05-31-2012 10:31 PM
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  1. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Because Windows isn't a strong brand! Windows is what you put up with, because you have to. I'm not say that's the reality of Windows, Windows 7 is excellent. The brand is enormous. But not loved. There's a difference. See, for example, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/27/bu...omain.html?hpw
    Well that may be true; but, Microsoft could and is definitely using its clout to try to convince us to "tolerate" Windows on smartphones like we do on desktops. Full version Microsoft Word on smartphone would be awesome and a good beginning incentive for users to swap from Android.

    It really doesn't matter if Windows is loved or not was one of my previous points, as long as the brand gets people to buy its products and, if it does so through "tolerance", I would describe it as a strong brand. (A strong brand to me is simply anything that sells product. McDonald's tastes awful but is recognizable and "tolerated". McDonald's is a very strong brand.)
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    05-28-2012 12:03 PM
  2. jalb's Avatar
    I find that people hate on WIndows becuase it's cool to do so. They often can't even articulate why they hate it, or give examples of something that does was they need better. They just go ROFLBLUESCREENOFDEATH MIRITE and pat themselves on the back for being part of the crowd.

    Most of the people that have problems with Windows bring it on themselves becuase they suck at using the Internet and visit shady websites (CLICK HERE FOR FREE SMILEYZ) and infect themselves with viruses.
    alpinestars1z likes this.
    05-28-2012 02:41 PM
  3. tekhna's Avatar

    Most of the people that have problems with Windows bring it on themselves becuase they suck at using the Internet and visit shady websites (CLICK HERE FOR FREE SMILEYZ) and infect themselves with viruses.
    Just to be clear, that's the exact argument people here make about why Android sucks.. ;)
    But I agree with you. I use OS X, have for a very long time, but Windows 7 is awesome.
    alpinestars1z likes this.
    05-28-2012 03:00 PM
  4. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Well that may be true; but, Microsoft could and is definitely using its clout to try to convince us to "tolerate" Windows on smartphones like we do on desktops. Full version Microsoft Word on smartphone would be awesome and a good beginning incentive for users to swap from Android.

    It really doesn't matter if Windows is loved or not was one of my previous points, as long as the brand gets people to buy its products and, if it does so through "tolerance", I would describe it as a strong brand. (A strong brand to me is simply anything that sells product. McDonald's tastes awful but is recognizable and "tolerated". McDonald's is a very strong brand.)
    Not to mention what it does to you. Ever watch that "super-size me" doc? Yet people still buy that garbage by the ton. Not a ringing endorsement for MS but it does emphasize your point. Well put.
    05-28-2012 03:05 PM
  5. N8ter's Avatar
    I find that people hate on WIndows becuase it's cool to do so. They often can't even articulate why they hate it, or give examples of something that does was they need better. They just go ROFLBLUESCREENOFDEATH MIRITE and pat themselves on the back for being part of the crowd.

    Most of the people that have problems with Windows bring it on themselves becuase they suck at using the Internet and visit shady websites (CLICK HERE FOR FREE SMILEYZ) and infect themselves with viruses.
    Most active posters who have issues with the platform have articulated why they have those issues. However, it gets old having people throw at you a list of work-arounds, "get used to it WP7 is not OS_101", or "Wait til NoDo/Mango/Tango/Apollo/etc."

    That's a huge issue for the platform. Complacency is not good. iFan may think their device is the end all be all, but they aren't ever willing to settle for crap, and even aFans will lambast and flame an OEM for releasing a crap/buggy device. Here people seem absolutely intent on finding a coverup or excuse for everything lacking and it kills discussion (they will simply label you and stick to that tone) nevermind it's not good for the platform as a whole since those are typically the more vocal people.

    Most people who do not like WP7 don't care about it and don't care enough to register on a WP7 OS/Device forum to post about it. They're busy using the devices they like to use and posting in those forums instead (yes, even complains about their device - and the excuse generator is not specific to this forum so I'm not singling it or anyone out on that).

