be that if I had a better phone, a newer version of the OS, or I flashed the right ROM or rooted the phone I would have had a better experience. I don't doubt that. My point is simply that I shouldn't HAVE to do that and I have no interest in a device that requires that for good performance.

Different strokes for different folks though. I completely understand why some people love Android. It is certainly much more flexible and capable than WP7.

For me though, my experiences have deeply ingrained a sense of distrust in the integrity of the whole platform. Unreliability aside, even if my Android devices were reliable, I still hate the way developers are sloppy with their apps, there's virtually no consistency in the UI design, I had 25 different apps that looked like they were designed for 25 different OS's. The layout, the buttons, the way they look, the way they behaved. No consistency. Maybe a small point for some people, but I found it irritating.

If the chaos and "freedom" of Android is for you, I say more power to you.

For me, it will be a cold day in **** before I ever buy or use any Android device of any kind. Under further scrutiny I now notice Android isn't the only thing Google makes that sucks. Google Docs sucks as well, I realized that the minute I used it and trying Microsoft's free Office Web Apps made Google Apps look like worthless crap.

I'm anti-Google for the most part. Because of their dishonest narrative about being the "good" company who is all about FREEDOM and how free they are going to make you for free. It's all bull****. Google is more sinister than Microsoft has ever been in their wildest dreams. They deal and hustle in people's information and sell your info to people who want to advertise to you. That makes them unworthy of trust. Add to that the fact that they turn out **** software that doesn't work well and doesn't look good.

Lots of reasons not to like Google or anything they have a hand in.

 

[tekhna]

Ah yes. The classic Android apologist answer to everything. User error.

I used the phone as it was designed, nothing unusual at all. It was unreliable. It was not my imagination that the camera app crashed constantly. It was not my fault either. It was not my imagination that it took almost a year for a Netflix app that was compatible with my Honeycomb tablet shipped. It was not user error.

My Android loving friends all say the same thing. User error. Or "you bought the wrong phone" or "wait until ICS".

The only "user error" that occurred was my purchase of an Android product.

The 50% of the smartphone market using Android has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that you walk into any phone store and you've got 50 Androids in your face and 2 iPhones in a corner. You have to go out of your way and make extraordinary effort in order NOT to buy an Android. I'm convinced out of that 50% who buy Android maybe 3-4% are nerd hobbyists who love it. The rest are innocent bystanders who got Android for all the wrong reasons or for no reason at all and wind up with a phone they can tolerate (at best) or hate (at worst)

It could very well be that if I had a better phone, a newer version of the OS, or I flashed the right ROM or rooted the phone I would have had a better experience. I don't doubt that. My point is simply that I shouldn't HAVE to do that and I have no interest in a device that requires that for good performance.

Different strokes for different folks though. I completely understand why some people love Android. It is certainly much more flexible and capable than WP7.

For me though, my experiences have deeply ingrained a sense of distrust in the integrity of the whole platform. Unreliability aside, even if my Android devices were reliable, I still hate the way developers are sloppy with their apps, there's virtually no consistency in the UI design, I had 25 different apps that looked like they were designed for 25 different OS's. The layout, the buttons, the way they look, the way they behaved. No consistency. Maybe a small point for some people, but I found it irritating.

If the chaos and "freedom" of Android is for you, I say more power to you.

For me, it will be a cold day in **** before I ever buy or use any Android device of any kind. Under further scrutiny I now notice Android isn't the only thing Google makes that sucks. Google Docs sucks as well, I realized that the minute I used it and trying Microsoft's free Office Web Apps made Google Apps look like worthless crap.

I'm anti-Google for the most part. Because of their dishonest narrative about being the "good" company who is all about FREEDOM and how free they are going to make you for free. It's all bull****. Google is more sinister than Microsoft has ever been in their wildest dreams. They deal and hustle in people's information and sell your info to people who want to advertise to you. That makes them unworthy of trust. Add to that the fact that they turn out **** software that doesn't work well and doesn't look good.

Lots of reasons not to like Google or anything they have a hand in.

