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06-10-2012 02:14 AM
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  1. jabtano's Avatar
    I'm on T-MO three HD7 and two Lumia 710's I would love to see some sort of high end device Lumia 900 Titian II. If they don't get any high end device by the time WP8 comes out then I would think of changing the family plan on over to AT&T.
    05-21-2012 07:56 AM
  2. eric12341's Avatar
    You know everyone slams Verizon for high prices but it's the same argument everyone is using here - you get what you pay for. While some carriers have as good or even better coverage in some areas overall Verizon has the best network for voice and most reliable for data (3G is slow - around 1-2 Mbits/sec - good enough for streaming and e-mail, little slow on the web). In my home area (rural) it is the best by a large margin and when I travel I always have better coverage than my colleagues. I would love to switch to a cheaper plan on T-Mo - not happening. So for those of you happy on T-Mo or ATT (or even Sprint) or some kind of pre-paid that's awesome that you can save some money. Unless some other network comes up to Verizon's network in coverage/service I will be staying with Verizon and if MS can't get a WP8 LTE/CDMA device going I'll continue being an Android person (don't "get" the iPhone). And by the way, all the Android Hate by lots of people on here and by Paul Thurrotte doesn't compute with my experience - MS is going to have to win my business and just putting a mediocre WP8 device on Verizon (if Verizon even carries it) is not going to be enough - not that wowed by Windows Phone. Also, the longer I'm on Android the less likely I am to switch (I've already got a sizable investment in Google Music and Android Apps).
    Feel better now bro?
    05-21-2012 01:02 PM
  3. Los's Avatar
    Wow, are you people serious about calling T-Mo customers cheap and/or unable to budget?

    I use T-Mo because it delivers the best value to me at the lowest cost, THAT'S basic economics for those of you playing along at home. Does this mean I somehow deserve less of a phone? I should think not.

    I recognize the business reasons why T-Mo may not have the highest end WPs, but to jump to the conclusion that T-Mo users are somehow undeserving because we pay less for our plans is idiotic. I buy my phones outright and use month to month because it affords me the most control over my hardware and services while being untethered to any one carrier. AT&T's monthly plans are horrifically over-priced for the services they provide.

    So, I ask, who is the more astute budgeter: the AT&T customer who is locked into a contract paying $80-$100/month or the T-Mo customer off-contract paying $30-$50/month for over twice the data?

    ...more to the point of this thread though, I agree I'd really love to see a higher end WP on T-Mo. I've got the 710, but I liked the 800/900 design so much I bought the cyan N9 too just so I could use a phone with that look with T-Mo's HSPA+. Here's to hoping for a great Apollo device later, or even just accelerated 1900MHz refarming so we can use the 800/900 on HSPA+.

    Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express

    This is a stupid argument. Come back to me when T-Mobile has over 100 million people on their network, then let's see if they can manage their network and offer the same data. Face it, T-Mobile is too small compared to AT&T. The only reason why Sprint and T-Mobile can even offer those type of data plans is cause they don't have as many people on their network as Verizon and AT&T. It becomes more expensive to maintain a network with that many people on it. Let's not compare their little 33 million people to AT&T's 100+ million.

    At the end of the day, T-Mobile does appeal to people who can't afford premium rates. Do they sell high end phones? sure but they don't sell at a higher rate than AT&T cause AT&T has almost 4x more people. T-Mobile could barely sell the HD7, that's probably the reason they went low end this time. Just to be on the safe side cause most of their customers are either still on feature phones or just getting into smartphones. Once Windows Phone becomes more popular and sell more, they'll take their chances with high end phones. They couldn't even sell the HD7. Most people I speak to who own a HD7 only got it cause T-Mobile was giving it away for free. That was the only way they were gonna get rid of them
    05-21-2012 02:08 PM
  4. maj71303's Avatar
    Well me and the wife already exited this weekend from T-Mobile to AT&T. Couldn't stand the lack of coverage and the definite lack of a good variety of phones. The coverage issue is a big problem as we did roam a bit of network and the last straw is when they made the new data roaming agreement. Capping people off at 100MB data roaming when your network is pretty substandard most places and you have to roam to maintain service when traveling a lot just sucks. The roaming data cap did them in for us.

