08-12-2012 04:21 PM
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  1. btgusto's Avatar
    I truly believe WP will have a huge jump in sales before 2014 comes. 2013 will be big IF MS and Nokia keeps churning out visually appealing products.

    I believe W8 will help to boost the sales of WP being able to sync between windows products will be huge.
    Devs will bring more apps to our marketplace which will always help.
    New features will help sales
    Launch partners bringing new cool phones not just rebranding of androids
    RIM is dying; bringing more people our way
    IT likes windows better
    Xbox/smartglass
    New Xbox music

    Those are the things I think will bring more people to WP.
    07-12-2012 11:15 PM
  2. Winterfang's Avatar
    I enjoy quality over quantity but some apps are terrible. Look at Slacker Radio? its so bad it deserves his own topic. And what about the apps that are not there like Pandora, Live profile, Temple run? Lets no defend Windows Phone abysmal app selection.

    WP8 better blow our minds.
    07-13-2012 12:01 AM
  3. vp710's Avatar
    I enjoy quality over quantity but some apps are terrible. Look at Slacker Radio? its so bad it deserves his own topic. And what about the apps that are not there like Pandora, Live profile, Temple run? Lets no defend Windows Phone abysmal app selection.

    WP8 better blow our minds.
    I'm sorry but it's clear MANY apps are miles better on WP than on iOS or Android. As proof: Which Looks Better? A Comparison Between Popular Apps on iOS and Windows Phone | Pocketnow and Which Looks Better? A Comparison Between Popular Apps on Android and Windows Phone | Pocketnow.

    But I agree with you on the other points: apps are lacking, games are really expensive, and the hardware could generally be better. But it's coming.
    07-13-2012 12:09 AM
  4. sdreamer's Avatar
    I think there's some things to consider. The article posted today was just considering marketshare. There's a reason why Android dominates that, and it's because they're on every device out there, and people don't even know what Android is but still buy that device. That's why even if Android still dominates marketshare, mindshare is still Apple's. You don't hear is that an "Android?" It's more like is that that Samsung I saw on TV, etc.
    With that, I think mindshare is what Microsoft needs to penetrate. I think to do this, they will need a long term flagship live of devices, this is where Nokia steps in, but right now the timing is horrible. WP finally has a flagship device, great reviews, great customer satisfaction, even Siri seems to agree, but with the news of WP8, Microsoft essentially shot it down, and delayed penetrating people's thoughts till the next Nokia device comes out.
    So why hasn't Windows Phone caught on? IMO, no flagship device to define it at launch. Without that, there isn't anything to identify Windows Phone to, there is no iconic design to put the consumer's mind to Windows Phone.

    One can argue apps, and it is valid, but I think that this is more of a tertiary factor to the handset availability of a flagship device and multiple devices, and also mindshare through advertisement. Once you get the device to define your product, you need to advertise it so people can see that device and start to build that association between device and name. After that, people will ask about it, thus creating the mindshare that I assume devs want (hence why even though Android doubles the marketshare of Apple, Apple's iOS still gets strong dev support, because people know iPhone, but people don't know Android), thus getting devs to develope for that flagship phone. Microsoft is killing all three of these things, starting with announcing the Lumia 900 will not be getting WP8 (kills their current flagship after a few months), then with advertising their phone leaving it in the hands of AT&T and Nokia (AT&T is basically just making cameo appearance of the Lumia, but not even mentioning it really, leaving Nokia doing all of it, but not with the same firepower that Verizon had with "Droid"), thus not getting that mindshare that devs are looking for.
    Hopefully with the release of the Windows 8 family we'll see a more unified approached. I think it will be easier to market these things because they all do the same things in different ways. Bing is the basis of their search engine, the Metro interface runnnig on everything making a unified, and consistent UI. It's up to Microsoft at that time to advertise if they want to penetrate the market.
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-13-2012 12:40 AM
  5. Winterfang's Avatar
    I'm sorry but it's clear MANY apps are miles better on WP than on iOS or Android. As proof: Which Looks Better? A Comparison Between Popular Apps on iOS and Windows Phone | Pocketnow and Which Looks Better? A Comparison Between Popular Apps on Android and Windows Phone | Pocketnow.