(I'm no Android apologist, as I've stated numerous times, but you are right, it's capable and flexible, and the developers are obnoxious in their inability to follow UI hints--it certainly has shortcomings. And people really need to figure out a way to talk about Android's success--it's succeeding and WP7 is failing for a reason and it's not as simple as "stupid salesman" or whatever the canard of the week is. It might end up being a pyrrhic victory for Google though.)

 

[N8ter]

I really don't think this phone was intended to be a business phone, not a "computer on the go" like androids and iOS. The many gripes you have I don't even get bothered with because I have other devices that can do that for me. I didn't prioritize my phone to be a business device.

I know I know, some of these features aren't only used in business functions, but you really have to take WP7 for what it is, and that is step 2 in the right direction. If you came into the WP7 world expecting it to be all of that, then you really should have done some extensive research before you got it. Sorry my friend, but it's not for everyone. Thankfully you have choices. I know you probably posted because you want to like WP7, but you can't because of it's shortcomings in your lifestyle, but don't worry...you'll be back when they shape up.

When has iOS ever been a computer on the go. When will the hillarity end? iOS and WP7 share way more similarities than the two share with any other platforms.

Neither support USB-MS or SD Cards. Both require you to pay to use your own phone as a development device without hacking it. Both Require a separate App to Sync to a PC (Android 4.0 can now sync Natively with WMP for Pic/Music/Vid since it has built-in MTP now, like Galaxy S phones had). They share many of the same shortcomings from some points of views.

Issue is that Apple has better priorities than Microsoft. Microsoft changes things for the sake of change too many times and they put way too much priority on the People Hub and stuff like that instead of the Notification system which is the worst of the top 4 platforms (even though from a worldwide perspective WP7 is more like #5 or 6).

Lots of people use their phones as business devices. BYOD is sweeping the nation here, as businesses realize they really don't need things like BES and with Exchange ActiveSync being so de facto they can just let people bring their own smartphones. Even from that perspective, WP7's poor Exchange policy support puts it at a disadvantage vs. Android and iOS.

 

[smoledman]

Windows Phone only becomes a "true" computing platform with Apollo. For now it's a great social-networking/casual gaming phone.

 

[N8ter]

The internals will change but I doubt Microsoft will substantially change their stance on how their platform will function, except through user backlash and that's improbable since too many people are content with getting less even when they know they need or want more.

 

[cckgz4]

Hopefully you find something that works for you. Like I said in the "Who's Enjoying Their L900" topic, it's all about the user experience.

 

[AngryNil]

WP7 touts "integration" - but with WHAT? I can't use it as a USB device - but my Sanyo feature phone does!

This makes no sense. You can't belittle current (if limited) integration by complaining about a totally unrelated restriction.

Synchronzing of files via ZUNE is NOT quick, nor intuitive, nor synchronistic! Files get duplicated, not deleted, or deleted on one device and not the other requiring me to follow behind the sync to clean up the mess

How about you edit your sync settings? There's a nice button right beside the sync text.

I cannot exchange the great pix and videos from my Arrive to my Netbook or my laptop unless I have ZUNE AND a Wi FI connection - not always available when I am in the field. WHY isn't Bluetooth file exchange turned on? But hmmm, Android does bluetooth file exchange.

You can upload to SkyDrive or bring a USB cable. Good luck transferring a video over Bluetooth.

And people really need to figure out a way to talk about Android's success--it's succeeding and WP7 is failing for a reason and it's not as simple as "stupid salesman" or whatever the canard of the week is.

Android is succeeding because it's positioned by the carriers, media and hive mind as the only viable alternative to the restricted model of iOS. If people truly loved Android, Apple wouldn't be raking in majority of smartphone sales in America, predominantly with a single device.

Some of you obviously haven't used Android in a couple years, have you?

Oh, you mean some haven't used Android 4.0, which is on 3% of Android devices? Pre-ICS is quite simply awful, reminds me directly of a feature phone or Windows Mobile experience.

 

[N8ter]

Android is succeeding because it's positioned by the carriers, media and hive mind as the only viable alternative to the restricted model of iOS. If people truly loved Android, Apple wouldn't be raking in majority of smartphone sales in America, predominantly with a single device

Wrong and disingenuous.