    The lack of phones is also a big problem. I don't buy subsidized phones from them I buy my own outright(helps avoid contracts). Verizon & AT&T are just sucking up all the good phones and T-Mobile is just standing there with a dumb look on its face. Some on here are right they are a good value and have great plans but that also dictates the phones they offer. They are a value and budget carrier that caters to those types of customers, so they get one or two premier phones every blue moon.

    Since me and the wife get a Dept. of army discount it doesn't affect us to much price wise to change carriers. The is no value left using T-Mobile we you have the following to contend with.

    1. if you travel a lot you will find a good amount of places where T-Mobile has no service and you roam.
    2. The new Domestic data roaming cap is now a big deal breaker.
    3. Lack of a good variety of top end phones.
    4. They need to expand there network to cover more places.


    The refarming will help the phone issue just a bit, but if the phone is a feature release you can't unlock it for a while to use on T-Mobile or vice versa for a good while. The coverage though and the data roaming cap just stings when T-Mobile knows there network just is not in a lot of places. When the wife came to me because her data roaming on a trip hit the cap and her data roaming was shut off for the rest of the billing cycle, I knew our time with T-Mobile had come to an end.

    You give some things up for that perceived value of lower cost plans but we are paying the same cost for better no contract phones, better coverage, 4G + LTE, and don't roam at all now. I don't know about some of you guys but I can and will pay more for the better positives we get now. Value is only so good till you see some of the things you give up for that Value. T-Mobile showed us that the value they give has drawbacks associated with it.
    Last edited by maj71303; 05-21-2012 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Stand to
    05-21-2012 04:57 PM
  5. Los's Avatar
    You give some things up for that perceived value of lower cost plans but we are paying the same cost for better no contract phones, better coverage, 4G + LTE, and don't roam at all now. I don't know about some of you guys but I can and will pay more for the better positives we get now. Value is only so good till you see some of the things you give up for that Value. T-Mobile showed us that the value they give has drawbacks associated with it.
    Exactly and people here want to knock AT&T, yet when they roam, they piggyback on AT&T's network. So without AT&T most of you wouldn't have a signal when your off coverage
    05-21-2012 05:15 PM
  6. maj71303's Avatar
    Exactly and people here want to knock AT&T, yet when they roam, they piggyback on AT&T's network. So without AT&T most of you wouldn't have a signal when your off coverage
    Yep i'm not bashing T-Mobile because they have value to consumers, but for some don't try to say they don't have some minuses because all four wireless companies do. Even though AT&T & Verizon are more expensive but you get some more positives with that high cost to go with the negatives.

    Same with T-Mobile and sprint. They have there positives but there are some negatives as well. It is up to the consumer to make the choice and weigh those negatives & positives. Me and the wife did and AT&T fits us because the positives of other features and phones outweigh the negatives of the higher plan cost.

    The motto of a "fool and his money are soon parted" is good. But some of you need to remember " you get what you pay for". You may cheap out one time two many and it bites you in the arse. For me and the wife we got bit. We will now on look really close at the drawbacks and hidden stipulations to these value plans and companies.
    05-21-2012 05:39 PM
  7. eric12341's Avatar
    Well me and the wife already exited this weekend from T-Mobile to AT&T. Couldn't stand the lack of coverage and the definite lack of a good variety of phones. The coverage issue is a big problem as we did roam a bit of network and the last straw is when they made the new data roaming agreement. Capping people off at 100MB data roaming when your network is pretty substandard most places and you have to roam to maintain service when traveling a lot just sucks. The roaming data cap did them in for us.

    The lack of phones is also a big problem. I don't buy subsidized phones from them I buy my own outright(helps avoid contracts). Verizon & AT&T are just sucking up all the good phones and T-Mobile is just standing there with a dumb look on its face. Some on here are right they are a good value and have great plans but that also dictates the phones they offer. They are a value and budget carrier that caters to those types of customers, so they get one or two premier phones every blue moon.

    Since me and the wife get a Dept. of army discount it doesn't affect us to much price wise to change carriers. The is no value left using T-Mobile we you have the following to contend with.

    1. if you travel a lot you will find a good amount of places where T-Mobile has no service and you roam.
    2. The new Domestic data roaming cap is now a big deal breaker.
    3. Lack of a good variety of top end phones.
    4. They need to expand there network to cover more places.


