05-25-2012 08:21 PM
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  1. socialcarpet's Avatar
    I disagree with this. Just because it's UNIX based doesn't mean it's more secure. There's a reason that Macs are often the first to crack in hacking contests. You're right that XP is less secure than Windows 7, but that's not the whole story. Apple has a pretty lax attitude about security, and they promote that attitude among their users.
    The way UNIX handles permissions made Mac OS X inherently more secure than Windows XP and every version of Windows that preceded it. Microsoft addressed this in Windows Vista and 7 however and made the default permissions much stricter, used sandboxing and other methods to contain threats. I agree Apple has a history of being more lax about security over the years, though that's beginning to change. For the most part, it's users have been lax too, but they've been able to because a Mac becoming infected with malware or a virus has always been extremely rare. It's still quite rare.

    That Java exploit that you speak of affected every platform including Windows and Linux. But it only really spread among Macs because Apple chose not to release the fix until 45 days after the other platforms. And as a percentage of users infected it was huge (about 1%), more than Blaster or even Conficker.
    True. Apple was too lax about responding to this. They need to do a better job in the future.

    And really, if you're gonna let Apple off the hook because it was a Java exploit, then you should let MS off the hook for all the numerous exploits based on Flash, Java, Acrobat, etc. that have infected Windows over the years.
    The software developers all share some of the blame for those exploits on Windows as well, but in my opinion it's unacceptable that Windows XP was out there for so long and it was so vulnerable to becoming completely incapacitated when it was used by anyone other than a very savvy user with multiple forms of protection running and careful Internet habits. The technology existed for a long time that could have addressed this, Microsoft should have made Internet Explorer more secure a long time ago and they should have had robust built-in anti-virus and anti-malware protection running in the background and more secure default permissions by default on Windows XP years ago.

    But that's all water under the bridge now. Windows 7 is great.
    05-23-2012 11:27 AM
  2. socialcarpet's Avatar
    If you are seeing MORE incidences in Android - could it be that it is simply because of the sheer NUMBERS of android devices out there? Its an exponential thing. Same as PC viruses on Windows - there are MORE windows PCs than Apple - so guess who gets affected more? Put on your thinking caps!
    That theory falls apart when you look at the iPhone which has a huge marketshare as well, but nowhere near the malware and exploit problems that Android has, even if you look at it proportionally.

    Then again ther IS that "open source" approach - not EVERY one with the wherewithall to generate a program is guided by sweetness and light.... I'm certain there are some who are influenced by the "dark side" and some that are just curious to see what they can accomplish.For heaven's sake if every developer's "Bug", "crash", "endless loop" or "forced reboot" was seen as "malware" - then we'd all be stuck with simply what microsoft and apple doled out!
    Other Linux variants manage to be much more secure and resilient than Android. I submit that Android is just poorly coded and poorly maintained by Google. They vacillate between keeping it truly open-source and closed when it suits their purposes. They don't contribute much at all to the Linux kernel if anything.

    Personally I couldn't care less if Android dropped off the face of the earth. The only applications in which I think its of any use are when it's cleaned up and completely locked down, like in embedded applications or in devices like the Amazon Kindle Fire.

    Just my opinion, but having a loosey goosey all over the place approach to OS and ecosystem is fine for something like a desktop computer which is more forgiving and simple, but it makes no sense in a purpose built device that needs to be reliable above all else, like a phone. Would you want your car running on Android with bloatware, and an OEM skin and 3 dozen different styles of interface for every application? That would be fun when you got a unexpected force close of your fuel injection system as you were trying to merge onto the highway? Would you flash an experimental ROM on your cars ECU before heading out on a long road trip with your kids in the car?

    Risking instability and dealing with unreliability and poor performance might be an acceptable compromise for some people in exchange for being able to make their home screen look like the set of Battlestar Galactica, but for me it just seems like the stupidest idea ever.
    eric12341 likes this.
    05-23-2012 11:36 AM
  3. Los's Avatar
    you ignored my pont that malware has als been found in the ios appstore... no os is 110% secure, sorry to burst your bubble.