Android's also succeeding because it's not discriminating it's userbase. It's good for pretty much all purposes, consumer and business users can use it. The same cannot be said for WP7. This platform put itself at an instant disadvantage by snubbing business users when it was released right aroudn the time when the BYOD phenomenon in businesses was picking up steam. They lose a lot of potential marketshare by doing that (WM/BB to WP7 conversions, in particular).

Secondly, your facts are wrong. Apple has the 3GS, 4, and 4S on the market right now and they're still behind Android for Marketshare in the USA - and solidly behind. Google has more momentum here than Apple does. Apple's marketshare numbers also include a ton of iPhone 4 devices, both new 8GB models as well as people who did not upgrade to the 4S because it was released in the middle of their contracts. It also includes a ton of iPhone 3GS devices.

Lastly, you completely misunderstood his first statement... His point was what good is the integration (which is at best on par with Sense/TouchWiz Android devices) to him when the phone doesn't support functions that are critical to him. Kind of like a dream home with no doors, mind you...

Lastly Android is not even comparable to WM which was terribad even on the HD2. Sense and TouchWiz flagships perform well and really that hasn't been much of an issue since mid-late 2010 TBQH. The hardware overpowers pretty much all performance issues. All new Android phones are coming with ICS so it's not really much of a factor - look at the One X/S review. It's just as performant as anything else on the market running thicker/heavier applications as opposed to WP7's think client-type hubs that people rave about instant loading on.

Anyone with the correct number of chromosomes will be buying an ICS device from here on out, not GB and there are barely any FroYo devices still being sold on the market which haven't recieved GB updates except low end devices (as in, below mid-range).

Never understand why some people are so EMO over a smartphone OS that they have to rely on such derogatory writing and fact-bending to try to get their terrible points across.

 

[ubizmo]

There's always BlackBerry. You can have Bluetooth, mass USB storage, removable SD card, decent battery life and the ability to carry a spare battery, the ability to send and receive files from DropBox when in Wifi or network, view edit send/receive Word or Excel documents. You can customize notifications to your heart's content.

Regrettably, the OS 7 devices aren't selling well because it's a "lame duck" OS until BB10 comes out in Q4 (probably). But OS 7 is actually pretty good; much smoother than earlier versions of BBOS, and the ability to use the touch screen capabilities only when you want to is very nice.

BBOS isn't as pretty as WP, that's for sure, and its limitations are well known. But for the kinds of "in the field" work-related uses mentioned by the OP (not all of them, but many) it's still a pretty good choice. I have a WP phone because I enjoy it and I'm interested in the future of WP, but for getting things done my BB 9900 is still my "work phone."

 

[bear_lx]

There's always BlackBerry. You can have Bluetooth, mass USB storage, removable SD card, decent battery life and the ability to carry a spare battery, the ability to send and receive files from DropBox when in Wifi or network, view edit send/receive Word or Excel documents. You can customize notifications to your heart's content.

Regrettably, the OS 7 devices aren't selling well because it's a "lame duck" OS until BB10 comes out in Q4 (probably). But OS 7 is actually pretty good; much smoother than earlier versions of BBOS, and the ability to use the touch screen capabilities only when you want to is very nice.

BBOS isn't as pretty as WP, that's for sure, and its limitations are well known. But for the kinds of "in the field" work-related uses mentioned by the OP (not all of them, but many) it's still a pretty good choice. I have a WP phone because I enjoy it and I'm interested in the future of WP, but for getting things done my BB 9900 is still my "work phone."

agreed, +1. for what your describing as needs... the BB seems to be a perfect match. i was just giving you a hard time over android, because the word makes me gag. lol

 

[AngryNil]

Android's also succeeding because it's not discriminating it's userbase. It's good for pretty much all purposes, consumer and business users can use it.

You call my post incorrect then begin your rationale with an "also". That is truly disingenuous. It's got a wide feature-set, which positions it as the alternative to the iPhone. It also makes it a pretty poor platform for the average Joe, who is the one moving from a feature phone.

If you think the explosion of the smartphone market is from business users, you're hopelessly delusional.

Lastly Android is not even comparable to WM which was terribad even on the HD2. Sense and TouchWiz flagships perform well and really that hasn't been much of an issue since mid-late 2010 TBQH.

