Why pay premium prices for lesser specs?

[cp2_4eva]

All of folks that currently own a windows phone 7 device know it's worth, but to the people new to smartphones or just in general don't know much about them would assume that more X is better. Windows phones happen to have less X than many devices out there, but runs a lot better (in my opinion) than many other phones out there. But you wont truly know that until you buy into the phone. In the store it may have less things installed on it and then you wont get the full experience.

I was playing with the HTC One X the other day and to my surprise (or not so surprise) I still found some lag in transitions, bringing up webpages, etc. Where it shined was that camera. man was it sweet. But in the stores you have a windows phone which many store associates don't pay much attention to until now, but the display model has NO extra apps to show off some more live tile functionality and more of what it brings to the table. The average Joe sees that and finds it to be plain, but we all know it's great.

 

[aubreyq]

I was playing with the HTC One X the other day...Where it shined was that camera. man was it sweet.

HTC has been kicking a$$ with their phone cameras. Looks like they have that down pat.

 

[selfcreation]

well the sooner people relies that buying into SPECS is a BAD idea the sooner they would relies that they are paying for OVER ALL QUALITY and not just specs.

My single core FOCUS is worth HUNDREDS more then the Crap Samsung Nexus or GS2..

even with there *superior* specs ...my phone is still smother , faster , more reliable ...etc...

so specs = mean NOTHING. if you buy into specs you ether misinformed and/or a Media Child(brainwashed)

 

[N8ter]

That's like saying 12mp camera is better than an 8mp. We all know that it's simply not true. I will gladly buy the lowered spec camera if it gave me better pictures.

MP Count has always been a useless metric; all it tells you is how big the picture is, and nothing about the actual quality of the picture.

There are more important things than that, and Android/iOS devices continue to have superior camera tech in them than Windows Phones coupled with easily superior camera software to go along with it. Some of them have dedicated chips for image processing allowing you to do things like take stills while recording video or shooting rather high quality burst shots.

This discussion has been made many times and the general consensus is that the user experience makes up for it but that's purely subjective. People are increasingly making buys based on objective, tangible aspects of the device and specs are a huge part of that. Lagging behind so far looks bad and makes it seem like the device is overpriced. People will often go with the technology that is more up to date and will last the longest without falling too far behind. With WP7 devices, consumers feel like they're starting in 10th place trying to catch up to an Amtrak on horseback.

 

[N8ter]

well the sooner people relies that buying into SPECS is a BAD idea the sooner they would relies that they are paying for OVER ALL QUALITY and not just specs.

My single core FOCUS is worth HUNDREDS more then the Crap Samsung Nexus or GS2..

even with there *superior* specs ...my phone is still smother , faster , more reliable ...etc...

so specs = mean NOTHING. if you buy into specs you ether misinformed and/or a Media Child(brainwashed)

GS2 is bad phone to use in that comparison since that phone has recieved glowing reviews for its performance, reliability, and even its battery life. Personally I know for a fact the GSII is a superior device to a 1st gen Focus. Really, you're stretching things.

Specs do matter. Even if WP7 had BT file transfer or tethering, the GSII would outperform it handily becuase it has a module with BT3 + HS allowing up to 24 Mb/sec transfer speeds. The Focus has BT 3.1. The GSII has a sAMOLED+ screen, the Focus has a 1st gen sAMOLOED PenTile Screen which looks terrible and burns in easily (I had a Vibrant, same screen tech). The focus does not outperform the GSII. Not sure where you're getting that from. The GS2 Camera is much superior to what's in the focus. There is no area where the Focus is better than the GS2 that is purely objective. Pretty much everything from Cell Radio to BT to WiFi module to Screen Tech to Camera, etc. is superior in that phone.

The Focus is basically a downgraded GS1 device with WP7 on it.

There are games that lag on WP7 devices that perform without a hitch on that phone (and others) due to the superior SoC and huge RAM differential between the two.

Hardware matters a lot, not sure why people are trying this hard to discredit its impact.

I'm not sure what Nexus you're talking about, the Nexus S is a downgraded GS1 as well, the Galaxy Nesus is superior to a Focus in almost every way except it lacks an SD Card slot.

