Why WP has such slow growth

[Laura Knotek]

That's my point. This thread is about WP's slow growth. Yet all you always do is say me! me! me! Lol...remember, it doesn't matter what your looking for. When it comes to gaining marketshare. It's about winning over the casual users. It's much bigger than you and me

You said what you were looking for when getting a phone, yet that's the perspective of a power user. People like my mom, aunts and other people not so into tech don't give a damn and don't even know what LTE is. They don't care if a phone has LTE, they can't even tell you what LTE is or stands for. So it doesn't matter

I guess the question then is, what is the typical Android user like? I tend to surround myself with geeks, so I am not aware of the "typical Android user".

The reason I ask is because I think Windows Phone has a better chance of attracting former Blackberry and possibly former Android users. iPhone users are probably too invested in the App Store/iTunes to switch. Android apps tend to be free, so there would be less "investment". BlackBerry does not have much to speak of in the way of popular apps, so switching is easy.

However, if the "typical Android user" is a geek who likes to root the Android and install custom ROMs, then he/she might not want to switch.

Does anyone have more information about Android users (percent that root/install custom ROMs)?

 

[Los]

I guess the question then is, what is the typical Android user like? I tend to surround myself with geeks, so I am not aware of the "typical Android user".

The reason I ask is because I think Windows Phone has a better chance of attracting former Blackberry and possibly former Android users. iPhone users are probably too invested in the App Store/iTunes to switch. Android apps tend to be free, so there would be less "investment". BlackBerry does not have much to speak of in the way of popular apps, so switching is easy.

However, if the "typical Android user" is a geek who likes to root the Android and install custom ROMs, then he/she might not want to switch.

Does anyone have more information about Android users (percent that root/install custom ROMs)?

That's false cause android didn't get where it's at by power users. It got where it's at cause it's cheap phones ranging from $50 to FREE. The average user doesn't care about high end specs. They just want a cool new phone that works for them. Most of the time it's what the store reps push on them. Like I said before my mom doesn't care about LTE. She's not new to smartphones. She owned the BlackBerry Curve, Samsung Epic 4G and now the Lumia 900 (I saved her from android). You think she got the Epic 4G cause it was 4G? No, you think she got it cause of the high specs at the time? No. She couldn't even tell you what the specs are. She just wanted a cool new phone.

Believe it or not, there's still people even less knowledge than my mom. At least she has prior smartphone experience, there's people who are still amazed about touch screen technology. We are way past that. That's nothing to us. Lol

 

[Laura Knotek]

That's false cause android didn't get where it's at by power users. It got where it's at cause it's cheap phones ranging from $50 to FREE. The average user doesn't care about high end specs. They just want a cool new phone that works for them. Most of the time it's what the store reps push on them. Like I said before my mom doesn't care about LTE. She's not new to smartphones. She owned the BlackBerry Curve, Samsung Epic 4G and now the Lumia 900 (I saved her from android). You think she got the Epic 4G cause it was 4G? No, you think she got it cause of the high specs at the time? No. She couldn't even tell you what the specs are. She just wanted a cool new phone.

Believe it or not, there's still people even less knowledge than my mom. At least she has prior smartphone experience, there's people who are still amazed about touch screen technology. We are way past that. That's nothing to us. Lol

That's cool to know. Like I mentioned, the folks I know are mainly from Linux User Groups and geeky family members/friends (and their equally geeky kids). As a result, I do not have an idea of the Android demographics.

I do know the carriers are promoting specs and especially LTE in the ads. Most people probably have no idea what it is, but when they see ads that say "fast" that's probably all that matters. I would not be surprised if a customer (whether new to smartphones or not) might just go into his carrier's store and say, "I want whatever is fastest."

In a way, the whole smartphone "spec war" reminds me a lot of the PC "processor war" that took place a few years ago.

It is even worse, since the ITU has not clarified the "4G" standard, so most folks have no clue of the difference between HSPA+, LTE, WiMax. The carriers purposely use that to their advantage in misleading ads.

 

[Los]

That's cool to know. Like I mentioned, the folks I know are mainly from Linux User Groups and geeky family members/friends (and their equally geeky kids). As a result, I do not have an idea of the Android demographics.

I do know the carriers are promoting specs and especially LTE in the ads. Most people probably have no idea what it is, but when they see ads that say "fast" that's probably all that matters. I would not be surprised if a customer (whether new to smartphones or not) might just go into his carrier's store and say, "I want whatever is fastest."

In a way, the whole smartphone "spec war" reminds me a lot of the PC "processor war" that took place a few years ago.

It is even worse, since the ITU has not clarified the "4G" standard, so most folks have no clue of the difference between HSPA+, LTE, WiMax. The carriers purposely use that to their advantage in misleading ads.