    But I agree with you on the other points: apps are lacking, games are really expensive, and the hardware could generally be better. But it's coming.
    Yes they look better but that's not everything. Not if it lacks features and under performs. Slacker Radio looks amazing and it has the ability to pin your own radio stations but it's so jerky and laggy and it takes so long to start that borders on unusable. I open the app and the music starts playing halfway my commute, is unacceptable.
    07-13-2012 12:51 AM
  6. snowmutt's Avatar
    WP will not burst onto the scene because the market is not in the same place it was when the iPhone or Android hit the market where tons of people were willing to move to a mobile device with data plans and such. Now it's a war or attrition and who can bring the most to the field. MS will have to earn back mind share with people over time with good products, services, and aggressive pricing.
    Wiser words were never spoken.

    As someone who loves being a fan but tries to be realistic, we need to understand: Mobile is no longer a DEVELOPING market for cell phones, it is an ESTABLISHED market. The wide-open, dying for the right product world of Mobile that saw the instant success of the iPhone, raging fan-dom of BlackBerry, and quick rise of Android no longer exists. Those that love their smart phones have them, and have gotten used to them. Those that haven't use feature phones and could care less. Why does everyone think Nokia wanted Tango so bad? There are only a couple underdeveloped markets, and you have to grab them.

    How is WP going to chip away at the established users? Microsoft does have two well established advantages:
    1) They have tons of money from other sources, so they can afford to be patient.
    2) They have a huge ecosystem for WP8 to draw from- gaming, music, cloud, PC/laptops. soon tablets (which IS still a wide open market), ECT...

    WebOS couldn't make inroads, neither could Bada. This is why I am not putting any money on Tizen being a success, nor am I hopeful for the MeeGo developers trying to market a N9 follow up on their own, though I do respect them and was really impressed with the N9. For that matter, I am not even that sure Amazon can break through with a smart phone. WP8 has the best shot to develop, and BB10 has a shot to stay revelent. But it is not an easy, quick path, and both could fail in the face of the dynamic duo.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    07-13-2012 02:02 AM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    Within the current cycle, I can't see either bb10 or wp8 dislodging android or IOS. The big problem with Microsoft is that it's always what is coming tomorrow that will be the big winner and it never is.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    07-13-2012 05:51 AM
  8. 12Danny123's Avatar
    Within the current cycle, I can't see either bb10 or wp8 dislodging android or IOS. The big problem with Microsoft is that it's always what is coming tomorrow that will be the big winner and it never is.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    But Wp8 sales will likely be way way better than Wp7 sales. I suspect 15%-20% market share is better for Wp
    07-13-2012 06:43 AM
  9. mb-dape's Avatar
    Yes they look better but that's not everything. Not if it lacks features and under performs. Slacker Radio looks amazing and it has the ability to pin your own radio stations but it's so jerky and laggy and it takes so long to start that borders on unusable. I open the app and the music starts playing halfway my commute, is unacceptable.
    A deal breaker for me was that Spotify was available for WP when I bought my Titan. I think it was developed by Microsoft to get sales going in Europe. It looks stunning! The interface is so beautiful and smooth. Even the latest Spotify client for Android looks so dated in comparison. BUT Spotify on the WP is totally buggy and bad, it's more frustrating then fun to use it. Even Spotify on my Symbian phone which is 4-5 years old works better. And the WP7 version lacks features as Extreme quality etc. Actually it hasn't been updated ONCE since the release and will probably never will with WP8 coming.
    07-13-2012 07:07 AM
  10. cgk's Avatar
    But Wp8 sales will likely be way way better than Wp7 sales. I suspect 15%-20% market share is better for Wp
    That's a faith based post - there is nothing at the moment to suggest that WP8 will reach 20% market-share, nothing.
    07-13-2012 08:02 AM
  11. HeyCori's Avatar
    Small picture, it seems like WP isn't doing too bad. Look at some recent announcements.