    The refarming will help the phone issue just a bit, but if the phone is a feature release you can't unlock it for a while to use on T-Mobile or vice versa for a good while. The coverage though and the data roaming cap just stings when T-Mobile knows there network just is not in a lot of places. When the wife came to me because her data roaming on a trip hit the cap and her data roaming was shut off for the rest of the billing cycle, I knew our time with T-Mobile had come to an end.

    You give some things up for that perceived value of lower cost plans but we are paying the same cost for better no contract phones, better coverage, 4G + LTE, and don't roam at all now. I don't know about some of you guys but I can and will pay more for the better positives we get now. Value is only so good till you see some of the things you give up for that Value. T-Mobile showed us that the value they give has drawbacks associated with it.
    Is this becoming the official WPCentral T-mobile bash thread or what?

    As if T-mobile's coverage will stay the way it is forever,it's not. As part of the refarming coverage will be expanded as well. As far as phones that's far from the truth, T-mobile gets plenty of high end android phones and has gotten a high end WP in the first Gen. I have no doubts that T-mobile will deliver a high end phone when wp8 comes along.plus T-mobile also has a much better track record at pushing out updates, much better than the other carriers not just for WP but for other OSes too.
    05-22-2012 12:33 AM
  8. cckgz4's Avatar
    I had to leave T-Mo/Simple Mobile. The coverage was unstable
    05-22-2012 04:26 AM
  9. Los's Avatar
    Is this becoming the official WPCentral T-mobile bash thread or what?

    As if T-mobile's coverage will stay the way it is forever,it's not. As part of the refarming coverage will be expanded as well. As far as phones that's far from the truth, T-mobile gets plenty of high end android phones and has gotten a high end WP in the first Gen. I have no doubts that T-mobile will deliver a high end phone when wp8 comes along.plus T-mobile also has a much better track record at pushing out updates, much better than the other carriers not just for WP but for other OSes too.
    This isn't about bashing t-mobile. It just is what it is. They can refarm all they want. They still are the smallest of the big 4. They still are a budget carrier. Most of the people on their network either still on feature phones or use low end smartphones. That's their target market. Just cause they might offer a few high end phones it doesn't mean they sell well. Whatever t-mobile has, AT&T has plus more. 33 million people isn't enough for high end phones to sell like they do on a carrier with over 100 million people who can afford alittle more. Once people understand that and accept it then we wouldn't be having this discussion
    05-22-2012 05:09 AM
  10. maj71303's Avatar
    Is this becoming the official WPCentral T-mobile bash thread or what?

    As if T-mobile's coverage will stay the way it is forever,it's not. As part of the refarming coverage will be expanded as well. As far as phones that's far from the truth, T-mobile gets plenty of high end android phones and has gotten a high end WP in the first Gen. I have no doubts that T-mobile will deliver a high end phone when wp8 comes along.plus T-mobile also has a much better track record at pushing out updates, much better than the other carriers not just for WP but for other OSes too.


    Sorry but I'm not bashing T-Mobile. The refarming will take time and even then not all areas will be getting it based on their spectrum holdings. If you are in a T-Mobile area that has good coverage then fine. If you are in an area that has finicky coverage and you roam a good deal then it won't be fine.

    They lost a good bit of postpaid customers I'm betting because of the points I made. The new data roaming was probably a major factor in why a lot of people left. They have good plans that not a debate. But to have subpar coverage related to the other 3 carriers and to then put a limit on data roaming when your coverage is like that........that is insane.

    The other 3 have data roaming limits as well but they have the network coverage to back that up. Some here seem to like to sugar coat some of T-mobiles negatives to make them look better than what they really are......which is indeed a budget/value carrier.

    As far as high end phones theirs no need to debate because sales numbers show it all. Not to mention the product lines of the others that T-Mobile is not selling a lot of high end phones. Every carrier will most likely drop high end WP8 phones as well so T-Mobile won't be the only one. Updates depends on phone make and carrier to deliver. Sometimes it goes right and sometimes there are problems.

    T-Mobile has a good track record of updates to phones that sell well. But a bad record of selling phones with numerous problems. The LG g2x rings a bell, the worst high end phone ever.

