08-28-2012 06:08 PM
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  1. bilzkh's Avatar
    Here are my observations... Over the past 2-3 years I've seen an increasing trend among many consumers in using a supplementary device to their PC. With Apple users it's pretty simple, MacBook and iPad - with some going the next step by adding iMac. Me and my colleagues use a netbook, a notebook and PlayBooks/Android tablets/iPads - and no, we're not IT, we're public policy analysts.

    From a consumer's PoV, it seems to me that Microsoft is pushing for a similar approach here with PC users: Get a Windows RT slate and a Windows 8 Intel PC - be it ultrabook, desktop or both.

    Does MS expect people to use Metro on their laptops/desktops? Not necessarily, especially given that Metro isn't a lot of fun without touchscreen. However, the next crop of university/college students will be picking up Windows 8 PCs, and if you roll out laptops with touchscreen at mainstream prices, people will buy. Is it a bit too gimmicky? Sure it is, but that sells.

    This is what I see happening. Microsoft will push Windows RT as a simple slate comparable to the iPad experience, and tie its optimal use with a proper Intel based Windows 8 PC. Meaning, we'll see some new ecosystem fun between RT and Intel based platforms alongside Apollo handsets. Windows RT systems may be sold at a cheaper rate, perhaps some really low end models will be tied into Apollo or Windows 8 PC sales, who knows. RT might even replace netbooks.

    Next year I'm planning to buy a Windows RT slate as well as a proper Windows 8 ultrabook, and if finances allow, maybe even a larger quad-core Windows 8 laptop to serve as a media server.
    Last edited by bilzkh; 05-13-2012 at 04:16 PM.
    05-13-2012 04:10 PM
  2. tekhna's Avatar
    Here are my observations... Over the past 2-3 years I've seen an increasing trend among many consumers in using a supplementary device to their PC. With Apple users it's pretty simple, MacBook and iPad - with some going the next step by adding iMac. Me and my colleagues use a netbook, a notebook and PlayBooks/Android tablets/iPads - and no, we're not IT, we're public policy analysts..
    I think you're missing the mark here--there's no tablet market, there's an iPad market.
    Kindle Fire And Android Tablet Sales Have Collapsed In Wake Of New iPad | Cult of Mac

    And many of my students no longer have laptops. They have an iPad and a keyboard dock.
    05-13-2012 04:21 PM
  3. bilzkh's Avatar
    I think you're missing the mark here--there's no tablet market, there's an iPad market.
    Kindle Fire And Android Tablet Sales Have Collapsed In Wake Of New iPad | Cult of Mac

    And many of my students no longer have laptops. They have an iPad and a keyboard dock.
    I don't disagree, but my point was that people are inclined towards slates as supplementary systems - right now iPad is the only option that does it right. If RT can pull if off to a substantively better level than Android, I can see a surge for Windows in that space. Besides, given the luck OEMs are having with Android, they might be more inclined to push Windows RT as their core tablet offerings. So we might see a variety of price-points, and it seems Microsoft is pushing for a comparable experience on 8/RT to iPad with the deals it is pursuing (B&N).

    As for iPads instead of laptops, IMHO it is case-by-case...I know people who bring iPads to class/work, but they use their MacBooks/iMacs/PCs/laptops at home.
    05-13-2012 04:41 PM
  4. tekhna's Avatar
    I don't disagree, but my point was that people are inclined towards slates as supplementary systems - right now iPad is the only option that does it right. If RT can pull if off to a substantively better level than Android, I can see a surge for Windows in that space. Besides, given the luck OEMs are having with Android, they might be more inclined to push Windows RT as their core tablet offerings. So we might see a variety of price-points, and it seems Microsoft is pushing for a comparable experience on 8/RT to iPad with the deals it is pursuing (B&N).

    As for iPads instead of laptops, IMHO it is case-by-case...I know people who bring iPads to class/work, but they use their MacBooks/iMacs/PCs/laptops at home.
    There's nothing wrong with Android tablets, there's just not a market for them. Apple is literally the market. I could see W8 succeeding here because it's more iPad-like than Android (grid of tiles instead of grid of icons) but it's going to be a really uphill battle.
    There's no reason to upgrade to Windows 8; Windows 7 is pimptastic (and I say this as die-hard OS X user), and people hate change. I like W8, I've played with it a bit in Parallels, but lord knows I don't want to have to teach my mom how to use her computer agan.
    05-13-2012 05:10 PM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I also do not see businesses adopting Windows 8 on desktops any time soon. There is legacy software that needs to be run, and no company wants to teach its employees how to use their computers again either.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    05-13-2012 05:19 PM
  6. N8ter's Avatar
    Vista was terrible even with 4GB RAM. I ditched it the day 7 was released on one box. Another old box that had XP is now a Linux box.

