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07-04-2012 01:52 PM
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  1. massifheed's Avatar
    The thing about android is that even if a phone doesn't get updated to the latest version, at least it will still get most of the new apps.
    Yup. I couldn't care less about the start screen, if I'm honest. But the app situation does bother me. Since W8 apps will be largely able to work on WP8, I am concerned that that is all that developers (including those big-name apps we've been waiting for on WP) will code for.

    I guess we have to wait and see.
    06-28-2012 08:52 AM
  2. SnailUK's Avatar
    I don't beleive that is the case for a second.
    Why not?

    If WP8 was a nice experience on older devices, Microsoft could keep pumping the original devices out as low end cheap entry points into the market, its well known Nokia are desperate to release dirt cheap phones for emerging markets.

    I doubt Microsoft actually cares about whether someone is buying a top spec HTC, or a bargain basement Nokia, they get a couple of dollars per phone regardless.

    But if it was, they should have said so. Explain to people what is going on, be straight with them and you'll generate a ton of respect.
    Respect is all well and good, but if they openly said it works, but not very well, people would probably be more up in arms, because Microsoft were DEFINITELY holding WP8 back. "Not very well" doesn't stop Apple selling iPhone 3GS's, doesn't mean its the right decision.
    06-28-2012 09:11 AM
  3. snowmutt's Avatar
    If you go to any Android forum or mobile site they are ecstatic about this announcement. In the truth in advertising department, if WP 8 isn't the huge improvement we all expect it to be, I was fine with the thought of an ICS Android. It was a great update over Gingerbread, and I thought the multi-core processors really improved performance on it. Really, the only unknown was how the OEMs UI would act. The only thing most of the Android Army wanted was refinement. Makes sense, as Ice Cream Sandwich hasn't even been brought fully to Market yet.

    But it does seem strange how this announcement all but "kills" any momentum of ICS, just like supposedly the WP8 killed WP7, but Android just gets the pass. Sure, the hacker community is fine, they will root and install what they want. But the average Android user won't.

    Double standard aside, I like the progress of Jelly Bean. But, I still think WP8's upside is higher. Can hardly wait to see it in action when MS does the formal announcement and starts truly showing it off.....
    06-28-2012 11:02 AM
  4. ninjaap's Avatar
    BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :dry This was supposed to be a happy thread! Not a "poor Lumia 900 users" thread. Go get your own thread party poopers! :D
    Old_Cus, aubreyq, HeyCori and 4 others like this.
    06-28-2012 11:29 AM
  5. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Yes. A moral obligation. There is plenty of room for businesses to operate both in their own and their customers best interests. Many successful companies do this every day. If a company acts purely selfishly - and show a level of contempt for the people they are trying to sell to then, in time, customers will stop trusting them and buying their products...

    Sure there's plenty of room but it's still the business' choice. Personally, I think there's only a moral obligation when any practices become abusive or severely restrict a consumer's option. What's happening here wouldn't fall within my definitions on the latter because consumers wouldn't be boxed in from seeking an alternative choice. I digress though.

    Nevertheless, whether MS sees a moral obligation is up to MS and while I can expect consumers expecting some level of respect and fair treatment, I'm not sure many would say that necessarily or goes to or that there is a requirement by companies to accommodate costumers for past products. I mean the same happened when Apple made Snow Leopard Intel only and Apple did nothing to appease the people stuck on Leopard nor do I think or have read that the majority of Apple consumers thought Apple should do anything save the ones still stuck on PPC's.

    In the case of the WP8 upgrade, they knew it was never going to happen to current gen hardware. Several times in interviews etc the question has been put to various MS spokespersons in a direct fashion, and each time they answered with the standard "WP7 apps will work on WP8". That's not an answer to the question asked.

    They knew it was going to hose those people who had just bought new hardware, and they knew that to be the case for months prior. They knew releasing information about there being no WP8 for current gen hardware would destroy sales. So they said nothing, or gave non-answers.

    Because of that, they should make every effort to add all they can to 7.8, so that those that have just bought into Windows Phone aren't left with a phone that isn't going to see a major update in for the life of the device.
    But MS did speak of all that in the summit speech. There was no hiding the ball there.
    06-28-2012 01:43 PM
  6. oldpueblo's Avatar
    I own three Android devices, all purchased just last year and all were newly launched last year. None of them are even getting ICS.

    Aside from that, every company continues to sell their existing products up to (and usually after) the day they launch their new stuff. This is business as usual, what are they supposed to do pull their products from the shelves and have a several month gap where they sell nothing?
    06-29-2012 12:27 AM
  7. mhans311's Avatar
    I own three Android devices, all purchased just last year and all were newly launched last year. None of them are even getting ICS.