The hardware argument is loss for all current WP7 devices. The user experience is subjective and if a consumer prefers WP7 then perhaps they will choose it based on its merits as a software system. However a lot of people base percieved value on the hardware components (read: specs) and they are at a huge disadvantage there.

Yes, maybe Apollo will fix that. If Microsoft opens up things a bit more than I think Nokia will not fare as well against Samsung and HTC, though The reason why Samsung's plastic phones sell so well is because the hardware in them is fantastic. HTC faltered because even though their external build quality was good, their hardware was worse. Nokia is running the tables in WP7's eco because Microsoft locked the specs so people can just buy based on external build quality and be assured that the internal specs are basically equalized between all the vendors, anyways. The tables will turn once Microsoft starts allowing vendors like Samsung to use their own hardware in their phones.

 

[N8ter]

The Lumia 900, for example, is actually more expensive than the iPhone 4S:

iPhone 4S - $188: iPhone 4S Costs $188 To Manufacture

Lumia 900 - $209: Lumia 900 materials cost $209, point to low-cost approach by Nokia, Microsoft - Computerworld

Well, Apple sells significantly more 4Ses than Nokia sells L900s, so they probably get a better deal on components since they buy significantly more.

You can see that in full effect in the processor prices. The A5 Apple uses costs less per unit than what Nokia pays for a worse SoC. Apple gets a discount cause they buy a ton of them. I'm sure they get discounts on most of their components. Vendors like Apple's buying power, notwithstanding the fact that they can run you dry of inventory at times.

That isn't suprising and doens't signal the L900 is higher quality device internally, cause it doesn't even come close to the iPhone 4S as for quality internal components.

 

[scottcraft]

I've never played with a focus, but my trophy really isn't up to par with the galaxy nexus. Hopefully windows 8 will change that.

Sent from my Windows 7 phone using Board Express

 

[fatclue_98]

GS2 is bad phone to use in that comparison since that phone has recieved glowing reviews for its performance, reliability, and even its battery life. Personally I know for a fact the GSII is a superior device to a 1st gen Focus. Really, you're stretching things.

Specs do matter. Even if WP7 had BT file transfer or tethering, the GSII would outperform it handily becuase it has a module with BT3 + HS allowing up to 24 Mb/sec transfer speeds. The Focus has BT 3.1. The GSII has a sAMOLED+ screen, the Focus has a 1st gen sAMOLOED PenTile Screen which looks terrible and burns in easily (I had a Vibrant, same screen tech). The focus does not outperform the GSII. Not sure where you're getting that from. The GS2 Camera is much superior to what's in the focus. There is no area where the Focus is better than the GS2 that is purely objective. Pretty much everything from Cell Radio to BT to WiFi module to Screen Tech to Camera, etc. is superior in that phone.

The Focus is basically a downgraded GS1 device with WP7 on it.

There are games that lag on WP7 devices that perform without a hitch on that phone (and others) due to the superior SoC and huge RAM differential between the two.

Hardware matters a lot, not sure why people are trying this hard to discredit its impact.

I'm not sure what Nexus you're talking about, the Nexus S is a downgraded GS1 as well, the Galaxy Nesus is superior to a Focus in almost every way except it lacks an SD Card slot.

The hardware argument is loss for all current WP7 devices. The user experience is subjective and if a consumer prefers WP7 then perhaps they will choose it based on its merits as a software system. However a lot of people base percieved value on the hardware components (read: specs) and they are at a huge disadvantage there.

Yes, maybe Apollo will fix that. If Microsoft opens up things a bit more than I think Nokia will not fare as well against Samsung and HTC, though The reason why Samsung's plastic phones sell so well is because the hardware in them is fantastic. HTC faltered because even though their external build quality was good, their hardware was worse. Nokia is running the tables in WP7's eco because Microsoft locked the specs so people can just buy based on external build quality and be assured that the internal specs are basically equalized between all the vendors, anyways. The tables will turn once Microsoft starts allowing vendors like Samsung to use their own hardware in their phones.

Gotta disagree with you on this. Your average consumer, probably no one on these forums, will buy based on feel and how the software responds to their commands. If an app loads quickly, most consumers won't care if it's a single-core, quad-core or tiny midgets doing the work. Take a look at your average display and specs usually are not even mentioned. Camera pixel count, Facebook integration, GPS and that kind of thing is what's on the display material. Think about the number of smartphones reportedly being sold and look at the number of members on this forum, XDA and all the others put together and you'll see that your average consumer is pretty much uninformed except for what they see or read from ads and what they see at the store.