    The only way to improve is to recognize what is deficient. There's no such thing as "a perfect OS" with "room to improve." That's an oxymoron.

    In any case, I'm done. I just bit the bullet and ETF'd my T-Mobile lines and I'm moving and to AT&T and whatever suits my uses that they carry. I will likely just lurk from now on, unless it's a multi-platform discussion or I'm addressed specifically. Bai.

    ---

    IRT Windows Viruses - a totally off-topic discussion - much of that has to do with Windows' reputation, not necessarily with how it is RIGHT NOW. That reputation was earned because 9x had a poor - almost non-existent - security and even some NT Variants up to XP (at least until SP2) were very vulnurable. XP is still rather widely used, but that's a long history of having your OS being the punching bag for malware writers and in most cases Microsoft left the door wide open. They should have moved to NT at Windows 95, but didn't because of backward compatibility (which is absolutely a legit reason, it just had a bad side-effect).

    * If the OS has a vulnurability then it's totally possible to get infected by something unknown to the AV application (even with heuristics scanning on), even on OSes with proper platform-level security measures - see Linux and Mac exploits.

    Vista and 7 are secure. Just run it like a modern OS, not like an upgrade to Windows 95. Log into a normal user account and provide the password for stuff, if you run Admin leave UAC on. Use Internet Explorer 9. Don't Pirate Software, stay off pr0n sites, etc. etc. The Windows Firewall and Microsoft Security Essentials both use almost no resources and work well enough. Getting a decent router also helps.

    If you avoid installing a ton of useless applications and set your PC to auto-defrag something like every Sunday morning at 3AM, and periodically run something like CCleaner it will run fine forever and you will never have to reload it due to performance issues. I haven't gotten a virus in over a decade. I've never had to reload a copy of Vista or 7 due to degrading performance (XP I was constantly changing dual boot setups so I'm not particularly sure if I ever felt the need to reload for that reason, it was so long ago).
    Last edited by N8ter; 05-29-2012 at 09:01 AM.
    05-29-2012 08:53 AM
  6. invertme's Avatar
    Just to be clear, that's the exact argument people here make about why Android sucks.. ;)
    But I agree with you. I use OS X, have for a very long time, but Windows 7 is awesome.
    Ha, there is a long list of why Android sucks... but maybe this isn't the place to get into that!
    05-29-2012 10:52 AM
  7. Fleon's Avatar

    That's a huge issue for the platform. Complacency is not good. iFan may think their device is the end all be all, but they aren't ever willing to settle for crap, and even aFans will lambast and flame an OEM for releasing a crap/buggy device. Here people seem absolutely intent on finding a coverup or excuse for everything lacking and it kills discussion (they will simply label you and stick to that tone) nevermind it's not good for the platform as a whole since those are typically the more vocal people.
    Actually, I disagree a bit here and will chime in a bit on consumer memory and the effect of expectation bias. Apple has done a great job of marketing into the consumer mind that OSX is better, safer, more reliable and consumers have a very hard time stepping out of this accepted belief structure. As an Apple product, this mentality carried over to iOS. Now, how true is this really and are people willing to let personal empirical or statistical evidence dispute it?

    The answer is no. Expectation is more pervasive and powerful than reality.

    Example: Macs "just work" and are "more reliable" than cheap PC makers.
    Truth: no. Last year's results show that Apple's computers are just barely better than HP machines. And the Apple repair numbers in the link below are likely smaller than reality since most Mac users are used to taking a machine to AppleCare (Which doesn't publish repair numbers).
    2011 Computer Reliability Report

    Example: Apple is for people who care about the environment and don't mind paying to be more socially conscious. (Yes, this is actually one of the stated reasons people justify buying a Mac.)
    Truth: No. "According to data released by Apple, the Cupertino company has an annual carbon footprint of 10.2 million tons, which is more than HP's and Dell's footprints together -- 8.4 million tons and 471,000 tons respectively."
    Apple Wants to Get Greener | PCWorld

    This could go on as a list of engineering issues (overheats, bad chips, etc), data problems (iCloud, iOS sync failures), corporate mistreatment (railroading competing products out of the App Store), bad consumer interaction (suing your own customers), but the purpose here is not to attack Apple. It's to show that perception (read marketing) is more powerful than reality when done effectively. Apple has been very, very good at that- and it shows.