    Point I'm making is don't just steer people to one carrier based off perceived value without telling the bad with the good. Give people the whole story of these carriers and let them make the decision.

    T-Mobile is pushed a lot in these forums. The noobs and others that come here asking question don't get full answers just half truths that don't help there decisions. All 4 have there pro's and con's and there is no need to sugar coat none of them.


    Just because a certain carrier is a good fit for you in your area doesn't mean they are good for everyone else.
    05-22-2012 10:27 AM
  11. mtmjr90's Avatar
    My only point in this was to point out false logic. I recognize that T-Mo is a budget carrier, by definition - they focus their marketing on and target a lower end consumer with low prices. Be that as it may, you cannot turn around and make the claim that all T-Mo customers are low budget, low income customers...it's just not true.

    I subscribe to what they tell people over at Android Central about carriers - use the one that's best for you in and around your area since that's where 95% of people spend 95% of their time. For me, T-Mo works great where I live, so to pay more than twice as much for half the data and no messaging makes no sense.

    As a customer who is willing to shell out $500-$600 for a new, high end device off-contract, I hope, just like the OP, that we will see one on T-Mo, particularly when Apollo debuts. If not, then I hope the reframing efforts will be finished sooner rather than later so I can use an AT&T/global high end device on the HSPA+ network. This is precisely why I do off-contract month-to-month, so that I am not limited to just the phones/service plans on the carrier I happen to be using.
    05-22-2012 11:58 AM
  12. eric12341's Avatar
    This isn't about bashing t-mobile. It just is what it is. They can refarm all they want. They still are the smallest of the big 4. They still are a budget carrier. Most of the people on their network either still on feature phones or use low end smartphones. That's their target market. Just cause they might offer a few high end phones it doesn't mean they sell well. Whatever t-mobile has, AT&T has plus more. 33 million people isn't enough for high end phones to sell like they do on a carrier with over 100 million people who can afford alittle more. Once people understand that and accept it then we wouldn't be having this discussion
    4th place, so what? Big deal,the feature phone market isn't their target because they aren't selling any in the stores anymore. To say they only sell low end phones and feature phones to value customers is absolutely ridiculous. Boost,Virgin (brands of sprint) have far more value low end phones than T-mobile does and they don't even have the freedom to pick whatever phone they want like they will with T-mobile. The SGS2 and HTC amaze were their highest selling phones and they're high end, they will have one for WP8 they were rumored to be testing one along with VZ. USCC got high prices now too and the only reason their network is the way it is,is because of their roaming agreement with VZ. Their coverage footprint was originally smaller than T-mobile and their customer base is smaller than T-mobile. They are a value carrier as well only for people who just talk and text which is still the majority of their customers but if one wants a smartphone their prices are almost as high as AT&T and VZ. Where's the logic there?
    Sorry but I'm not bashing T-Mobile. The refarming will take time and even then not all areas will be getting it based on their spectrum holdings. If you are in a T-Mobile area that has good coverage then fine. If you are in an area that has finicky coverage and you roam a good deal then it won't be fine.

    They lost a good bit of postpaid customers I'm betting because of the points I made. The new data roaming was probably a major factor in why a lot of people left. They have good plans that not a debate. But to have subpar coverage related to the other 3 carriers and to then put a limit on data roaming when your coverage is like that........that is insane.

    The other 3 have data roaming limits as well but they have the network coverage to back that up. Some here seem to like to sugar coat some of T-mobiles negatives to make them look better than what they really are......which is indeed a budget/value carrier.

    As far as high end phones theirs no need to debate because sales numbers show it all. Not to mention the product lines of the others that T-Mobile is not selling a lot of high end phones. Every carrier will most likely drop high end WP8 phones as well so T-Mobile won't be the only one. Updates depends on phone make and carrier to deliver. Sometimes it goes right and sometimes there are problems.

    T-Mobile has a good track record of updates to phones that sell well. But a bad record of selling phones with numerous problems. The LG g2x rings a bell, the worst high end phone ever.

    Point I'm making is don't just steer people to one carrier based off perceived value without telling the bad with the good. Give people the whole story of these carriers and let them make the decision.

    T-Mobile is pushed a lot in these forums. The noobs and others that come here asking question don't get full answers just half truths that don't help there decisions. All 4 have there pro's and con's and there is no need to sugar coat none of them.


