05-04-2012 08:42 PM
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  1. freestaterocker's Avatar
    Forgetting that Paul Thurrott has been wrong about pretty much everything this statement is about as wrong as you can get.

    What investors? Also if you think them loosing money after just two years means anything go take a look at this thing called the Xbox. Microsoft throws money at things at the beginning. They call Crawl-Walk-Run I think
    Actually I think they call it "red ink...red ink...red ink...red ink...BLACK!" ;)
    05-04-2012 07:59 AM
  2. sting7k's Avatar
    Did anyone else listen to Windows Weekly #259? Paul Thurrott said that some sources in Microsoft were hinting at the fact that if the Windows Phone market share does not increase significantly this year, that Microsoft would be willing to fold it up and move on. He said it was something he had never heard out of them, and that previously they said they were in it to win it. He seemed really bummed by it. Given their history with the Zune and Kin....what do you think? It kind of bummed me out, especially since I find Paul Thurrott to be an extremely reliable source.

    Windows Weekly 259 | TWiT.TV *Fast forward to around the 45:00 mark
    WP7 is not the Kin or Zune. It's a Windows product and you can believe that they are in it for the long haul. They aren't exactly hurting from it so there's no reason for them to even consider it.
    05-04-2012 08:23 AM
  3. tekhna's Avatar
    How long did it take again for Xbox to turn a profit? Like 7 years? Not to mention mobile presence is INFINITELY more valuable to their future relevance...
    The Xbox had traction in the marketplace. WP7 simply doesn't. Projects can lose money if there's prospects for long-term growth, like the Xbox. But that's what I've been asking is, what is the prospect for long-term growth? Or even short-term growth?

    Crawl-walk-run only works if you figure out how to crawl. People are saying "Microsoft can't afford to give up on mobile!" What if they can, or don't have a choice? What if even Android is in trouble, given Apple's absurd dominance? Android has a whole new generation of tablets out, and they're dead in the water, not selling. The iPad is absolutely king. It's not a tablet market, it's an iPad market.
    05-04-2012 09:21 AM
  4. selfcreation's Avatar
    Paul Thurrott = #1 most unreliable WP source.
    I think he started 20 rumors in the last year alone that all turned out to be BS.
    I dont read his stuff any more or even pay attention to him.

    MS will NEVER drop the CELLPHONE market... maybe go an other direction? like fire half the staff of programers and marketing at MS.. but that's it. MS pretty much created the PDA market ( not saying palm cause they dead now lol ) so it wouldn't be logical for them to drop it .

    not to mention they invested SO MUCH cash in Wp that it be stupid to drop it. if anything updates would slow from 1 year updates to 2years....

    also WP sales are up so this statement

    if the Windows Phone market share does not increase significantly this year, that Microsoft would be willing to fold it up and move on.:
    is BS.
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 05-04-2012 at 09:38 AM.
    05-04-2012 09:30 AM
  5. tekhna's Avatar
    MS will NEVER drop the CELLPHONE market... maybe go an other direction? like fire half the staff of programers and marketing at MS.. but that's it.
    Give reasons. Don't just state things. Give reasons. So far the only reason I've heard is, Microsoft can't because it just can't! Which is more than a little tautological.
    What's the business model for WP? How do they succeed, and what do they do if they can't?
    Depatter likes this.
    05-04-2012 09:35 AM
  6. selfcreation's Avatar
    well the reasons i gave if you actually read my post properly

    1. They invested to much cash in WP for them to just walk away after only 2 years. ( billions)
    2. they basically created the PDA market so for them to drop it wouldn't make business sens ether cause most of their departments at MS revolve around PDA and the advancement of their OS.


    and I don't work for MS I don't know the CEO personally , we dont go fishing on weekends , so NO I cant know for sure just like the rest of the people post in this useless thread/all over the WEB

    its ALL RUMORS... and i gave my opinion on the matter.. now can you give your opinion on the matter as well instead of posting a non related post?

    thanks.
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 05-04-2012 at 10:12 AM.
    05-04-2012 09:53 AM
  7. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Give reasons. Don't just state things. Give reasons. So far the only reason I've heard is, Microsoft can't because it just can't! Which is more than a little tautological.
    What's the business model for WP? How do they succeed, and what do they do if they can't?
    I think the statement Microsoft won't give up on mobile is one of those ultra obvious statements that don't need an explanation.