    Aside from that, every company continues to sell their existing products up to (and usually after) the day they launch their new stuff. This is business as usual, what are they supposed to do pull their products from the shelves and have a several month gap where they sell nothing?
    These must not be high end phones. I can't think of any high end phones on android that aren't getting ICS.

    Bionic'd from my tapatalk.
    06-29-2012 08:26 AM
  8. selfcreation's Avatar
    Google has hired many of the people that made webOS what it is today.
    dint WebOS also become open source? or was that just rumors of them making it open source?

    if so that's probably why Android adapted allot of its features as well.


    These must not be high end phones. I can't think of any high end phones on android that aren't getting ICS.

    Bionic'd from my tapatalk.

    but there isnt much high end phones. My carrier has 2 high end phones and like 10 entry level Android , hehe
    06-29-2012 08:36 AM
  9. HeyCori's Avatar
    dint WebOS also become open source? or was that just rumors of them making it open source?

    if so that's probably why Android adapted allot of its features as well.





    but there isnt much high end phones. My carrier has 2 high end phones and like 10 entry level Android , hehe
    Yup, WebOS is now open source.
    selfcreation likes this.
    06-29-2012 08:53 AM
  10. bigkevbosky's Avatar
    These must not be high end phones. I can't think of any high end phones on android that aren't getting ICS.

    Bionic'd from my tapatalk.
    Depends on what you mean by high end. The Droid X2 was high end when it launched exactly a year ago (June 2011) and it isn't being updated to ICS.

    HTC Inspire (which I was unfortunate enough to own) was the highest end HTC device you could get when it was released last year (Feb, 2011) and its not getting ICS.

    Just depends on what you define as high end. A LOT of Android phones aren't getting an official ICS update, not to mention Jelly Bean.
    06-29-2012 09:09 AM
  11. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Your talking nonsense. The spec route seems to be working just fine for Android, with over a million devices activated a day. I don't have any more problems with my GSII than I did with my Focus/HD7.

    Bullocks, I've had a GSII since dumping WP7 in Janurary, and I've received two updates from AT&T.

    How do you know about the lifespan of WP7 being longer? They just announced that 2nd gen devices will NOT be getting a update to WP8.
    As I always said from the get-go about Android. If they optimized the software to work well with the hardware, it wouldn't be much of an issue. They wanted to take the spec route and constantly upgrade the specifications of the phones without actually optimizing the software. So the software/Android is complete sh*t, and that's why iOS and WP work so well.

    I've had a Droid Incredible for 2 years, just as long as many of you have had your WP's. The only major update we got on our DInc's was Gingerbread (2.3). For awhile we didn't even get it OTA, or anything. I was already rooted and ROM'd running Cyanogen Mod at this point when Gingerbread became vastly available. People are complaining about not getting the latest.... Android is the worst. Android if I remember correctly more then 60% is still running Froyo or Gingerbread... and none of these phones will even see ICS. Whereas every phone will be up to date on 7.8 for WP and the new phones with W8P.

    WP has a much longer lifespan and a much longer support life then Android will ever have. There are so many Android devices, and they continue to pump out more and more each week. Androids usually last 4 to 6 months, whereas WP's have been holding strong these last 2 years.

    Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have a WP then an Android device any day with those types of statistics. Just talking about the lifespan and updates, and the fragmentation.
    Updates for Android are really just tweeks, because their OS is already mature. WPX has been adding missing features.
    06-29-2012 09:24 AM
  12. ninjaap's Avatar
    How do you know about the lifespan of WP7 being longer? They just announced that 2nd gen devices will NOT be getting a update to WP8.
    That's the half empty announcement all android users chose to hear. What I heard was 100% of WP devices, from 2010 to present will get 7.8. And I'm sure when I upgrade to my WP8 next Aug, it and 100% of WP8 devices will get updated to 8.8 when WP9 devices are released 2 years from now. 100%!!! No less, no more. 100%!!!
    infamousdaveman likes this.
    06-29-2012 11:06 AM
  13. sinime's Avatar
    dint WebOS also become open source? or was that just rumors of them making it open source?

    if so that's probably why Android adapted allot of its features as well.
    I believe it is still in the process of being open open sourced, but the project hasn't been completed yet.
    06-29-2012 11:13 AM
  14. infamousdaveman's Avatar
    That's the half empty announcement all android users chose to hear. What I heard was 100% of WP devices, from 2010 to present will get 7.8. And I'm sure when I upgrade to my WP8 next Aug, it and 100% of WP8 devices will get updated to 8.8 when WP9 devices are released 2 years from now. 100%!!! No less, no more. 100%!!!
    Exactly!! So many android devices arent even close to an ICS update and MAYBE, just MAYBE if they do get it, it will be old news because Jelly Bean will be right around the corner. Like poor bionic users, they are supposed to get ICS around Jelly Beans release date....lol...android...always one good update behind unless you buy a new device...
    06-29-2012 11:58 AM
  15. index1366's Avatar
    Exactly!! So many android devices arent even close to an ICS update and MAYBE, just MAYBE if they do get it, it will be old news because Jelly Bean will be right around the corner. Like poor bionic users, they are supposed to get ICS around Jelly Beans release date....lol...android...always one good update behind unless you buy a new device...
    If you look from the business perspective, updating so old phones with newer versions and optimizing Android for proper running on them is pure waste of money and time. Time? Yes, then they don't have time to optimize the OS for newer phones, because everyone is being busy because of programming for older phones. Waste of everything, just in my opinion.