    So I do disagree with the above paragraph of N8ter's. aFans, as he calls them, are very good at forgiving their device. Maybe it's because the worship their phones?
    Apple triggers 'religious' reaction in fans' brains, report says - CNN
    05-29-2012 12:28 PM
  8. alpinestars1z's Avatar
    Most active posters who have issues with the platform have articulated why they have those issues. However, it gets old having people throw at you a list of work-arounds, "get used to it WP7 is not OS_101", or "Wait til NoDo/Mango/Tango/Apollo/etc."
    That's why I haven't recommended WP7 to anyone so far, I feel that some of it's shortcomings would bother the people I would recommend it to. Instead, what I usually tell people is wait until the end of this year when hopefully iOS 6, Jelly Bean, Apollo, and BB10 (does anyone still think they'll succeed?) comes out, then you'll get to choose from latest and greatest devices and mobile operating systems.
    05-29-2012 12:32 PM
  9. Fleon's Avatar
    That's why I haven't recommended WP7 to anyone so far, I feel that some of it's shortcomings would bother the people I would recommend it to. Instead, what I usually tell people is wait until the end of this year when hopefully iOS 6, Jelly Bean, Apollo, and BB10 (does anyone still think they'll succeed?) comes out, then you'll get to choose from latest and greatest devices and mobile operating systems.
    I couldn't recommend WP7 to anyone until Mango came out. Then- depending on the person and their needs- I suggested it to a fairly non-tech friend to try, since he really didn't want another iPhone (for whatever reason.) He really likes it. It definitely depends on the needs of the person, but I've found that most people have far fewer needs/wants than what the tech-heavy posters to forums assume.

    Having said that, my general recommendation to anyone looking at phones right now is to try to wait til Oct/Nov when almost everyone will have a new generation of phones arriving.
    05-29-2012 02:00 PM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I couldn't recommend WP7 to anyone until Mango came out. Then- depending on the person and their needs- I suggested it to a fairly non-tech friend to try, since he really didn't want another iPhone (for whatever reason.) He really likes it. It definitely depends on the needs of the person, but I've found that most people have far fewer needs/wants than what the tech-heavy posters to forums assume.

    Having said that, my general recommendation to anyone looking at phones right now is to try to wait til Oct/Nov when almost everyone will have a new generation of phones arriving.
    There is a difference between recommending to someone and giving an opinion. Anybody who asks me I'll tell them that I really like WP7, but I I'll also tell them to check it out for themselves. Everybody has different needs and wants so what works for me may be overkill for someone else, or vice-versa. Waiting for the fall is definitely the best advice since we'll all be able to see what's out there.
    05-29-2012 02:43 PM
  11. selfcreation's Avatar
    not recommending a phone when some one ask for one is the worst advice you can give, unless you sat down with them to go over the 1000features and noticed its not the phone for him, witch I doubt any of you actually do ( unless your a sale man ) cause why would you , lol

    now obviously this phone is missing some pretty big Functions that most of you are used to on an other phone ,

    but you would ALL be VERY surprise how much missing function doesn't effect 90% of the people buying does phones.

    im one of them , my phone does 100% what I want it to do. ( im not saying it doesn't have missing functions or its perfect , im just saying im happy with it, )

    even if you see people complain on this site with 60k members, it doesn't compare to the MILLIONS of WP clients.