    But, it's also actually been explained a dozen times by users that smartphones are the future of computing and Microsoft is a software company. Mobile is a fast, growing extremely high margin area that is relevant to both consumers and businesses. Basically, Android will become the next Windows OS and Microsoft needs Windows Phone to be the next Windows OS. Windows is Microsoft's golden goose! Also, when Android is squeezed out of the market, then Microsoft can start exercising its monopoly powers and price gouge it as it does with desktop Windows.

    Again, I point to Microsoft's cloud services. Microsoft didn't give up on search, cloud storage, etc. did it? Well those never gained any traction either and they're still hemorrhaging money! And they're still not dead! Microsoft isn't going to give up on smartphones just like it never gave up on the internet. Thinking that it will is absurd and makes 0 sense. (They might give up on the current OS WP, but that is all. I'm absolutely certain there will be something else if the do a 360 on WP.)
    05-04-2012 10:02 AM
  8. cluberti's Avatar
    It'll be interesting to see what happens with Apollo devices, especially with Blackberry falling by the wayside. Especially with Blackberry, who is betting on v10 and new devices but it's likely that v10 isn't going to save the platform - it's got no real chance against iOS and Android users, and looks like it's based on the playbook which makes it less likely to compete with a Windows ecosystem when Apollo comes out based on Win8 (and apps become portable between the two).

    I don't personally see Microsoft getting out of the phone OS business, because with Apollo they'll finally have an NT-kernel based OS to run on a phone, a tablet, a PC, etc, with apps written for Metro/WinRT, Silverlight, and .NET environments being fairly portable with minimal changes between the two. It's always possible to fold a business unit losing money, but I think this one (given the consumerization of IT going on right now and likely into the future) is one area they'll stay in until they move into the black, similar to what was done with the xbox.

    Also, @Sentimentgx4, products like Bing, SkyDrive, MSN, and cloud computing still exist because they help to sell other products - just because one product doesn't make a profit doesn't mean it does nothing to benefit the bottom line. To wit, do you like natural desktop search? Would you like cloud backup of your files and settings? How about synching all of this data between all of your devices, mobile and otherwise, automatically? How about if they're all built into the OS against your LiveID that you use with all of your Microsoft devices, ala Windows 8 and Windows Phone and XBox? I understand if you single out one product line that competes with other services (for instance, Bing or SkyDrive), the story probably doesn't look all that great. If you step back from the chalkboard so that you can actually read what's written there for the long term, it starts to make (real) sense. Yes, investors really like profit - but Microsoft's stock hasn't really moved much in over 10 years, and most of that is due to investors, not the company's profits or actions. At some point, you have to start executing on a long-term vision and eschew quarterly returns as a measuring stick for how you do business, especially if that long-term vision has the potential to make more than simply shooting for the next 3 month cycle.
    05-04-2012 10:26 AM
  9. tekhna's Avatar
    I think the statement Microsoft won't give up on mobile is one of those ultra obvious statements that don't need an explanation.

    But, it's also actually been explained a dozen times by users that smartphones are the future of computing and Microsoft is a software company. Mobile is a fast, growing extremely high margin area that is relevant to both consumers and businesses. Basically, Android will become the next Windows OS and Microsoft needs Windows Phone to be the next Windows OS. Windows is Microsoft's golden goose! Also, when Android is squeezed out of the market, then Microsoft can start exercising its monopoly powers and price gouge it as it does with desktop Windows.

    Again, I point to Microsoft's cloud services. Microsoft didn't give up on search, cloud storage, etc. did it? Well those never gained any traction either and they're still hemorrhaging money! And they're still not dead! Microsoft isn't going to give up on smartphones just like it never gave up on the internet. Thinking that it will is absurd and makes 0 sense. (They might give up on the current OS WP, but that is all. I'm absolutely certain there will be something else if the do a 360 on WP.)
    Let me put it a bit differently--what's the difference between WebOS and WP7? Everyone said there's no way HP will kill WebOS, they've invested too much money in it, every serious tech company needs to be a player in the mobile marketplace, it's too soon. They've killed WebOS, and they're doing better for it. Period. End of story.

