Suddenly my WP7 doesnt seem so obsolete after Android's latest announcement

InfectedPhreak

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A lot of WP user's frustration with the 7.8/8 situation is that MS seemingly made a big thing about fragmentation not being an issue on WP, and then they go ahead and fragment the OS. And not even in a small version-number-type way. It's a completely different kernel.

Fragmentation still isn't an issue for WP, From what I see of it... Once those 2 year contracts are up people will be switching to WP8's or when they get their upgrade. I call that a roll over period, not fragmentation. It's playing catch up, pretty much.


To be fair, I think that Gen 1 WP users have been well served with Mango, and now with 7.8, but I can't help but feel sympathy for the 900 owners who aren't techies (ie - who didn't research the hazy upgrade issue first) and who may have been misled at time of sale, who are now finding out that their new phone is getting a kind of partial upgrade designed - let's be honest - to placate them and other WP owners.

I think those of who that have been interested in WP, and didn't impulsively buy the new L900 or T2... They should of known that WP8 was coming out in just a few months. I feel no sympathy for those individuals that KNEW it was coming, and what to possibly expect.

As for those non-techies, that were just looking for a new phone to pick up and get into the ecosystem the L900/T2 are still amazing phones. They will do them justice, and when their upgrade is available like everyone else, they'll get a W8P if they enjoy the WP OS.

MS could, and should, have cleared up the WP8 upgrade issue months ago when it was first raised (they would have been clear about the situation internally even long before that). They didn't do it because it would have killed sales of WP7.5 handsets. In anyones reasonable view, that is a decision made for the benefit of MS, to the detrement of it's customers. I would even go so far as to say it was dishonest, in that it was a case of witholding information in order not to affect sales.

I agree with this, but I also disagree. I think it was a good business play by them, due to the fact that WP is already in the gutter trailing behind with barely 10% of the market share. Now, if they wanted to throw this out into the wind... and said "Listen, no WP8 to current devices but there will be devices released later on with WP8"... People would of completely stopped by into the OS, and just waited. That few months or so without people buying WP7.5 phones, would of destroyed even more market placement... or they would bought into other OS's and then WP would of been completely SOL.


That's why - and I've said it before - I think they have a moral obligation to make sure that the 7.8 upgrade has all the non-hardware-reliant features of WP8. There is no reason why they couldn't do that.

Moral obligation? It's a business, and business don't play with morals or obligations. They will do what they want to do. As far as the details go, a lot of the new features for WP8 are with the new dual-cores and new kernel. So I don't really see many features from WP8 coming to 7.8 other then the new start screen. I could be completely wrong, but after all the details that are sprouting up all over the place about the new features of WP8 it seems core dependent and more then likely wont show up on WP7.8


If 7.8 is feature-packed, then I don't I don't think that anyone could have any major complaints - after all who cares about the name? But if it's just going to be the start screen update (and, looking at how MS are making such a big issue of the start screen, I would think it pretty much is) then I think it'll cost them more in bad publicity and reputation that it would have done to make the 7.8 update match WP8 in all but hardware-dependant features.

Microsoft is already buried when it comes to publicity and reputation, at least they have the balls to flat out drown themselves and publicly execute themselves.
 

index1366

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Existing driver code integration into WP8.. Not sure either how possible this is either, but they may have some ideas. We'll see.
 

SnailUK

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MS could, and should, have cleared up the WP8 upgrade issue months ago when it was first raised (they would have been clear about the situation internally even long before that). They didn't do it because it would have killed sales of WP7.5 handsets. In anyones reasonable view, that is a decision made for the benefit of MS, to the detrement of it's customers. I would even go so far as to say it was dishonest, in that it was a case of witholding information in order not to affect sales.
I agree with this, but I also disagree. I think it was a good business play by them, due to the fact that WP is already in the gutter trailing behind with barely 10% of the market share. Now, if they wanted to throw this out into the wind... and said "Listen, no WP8 to current devices but there will be devices released later on with WP8"... People would of completely stopped by into the OS, and just waited. That few months or so without people buying WP7.5 phones, would of destroyed even more market placement... or they would bought into other OS's and then WP would of been completely SOL.