Exactly, and that's why it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

People here seem to underestimate how well those cheap crappy android phones sell. I see more people with cheap phones like the LG Optimus than I see with iphones or high end androids. Those cheap crappy phones are what drives android marketshare. I mean just look at android update percentage. Most people don't even update their phones, they are a whole lot of people running Froyo 2.2. That alone is telling you the type of people buying android. It's not all power users

 

[trivor]

Whoa! back up for a second there now. Let's make it clear no one is ignoring Sprint or Verizon. It's Sprint and Verizon who choose to ignore WP right now

It doesn't matter to us (the customers of Verizon and Sprint) why there are no WP on our carriers - there just aren't any. This is a HUGE problem if MS wants to build market share. They are missing out on 161 million users (over half the smartphone populations of the US). The longer people spend on Android or iOS the more they get used to the OS and familiarity breeds lockin - if there are shortcomings (I won't debate iOS vs Android vs WP7 on this thread - there are plenty others for that) then people get used to them or find workarounds and to switch requires a huge amount of pain for the user - there are things you will gain and things you will lose (yes, iOS and Android do have some areas of strength over WP7).

 

[Los]

It doesn't matter to us (the customers of Verizon and Sprint) why there are no WP on our carriers - there just aren't any. This is a HUGE problem if MS wants to build market share. They are missing out on 161 million users (over half the smartphone populations of the US). The longer people spend on Android or iOS the more they get used to the OS and familiarity breeds lockin - if there are shortcomings (I won't debate iOS vs Android vs WP7 on this thread - there are plenty others for that) then people get used to them or find workarounds and to switch requires a huge amount of pain for the user - there are things you will gain and things you will lose (yes, iOS and Android do have some areas of strength over WP7).

If you want a phone bad enough, you'll switch

What you think people did when iphone was only with AT&T for all those years? if you wanted an iphone you had to switch to AT&T, and people did. Goes to show if people want it bad enough, they will. Even I switched to AT&T for the Lumia 900. I used to be with Sprint for almost 10 years

 

[Laura Knotek]

Exactly, and that's why it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

People here seem to underestimate how well those cheap crappy android phones sell. I see more people with cheap phones like the LG Optimus than I see with iphones or high end androids. Those cheap crappy phones are what drives android marketshare. I mean just look at android update percentage. Most people don't even update their phones, they are a whole lot of people running Froyo 2.2. That alone is telling you the type of people buying android. It's not all power users

As far as the iPhones go, I know plenty of people who are not at all tech-inclined who have them. Ease of use tends to be the attraction.

Windows Phone is also very easy to use, but I think fewer folks who already have an iPhone would switch to a Windows Phone, mainly due to investment in the ecosystem. I know that even the non-techie types have apps they like and bought.

I'll have to look for the cheap Androids the next time I'm in an AT&T or VZW store. I've never played with any of those. The last Androids I've tried were the Samsung Galaxy SII Skyrocket and the Motorola Atrix2. I did not like either of those, so I'm curious how much worse those cheap devices really are.

Now that you've clarified Android sales and Android users more, I definitely believe former Android users would be great candidates for Windows Phone, and they would probably be more willing to switch than iPhone users.

 

[Los]

Now that you've clarified Android sales and Android users more, I definitely believe former Android users would be great candidates for Windows Phone, and they would probably be more willing to switch than iPhone users.

WP can still win some iPhone users though cause they are alike in ways. Also, a lot people who are growing tired of the stale old iOS UI would appreciate something new and fresh. So I think WP can win over people from both sides. The thing is to advertise it like Nokia and AT&T has, and it'll do just that

 

[tekhna]

As far as the iPhones go, I know plenty of people who are not at all tech-inclined who have them. Ease of use tends to be the attraction.

Windows Phone is also very easy to use, but I think fewer folks who already have an iPhone would switch to a Windows Phone, mainly due to investment in the ecosystem. I know that even the non-techie types have apps they like and bought.

I'll have to look for the cheap Androids the next time I'm in an AT&T or VZW store. I've never played with any of those. The last Androids I've tried were the Samsung Galaxy SII Skyrocket and the Motorola Atrix2. I did not like either of those, so I'm curious how much worse those cheap devices really are.

Now that you've clarified Android sales and Android users more, I definitely believe former Android users would be great candidates for Windows Phone, and they would probably be more willing to switch than iPhone users.

He hasn't clarified Android sales at all. He's convinced you that Android users buy low-end phones, when that's demonstrably untrue.