    Pretty much the only path to success for WP7 is hoping Android stumbles, but that's a really long game, and Microsoft is really far behind. Android is finally truly competitive with iOS with ICS and the One X/S and the GS3. The next 9 months could not just give Android a lead in marketshare, but make people believe that it's iOS's equal. If that happens WP7 is screwed. WP7 had a chance when Android was still a buggy mess with some great hardware and lots of mediocre hardware. That's not Android anymore, despite this board's image.
    05-04-2012 10:52 AM
  10. smapor's Avatar
    Its not $99 Its the equivalent of buying a cell phone. You buy it for $99 and then pay 15 bucks a month for two years. Its actually more expensive than just buying one
    most people who buy an Xbox is going to sign up for the service anyway.

    if that is true $99 is A better deal.
    05-04-2012 10:59 AM
  11. theefman's Avatar
    Let me put it a bit differently--what's the difference between WebOS and WP7? Everyone said there's no way HP will kill WebOS, they've invested too much money in it, every serious tech company needs to be a player in the mobile marketplace, it's too soon. They've killed WebOS, and they're doing better for it. Period. End of story.

    Pretty much the only path to success for WP7 is hoping Android stumbles, but that's a really long game, and Microsoft is really far behind. Android is finally truly competitive with iOS with ICS and the One X/S and the GS3. The next 9 months could not just give Android a lead in marketshare, but make people believe that it's iOS's equal. If that happens WP7 is screwed. WP7 had a chance when Android was still a buggy mess with some great hardware and lots of mediocre hardware. That's not Android anymore, despite this board's image.
    Not sure why you think Microsoft should give up just because android is supposedly competitive with ios. I personally dont hold to the opinion that there can and should be only apple and google as options in the smartphone world, no matter how great their marketshare is.

    Ultimately, no one can see the future. Saying MS should give up just because others are ahead now is like saying Samsung should not have aspired to be the number 1 phone maker when Nokia held that spot for all those years. Also WP helps Microsoft tie their services to a mobile experience, which is where the growth is at the moment and for the forseeable future. Unless there is a set time when everything ends, the game is not over. Certainly in a market thats so young calling it a victory for anyone is premature. There's a long way to go and many cards to be played yet.
    Last edited by theefman; 05-04-2012 at 11:08 AM.
    snowmutt likes this.
    05-04-2012 11:02 AM
  12. smapor's Avatar
    Let me put it a bit differently--what's the difference between WebOS and WP7? Everyone said there's no way HP will kill WebOS, they've invested too much money in it, every serious tech company needs to be a player in the mobile marketplace, it's too soon. They've killed WebOS, and they're doing better for it. Period. End of story.

    Pretty much the only path to success for WP7 is hoping Android stumbles, but that's a really long game, and Microsoft is really far behind. Android is finally truly competitive with iOS with ICS and the One X/S and the GS3. The next 9 months could not just give Android a lead in marketshare, but make people believe that it's iOS's equal. If that happens WP7 is screwed. WP7 had a chance when Android was still a buggy mess with some great hardware and lots of mediocre hardware. That's not Android anymore, despite this board's image.


    HP is not a software company, big difference......... Them trying to run webos is like Microsoft selling SANS
    aubreyq likes this.
    05-04-2012 11:04 AM
  13. smapor's Avatar
    Android is never going to be enterprise ready.. Our company just declared no Android phones allowed on our network.

    Your going to need an agent on those phones just to feel safe. Just what we need Mcafee on an android smartphone
    aubreyq likes this.
    05-04-2012 11:08 AM
  14. tekhna's Avatar
    Not sure why you think Microsoft should give up just because android is supposedly competitive with ios. I personally dont hold to the opinion that there can and should be only apple and google as options in the smartphone world, no matter how great their marketshare is.

    Ultimately, no one can see the future. Saying MS should give up just because others are ahead now is like saying Samsung should not have aspired to be the number 1 phone maker when Nokia held that spot for all those years. Unless there is a set time when everything ends, the game is not over. Certainly in a market thats so young calling it a victory for anyone is premature. There's a long way to go and many cards to be played yet.
    Right, but you didn't answer the question. What makes WP7 different from WebOS? People here have been arguing that Microsoft can't possibly get out of the mobile market, that's lunacy. But that's exactly what HP did. They refocused their business. IBM got out of the consumer market. They're doing fine.
    And what I've been asking is, what are the criteria for WP7 to be deemed a success? 5% marketshare? That would mean doubling their current marketshare. 10% marketshare? 20%?
    How long does Microsoft stay at 2% marketshare before calling it a day?
    05-04-2012 11:10 AM
  15. tekhna's Avatar
    HP is not a software company, big difference......... Them trying to run webos is like Microsoft selling SANS
    Or Xboxes?
    05-04-2012 11:11 AM
  16. smapor's Avatar
    Or Xboxes?
    PC gaming = Xbox

    Next
    05-04-2012 11:15 AM
  17. tekhna's Avatar
    PC gaming = Xbox

    Next
    lol what? Are you serious?
    05-04-2012 11:17 AM
  18. smapor's Avatar
    lol what? Are you serious?
    more serious than you think an HP company can run software.