    Most people just want a phone that works . and honestly most of the missing functions we see ( that actually effect the usage) not just random. * I want folders BS * are unique to a few individual.


    in life , the bad always surfaces over the good even doh the good might out do the bad.
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 05-29-2012 at 03:10 PM.
    05-29-2012 02:59 PM
  12. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    iFan may think their device is the end all be all, but they aren't ever willing to settle for crap, and even aFans will lambast and flame an OEM for releasing a crap/buggy device. Here people seem absolutely intent on finding a coverup or excuse for everything lacking and it kills discussion (they will simply label you and stick to that tone) nevermind it's not good for the platform as a whole since those are typically the more vocal people.
    Users on WPCentral are not critical of criticism in general, N8ter. The reason people are critical of your viewpoints is because they are transparently wrong. People tend to be receptive of genuine, constructive criticism. Criticism that is completely misdirected makes individuals angry.



    For example, in this very post, you claim that iPhone fans aren't willing to "settle for crap" and are more critical of their own platform than WP users. This is false. iPhone users are notoriously complacent.

    Let me just point out two common sticking points against the iPhone: 1) it has a 3.5" display and 2) it lacks LTE. Another huge missing feature is that, for a long time, the iPhone only worked on AT&T and, in many nations, it still only works on one network... yet no one complains. Instead, people change their carrier because it's the iPhone!

    These are HUGE missing features that have a significant impact on everyday users!!! (Just one of them is so much bigger than all of WPs quirks combined.) It's not possible to go a day without realizing that the iPhone doesn't work on T-Mobile. iPhone users are faaaaar more complacent that WP users. Many iPhone users don't knock the iPhone for any of these BIG items. But, on WP forum, we have people knocking every little detail of the OS.

    This is an example of a very unqualified claim that make people angry. You don't need to think about it for a second to figure out why the claim WP users are more defensive of their platform is upside down.
    05-29-2012 08:18 PM
  13. palandri's Avatar
    Good gawd! Is this thread ever going to end? :D
    alpinestars1z likes this.
    05-29-2012 08:23 PM
  14. alpinestars1z's Avatar
    Good gawd! Is this thread ever going to end? :D
    It will if you lock it. :)

    Lol jk, don't lock it. :P
    palandri likes this.
    05-29-2012 08:36 PM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Good gawd! Is this thread ever going to end? :D
    The Heat's not playing tonight so not much to do except play internet market analyst. Kids asleep already and the Mrs. has a "headache".
    05-29-2012 09:41 PM
  16. scottcraft's Avatar
    The Heat's not playing tonight so not much to do except play internet market analyst. Kids asleep already and the Mrs. has a "headache".
    Tomorrow night I'll be watching the Heat. No wpcentral tomorrow night!
    05-29-2012 09:45 PM
  17. N8ter's Avatar
    Users on WPCentral are not critical of criticism in general, N8ter. The reason people are critical of your viewpoints is because they are transparently wrong. People tend to be receptive of genuine, constructive criticism. Criticism that is completely misdirected makes individuals angry.



    For example, in this very post, you claim that iPhone fans aren't willing to "settle for crap" and are more critical of their own platform than WP users. This is false. iPhone users are notoriously complacent.

    Let me just point out two common sticking points against the iPhone: 1) it has a 3.5" display and 2) it lacks LTE. Another huge missing feature is that, for a long time, the iPhone only worked on AT&T and, in many nations, it still only works on one network... yet no one complains. Instead, people change their carrier because it's the iPhone!

    These are HUGE missing features that have a significant impact on everyday users!!! (Just one of them is so much bigger than all of WPs quirks combined.) It's not possible to go a day without realizing that the iPhone doesn't work on T-Mobile. iPhone users are faaaaar more complacent that WP users. Many iPhone users don't knock the iPhone for any of these BIG items. But, on WP forum, we have people knocking every little detail of the OS.

    This is an example of a very unqualified claim that make people angry. You don't need to think about it for a second to figure out why the claim WP users are more defensive of their platform is upside down.
    AntennaGate
    iOS Users waned their Notification system forever
    They complained about the lack of Multi-Tasking
    What about iOS5 battery life issues - that was patched fast, after much revolt

    Sorry, but they're quite vocal about issues in their OS and its shortcomings.

    I seriously don't know an OS community that makes as many excuses for the platform as WP7's. Check Microsoft's suggestion site, it's full of that drivel as well as the facebook comment threads of anything that mentions this platform (also some well-known defenders that patrol the Microsoft Blogs, they are fun).