    Addon edit: Money? Yes, because customers won't buy newer phones, because their current are being updated with newer software. It's all in business and marketing..
    Last edited by index1366; 06-29-2012 at 12:13 PM.
    06-29-2012 12:06 PM
  16. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
    Your talking nonsense. The spec route seems to be working just fine for Android, with over a million devices activated a day. I don't have any more problems with my GSII than I did with my Focus/HD7.
    Yeah, but they never talk about how many of them are actually returned, just activated. ;)

    How do you know about the lifespan of WP7 being longer? They just announced that 2nd gen devices will NOT be getting a update to WP8.
    Because all of the current WP released will be up to date, running 7.8. Not all current Android devices run ICS. Thus, WP7's have a longer lifespan. That's just obvious.

    Updates for Android are really just tweeks, because their OS is already mature. WPX has been adding missing features.
    Android? Mature? Elaborate.


    These must not be high end phones. I can't think of any high end phones on android that aren't getting ICS..
    What is a "high end" phone to you? Because my Droid Inc is as far as I can tell a high end device, and it's not getting ICS.


    At the end of the day, folks. WP > Android. :]
    Last edited by GhoulPhreak; 06-29-2012 at 03:20 PM.
    06-29-2012 03:14 PM
  17. index1366's Avatar
    I think that with "mature", he meant that the OS has already all the functionalities consumers want, and that Google is just tweaking the OS, like polishing, adding new minor tweaks and repairs to it. Or he meant by lifespan, that it is so long on the scene by now, that it integrated into publicity, and it's mature. Windows Phone maybe doesn't have all of the features Android has, and so it isn't mature yet. Dunno how he meant, just my predictions.
    06-29-2012 04:17 PM
  18. ninjaap's Avatar
    Don't mind 1jaxstate1, guys. He left us some months ago and went back to android. He likes to pop in once in a while and troll us :P
    06-29-2012 05:06 PM
  19. chrisz5z's Avatar
    "project butter" is a step in the right direction for Android, and like some of you I'm surprised it took this long for Google to put an emphasis on user experience rather than features. On my Android device (HTC Inspire 4G) there are only a couple custom roms that have the exact same smoothness WP7 does. And it happens due to various tweaks but mainly correct ram management. You'd think Google would take notice of these enhancements their dev community has accomplished and implemented them a long time ago.

    What mainly impressed me about my Lumia 900 was that same smoothness coming from a stock OS, and because it was different from anything else out there.......and yes I still use my HTC Inspire sometimes...

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    06-29-2012 07:50 PM
  20. mud314's Avatar
    I think you guys are nuts. BB10 it's where it's at, y'all. Seriously, I couldn't keep from laughing on that one even myself.

    Having been on all major platforms in the past 13 months, I have to say, WP is by far the smoothest and probably the fastest. Yes, even with "lesser" hardware. Android while versatile is as others have said, laggy. iPhone while nice yes, in my opinion is just boring. WebOS was my fave but we all see where it ended up, the hardware did suck though, I mean 5-8 mins for bootup??? Wow. BBs, they had their time. I tried the 9930 and I must say it was a beauty and handled well, but, well it was a BB. They really had their time, good for some, but really not for me and evidently a few million others.

    So now we enter WP, I came into it by trying to save money and moving to T-Mo with their pre-paid plan. That didn't last long since I couldn't get any service at all where I lived and it does not support Wi-Fi calling. Back to the iPhone for a while and then I could not take it any longer, I tried getting that gigantic but yet aesthetically pleasing Galaxy S3, long story short, VZ messed up orders 3 different x. VZ only has one WP, and you know what, it is still one of the best phones I have used, the HTC Trophy. Slower than my short lived Nokia 710, but still performs a lot better than any of the phones I have used in the past year.

    Certainly looking forward to the 8s, not going to flatter our platform of choice and claim that I will be standing in line, but I will be there when VZ first launches their WP8. Whatever it is.
    06-29-2012 09:04 PM
  21. mhans311's Avatar
    Because all of the current WP released will be up to date, running 7.8. Not all current Android devices run ICS. Thus, WP7's have a longer lifespan. That's just obvious.