    Just because a certain carrier is a good fit for you in your area doesn't mean they are good for everyone else.

    They didn't lose customers because of roaming they lost customers because of the AT&T buyout and because they don't have the iPhone. Once the refarming takes effect people will come back.
    05-22-2012 01:05 PM
  13. maj71303's Avatar
    My only point in this was to point out false logic. I recognize that T-Mo is a budget carrier, by definition - they focus their marketing on and target a lower end consumer with low prices. Be that as it may, you cannot turn around and make the claim that all T-Mo customers are low budget, low income customers...it's just not true.

    I subscribe to what they tell people over at Android Central about carriers - use the one that's best for you in and around your area since that's where 95% of people spend 95% of their time. For me, T-Mo works great where I live, so to pay more than twice as much for half the data and no messaging makes no sense.

    As a customer who is willing to shell out $500-$600 for a new, high end device off-contract, I hope, just like the OP, that we will see one on T-Mo, particularly when Apollo debuts. If not, then I hope the reframing efforts will be finished sooner rather than later so I can use an AT&T/global high end device on the HSPA+ network. This is precisely why I do off-contract month-to-month, so that I am not limited to just the phones/service plans on the carrier I happen to be using.

    I know I haven't referred to people that use T-Mobile as low budget, I have just stated like you just did that customers T-Mobile target with there service. Even I know not all people or low budget on T-Mobile. That's why I said if it works great for you that's good.

    But don't flame people that state the obvious con's that do exist on T-Mobile and all other carriers. That's the problem when people try there best to say what others state as false when it comes to some of the problems they encounter with these carriers.

    I don't agree with Los stating that T-Mobile is for cheap people because it is not. But at the same time the economics for getting the better phones is not in t-mobiles favor. These carriers are out to make money and so are the phone manufacturers. The phone manufacturers make deals with the carriers to get the best profit they can. As a carrier if you are not willing to really push for sales of there phones they won't make deals to have those phones sold on that carrier. That's why you see sprint and Verizon don't carry any of the latest WP's.

    Also WP's have yet to reach a volume point that makes some carriers want to carry them. AT&T, T-Mobile carries them for particular reasons. AT&t especially does it because they want to be able to diversify there lineup and as a big wedge to have leverage against Apple & Google. They needed the leverage to push back against the two big platforms. Verizon is slowly thinking the same.

    I hope the best for T-Mobile but I want to use my phone now...not later after a spectrum refarming, when they decide to get a better variety of phones, or expand there coverage network with new towers. Me and the wife wanted to have good phones with good networks to use them on. Some are satisfied with T-Mobile but we were not. We were long time customers, but it gets to a point where we are tired of the waiting and issues.

    We decided we were better served by someone else and are happy. Cost of plans are irrelevant because we buy our phones unsubsidized and get government discounts on service with all 4 carriers. The cost of our family service is less with AT&T as it was with T-Mobile with roughly the same options. At least now we don't have to have a separate data plan for each line.

    Be like we agree on to each it's own. We hope that T-Mobile executes their plans but we refused to wait around till they do.
    05-22-2012 01:05 PM
  14. maj71303's Avatar
    4th place, so what? Big deal,the feature phone market isn't their target because they aren't selling any in the stores anymore. To say they only sell low end phones and feature phones to value customers is absolutely ridiculous. Boost,Virgin (brands of sprint) have far more value low end phones than T-mobile does and they don't even have the freedom to pick whatever phone they want like they will with T-mobile. The SGS2 and HTC amaze were their highest selling phones and they're high end, they will have one for WP8 they were rumored to be testing one along with VZ. USCC got high prices now too and the only reason their network is the way it is,is because of their roaming agreement with VZ. Their coverage footprint was originally smaller than T-mobile and their customer base is smaller than T-mobile. They are a value carrier as well only for people who just talk and text which is still the majority of their customers but if one wants a smartphone their prices are almost as high as AT&T and VZ. Where's the logic there?



    They didn't lose customers because of roaming they lost customers because of the AT&T buyout and because they don't have the iPhone. Once the refarming takes effect people will come back.
    The buyout did put a dent in them but that deal was denied since December 2011. So your telling me 5 months later after it was shot down customers are still fleeing T-Mobile. So your saying T-Mobile didn't have any backup plans. We can also give the IPhone excuse a rest. Everyone doesn't want an IPhone and if they did T-Mobile would have been dead after sprint got it.