    To the person who said the beta test was over, why is your os still basically a beta then wiith all its missing features lol?
    And you ignored that google does nothing until it happens. Microsoft does something before it happens. It might get through but it's never gonna run wild like it does on android.

    It's like having a building with no metal detectors and security guards, then when someone sneaks in with a gun and starts robbing people, that's when they want to act like they want to take action. That's android, an " open market " with no metal detectors or security guards patting down devs before they enter. Would you feel safe in that building? Lol

    Anyway, this is pointless cause you love windows phone. If you didn't, you wouldn't waste your time here. I definitely wouldn't ever waste my time on an android site
    05-23-2012 12:31 PM
  4. invertme's Avatar
    Just to clear up some misconceptions people have here -

    Apple be it on a Mac, iPad or iPhone has terrible security and Apple is one of the slowest moving companies on closing holes or even acknowledging they exist.

    Siri is being blocked due to sending unsecured information to Apple, if you lose your phone it's simple to crack the phone and get EVERY password you have saved on it, exploits with the official Facebook and gmail apps, ways to bypass entering your security code, carrier IQ and soooo much more.

    Apple flat out sucks at security. They are the laughing stock of security.
    eric12341 likes this.
    05-23-2012 01:14 PM
  5. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Just to clear up some misconceptions people have here -

    Apple be it on a Mac, iPad or iPhone has terrible security and Apple is one of the slowest moving companies on closing holes or even acknowledging they exist.

    Siri is being blocked due to sending unsecured information to Apple, if you lose your phone it's simple to crack the phone and get EVERY password you have saved on it, exploits with the official Facebook and gmail apps, ways to bypass entering your security code, carrier IQ and soooo much more.

    Apple flat out sucks at security. They are the laughing stock of security.

    I think it's useful to point out there are two distinctly different things to consider here.

    One is considering the number of "security holes" identified by white hat hackers and security companies looking for exploits and the companies record on responding to them promptly.

    The other is, what is the actual LIKELIHOOD of someone's computer being compromised and/or undermined by malware, viruses etc. and how often is it ACTUALLY happening.

    Having the vulnerabilities is one thing, but the reality is that Macs are still RARELY being compromised or infected with damaging malware in any meaningful way. The news is full of information about vulnerabilities lately as Apple is increasingly the company people love to hate. But where are the legions of Mac users with computers crippled by malware? How is this actually manifesting itself in a way that hurts anyone? The answer is, ITS NOT.

    So if you use a Mac now, you're STILL far less likely to get infected by malware or viruses or exploits because there are still far far less of them out there that target the Mac.

    That said, Apple can't afford to be complacent. I agree with you there.

    Apple needs to be more responsive to releasing patches related to security. They are introducing a new security control panel called Gatekeeper in Mac OS X 10.8 which should help considerably. The other thing Apple needs to do is respond more quickly when a vulnerability is identified.

    In the meantime, any Mac user can take steps to harden their security TODAY. Turn on the firewall, run Software Update regularly, use FileVault, don't click on pop-ups, get your apps from the Mac App Store and don't be an ***** and install some alleged Mac anti-virus app from a banner ad. If you do all those things and use a secure password, I don't care what anyone says, there is a 99.999999999999999999999% chance you are not going to have any problem with security on a Mac.
    05-23-2012 03:46 PM
  6. fisci's Avatar
    That theory falls apart when you look at the iPhone which has a huge marketshare as well, but nowhere near the malware and exploit problems that Android has, even if you look at it proportionally.



    Other Linux variants manage to be much more secure and resilient than Android. I submit that Android is just poorly coded and poorly maintained by Google. They vacillate between keeping it truly open-source and closed when it suits their purposes. They don't contribute much at all to the Linux kernel if anything.

    Personally I couldn't care less if Android dropped off the face of the earth. The only applications in which I think its of any use are when it's cleaned up and completely locked down, like in embedded applications or in devices like the Amazon Kindle Fire.