    The best way to try Windows 8 consumer preview is in a virtual machine.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    Vista ran like a Pro on my 2004 HP P4 2.8Ghz box with 2GB DDR400 RAM and an AGP 8x Radeon 9550 GPU; so, either you're blowing it out of proportion or you simply don't know what you're talking about. Especially after the service packs (which you should have had if you ditched it at 7 release), Vista wasn't even close to bad. Most of the Vista Negativity was mostly media hype and OEMs shipping underpowered machines (not enough RAM, old CPUs (Celerons, seriously?), crap integrated graphics with shared memory on top of Low installed RAM, etc.).

    I used to game on that PC, and just the game client took 500MB RAM and the computer never had any performance issues. I later put Windows 7 on it and performance seemed pretty much the same to me (computer shipped with XP, obviously). Personally I preferred the Vista Color Scheme and integrated apps to this Live Essentials Mess we have to bolt onto Windows 7.
    05-13-2012 05:35 PM
  7. N8ter's Avatar
    Not wise to knock something when we don't know how it fully works yet. That's the biggest mistake people made and still are making about WP.
    I've already tried the preview (on a real PC, not in a VM). I hate it. It will only give credibility to all the fun Mac-using friends make of me, since I'm like the only one still using Windows in my circle of friends these days. Maybe time to make that jump, just can't agree with Apple's lulz-worthy pricing for their hardware... ...

    I can see myself using it on a tablet, but that start screen is a show-stopper on desktop never mind using it on a Laptop with a touchpad is masochistic...

    It's clear they spend most of their time on the Mobile (Tablet) aspects and yes the Desktop Aspects did benefit quite a bit from that (performance and under-the-hood improvements). Maybe at Windows 9 they will have bridged the gap. Right now it's a jarring experience.

    I also don't like the way Metro apps are not windowed and take over 3/4 of your screen (if you pin one to the side).

    100% makes sense for a tablet or even a smartphone with a large screen, high resolution in landscape. Absolutely pathetic usability for multi-taskers on a desktop/notebook PC.
    05-13-2012 05:42 PM
  8. trivor's Avatar
    I'm really looking forward to Win RT - the question is can MS and it's partners make a 10.0" tablet at the $399 price point that's stable and runs smooth. Based the competition (the iPad 2 sets one bar at $399 (16 GB) and the Android Competitor is the Asus Transformer TF300 (1280X800 IPS Ice Cream Sandwich Tegra 3, 1 GB DDR3, 32 GB with Micro SD expansion). The entry level Win RT needs to match/exceed these two tablets to even get a foot in the door - really praying they can do it - I'm ready for a tablet - Android doesn't quite do it (even though I have an Android phone) and I hate getting into the Apple ecosystem. The other question is when will actual hardware be out - will we be able to get a Win RT (or a full Win 8 tablet - Atom with 4 GB, 32 GB storage, 10" display for $599?). Just thinking.
    05-13-2012 06:22 PM
  9. socialcarpet's Avatar
    People are missing the point here. It's like everyone always has to make this about " ME ". It's not always about you. It doesn't matter what you think of Windows 8 on a desktop as a power user. For Windows Phone and Windows 8 to succeed it has to be accepted by the casual user. Windows is targeted at a much broader, more diverse audience but it's the casual user that drives marketshare. It doesn't matter what you the power user thinks. It's not about you at the end of the day. Power users are the minority
    Exactly.

    I don't know why so many people can't seem to grasp this concept.

    Personally I've always felt the Start menu was flawed at best. The Mac OS X Dock is much easier to work with IMO. Windows 7 improve things somewhat...

    Anyway, most of the people who don't like Metro seem to be old school die hard Windows people who are used to the Start Menu paradigm. The truth is, IMO, if you try to be objective, the Metro UI launcher is a much easier and quicker way to view information quickly and click to what you want without scrolling through Start button sub-menus full of clutter. Just like the phone with Live Tiles, you can quickly get information at a glance.

    And for the guy talking about smudging his 23" screen... You don't need a touch screen to make use of the Metro launcher screen, a mouse works just fine.

    I may be a little biased because I've never been much of a fan of Windows, but I'm surprised how much resistance this seems to be getting. If you need the Start button, it's still there, and I'm sure there will even be ways to easily disable the Metro launch if you really want to. They will probably even have gray and blue Windows 95 themes with ugly beveled Windows and no anti-aliasing for the luddites who long for the days when Windows was even uglier and less user-friendly. :lol:

    For me, Windows 7 was the first version of Windows I didn't hate and I look forward to seeing Microsoft move further and further away from the dark ages.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    05-13-2012 06:37 PM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I still doubt if I'll buy Windows 8. I'm more inclined to keep Windows 7 and Office 2010 and use mainly Linux. I'm not a gamer, so there isn't much I do that requires Windows.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    05-13-2012 06:54 PM
  11. eric12341's Avatar
    I've already tried the preview (on a real PC, not in a VM). I hate it. It will only give credibility to all the fun Mac-using friends make of me, since I'm like the only one still using Windows in my circle of friends these days. Maybe time to make that jump, just can't agree with Apple's lulz-worthy pricing for their hardware... ...