    The data roaming cap did indeed break the camels back for a lot of customers and after that announcement they reported a big quarterly loss of postpaid customers. Customers will be locked in with other carriers about time they finish their refarming in my opinion.

    I hope they do get it done but We have left them because we refuse to keep waiting till they get there act together.
    05-22-2012 01:27 PM
  15. scottcraft's Avatar
    The bottom line with any cell company is the coverage. It doesn't matter how great their plans are if they don't work in the area you are at most of the time. T-Mobile looks to have solid phones to me. Don't get me wrong, if your looking for a high-end WP like the Titan 2 or Lumia they don't have that, but what they do offer is better than Verizon. If their coverage is solid where you're at and you can get their 4G I think T-Mobile is the way to go.
    05-22-2012 01:33 PM
  16. Los's Avatar
    Again, people are ignoring the fact that the only reason why t-mobile can give you that value cause they don't have that many people on their network. It's not as expensive to maintain a network with 33 million people as it is to maintain one with 100+ million. Also, when your as big as Verizon and AT&T, you can't offer unlimited data to everyone cause too much people will over load the network. That's the reason AT&T and Verizon are pushing LTE as hard as they are. They are trying to get people off their overloaded 3G network. If T-Mobile ever reaches 100+ million people, let's see if they will have the same value
    05-22-2012 02:04 PM
  17. rich4A1's Avatar
    Having HD7 on T-Mobile network in a rural area, everyday (almost literally) I'm thinking about getting a Lumia 900 from AT&T, if only I win a lottery that covers the cost difference. Even dreamed about it last night. For my case the monthly cost will more than double, since I'm in a grandfather'd family plan from T-Mobile.
    05-22-2012 02:23 PM
  18. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Los, you are spreading misconceptions regarding T-Mobile.

    Again, people are ignoring the fact that the only reason why t-mobile can give you that value cause they don't have that many people on their network. It's not as expensive to maintain a network with 33 million people as it is to maintain one with 100+ million.
    This is flat out UNTRUE. As a matter of fact, it's the exact OPPOSITE.

    While it does cost more to build a larger network, there are also more paying customers; so AT&T receives proportionally more money for each person it serves. This is an extremely obvious fact.

    Furthermore, there's a commonly known concept called "Economies of Scale". It's much cheaper to buy 100 bags of Doritos than 1 bag of Doritos. In the same matter, it is much cheaper (per customer) for AT&T to service 100 million individuals than it is for T-Mobile to service 33 million customers.

    Sprint is a small carrier with service even WORSE than T-Mobile's (slower data despite "4G") and it charges roughly the same amount as the other carriers.

    The reason that T-Mobile offers more competitive rates than AT&T despite it being more expensive in reality to provide service is because
    1) It needs to attract customers to compete with the other 3 carriers
    2) Its working on a fixed capital business model. They've already paid for the infrastructure. Now it costs them the exact same amount whether they're serving 1 or 100 million consumers.
    3) It's flat out willing to accept a lower profit margin than the other carriers

    ETA:
    4)The other carriers are too busy subsidizing the iPhone. After the introduction of the Sprint iPhone, Sprint made revisions to its plans. The iPhone is a serious hole in the balance sheet.


    They couldn't even sell the HD7. Most people I speak to who own a HD7 only got it cause T-Mobile was giving it away for free. That was the only way they were gonna get rid of them
    This is wrong as well.

    First, your phone is not "free". It's "free" w/ 2yr agreement, which is really $480+. (For T-Mobile, you can directly compare the rates that they charge you if you bring your own phone onto the network and if you sign an agreement. They're literally the exact same except the 2 year contract costs X dollars more.)

    Second, all the carriers have free phone promotions all the time! This is not specific to the HD7. T-Mobile also does this for all their high end Android phones. If you honestly paid money for your smartphone (on any carrier), you are being ripped off. As a matter of fact, some carriers even PAY consumers to take a low end smartphone or they have promotions giving away a free low end phone after signing only one 2-yr agreement (BOGO).