    What is a "high end" phone to you? Because my Droid Inc is as far as I can tell a high end device, and it's not getting ICS.


    At the end of the day, folks. WP > Android. :]
    They can give a couple new features and call it 7.8 if they want, but the fact is that most devs are not going to develop for WP 7.8 after WP8 is released. Even if your Android phone isn't on the newest version, it will still be getting app support.

    And no, your 2.5 year old Droid Incredible is not high end.

    I like WP, and I will be interested to see if WP8 lives up to the hype. I hope it does.
    06-29-2012 09:20 PM
  22. AngryNil's Avatar
    I definitely breathed a sigh of relief after I/O announcements. Does anyone know if Key Lime Pie has any chance of dropping in Q4 this year? If so, then Android isn't completely off the radar.

    Regarding Windows Phone 7.x's app situation: asserting that current developers will continue to support 7.x is not really the point. Windows Phone needs higher-quality apps from developers who are not currently on the system, and needs more localised apps and in general, more commonly-used services. If Windows Phone 8 takes off and these apps are published half a year through 2013, why would they still bother supporting 7.x? The new developers are what we should be worried about, because they are the ones who are going to grow the ecosystem so we can match Android and iOS app-to-app.

    Take for an example Facebook's recent announcement to go native on iOS to improve performance. Performance has been the biggest downside of the Windows Phone client - I can see the exact same thing happening here.
    06-29-2012 09:49 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I think you guys are nuts. BB10 it's where it's at, y'all. Seriously, I couldn't keep from laughing on that one even myself.

    Having been on all major platforms in the past 13 months, I have to say, WP is by far the smoothest and probably the fastest. Yes, even with "lesser" hardware. Android while versatile is as others have said, laggy. iPhone while nice yes, in my opinion is just boring. WebOS was my fave but we all see where it ended up, the hardware did suck though, I mean 5-8 mins for bootup??? Wow. BBs, they had their time. I tried the 9930 and I must say it was a beauty and handled well, but, well it was a BB. They really had their time, good for some, but really not for me and evidently a few million others.

    So now we enter WP, I came into it by trying to save money and moving to T-Mo with their pre-paid plan. That didn't last long since I couldn't get any service at all where I lived and it does not support Wi-Fi calling. Back to the iPhone for a while and then I could not take it any longer, I tried getting that gigantic but yet aesthetically pleasing Galaxy S3, long story short, VZ messed up orders 3 different x. VZ only has one WP, and you know what, it is still one of the best phones I have used, the HTC Trophy. Slower than my short lived Nokia 710, but still performs a lot better than any of the phones I have used in the past year.

    Certainly looking forward to the 8s, not going to flatter our platform of choice and claim that I will be standing in line, but I will be there when VZ first launches their WP8. Whatever it is.
    Including myself, everybody I've heard of who had webOS says the same exact thing. Pre hardware blew chunks. No sugar-coating it, it was horrible. Yet we all put up with them because the UI was soooo sweet. Putrid app selection, including the homebrews, and yet we still pine for the OS. I want WP7, 8 or whatever to put those nostalgic feelings behind me, but alas, it ain't happening just yet. I'm keeping an eye on the Open Source Project to see if an OEM licenses it or if some clever devs find a way to port it to one of those fine Android devices. Talk about a Porsche on bicycle tires. I'm glad Google didn't buy out webOS from HP, they would have scavenged the good stuff and called it Banana Split or some other dessert.
    Bee Mon and mud314 like this.
    06-29-2012 11:20 PM
  24. Bee Mon's Avatar
    Ok enuff is enuff with the poor Lumia users talk. People seem to forget that we "poor Lumia" users will still be getting bunches of exclusive apps and games from Nokia. So for those that are not Lumia owners, stop feeling pity for us and for those that are, stop whining. If other developers choose to jump the bandwagon the moment WP8 comes out, so what? This only gives another chance to Nokia to show us how well it takes care of its existing customers and why we should be buying their tablets and WP8 devices from them instead of the others.
    Last edited by Bee Mon; 06-30-2012 at 05:39 AM.
    HeyCori, Just Visiting and ninjaap like this.
    06-30-2012 05:34 AM
  25. Bee Mon's Avatar
    Your talking nonsense. The spec route seems to be working just fine for Android, with over a million devices activated a day.
    A million Android devices activated a day means nothing unless they are actually buying the new phones. I'm curious, did Google announce details on which phones were activated? I'm from an Asian country and I seen people dumping old Android phones off the back of a van wrapped in black plastic bags to clueless users for 20 bucks here everyday. These people don't even know exactly what they are buying. They just know its an "android phone" than can "run facebook" and they can "play angry birds" on it. Most of them will never buy anything off the app store. If they had the money anyway, they would have bought an iPhone not an Android.
    06-30-2012 06:21 AM
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