The very expensive Galaxy SII sold tens of millions of phones. The very expensive Galaxy SIII has sold 9 million in pre-orders and it's not even out yet. Put in perspective, the Galaxy SIII has sold three times more phones in pre-sale than Windows Phone did the entire first quarter of 2012.
The very expensive "niche" Galaxy Note has sold 5 million phones.
And that's just Samsung.

 

[Los]

He hasn't clarified Android sales at all. He's convinced you that Android users buy low-end phones, when that's demonstrably untrue.

The very expensive Galaxy SII sold tens of millions of phones. The very expensive Galaxy SIII has sold 9 million in pre-orders and it's not even out yet. Put in perspective, the Galaxy SIII has sold three times more phones in pre-sale than Windows Phone did the entire first quarter of 2012.
The very expensive "niche" Galaxy Note has sold 5 million phones.
And that's just Samsung.

I never said they " ALL " buy low end phones. The problem is all you " power users " think that only high end phones sell and pushing platforms, when they are not. The truth is a lot of people don't care about that. If we going to gain marketshare we have to win over those casual people who don't care about that and don't have the tech knowledge that we do. Like I said, a lot of people here underestimate how well those cheap devices sell

 

[Jeff Kibuule]

Based on the latest quarterly sales stats from Verizon and AT&T, it's obvious that Android won't be the savior they were looking for and wireless carriers need something to stop the overwhelming sales of the iPhone, lest they be beholden to Apple. Already, the iPhone costs $100 more to subsidize compared to other smartphones, which is coming out of carrier pockets. Plus, they definitely do NOT want to be surprised with another "iMessage" bomb that nuked a good chunk of their SMS revenue.

So we'll probably see a real, honest push with Windows Phone 8 from carriers. Question is whether customers will buy them.

 

[tekhna]

I never said they " ALL " buy low end phones. The problem is all you " power users " think that only high end phones sell and pushing platforms, when they are not. The truth is a lot of people don't care about that. If we going to gain marketshare we have to win over those casual people who don't care about that and don't have the tech knowledge that we do. Like I said, a lot of people here underestimate how well those cheap devices sell

But high-end phones are what sell. Phones are a status symbol. The status symbol is what wins over casual users. That's a huge part of the success of the iPhone--cachet.

 

[Laura Knotek]

If you want a phone bad enough, you'll switch

What you think people did when iphone was only with AT&T for all those years? if you wanted an iphone you had to switch to AT&T, and people did. Goes to show if people want it bad enough, they will. Even I switched to AT&T for the Lumia 900. I used to be with Sprint for almost 10 years

Then again, at that time, there really wasn't anything else with a touchscreen that was compelling. Yes, there was the "clicky screen" Blackberry Storm, but that was probably the worst lemon of a device ever released. Otherwise, the majority of smartphones at the time were candybar or slider devices with physical keypads.

I've had AT&T since it was Cingular. I always thought AT&T or VZW got the "coolest" smartphones first or had the best exclusives. I still believe AT&T and VZW will be the key players in establishing Windows Phone in the US. For example, Android started with T-Mobile and didn't really go anywhere; it took off when VZW started promoting it.

 

[Los]

But high-end phones are what sell. Phones are a status symbol. The status symbol is what wins over casual users. That's a huge part of the success of the iPhone--cachet.

iphone is not even a high end phone. Even when they drop a new one it's still behind a little spec wise. Yes the iphone 4S has a dual core but it's only clocked at 800MHz and only has 512MB of ram like WP phones. The iphone sells cause of apple's strength as a brand and it's whats popular right now

Like I said about my mom, she had the Samsung Epic 4G. That was a high end phone for it's time. She didn't give a damn about the specs. She bought it cause she wanted a cool new phone. You could have possibly sold her anything

 

[Laura Knotek]

I never said they " ALL " buy low end phones. The problem is all you " power users " think that only high end phones sell and pushing platforms, when they are not. The truth is a lot of people don't care about that. If we going to gain marketshare we have to win over those casual people who don't care about that and don't have the tech knowledge that we do. Like I said, a lot of people here underestimate how well those cheap devices sell

I suspect a lot of those cheap devices sold in the US are from prepaid carriers like Boost, Virgin, MetroPCS. Possibly even T-Mobile sells more cheap devices.

Postpaid AT&T/VZW customers might buy more high-end devices, especially since the cost with a 2-yr contract for a high-end device is still less than the cost of buying a cheap device outright and using it on a prepaid plan with Boost/Virgin/MetroPCS.