Got to agree. Would Nokia have got onboard with WP, if they'd have been told they'd have 6-9 months of almost no sales? I bet they are annoyed by ~3 months of no sales.

If Microsoft had killed WP7 months ago, the OS would be dead in the water, as would WP8 and every single WP7 owner would have reason to be annoyed, rather than just the recent adopters.

The also assumes Microsoft havn't spent the last couple of months trying to make WP8 play nice on the WP7 hardware, and only recently admitted defeat.

The absolute PR disaster would be if in 6 months time, the hackers have managed to get WP8 running on our current gen hardware, and it runs well.
 

massifheed

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Moral obligation? It's a business...

Yes. A moral obligation. There is plenty of room for businesses to operate both in their own and their customers best interests. Many successful companies do this every day. If a company acts purely selfishly - and show a level of contempt for the people they are trying to sell to then, in time, customers will stop trusting them and buying their products. To an extent, this may be why MS has trouble gaining traction with new products like Zune and WP. Think back to Windows ME and Vista. Awful products, rushed to market. Then think that they would have cost the customer approx ?80 for a copy. It won't do your reputation much good to charge someone ?80 for an OS that is widely regarded as being terrible.

In the case of the WP8 upgrade, they knew it was never going to happen to current gen hardware. Several times in interviews etc the question has been put to various MS spokespersons in a direct fashion, and each time they answered with the standard "WP7 apps will work on WP8". That's not an answer to the question asked.

They knew it was going to hose those people who had just bought new hardware, and they knew that to be the case for months prior. They knew releasing information about there being no WP8 for current gen hardware would destroy sales. So they said nothing, or gave non-answers.

Because of that, they should make every effort to add all they can to 7.8, so that those that have just bought into Windows Phone aren't left with a phone that isn't going to see a major update in for the life of the device.

I agree with those who have little sympathy for people who knew the situation yet still bought a WP, and are now complaining. There's no excuse there.

But there's no reason why MS couldn't have been straight with people early on, but still push the new 7.5 devices as the great phones that they are. But then, I think MS have been pretty dire with the marketing of WP right from the start.
 

massifheed

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The also assumes Microsoft havn't spent the last couple of months trying to make WP8 play nice on the WP7 hardware, and only recently admitted defeat.

I don't beleive that is the case for a second. But if it was, they should have said so. Explain to people what is going on, be straight with them and you'll generate a ton of respect.
 

massifheed

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The thing about android is that even if a phone doesn't get updated to the latest version, at least it will still get most of the new apps.

Yup. I couldn't care less about the start screen, if I'm honest. But the app situation does bother me. Since W8 apps will be largely able to work on WP8, I am concerned that that is all that developers (including those big-name apps we've been waiting for on WP) will code for.

I guess we have to wait and see.
 

SnailUK

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I don't beleive that is the case for a second.

Why not?

If WP8 was a nice experience on older devices, Microsoft could keep pumping the original devices out as low end cheap entry points into the market, its well known Nokia are desperate to release dirt cheap phones for emerging markets.

I doubt Microsoft actually cares about whether someone is buying a top spec HTC, or a bargain basement Nokia, they get a couple of dollars per phone regardless.

But if it was, they should have said so. Explain to people what is going on, be straight with them and you'll generate a ton of respect.

Respect is all well and good, but if they openly said it works, but not very well, people would probably be more up in arms, because Microsoft were DEFINITELY holding WP8 back. "Not very well" doesn't stop Apple selling iPhone 3GS's, doesn't mean its the right decision.
 

snowmutt

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If you go to any Android forum or mobile site they are ecstatic about this announcement. In the truth in advertising department, if WP 8 isn't the huge improvement we all expect it to be, I was fine with the thought of an ICS Android. It was a great update over Gingerbread, and I thought the multi-core processors really improved performance on it. Really, the only unknown was how the OEMs UI would act. The only thing most of the Android Army wanted was refinement. Makes sense, as Ice Cream Sandwich hasn't even been brought fully to Market yet.