    Just my opinion, but having a loosey goosey all over the place approach to OS and ecosystem is fine for something like a desktop computer which is more forgiving and simple, but it makes no sense in a purpose built device that needs to be reliable above all else, like a phone. Would you want your car running on Android with bloatware, and an OEM skin and 3 dozen different styles of interface for every application? That would be fun when you got a unexpected force close of your fuel injection system as you were trying to merge onto the highway? Would you flash an experimental ROM on your cars ECU before heading out on a long road trip with your kids in the car?

    Risking instability and dealing with unreliability and poor performance might be an acceptable compromise for some people in exchange for being able to make their home screen look like the set of Battlestar Galactica, but for me it just seems like the stupidest idea ever.
    I get no poor performance, you must have all had some pretty cheap android phones.... Never any freezes, slowdown, reboots, etc... I love my galaxy s2 skyrocket. Especially now with ics, it is a beast.

    ftr I actually do like windows phone as well, checking back to see if windows phone 8 fixes the omissions that drove me away.

    Unlike you guys I don't bash an os to make myself feel better.
    05-23-2012 06:07 PM
  7. fisci's Avatar
    Local Scout,
    Hardware Camera button that wakes the phone,
    Built in Facebook, Twitter, Live, LinkedIn,
    Bing Audio search,
    Word, Excel, Powerpoint,
    Xbox Live,
    Zune Pass...

    I'm sure other posters can chime in if needed. Those things you mentioned are minor, minor omissions. Hardly deal breaking.
    aside from the camera button waking the phone (which actually afaik you can set up on cm7 or cm9), zune pass (which sucks, if you don't pay for it for one month you lose all your music and end u with a ton of songs on your phone you cant even listen to), and xbox live (which again I hardly consider a feature. Also isn't there an xbox live app on android? lol)

    the other things you can totally do on android depending on the model you have. HTC phones have all the social networking built in if that is your bag.

    There are plenty of fantastic apps for word, excel and powerpoint too.

    I really haven't seen one thing a windows phone can do solely....

    Like I've said before, I'm os neutral. Aside from iPhone which bores me (and I hate itunes), I like both wp7 and android.

    I just laugh at the disinformation on here. If wp8 fixes some omissions I would come back I'm sure. I half considered buying a used wp7 phone too so I could have both.

    I just don't like the hostility on these boards to anything that isn't wp7, or to anyone who posts something they consider an issue. You guys get really angry about it
    05-23-2012 06:28 PM
  8. Seketh's Avatar
    I get no poor performance, you must have all had some pretty cheap android phones.... Never any freezes, slowdown, reboots, etc... I love my galaxy s2 skyrocket. Especially now with ics, it is a beast.

    ftr I actually do like windows phone as well, checking back to see if windows phone 8 fixes the omissions that drove me away.

    Unlike you guys I don't bash an os to make myself feel better.
    Isn't defending the OS you're currently using trying to make yourself feel better? Oh, the irony.

    Seriously though, if you browse the WP forums long enough, you know that people are fed up of having Android fanboys defending their OS and bashing WP. Don't be one of those people, we are tired.

    This is a Windows Phone forum. If someone had a genuine poor experience with Android, just let it go, there's absolutely no reason why you must do what you're doing.

    People get angry because they are fed up. Just let it go...
    eric12341 likes this.
    05-23-2012 06:39 PM
  9. eric12341's Avatar
    aside from the camera button waking the phone (which actually afaik you can set up on cm7 or cm9), zune pass (which sucks, if you don't pay for it for one month you lose all your music and end u with a ton of songs on your phone you cant even listen to), and xbox live (which again I hardly consider a feature. Also isn't there an xbox live app on android? lol)

    the other things you can totally do on android depending on the model you have. HTC phones have all the social networking built in if that is your bag.

    There are plenty of fantastic apps for word, excel and powerpoint too.