 

[fatclue_98]

Well, Apple sells significantly more 4Ses than Nokia sells L900s, so they probably get a better deal on components since they buy significantly more.

You can see that in full effect in the processor prices. The A5 Apple uses costs less per unit than what Nokia pays for a worse SoC. Apple gets a discount cause they buy a ton of them. I'm sure they get discounts on most of their components. Vendors like Apple's buying power, notwithstanding the fact that they can run you dry of inventory at times.

That isn't suprising and doens't signal the L900 is higher quality device internally, cause it doesn't even come close to the iPhone 4S as for quality internal components.

Let's not get into the internal components deal 'cause an iPhone has a lot of little teenie Samsung thingamajigs inside. Lest you also forget that iPhone components are probably had for next to nothing in China as well as that high-priced union labor in China.

 

[N8ter]

Yes, the average user is uninformed.

But one thing they're informed about is better specs = better device. The experience on the device is another thing but WP7 has not really caught up with users despite the phones being sprinkled everywhere in AT&T stores. They even have one display with Titan/Focus/Flash/etc. between the iPhone 4/3GS and 4S here, but no one ever looks at them.

Hear normal people talk in those stores all the time about specs. They care about that. They aren't sheep, and they see the commercials hyping the specs as well.

 

[selfcreation]

WP runs smother on Single core then android does on Dual-core....that's a know fact .
OS build quality makes a HUGE difference on overall performance of a Phone.

so yeah MY focus is Much better and reliable then the GS2 ... not talking about over all function but the specs... ( I own both a GS1 and GS2 , I still take my focus every where I go )

games that came out on Android ONCE they had dual-core (cause they needed it to run that specific game ) the same games are now on WP single core....running SMOTHER....

riddle me that .

 

[N8ter]

Let's not get into the internal components deal 'cause an iPhone has a lot of little teenie Samsung thingamajigs inside. Lest you also forget that iPhone components are probably had for next to nothing in China as well as that high-priced union labor in China.

You're proving my point. They got a good deal to keep costs down and margins way up. Apple licenses components from Hynix, Samsung, Sony (camera modules, IIRC, I think), Toshiba, and other companies.

They will alwyas get better deals than Nokia on components as long as their smartphones continue to outsell Nokia's 10 to one because they will always buy more up-front to satisfy their higher demand.

It's not a debate that the SoC, BT Module, DAC and other components are among best in industry. They've already done the teardown of the L900 and the conclusion was that the internals were mediocre and that's how the cost was kept under control.

 

[N8ter]

what most people dont relies is..

WP runs smother on Single core then android does on Dual-core....that's a know fact .
OS build quality makes a HUGE difference on overall performance of a Phone.

so yeah MY focus is Much better and reliable then the GS2 ... not talking about over all function but the specs...

games that came out on Android ONCE they had dual-core (cause they needed it to run that specific game ) the same games are now on WP single core....running SMOTHER....

riddle me that .

Fruit Ninja: Lag Very noticeable - xda-developers

Sorry, never lagged on my Vibrant, and I'm 100% sure it doesn't lag on a GS2.

That's not a function of the OS being bad, that's simply a function of the hardware being inferior even to 1st gen Galaxy S devices.

Not gonna respond to that other stuff since they're talking points that have been debunked over and over again. Not worth delving into.

 

[selfcreation]

Fruit Ninja: Lag Very noticeable - xda-developers

Sorry, never lagged on my Vibrant, and I'm 100% sure it doesn't lag on a GS2.

That's not a function of the OS being bad, that's simply a function of the hardware being inferior even to 1st gen Galaxy S devices.

Not gonna respond to that other stuff since they're talking points that have been debunked over and over again. Not worth delving into.

never lagged on my focus ether. but it lags on the EVo (android) ..witch has the same specs as my Wp (more or less)

so if you compare equal devices ruing more or less same specs . WP runs smother....

point being id rather pay more for less if i get a better experience .. and that is what WP is offering .