    That the HD7 was free with contract has absolutely no reflection on its sales performance.
    Last edited by Sentimentgx4; 05-22-2012 at 03:09 PM.
    05-22-2012 02:56 PM
  19. Los's Avatar
    Seriously, listen to yourself. Do you really think T-Mobile would have went low end for 2nd gen phones if their 1st gen phones sold well? No, they'd have a reason to offer more high end Windows Phone's if they did. The fact is HD7 didn't sell well. They only got rid of them when they offered them for almost nothing. AT&T was the only carrier actually selling 1st gen phones, they even bragged about selling more WP phones than any other carrier and said they are the premiere WP carrier. That is the reason why AT&T is more confident than other carriers to offer more Windows Phones while the others are either still on the fence or not supporting it at all due to low 1st gen sales

    As far AT&T's size and cost to operate, I still stand by what I said
    05-22-2012 03:11 PM
  20. Los's Avatar
    I respect t-mobile for not completely abandoning Windows Phone. At least they are offering Windows Phone even if it isn't high end cause at the end of the day, It's the low end casual users that's gonna get us the marketshare we need win over these developers
    snowmutt likes this.
    05-22-2012 03:21 PM
  21. snowmutt's Avatar
    Wow.

    Some bitter posts here. I do not get the "hate" for T-Mo, who has had very little support from their parent company and only a few months to recover from not being a part of AT&T. Yes, it is a budget carrier, but it has been a very good supporter of WP and has always had a couple of high end Androids. It is a decent carrier with decent devices. I would have zero problem moving to them, but as I live in a smaller area, service is not offered. Trust me: You all want the choices. Those of us with only one or two carrier options are truly the losers here.

    WP will get high end devices on T-Mo. I can almost promise it. As a GSM carrier, they are compatable with the same tech which is dominate overseas, and therefore an easy sell to get devices. They have been supportive of WP their entire run.

    As for if you should switch, Tbongo, I get the feeling you should wait things out. Your dislike of the devices you have is far outweighed by your desire to not spend a ton of money. (I respect that.) The summer buying season is close at hand, and T-Mo will restructure itself and work hard to get back into good graces with it's customer base. Without a couple of high end devices (maybe not cutting edge, but respectable) they will not be able to compete.

    Give it a little more time. The other options will get better as well while you wait.
    eric12341 likes this.
    05-23-2012 10:14 AM
  22. N8ter's Avatar
    But TMobile DOES offer the latest and greatest devices! It just came out with the HTC ONE S. Where's Verizon or Sprint's Krait device? This is literally the fastest phone available on the American market.

    TMobile literally lags behind for a couple of months in terms of devices because it was in a deal with AT&T and now everyone is calling it cheap. -.-
    Use cases differ. I've been very blunt and up front about where I think their service fails in comparison to AT&T and Verizon. They simply aren't reliable enough for people who travel. If you barely go anywhere or only go to places where their coverage is "perfect," then obviously the value is great for you.

    For me, it's filled with frustration. I hate being on the Amtrak and seeing people with 4G connections in the middle of no where on their AT&T/Verizon devices when mine is basically useless and I can barely send SMS/MMS due to the signal quality.

    The coverage gaps also lead to worse battery life than an equivalent device running on a better network, as well.
    05-25-2012 07:36 PM
  23. N8ter's Avatar
    Your points are horribly false
    Based on what facts you provide?
    1)Their coverage is expanding, especially since they're currently refarming their existing 3G/4G network to the PCS band, this will not only allow for any phone to be compatible but also exponentially expand coverage (eg GPRS/EDGE areas are now HSPA+ areas).
    T-Mobile doesn't have the money to really expand their coverage. The spectrum deal with AT&T was a blessing to them. They've never had the money to expand their coverage for quite a while. Their retention rates are worse than Sprint these days (losing more customers) despite being super competitive price-wise and their profits don't even approach AT&T/Verizon, who make billions year over year. And please don't blame the iPhone for them losing customers we seen how "amazing" its launch on Verizon was last year, lulz...

    T-Mobile coverage hasn't really been expanding at a competitive rate for over half a decade. AT&T put HSPA+ towers up in the rural area where I was living before here. Not even Verizon got 3G coverage there and T-Mobile got basically no signal (0-2 bars of GPRS Roaming flunctuating wildly, couldn't hold a call indoors). Without WiFi calling (which requires a UMA Blackberry or Android phone on their network) and your phone was useless. Why do you think even when I had my HD7 I kept the Vibrant for over a year and only just got rid of it? Cause I moved from Louisiana to Pennsylvannia and can at least make calls here without a WiFi connection, now. That's why.