    I really haven't seen one thing a windows phone can do solely....

    Like I've said before, I'm os neutral. Aside from iPhone which bores me (and I hate itunes), I like both wp7 and android.

    I just laugh at the disinformation on here. If wp8 fixes some omissions I would come back I'm sure. I half considered buying a used wp7 phone too so I could have both.

    I just don't like the hostility on these boards to anything that isn't wp7, or to anyone who posts something they consider an issue. You guys get really angry about it
    If you don't like the hostility and misinformation about anything not WP you are welcome to go somewhere else. Reason why people are doing that is because they're dissatisfied with their experience on android and are now on WP which is totally fine.
    05-23-2012 06:49 PM
  10. fisci's Avatar
    If you don't like the hostility and misinformation about anything not WP you are welcome to go somewhere else. Reason why people are doing that is because they're dissatisfied with their experience on android and are now on WP which is totally fine.
    I like wp7 but I also like android...

    Though driving more people away is definitely a great way to help your fledgling os..
    05-23-2012 06:55 PM
  11. Seketh's Avatar
    I like wp7 but I also like android...

    Though driving more people away is definitely a great way to help your fledgling os..
    "Your fledgling OS".

    That's the problem right there. That kind of talk isn't welcome here, it brings nothing but flames. It's not moving people away, it's moving trolls away from serious (to-be) Windows Phone users.

    When you browse the WPCentral forums and defend Android from posts that talk bad about it, that just gives the impression that you're a fanboy. Saying that you like WP7 doesn't change that, people who have a Windows Phone don't go to Android forums in order to defend their phone, and if they do, then they are fanboys and I condemn them for doing that, just like I do with every other fanboy.

    And that brings me to my point. You are one of the following people:

    a) You're not happy with your experience and feel the need to change to another OS.
    b) You're a fanboy that feels the need to defend your OS of choice in the forums of other OS.

    So, which is it?
    Last edited by Seketh; 05-23-2012 at 07:20 PM.
    05-23-2012 07:13 PM
  12. Los's Avatar
    I'm surprised he even has time to post here with all the time android sucks out of your life just to customize and have it running decent
    eric12341 likes this.
    05-23-2012 07:16 PM
  13. smapor's Avatar
    some people just fail in life....
    05-23-2012 07:40 PM
  14. fisci's Avatar
    some people just fail in life....
    yep I'm a real failing electrical engineering..

    I guarantee I'm pulling in a lot more than you are...

    Like I've said, I like wp7 waiting on wp8 to see what changes there are. Just laugh at all the pointless and fake android talk on here.
    05-23-2012 07:55 PM
  15. Kredrian's Avatar
    You guys are funny! Comparing vulnerable OS's is rather like comparing a regular postal box to being susceptible to junk mail or the rural mailboxes to kids out bashing them at night!

    You got a box? You run the risk of suffering from either problem! Solution? Yeah a few: Toss the junk mail without reading it, shred it and use it in the bottom of the hamster cage, or for garden mulch. Protect the box from bashing by encasing it in concrete - or get a rubbermaid box (just about impervious to bashing but not uprooting). Or get a post office box!

    Solutions pretty similar to installing spyware, malware and antivirus security. There are always going to be jerks out there testing the locks on your vehicles, houses and bikes - you keep those things secure don't you? And you do know that there are certain areas of town ( and the web) that are more prone to a predominance of jerks right?

    If you are seeing MORE incidences in Android - could it be that it is simply because of the sheer NUMBERS of android devices out there? Its an exponential thing. Same as PC viruses on Windows - there are MORE windows PCs than Apple - so guess who gets affected more? Put on your thinking caps!

    Then again ther IS that "open source" approach - not EVERY one with the wherewithall to generate a program is guided by sweetness and light.... I'm certain there are some who are influenced by the "dark side" and some that are just curious to see what they can accomplish.For heaven's sake if every developer's "Bug", "crash", "endless loop" or "forced reboot" was seen as "malware" - then we'd all be stuck with simply what microsoft and apple doled out!