( and the fact that theses phones sale ALLOT more(androids and Iphones ), they probably get better deals on Parts. )

 

[jrdatrackstar1223]

Fruit Ninja: Lag Very noticeable - xda-developers

Sorry, never lagged on my Vibrant, and I'm 100% sure it doesn't lag on a GS2.

That's not a function of the OS being bad, that's simply a function of the hardware being inferior even to 1st gen Galaxy S devices.

Not gonna respond to that other stuff since they're talking points that have been debunked over and over again. Not worth delving into.

This is actually due to the developers not updating it to Mango to support 60fps and background-running. If they had updated it, it would be as smooth. Same with Angry Birds. You are correct, however, that the SPECS are better....way better (the GPU used in the Nexus S and first generation Galaxy devices was the SGX540 GPU...very powerful and still smashes the Scorpion GPU in our 2nd Gen windows phones...let alone the 1st generation ones).

I agree on both sides, because it is a subjective matter on what you really get the satisfaction of everyday use from. I love Windows Phone because it just flat out performs and I don't have to worry about spiked battery life, force closes, etc. HOWEVER, at the same time, I DO want better specs for device lifespan. For example: say all phones DO get the Apollo update, and because it was mentioned that this will bring native code support that means the potential for better apps. Say a game like Modern Combat 3 can now be ported over to Windows Phone; that game will run like CRAP on even 2nd gen Windows Phones because of limited hardware. Will my phone still function, be smooth and have good battery life? Of course it will, but my device will always have the chip on its back and be limited because of its internals.

It is for this reason that I am prepaid and have not purchased a Windows Phone through a contract because nothing is "future proof" enough for me. However,at the same time, having a lower spec'd phone STILL offers me nearly the same experience (minus a worse screen and camera because I have a Lumia 710) that today's higher-end devices offer. My phone is fast, fluid, and better battery than Android (my 710 is an exception, however, because battery life on THIS particular Windows Phone is good lord AWFUL). This is satisfactory for me while I wait for something that is worth signing into a 2-year contract, while I don't have to hunt for the next best device (like on Android) to have a satisfactory, smooth, stress-free experience.

 

[ninjaap]

Do you guys think it's because MS does not allow OEMs to use harware below their minimum specs? I mean there shouldn't be a reason for OEMs not to use dual cores or whatever else right? But at least they have a base hardware to go off of. And if I were an OEM I would use the cheapest to save on costs. In contrast, Android doesn't seem to have minimum specs. Therefore, it's kind of a free for all. With WP, MS sets the standard. With Android, the consumer sets the standard. With WP it's a more controlled environment for OEMs and consumers. With Android, it's kind of chaotic for OEMs and consumers.

As far as cost to the consumer goes, with Android, when a particular phone is released, the higher end speced phones are priced similar to the lower end, less performing speced phones - usually around $199 on contract. So on Android, you will either get a terrible phone or a really good phone for the same price. On the other hand, with WP, once Tango (lower end phones) is released, I imagine price points will clearly have seperation. Around $199 for high end phones and under $99 (just and example) for Tango lowered speced phones. So, unlike Android, you at least know your phone will perform as good as other WPs in the same price range.

 

[humphalump]

Spec/Price is not something WP7 is good at, however you can get a smooth device for not much that still runs the latest OS.
However that advantage is being eroded, The GSM Galaxy Nexus at $399 slaughters everything in terms of specs/price and you get ICS.

 

[mud314]

I agree with most of the posts on here...the phone runs great on the hardware, whether dated or not. I remember just a few years ago having the brand new Droid on the new hardware for the time, slowest piece of crap. Yet, it was "good" for the time? WP7 has not been out that long and I must admit, I was not thrilled with it or the specs; "After all, aren't phone duo-core now? They can't be good, how dare they!".

I tell you what I'm pissed about, you guys complaining when you are on AT&T and enjoying the best WP7 on the market, while I sit here with an iPhone 4 on VZ!!!!

Anxiously waiting for VZ to bring us some WP7 goodness.

PS: I cannot move to ATT since there is no service where I live. VZ only game in town.

 

[freestaterocker]

In the store it may have less things installed on it and then you wont get the full experience.

Not to mention WP doesn't come alive until you put your various accounts on it and the live tiles spring into action!

 

[tekhna]

Why do you guys even try to talk to this Se1fcr3ation fella? His homerism is so extreme it's not even worth it.