But it does seem strange how this announcement all but "kills" any momentum of ICS, just like supposedly the WP8 killed WP7, but Android just gets the pass. Sure, the hacker community is fine, they will root and install what they want. But the average Android user won't.

Double standard aside, I like the progress of Jelly Bean. But, I still think WP8's upside is higher. Can hardly wait to see it in action when MS does the formal announcement and starts truly showing it off.....
 

ninjaap

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BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :dry This was supposed to be a happy thread! Not a "poor Lumia 900 users" thread. Go get your own thread party poopers! :D
 

blehblehbleh

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Yes. A moral obligation. There is plenty of room for businesses to operate both in their own and their customers best interests. Many successful companies do this every day. If a company acts purely selfishly - and show a level of contempt for the people they are trying to sell to then, in time, customers will stop trusting them and buying their products...


Sure there's plenty of room but it's still the business' choice. Personally, I think there's only a moral obligation when any practices become abusive or severely restrict a consumer's option. What's happening here wouldn't fall within my definitions on the latter because consumers wouldn't be boxed in from seeking an alternative choice. I digress though.

Nevertheless, whether MS sees a moral obligation is up to MS and while I can expect consumers expecting some level of respect and fair treatment, I'm not sure many would say that necessarily or goes to or that there is a requirement by companies to accommodate costumers for past products. I mean the same happened when Apple made Snow Leopard Intel only and Apple did nothing to appease the people stuck on Leopard nor do I think or have read that the majority of Apple consumers thought Apple should do anything save the ones still stuck on PPC's.

In the case of the WP8 upgrade, they knew it was never going to happen to current gen hardware. Several times in interviews etc the question has been put to various MS spokespersons in a direct fashion, and each time they answered with the standard "WP7 apps will work on WP8". That's not an answer to the question asked.

They knew it was going to hose those people who had just bought new hardware, and they knew that to be the case for months prior. They knew releasing information about there being no WP8 for current gen hardware would destroy sales. So they said nothing, or gave non-answers.

Because of that, they should make every effort to add all they can to 7.8, so that those that have just bought into Windows Phone aren't left with a phone that isn't going to see a major update in for the life of the device.

But MS did speak of all that in the summit speech. There was no hiding the ball there.
 

oldpueblo

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I own three Android devices, all purchased just last year and all were newly launched last year. None of them are even getting ICS.

Aside from that, every company continues to sell their existing products up to (and usually after) the day they launch their new stuff. This is business as usual, what are they supposed to do pull their products from the shelves and have a several month gap where they sell nothing?
 

mhans311

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I own three Android devices, all purchased just last year and all were newly launched last year. None of them are even getting ICS.

Aside from that, every company continues to sell their existing products up to (and usually after) the day they launch their new stuff. This is business as usual, what are they supposed to do pull their products from the shelves and have a several month gap where they sell nothing?

These must not be high end phones. I can't think of any high end phones on android that aren't getting ICS.

Bionic'd from my tapatalk.
 

selfcreation

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Google has hired many of the people that made webOS what it is today.

dint WebOS also become open source? or was that just rumors of them making it open source?

if so that's probably why Android adapted allot of its features as well.


These must not be high end phones. I can't think of any high end phones on android that aren't getting ICS.

Bionic'd from my tapatalk.


but there isnt much high end phones. My carrier has 2 high end phones and like 10 entry level Android , hehe
 

HeyCori

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dint WebOS also become open source? or was that just rumors of them making it open source?

if so that's probably why Android adapted allot of its features as well.





but there isnt much high end phones. My carrier has 2 high end phones and like 10 entry level Android , hehe

Yup, WebOS is now open source.
 

bigkevbosky

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These must not be high end phones. I can't think of any high end phones on android that aren't getting ICS.

Bionic'd from my tapatalk.