    Common sense folks, common sense use it!
    I like getting junk mail that has those prepaid envelopes inside, and what I do is I take the junk mail one company sends me, I put that in another companies prepaid envelope and I mail them. I like to think that the person opening it looks through it and goes WTF!! Sometimes if I don't have enough junk to go round, I just get some coupons from the flyers I get and add them instead.
    scottcraft likes this.
    05-23-2012 08:28 PM
  16. Seketh's Avatar
    yep I'm a real failing electrical engineering..

    I guarantee I'm pulling in a lot more than you are...

    Like I've said, I like wp7 waiting on wp8 to see what changes there are. Just laugh at all the pointless and fake android talk on here.
    You still haven't answered me. What are you? A) or B)?
    05-23-2012 08:37 PM
  17. Dave Blake's Avatar
    What does this pointless back and forth about whether Android is good or bad have to do with this thread topic? What someone is or isn't has nothing to do with what platform has less malware.

    Android is a more open platform and is therefore less protected from Malware. Its that way by design there can be no argument on this its a fact.

    Every application in the WP Marketplace is tested and approved before gaining the privilege of entering the market. This is how it is done on WP. This applications process keeps malicious offerings out. Windows Phone OS is also designed with inherent protections to keep malware from spreading. Just Bing "Windows Phone Sandbox" and start reading.

    This evidence is there that Android is under attack the malware is spreading. Windows Phone is not and is the safer platform at this time.

    In this light, I would say, it is a good time to have a Windows Phone
    eric12341, cedarlog and Reflexx like this.
    05-23-2012 09:51 PM
  18. Jeff Kibuule's Avatar
    There's a little truth to that, but it's a bit of an overused pet excuse, particularly of Mac haters.

    Mac OS X is inherently more secure than Windows XP because of it's UNIX structure. Even when you do see a Mac exploit, it is never remotely close to the severity of the rampant crap you'd see on Windows XP. The worst thing I ever heard of was the Java exploit, and Oracle was as much to blame for that as Apple was.

    Now, Windows 7 is much more secure than XP was, so that gap has narrowed significantly. As long as you're not reckless and you use some kind of protection an average user can use Windows 7 and not wind up gummed up with malware.

    It's true that there are much fewer exploits attempted on less popular systems, but passive (OS architecture and policy based) and active security measures are just as, if nor more important.

    iOS is extremely popular, yet you virtually never hear about malware on the iPhone or iPad. It's definitely not due to a lack of popularity or people trying to exploit it. It's because of the "walled garden" that Android fans love to gripe about. By closing off key parts of the core OS and carefully curating the app store, Apple avoids this malware nonsense that plagues Android.

    Windows Phone had a similar approach. Microsoft deliberately followed Apples model of keeping much of the core of the OS under lock and key, carefully controlling the app market and applying strict security policies. Like Apple and unlike Google, Microsoft prioritizes the quality of the end user experience over leaving things wide open for any developer, OEM, carrier or malware author to crap all over.

    Windows Phone and iOS are NEVER going to have the type and number of security problems that Android does because of this.
    There are plenty of exploits for iOS. What do you think jailbreaks are? The issue is packaging them up with a payload that a normal user would do, and those are indeed rare. However, exploits these days are rarely in the OS, but 3rd party libraries that the OS ships with or depends on. I remember famously that you could jailbreak an iPhone by simply visiting a website because of a bug in the TIFF encoder.

    Then there's the recent Flashback malware attack that exploited Java.

    The root cause is less and less about the OS and more and more about 3rd party plugins/libraries that don't go through the same rigorous security hardening that OS vendors put their own code through.
    05-24-2012 12:13 AM
  19. Mio_Ray's Avatar
    Such a small thing as adding a phonenumber from a recieved text to an existing contact. ! I couldn't do that on BB, iOS or Android.

    Superior power management - almost on par with the BB9700 despite twice the screen and processor speed.