    I can see myself using it on a tablet, but that start screen is a show-stopper on desktop never mind using it on a Laptop with a touchpad is masochistic...

    It's clear they spend most of their time on the Mobile (Tablet) aspects and yes the Desktop Aspects did benefit quite a bit from that (performance and under-the-hood improvements). Maybe at Windows 9 they will have bridged the gap. Right now it's a jarring experience.

    I also don't like the way Metro apps are not windowed and take over 3/4 of your screen (if you pin one to the side).

    100% makes sense for a tablet or even a smartphone with a large screen, high resolution in landscape. Absolutely pathetic usability for multi-taskers on a desktop/notebook PC.
    It's a beta, so its still incomplete in that aspect, it'll work fine once you actually are willing to get use to it and learn it (which seems unlikely so far). It will be widely accepted among the public once it's released.
    05-13-2012 08:01 PM
  12. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    It's a beta, so its still incomplete in that aspect, it'll work fine once you actually are willing to get use to it and learn it (which seems unlikely so far). It will be widely accepted among the public once it's released.
    One really cannot tell if the public will accept Windows 8 on desktops and laptops. Vista was a failure in terms of general acceptance. Microsoft has failed in the past. Remember ME and Bob?
    05-13-2012 08:38 PM
  13. tekhna's Avatar
    One really cannot tell if the public will accept Windows 8 on desktops and laptops. Vista was a failure in terms of general acceptance. Microsoft has failed in the past. Remember ME and Bob?
    Hey! Don't knock MS Bob!
    05-13-2012 08:54 PM
  14. socialcarpet's Avatar
    One really cannot tell if the public will accept Windows 8 on desktops and laptops. Vista was a failure in terms of general acceptance. Microsoft has failed in the past. Remember ME and Bob?
    Vista was a bloated mess that ran slow on anything other than a fast brand-new machine.

    Me and Bob are relics of Microsoft's dorky and inept past not worth mentioning.

    Every indication is that Windows 8 boots and runs even fast than Windows 7 does and is even more user friendly. I think it will be popular with consumers once they get a taste of it on all the new machines that will be coming with it. The "power users" will groan about Metro for a little while and then follow along once they see all the other things that Windows 8 will do better. Enterprise market is still dragging themselves off of XP and into Windows 7 so most of them won't see Windows 8 until 2027 at the rate they go.
    05-13-2012 09:20 PM
  15. smapor's Avatar
    I also do not see businesses adopting Windows 8 on desktops any time soon. There is legacy software that needs to be run, and no company wants to teach its employees how to use their computers again either.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

    I hate to say it to you, but I installed quite a bit of legacy apps that work on Windows 7 and it basically installed all on Windows 8. One of the main reasons why the past OS always used to be bloated, Microsoft spent a lot of time making sure devices designed for Legacy Windows was still working (or at least majority of them). Their x86 Windows 8 will continue to support legacy applications (or as much of it as possible). While their ARM version won't be legacy compliant (yes they already stated this) and it makes sense.

    Business will adopt X86 version of Windows 8 and yes you can disable metro interface using Group policy to control desktops. ARM version is designed to be for new folks who don't need legacy applications and want the light portable version (ipad).

    The biggest problem they will be facing is not if people will adopt, but when. Business rely on Windows for the past 10 years, it most likely won't change because of the need to support legacy environments (we all know business won't spend millions to update legacy environments). Business have that mentality, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

    For consumers, the PC market ain't going away and vendors will continue to sell the latest OS.

    What will be interesting is if Microsoft and its hardware partners can truly capture the ability to use a device like the Asus Transformer for its Windows 8 tablet (make the tablet portion slicker and ligher). I think the hardware vendors like HP/Dell/Lenova will be ready to adapt to this. Lets face its the OEM PC makers do not want to see Apple start to gain some big foothold in the PC area.
    Last edited by smapor; 05-13-2012 at 09:42 PM.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-13-2012 09:37 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    If Microsoft does force hardware vendors to prohibit dual-booting another OS other than Windows 8, I will not purchase Windows 8. I probably run Linux 75% of the time now. If I get a new PC, it must have the ability to run Linux. There needs to be a way to disable secure boot, or else I won't buy Windows 8.