 

[Laura Knotek]

But high-end phones are what sell. Phones are a status symbol. The status symbol is what wins over casual users. That's a huge part of the success of the iPhone--cachet.

iphone is not even a high end phone. Even when they drop a new one it's still behind a little spec wise. Yes the iphone 4S has a dual core but it's only clocked at 800MHz and only has 512MB of ram like WP phones. The iphone sells cause of apple's strength as a brand and it's whats popular right now

Like I said about my mom, she had the Samsung Epic 4G. That was a high end phone for it's time. She didn't give a damn about the specs. She bought it cause she wanted a cool new phone. You could have possibly sold her anything

One could say the same for all Apple products. Macs really are not anything special in terms of specs. The cost of a Mac is not justified by its hardware. Windows PCs have much better specs if the same price is paid as one would pay for a Mac.

 

[tekhna]

iphone is not even a high end phone. Even when they drop a new one it's still behind a little spec wise. Yes the iphone 4S has a dual core but it's only clocked at 800MHz and only has 512MB of ram like WP phones. The iphone sells cause of apple's strength as a brand and it's whats popular right now

Like I said about my mom, she got the Samsung Epic 4G. That was a high end phone for it's time. She didn't give a damn about the specs. She bought it cause she wanted a cool new phone. You could have possibly sold her anything

Sure, agreed. Android has succeeded though because people like your mom were convinced. Windows Phone has been spectacularly unsuccessful in convincing people it's cool, or high-end, or has any sort of cachet.

 

[Los]

I suspect a lot of those cheap devices sold in the US are from prepaid carriers like Boost, Virgin, MetroPCS. Possibly even T-Mobile sells more cheap devices.

Postpaid AT&T/VZW customers might buy more high-end devices, especially since the cost with a 2-yr contract for a high-end device is still less than the cost of buying a cheap device outright and using it on a prepaid plan with Boost/Virgin/MetroPCS.

Ok I'm convinced your just trying to beat my post count to be back at top of the top posters! Don't compete with me cause I will out post you! LOL

 

[fatclue_98]

It seems as though no matter what the topic is, it always ends up being an Android vs. iOS vs. WP7 thread. Let's concede a few items. (1) Android phones usually have better specs than others, for whatever the reason. (2) iPhone users are "cultish" about their devices, for whatever the reason. (3) Windows Phone users enjoy the simplest, most fluid UI since webOS but nobody seems to care and market share bears that out. Having said all that, I'm going to go out on a limb and declare that for WP7 to survive, much less thrive, in the market place there has to be a concerted effort among its users to demonstrate to anyone who will listen that it behooves them to try WP7. Not because it has better specs. Not because it's cooler. Certainly not because it has more apps. But because it does what you expect a phone to do with a minimum of fuss. You can navigate through it without having to dig through endless menus for the most arcane things. For "power users", the integration of contacts with social media is unrivaled. the integration with MS Office is worlds better than anything out there without having to download any third-party apps.

Microsoft isn't a tech giant by accident. We are not privy to their board meetings and their marketing strategies. Remember something, and this is important, when you first heard about WP7, what was your first reaction? I know what mine was. Yes, Windows Mobile. Resistive touchscreens, stylus-centric UI, freezes, resets, the list goes on. We bought into WP7 on a wing and a prayer and it has paid off. There is no amount of advertising that could possibly drown out the memories of WM. Actually there is, word of mouth. It's up to us who have "seen the light" to get the word out. I consider myself a power user who has an extensive history with smartphones and I'm sold. Are the devices boring? A little (IMO). But compared to a Blackberry, they're downright ravishing. And that's the first target, RIM. Rome wasn't built in a day folks. Sorry for the long-windedness but I needed to get that off my chest.

 

[sentimentGX4]

iphone is not even a high end phone. Even when they drop a new one it's still behind a little spec wise. Yes the iphone 4S has a dual core but it's only clocked at 800MHz and only has 512MB of ram like WP phones. The iphone sells cause of apple's strength as a brand and it's whats popular right now

At this point, I would like to note that the iPhone IS powerful smartphone and arguably the fastest on the market.

Android Phones are, in fact, significantly slower than comparable Apple counterparts because of an poorly written operating system. When benchmarking, the single core iPhone 4 phone performs better than a number of Android dual cores. Despite being an 800 mhz ARM Cortex-A9 dual core, iPhone 4s blows away all the Android dual core ARM Cortex A9 competition!
Tests show iPhone 4S as fastest phone on the market

If trends persist, the iPhone 4s should only be slightly slower than Android quad cores and dual-core ARM Cortex A15s. When the next iPhone launches, it WILL be the fastest device on the market. Let me make it clear now that every iPhone ever launched has been the fastest smartphone on the market when launched, even if it had inferior specs.

Android owners are frequently afraid to admit that their devices are actually significantly slower than the iPhone despite better specs. It is a myth that Android is a power user OS. Android is NOT and will never be a power user OS because it is startlingly inefficient. (Windows Phones do not benchmark well like the iPhone; however.)