    In fact the only thing I really miss from time to time is the option to do a screenshot. Other than that, WP is the most well balanced smartphone OS I have ever used.

    In fact. If I should rate them based on my personal experience it would be

    1. Windows Phone
    2. BlackBerry OS
    3. iOS
    4. Android
    5. Symbian

    That is based on functionality, what actually gets You through the day. It is not about what You can make it do, it is about what it just does.





    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    05-24-2012 01:37 AM
  20. cedarlog's Avatar
    its always a good time to buy windows phone :happy:
    scottcraft and willied like this.
    05-24-2012 02:35 AM
  21. fisci's Avatar
    What does this pointless back and forth about whether Android is good or bad have to do with this thread topic? What someone is or isn't has nothing to do with what platform has less malware.

    Android is a more open platform and is therefore less protected from Malware. Its that way by design there can be no argument on this its a fact.

    Every application in the WP Marketplace is tested and approved before gaining the privilege of entering the market. This is how it is done on WP. This applications process keeps malicious offerings out. Windows Phone OS is also designed with inherent protections to keep malware from spreading. Just Bing "Windows Phone Sandbox" and start reading.

    This evidence is there that Android is under attack the malware is spreading. Windows Phone is not and is the safer platform at this time.

    In this light, I would say, it is a good time to have a Windows Phone

    99.9% of this is from sideloading apps, which you can also do on wp7...

    I wager when (more like if) wp7 gets larger you will also see malware from sideloading applications.

    No one is interested in writing malware for it yet

    Such a small thing as adding a phonenumber from a recieved text to an existing contact. ! I couldn't do that on BB, iOS or Android.
    Um, this has been a function since android 1.5 or 1.6, you just touch the number lol.

    I don't get the battery life praise either, I find my current phone lasts longer than my optimus 7 or quantum did, and has a much powerful processor, bigger screen and better gpu.

    Maybe gen2 phones are way better on battery or something?
    05-24-2012 04:58 AM
  22. Dave Blake's Avatar
    99.9% of this is from sideloading apps, which you can also do on wp7...

    I wager when (more like if) wp7 gets larger you will also see malware from sideloading applications.

    No one is interested in writing malware for it yet
    If you have any current relevant information to share please do. We can review the futer events if they happen. Please make relevant meaningful posts.

    All off topic rants will be deleted from this thread so please stay on topic or your posts will be removed.
    Reflexx and hardcoreplur like this.
    05-24-2012 05:30 AM
  23. hardcoreplur's Avatar
    the thread degraded in to this.


    /thread
    alpinestars1z likes this.
    05-25-2012 02:39 PM
  24. Joelist's Avatar
    Windows jumped past OSX on the security front actually with Vista - that was when they reengineered the kernel and all of the underlying OS into a sandboxed model. 7 improved on that model and right now a Windows 7 system is difficult to get infected unless the user actively permits it by providing the admin credentials when asked for.

    Now that does not mean that OSX and iOS are insecure. They are both pretty decent security wise. The weak boy on the block has been Android in security terms and that has been because of the open source nature - exploits are easier to design when you have source code access. With that said, Gingerbread is more secure than Eclair was and ICS is again more secure - it is happening because Google and the OEMs want in on the enterprise market that is looking to get away from RIM.

    iOS is in the security ballpark but their approach to that security seriously hampers the usability of the device in a business setting. Android has the usability but the security isn't there. Here is the Windows 8 opportunity - deliver both usability and security and they become the successor to RIM.
    05-25-2012 06:07 PM
  25. freestaterocker's Avatar
    the ten apps you guys have are trustworthy?? lol

    this is blown wayyy out of proportion. there has been malware found on the ios ap store as well.

    It is a fact of being a major os.

    I guess when you're small potatoes it isn't a concern lol
    Sorry trolloller. 10 doesn't equal 85,000+.
    Last edited by freestaterocker; 05-25-2012 at 08:41 PM.
    05-25-2012 08:21 PM
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