Depends on what you mean by high end. The Droid X2 was high end when it launched exactly a year ago (June 2011) and it isn't being updated to ICS.

HTC Inspire (which I was unfortunate enough to own) was the highest end HTC device you could get when it was released last year (Feb, 2011) and its not getting ICS.

Just depends on what you define as high end. A LOT of Android phones aren't getting an official ICS update, not to mention Jelly Bean.
 

1jaxstate1

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Your talking nonsense. The spec route seems to be working just fine for Android, with over a million devices activated a day. I don't have any more problems with my GSII than I did with my Focus/HD7.

Bullocks, I've had a GSII since dumping WP7 in Janurary, and I've received two updates from AT&T.

How do you know about the lifespan of WP7 being longer? They just announced that 2nd gen devices will NOT be getting a update to WP8.
As I always said from the get-go about Android. If they optimized the software to work well with the hardware, it wouldn't be much of an issue. They wanted to take the spec route and constantly upgrade the specifications of the phones without actually optimizing the software. So the software/Android is complete sh*t, and that's why iOS and WP work so well.

I've had a Droid Incredible for 2 years, just as long as many of you have had your WP's. The only major update we got on our DInc's was Gingerbread (2.3). For awhile we didn't even get it OTA, or anything. I was already rooted and ROM'd running Cyanogen Mod at this point when Gingerbread became vastly available. People are complaining about not getting the latest.... Android is the worst. Android if I remember correctly more then 60% is still running Froyo or Gingerbread... and none of these phones will even see ICS. Whereas every phone will be up to date on 7.8 for WP and the new phones with W8P.

WP has a much longer lifespan and a much longer support life then Android will ever have. There are so many Android devices, and they continue to pump out more and more each week. Androids usually last 4 to 6 months, whereas WP's have been holding strong these last 2 years.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have a WP then an Android device any day with those types of statistics. Just talking about the lifespan and updates, and the fragmentation.

Updates for Android are really just tweeks, because their OS is already mature. WPX has been adding missing features.
 

ninjaap

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How do you know about the lifespan of WP7 being longer? They just announced that 2nd gen devices will NOT be getting a update to WP8.

That's the half empty announcement all android users chose to hear. What I heard was 100% of WP devices, from 2010 to present will get 7.8. And I'm sure when I upgrade to my WP8 next Aug, it and 100% of WP8 devices will get updated to 8.8 when WP9 devices are released 2 years from now. 100%!!! No less, no more. 100%!!!
 

sinime

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dint WebOS also become open source? or was that just rumors of them making it open source?

if so that's probably why Android adapted allot of its features as well.

I believe it is still in the process of being open open sourced, but the project hasn't been completed yet.
 

infamousdaveman

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That's the half empty announcement all android users chose to hear. What I heard was 100% of WP devices, from 2010 to present will get 7.8. And I'm sure when I upgrade to my WP8 next Aug, it and 100% of WP8 devices will get updated to 8.8 when WP9 devices are released 2 years from now. 100%!!! No less, no more. 100%!!!
Exactly!! So many android devices arent even close to an ICS update and MAYBE, just MAYBE if they do get it, it will be old news because Jelly Bean will be right around the corner. Like poor bionic users, they are supposed to get ICS around Jelly Beans release date....lol...android...always one good update behind unless you buy a new device...
 

index1366

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Exactly!! So many android devices arent even close to an ICS update and MAYBE, just MAYBE if they do get it, it will be old news because Jelly Bean will be right around the corner. Like poor bionic users, they are supposed to get ICS around Jelly Beans release date....lol...android...always one good update behind unless you buy a new device...

If you look from the business perspective, updating so old phones with newer versions and optimizing Android for proper running on them is pure waste of money and time. Time? Yes, then they don't have time to optimize the OS for newer phones, because everyone is being busy because of programming for older phones. Waste of everything, just in my opinion.

Addon edit: Money? Yes, because customers won't buy newer phones, because their current are being updated with newer software. It's all in business and marketing..
 
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