Pre-ICS, Android looked and felt like a revamped feature phone OS. Samsung shipped a laggy lock screen on its 2011 flagship, no idea what you're talking about.

Lastly, you completely misunderstood his first statement... His point was what good is the integration (which is at best on par with Sense/TouchWiz Android devices) to him when the phone doesn't support functions that are critical to him.

And you say I'm bending the truth? Go re-read the sentence I quoted from his post.

To end this - last time I checked, the iPhones accounted for the majority of smartphone sales on Verizon and AT&T in the holiday season and still held that majority in AT&T's first quarter.

 

[scottcraft]

As far as android versus iphone sales, I would like to see some statistics showing what percentage of android sales are from phones that cost $50 or less. Currently the only iphone in that price range is the 3GS on AT&T. I am of the opinion that low priced android phones are part of the reason for android having the market share it has. I am interested to see how android sales are affected when the next iphone is released. Verizon and AT&T should both have the iphone at free or near free, mid-range and top end prices.

 

[tekhna]

Android is succeeding because it's positioned by the carriers, media and hive mind as the only viable alternative to the restricted model of iOS. If people truly loved Android, Apple wouldn't be raking in majority of smartphone sales in America, predominantly with a single device.

Try again. You're just restarting everything everyone else has said before. There's a reason Android is winning, and truthfully Microsoft should have had every advantage in the world coming into this fight, so again the question, why is WP7 getting crushed?

I argued in another thread:
That's my point--WP7 didn't make an impression at all. Like basically nothing. It's not about bad impressions, it's just that when you don't make an impression at all no one remembers you're there. I'd bet outside of nerd circles and those people who ran into a WP7 phone at a store, no one knows it exists. My dad, who's relatively tech savvy (for a guy his age) and uses Microsoft products for everything except his phone didn't even know Microsoft had a phone OS anymore.

I'd be willing to bet if you went around asking random folks on the street what they know about WP7, I'd bet half of them would tell you they didn't even know Microsoft made a phone OS anymore. It's not just that WP7's marketshare is effectively 0%, their mindshare is effectively 0% too, outside of design and nerd circles.

So why?

Oh, you mean some haven't used Android 4.0, which is on 3% of Android devices? Pre-ICS is quite simply awful, reminds me directly of a feature phone or Windows Mobile experience.

I'd bet 3% of Android phones is more than all WP7 phones sold
Gingerbread was a big step forward, ICS even more so.

 

[tekhna]

As far as android versus iphone sales, I would like to see some statistics showing what percentage of android sales are from phones that cost $50 or less. Currently the only iphone in that price range is the 3GS on AT&T. I am of the opinion that low priced android phones are part of the reason for android having the market share it has. I am interested to see how android sales are affected when the next iphone is released. Verizon and AT&T should both have the iphone at free or near free, mid-range and top end prices.

I'd be curious too, but I'd bet it's few than you expect. I know some of the best-selling Android phones are the Galaxy SII and the Galaxy Note, which aren't exactly cheap.

 

[Forgewizard]

There's always BlackBerry. You can have Bluetooth, mass USB storage, removable SD card, decent battery life and the ability to carry a spare battery, the ability to send and receive files from DropBox when in Wifi or network, view edit send/receive Word or Excel documents. You can customize notifications to your heart's content.

Regrettably, the OS 7 devices aren't selling well because it's a "lame duck" OS until BB10 comes out in Q4 (probably). But OS 7 is actually pretty good; much smoother than earlier versions of BBOS, and the ability to use the touch screen capabilities only when you want to is very nice.

BBOS isn't as pretty as WP, that's for sure, and its limitations are well known. But for the kinds of "in the field" work-related uses mentioned by the OP (not all of them, but many) it's still a pretty good choice. I have a WP phone because I enjoy it and I'm interested in the future of WP, but for getting things done my BB 9900 is still my "work phone."

@ irlju: Umm, hello? That's exactly my point! AN outdated (?) Feature Phone like my Sanyo scp-8400 CAN be used as a simple USB device - but this new high tech SMARTPHONE can' be read via usb cable? NOR does it have an on board file locater that reads device files AND the micro sd card files! I cannot create file folders on board the WP7 but can on the Sanyo! so what good is 16GB of storage if 1) I can't reach it 2) can't find it 3) can;t even organize files to suit MY needs?