    The very same company that proposed seperating their PC market.
    05-04-2012 11:22 AM
  19. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Let me put it a bit differently--what's the difference between WebOS and WP7? Everyone said there's no way HP will kill WebOS, they've invested too much money in it, every serious tech company needs to be a player in the mobile marketplace, it's too soon. They've killed WebOS, and they're doing better for it. Period. End of story.
    This has already been said. HP is a hardware company. Software, such as WebOS, has NEVER been relevant to its financial health. Microsoft is a software company. WP will one day be its bread and butter. Its do or die.

    I'd also like to point out that Microsoft's actions have been completely contrary to the fact that they are ready to ditch WP or they regard mobile as unimportant.

    Microsoft basically GAVE away WPs in the Smoked by WP Campaign. They spent over 100 million pitching the Lumia 900. Why would MS spend that much money on a product they are about to shaft or regard with secondary importance?

    (Okay, it might still make sense if this money was spent the money a couple years ago; but, Microsoft spent the money very recently! And they're still spending! MS won't throw money at a dying product. Investors would regard this as a gross misappropriation of funds.)

    Microsoft is pitching WP harder than I've seen them pitch any other product before. MS definitely regards mobile as extremely important. (Contrast with HP, which didn't invest hundreds of millions advertising WebOS.)
    Last edited by Sentimentgx4; 05-04-2012 at 11:30 AM.
    05-04-2012 11:22 AM
  20. KingCrimson's Avatar
    WP market has 80K apps, that's one difference with WebOS already.
    Also I disagree that Microsoft is pitching WP harder then anything before. Proof:

    Depatter and aubreyq like this.
    05-04-2012 11:45 AM
  21. Depatter's Avatar
    Here are the latest financials just in case anyone is interested.

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=-sBcG4SN
    05-04-2012 11:58 AM
  22. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Also I disagree that Microsoft is pitching WP harder then anything before. Proof:

    I respectfully disagree. Microsoft was a atom of a company that it is now when Windows 1.0 was released. Do I think its a more important product than WP? Yes. Do I think Microsoft pitched it harder? No. Microsoft has bent over more pitching all its modern products.
    05-04-2012 12:13 PM
  23. canesfan625's Avatar
    The Xbox had traction in the marketplace. WP7 simply doesn't. Projects can lose money if there's prospects for long-term growth, like the Xbox. But that's what I've been asking is, what is the prospect for long-term growth? Or even short-term growth?

    Crawl-walk-run only works if you figure out how to crawl. People are saying "Microsoft can't afford to give up on mobile!" What if they can, or don't have a choice? What if even Android is in trouble, given Apple's absurd dominance? Android has a whole new generation of tablets out, and they're dead in the water, not selling. The iPad is absolutely king. It's not a tablet market, it's an iPad market.
    I don't think you understand just how much money MSFT has lost on the Xbox. You need to do some research. They said themselves they are in the mobile business with WP for the long haul so im not sure whats difficult to understand about that. Android tables are doing bad because they suck. Have you actually used one? Its a guarantee that W8 tablets will bring some competition.

    most people who buy an Xbox is going to sign up for the service anyway.

    if that is true $99 is A better deal.
    How is paying 459 dollars for a 4gb xbox/kinect + Live that you are locked into for two years a better deal? Its only better if the rumored services are included
    05-04-2012 12:18 PM
  24. Joelist's Avatar
    Really, the behavior of some here is laughable. Attacking Thurotte (who contrary to the opinion of some has been a pretty accurate barometer) because you don't like what he is saying is silly.

    Also, he did not make any definitive statement that MS expected increased market share this year or it was closing it up - he said he had heard from SOME contacts in MS that if 2012 did not show market share upswing than they MIGHT be willing to move on. This could easily be true - in any large project you have to have success parameters and it may be time in MS plan to review performance against those parameters. I hope it isn't but it could be.
    snowmutt likes this.
    05-04-2012 12:25 PM
  25. Depatter's Avatar
    05-04-2012 12:25 PM
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