    Same with tablets. If IE is the only browser allowed on Windows RT tablets, I won't buy one. I don't even use IE on my desktop. My default browser is Opera, and I also run Firefox and Chrome.
    05-13-2012 09:44 PM
  17. smapor's Avatar
    Vista was a bloated mess that ran slow on anything other than a fast brand-new machine.

    Me and Bob are relics of Microsoft's dorky and inept past not worth mentioning.

    Every indication is that Windows 8 boots and runs even fast than Windows 7 does and is even more user friendly. I think it will be popular with consumers once they get a taste of it on all the new machines that will be coming with it. The "power users" will groan about Metro for a little while and then follow along once they see all the other things that Windows 8 will do better. Enterprise market is still dragging themselves off of XP and into Windows 7 so most of them won't see Windows 8 until 2027 at the rate they go.
    Windows 8 on my Dell Latitude E6400 boots Windows 8 in 20 seconds. Yes you can boot right into a desktop version (MS plans on allowing folks to disable the Metro)

    I think the Enterprise is going to pick this up faster in some areas (executives and savvy folks). And we all know Executives need to be happy, because as long as they have the latest technology IT won't be viewed as Slow.
    05-13-2012 09:48 PM
  18. smapor's Avatar
    If Microsoft does force hardware vendors to prohibit dual-booting another OS other than Windows 8, I will not purchase Windows 8. I probably run Linux 75% of the time now. If I get a new PC, it must have the ability to run Linux. There needs to be a way to disable secure boot, or else I won't buy Windows 8.

    Same with tablets. If IE is the only browser allowed on Windows RT tablets, I won't buy one. I don't even use IE on my desktop. My default browser is Opera, and I also run Firefox and Chrome.

    Virtual PC.....I don't understand the point of dual booting these days....

    Maybe you missed the news Firefox is making a metro Browser for Windows 8..........they need to...why because its the PC market and MS dominates this field.
    05-13-2012 10:01 PM
  19. tekhna's Avatar
    Virtual PC.....I don't understand the point of dual booting these days....

    Maybe you missed the news Firefox is making a metro Browser for Windows 8..........they need to...why because its the PC market and MS dominates this field.
    Firefox is losing ground to Chrome, more like.

    05-13-2012 10:09 PM
  20. smapor's Avatar
    Firefox is losing ground to Chrome, more like.
    Ya last year I believe. Google will make one for Windows 8, they really dont have a choice unless 90% of desktop users move to there Chrome OS (which I got one for testing)...nobody is moving there anytime soon. Google still wants the advertising dollars, they won't ignore the x86 Windows Market.
    05-13-2012 10:14 PM
  21. tekhna's Avatar
    Ya last year I believe. Google will make one for Windows 8, they really dont have a choice unless 90% of desktop users move to there Chrome OS (which I got one for testing)...nobody is moving there anytime soon. Google still wants the advertising dollars, they won't ignore the x86 Windows Market.
    Sure, but they won't bother with a metro app, in all probability. Firefox has to, in a desperate attempt to keep the marketshare they have.
    05-13-2012 10:17 PM
  22. smapor's Avatar
    Sure, but they won't bother with a metro app, in all probability. Firefox has to, in a desperate attempt to keep the marketshare they have.

    Have you seen the IE metro app......it's freaking nice....be a shame if google didn't try on windows 8, when HP, Dell, Lenova are selling hardware :)

    Unless we start seeing HTC, Samsung laptops.....google will make one for windows 8.
    05-13-2012 10:22 PM
  23. eric12341's Avatar
    If Microsoft does force hardware vendors to prohibit dual-booting another OS other than Windows 8, I will not purchase Windows 8. I probably run Linux 75% of the time now. If I get a new PC, it must have the ability to run Linux. There needs to be a way to disable secure boot, or else I won't buy Windows 8.

    Same with tablets. If IE is the only browser allowed on Windows RT tablets, I won't buy one. I don't even use IE on my desktop. My default browser is Opera, and I also run Firefox and Chrome.
    I really hate to see people bash IE, especially since everything wrong with it was fixed with IE9, what exactly is wrong with it? It passes 100% on the standards test.
    JD Miles likes this.
    05-13-2012 10:25 PM
  24. smapor's Avatar
    I really hate to see people bash IE, especially since everything wrong with it was fixed with IE9, what exactly is wrong with it? It passes 100% on the standards test.
    Still stuck with IE6

    :)
    05-13-2012 10:28 PM
  25. tekhna's Avatar
    I really hate to see people bash IE, especially since everything wrong with it was fixed with IE9, what exactly is wrong with it? It passes 100% on the standards test.
    There's nothing wrong with IE. Just like there's nothing wrong with WP. But they've been saddled with the legacies of IE 6 and WM.
    eric12341 likes this.
    05-13-2012 10:29 PM
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