HMmmm, a Blackberry, may have to look closer at one, but the last time I did, the screen pixelation looked like it was using an original Treo screen! Also will require yet another field test of my service area for signal reception. Have run across very few BBs out in the field and none of them were getting cell signal from either carrier, yet I was getting signal from Sprint ( then on a Centro and recently on my Sanyo scp 8400). So yeah - the BB MAY be a viable alternative if the "smart" side of it sill offers functions that the WP7 doesn't. Because right now the WP7 doesn't integrate with anything! But gee, it sure looks pretty doing its OWN thing with itself! :dry

N8tr sees my point! I've got a "dream home" with no doors! Designed by whizz bang engineers, built to the engineered specs, but sans accessible and functional plumbing. After awhile the "dream home" just stinks! But hey don't it look pretty? Just hold yer nose when you visit.....

 

[bear_lx]

Try again. You're just restarting everything everyone else has said before. There's a reason Android is winning, and truthfully Microsoft should have had every advantage in the world coming into this fight, so again the question, why is WP7 getting crushed?

I argued in another thread:
That's my point--WP7 didn't make an impression at all. Like basically nothing. It's not about bad impressions, it's just that when you don't make an impression at all no one remembers you're there. I'd bet outside of nerd circles and those people who ran into a WP7 phone at a store, no one knows it exists. My dad, who's relatively tech savvy (for a guy his age) and uses Microsoft products for everything except his phone didn't even know Microsoft had a phone OS anymore.

I'd be willing to bet if you went around asking random folks on the street what they know about WP7, I'd bet half of them would tell you they didn't even know Microsoft made a phone OS anymore. It's not just that WP7's marketshare is effectively 0%, their mindshare is effectively 0% too, outside of design and nerd circles.

So why?



I'd bet 3% of Android phones is more than all WP7 phones sold
Gingerbread was a big step forward, ICS even more so.

id also bet that you could ask android users if they have ICS and 75% of them wouldnt even know what it was? you could also ask people what android is, back in 2009, after it had been out for only 2 years... and they would answer the same way... android is succeeding in sheer numbers due to the overwhelming number of phones it makes. both high end and low end. it will soon die once people realize there are better options. ive owned numerous high end phones, last being the razr... all of which had similar problems. androids open source OS givs you the world of possibility, but with all that customizing comes fragmentaion and lag. i dont care what you say or how you defend that. i speak form experience...

furthermore, if you dislike wp7 so much? why are you here, in this forum? please find a better home at androidcentral.com... thats where android enthusiasts like to hang out. im not going to go to imore, or androidcentral, and troll around their forums stirring up rucus about how android or ios sucks... it makes no sense to me why people who genuinly feel that another OS is better , like to complaine about it here?

 

[tekhna]

id also bet that you could ask android users if they have ICS and 75% of them wouldnt even know what it was? you could also ask people what android is, back in 2009, after it had been out for only 2 years... and they would answer the same way... android is succeeding in sheer numbers due to the overwhelming number of phones it makes. both high end and low end. it will soon die once people realize there are better options. ive owned numerous high end phones, last being the razr... all of which had similar problems. androids open source OS givs you the world of possibility, but with all that customizing comes fragmentaion and lag. i dont care what you say or how you defend that. i speak form experience...

furthermore, if you dislike wp7 so much? why are you here, in this forum? please find a better home at androidcentral.com... thats where android enthusiasts like to hang out. im not going to go to imore, or androidcentral, and troll around their forums stirring up rucus about how android or ios sucks... it makes no sense to me why people who genuinly feel that another OS is better , like to complaine about it here?

I don't dislike WP7. I'm waiting for a WP7 phone on Verizon. But the hatred and misunderstanding of Android here is inexplicable and incredibly off-putting. I agree that Android's marketshare could very possibly fall--Apple is selling a ****ton of iphones. And your reasoning re: Android/WP7 don't really make sense--there were a ton of WP7 phones released by multiple manufacturers. Microsoft was smart not to go the Apple route there.