    Android users are quite up front and seem to not give a crap since those that care will just load an optimized custom ROM and move on, anyways, nevermind in the AT&T store a Vivid with stock ICS/Sense 3.6 had performance on par or better than any Windows Phone 7 device in that store including the Lumia 900 so that really isn't biting them...
    Last edited by N8ter; 05-29-2012 at 11:33 PM.
    05-29-2012 11:16 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    The Heat's not playing tonight so not much to do except play internet market analyst. Kids asleep already and the Mrs. has a "headache".
    Tomorrow night I'll be watching the Heat. No wpcentral tomorrow night!
    I still despise LeQuit after his "decision" fiasco, since he showed no class. Go Celtics!
    05-30-2012 12:21 AM
  19. scottcraft's Avatar
    I still despise LeQuit after his "decision" fiasco, since he showed no class. Go Celtics!
    He certainly didn't handle it well, but it could have been worse. See how Dwight Howard handled this season.
    05-30-2012 12:42 AM
  20. scottcraft's Avatar
    AntennaGate
    iOS Users waned their Notification system forever
    They complained about the lack of Multi-Tasking
    What about iOS5 battery life issues - that was patched fast, after much revolt

    Sorry, but they're quite vocal about issues in their OS and its shortcomings.

    I seriously don't know an OS community that makes as many excuses for the platform as WP7's. Check Microsoft's suggestion site, it's full of that drivel as well as the facebook comment threads of anything that mentions this platform (also some well-known defenders that patrol the Microsoft Blogs, they are fun).

    Android users are quite up front and seem to not give a crap since those that care will just load an optimized custom ROM and move on, anyways, nevermind in the AT&T store a Vivid with stock ICS/Sense 3.6 had performance on par or better than any Windows Phone 7 device in that store including the Lumia 900 so that really isn't biting them...

    I typed a long response but then I decided it really doesn't matter. WP doesn't seem to work for you and that's perfectly ok. You have to find what you like and obviously WP isn't it. Hope you find something that you are satisfied with.
    05-30-2012 12:53 AM
  21. andylees66's Avatar
    I have recently purchased a HTC One X (Tegra 3 version). All I can say is WP7 murders Android. My old HD7 is faster at web browsing, better GPS (4 hours navigation vs 2 hours on the One X). Couple this with the fact that you can buy a WP7 device and not download any apps and still have an extremely usable OS. I've had to spend nearly $100 on apps and my One X still doesn't have all the functionality of my old HD7. I could give many examples but my post would be ignored :)
    selfcreation and Nataku4ca like this.
    05-30-2012 05:02 AM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I still despise LeQuit after his "decision" fiasco, since he showed no class. Go Celtics!
    Laura, are you mad at me because I'm from Miami? Sorry about what we did to the Tribe in '97. LOL!!!
    05-30-2012 09:03 AM
  23. AngryNil's Avatar
    My old HD7 is faster at web browsing...
    Would you be able to shoot a video of this? I sincerely doubt the HD7 can render pages faster than the One X, even with the less-than-stellar stock Android browser. If it is the case, might want to give Chrome a shot.
    05-30-2012 09:17 AM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Laura, are you mad at me because I'm from Miami? Sorry about what we did to the Tribe in '97. LOL!!!
    Actually, I'm not mad at you (or the Marlins) in the least. The Marlins won fair and square.

    I'd have nothing against LeBron if he had just gone ahead and signed with a different team. His lack of class in making his whole "decision" thing into a soap opera and then having his own TV special to announce it is what burned me.

    I still like CC Sabathia, even though he's with the Yankees now. He was classy, though. When he left Cleveland, he took out a full page ad in the Cleveland Plain Dealer to thank all the fans.
    05-30-2012 09:44 AM
  25. bilzkh's Avatar
    "Why WP has such slow growth?"

    Answer: Because some carrier rep in Fall 2010 thought the Xperia X10 was better than Samsung Focus.
    05-30-2012 09:45 AM
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