    By the time T-Mobile's 3G coverage approaches AT&T or Verizon's, those carriers will have the nation blanketed in LTE for years by then. Their coverage has always been an issue, as well as their overreliance on Roaming contracts for call coverage (which often give low-grade signal quality leading to dropped calls and bad call quality nevermind the drain on your battery those weak signals have).

    2) I've never ever seen speeds below 1mbps while on 3G anywhere I've been so far (from Chicago to St Louis)

    Go hijack another thread elsewhere
    1. I've already provided screenshots of speed tests on this forum and another. The screenshots came from different devices, so the speeds are reliable. They're slow. I was getting 150-250k.

    Secondly, you're not really that well traveled. I've been dealing with the Coverage gaps on T-Mobile from Louisiana to Chicago to Harrisburg (Pa) to Baltimore to Richmond, and other places. All of which I've been to in the past 8 months or so. Chicago to St Louis wow, I mean... You're Gulliver now man!!!

    I already said their coverage is decent in metro areas since any carrier with a clue will make sure they double down in high population areas like that. Where they fail is the in betweens - areas that Verizon and AT&T are addressing but Sprint and T-Mobile are leaving neglected.

    Why are you baiting me is a more apt observation to your post, though.

    T-Mobile's prices are good - it's why I left AT&T for them to begin with, but it turned out to be not worth it for me. I use < 100 minutes a month. I require better data speeds and better data coverage, and they simply aren't even close to being competitive with Big Red/Blue for someone like me who travels between more than two metro cities.

    It's best if you look at them as if they were a regional carrier, because their nationwide coverage gaps give that impression. Sprint is very similar in that respect. AT&T and Verizon are the only ones aggressively addressing their coverage gaps, especially AT&T. If they tell you a tower's going up in 6 months chances are it'll be there in 4. Just from my experience dealing with them.

    The embarassing part about it is that they have stores in rather populous cities down south but even the phones in the store struggle to maintain 2 bars of GPRS in there. How do you expect to sell that service with those conditions?
    Last edited by N8ter; 05-25-2012 at 08:43 PM.
    05-25-2012 08:31 PM
  24. N8ter's Avatar
    That the HD7 was free with contract has absolutely no reflection on its sales performance.
    Nah, the HD7 released in October 2010, maybe November in the US, I'm unsure of hte actual date. By the second week of February it was free on contract.

    Name 1 high end Android phone that released and was dropped to nothing so quickly?

    The Vibrant released and when T-Mobile had their first BOGO promotion after release it was an exempt device and we had to pay full contract price ($249 + Tax) for the second one or pick a crap phone to get for free.

    The Amaxe 4G is still like $149 on contract. The GSII isn't free, that's for sure - not on AT&T or T-Mobile (or Sprint). Typically the only devices that drop down to free so fast are mid-range devices (like the HTC Aria did on AT&T) and the HD7 was their only WP7 device with arguably better hardware than an HD2 (which at that time had just gone down to free, almost if not over a year after release).

    That phone didn't perform well, and TBH it probably wasn't T-Mobile's fault, anyways.

    WP7 launched after a huge wave of high end Android devices as well as the iPhone 4 and by the time the HD7 made it to market a ton of contracts/contract renewals were already taken by the Vibrant/MyTouch/G2 and other devices. There simply weren't enough customers buying phones at that time to really drive the sales to where they needed to be.

    They dropped the price fast to get rid of them. Sales performance does matter. A carrier will never drop the price of a best-selling (or high-selling) device to $0 that fast. That's throwing money in the toilet for no reason other than "we can." No logic in that.
    Los likes this.
    05-25-2012 08:54 PM
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Let's not forget the fact that T-Mob is the ONLY carrier that uses the 1700 band for UMTS. OEM's are not so willing to break up production lines to change components to satisfy a singular customer. Look at all phone models, regardless of carrier affiliation, and count how many have the 1700 band. AWS is simply not that popular among OEMs.
    05-25-2012 10:14 PM
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