    Sales remain strong after WP8 announcement.
    900 finally loses second place last month.
    800 4th best selling smartphone on Telenor

    But when you look at the big picture, it doesn't seem like the solid sale numbers are adding up to anything. I think part of the reason is that market growth is outpacing sales of Windows Phones, with iOS and Android gaining most of the new-to-smartphone customers.
    07-13-2012 08:41 AM
  12. jmerrey's Avatar
    But Wp8 sales will likely be way way better than Wp7 sales. I suspect 15%-20% market share is better for Wp
    Why? Give me some reasons. Not, "people are tired of iphones" or "iphones suck" but concrete reasons. In two years, the wp7 marketshare hasn't made a dent.

    And don't say "it's connection with windows 8" because this isn't 1997. People see the apple OS as a viable alternative to windows. The days that ms could hang it's hat on the latest windows os are gone.

    The best case scenario for wp8 is if nokia releases a phone with something that the other phones just don't have, aka a killer, pureview camera, and they release it to all the major carriers. Not an 8mp camera, but something like the 41mp camera. I think people would be wowed by that, and maybe it would draw some attention.
    Last edited by jmerrey; 07-13-2012 at 09:27 AM.
    07-13-2012 09:22 AM
  13. HeyCori's Avatar
    And don't say "it's connection with windows 8" because this isn't 1997. People see the apple OS as a viable alternative to windows. The days that ms could hang it's hat on the latest windows os are gone.
    Got any facts to back your claim? Last I checked Windows 7 continues (as in present tense) to be a massive success.
    07-13-2012 09:28 AM
  14. jmerrey's Avatar
    Got any facts to back your claim? Last I checked Windows 7 continues (as in present tense) to be a massive success.
    Windows 7 is a massive success. I would imagine that the windows os outsells the apple os by a huge margin.

    I'm saying that consumers and business people see apple as a viable alternative now, whereas 10 years ago it was viewed as a niche product, especially in the business world. My father's IT company gets constant requests from his customers about switching to apple. All I'm saying is that the implied connection between win 8 and wp8 isn't going to be the factor that drives growth.
    07-13-2012 09:51 AM
  15. based_graham's Avatar
    Why? Give me some reasons. Not, "people are tired of iphones" or "iphones suck" but concrete reasons. In two years, the wp7 marketshare hasn't made a dent.

    And don't say "it's connection with windows 8" because this isn't 1997. People see the apple OS as a viable alternative to windows. The days that ms could hang it's hat on the latest windows os are gone.

    The best case scenario for wp8 is if nokia releases a phone with something that the other phones just don't have, aka a killer, pureview camera, and they release it to all the major carriers. Not an 8mp camera, but something like the 41mp camera. I think people would be wowed by that, and maybe it would draw some attention.
    Its hard to make a big splash

    WP are only available on T-Mobile and AT&T
    T-Mobile = 1 handset
    ATT = 3 handset
    Verizon, Sprint and other carriers = No phones

    WP8 should change that
    07-13-2012 10:53 AM
  16. based_graham's Avatar
    Windows 7 is a massive success. I would imagine that the windows os outsells the apple os by a huge margin.

    I'm saying that consumers and business people see apple as a viable alternative now, whereas 10 years ago it was viewed as a niche product, especially in the business world. My father's IT company gets constant requests from his customers about switching to apple. All I'm saying is that the implied connection between win 8 and wp8 isn't going to be the factor that drives growth.
    I get that all the time for start-up's its possible but for enterprise Windows all the way. Windows backend services is far greater than what Apple has to offer.
    07-13-2012 10:57 AM
  17. based_graham's Avatar
    Within the current cycle, I can't see either bb10 or wp8 dislodging android or IOS. The big problem with Microsoft is that it's always what is coming tomorrow that will be the big winner and it never is.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    WP8 can make a huge dent in Android's marketshare. Look at Android's satisfaction ratings there is a lot of room to attack that especially with aggressive pricing and awesome phones.
    07-13-2012 10:58 AM
  18. based_graham's Avatar
    Windows Phone 8 might be totally awesome. That's why I can't way to see all the features and hot new phones.

    Windows Phone 7? Garbage, inexcusable in every way. Outdated phones, barely above feature phone features, short list of apps, apps are terrible, apps are twice, three times as expensive for no reason whatsoever, hot games are nonexistant, games look like they where from games in 2006. Yet the have the audacity to ask us full price.

    I for once, can't wait for that to change.
    Depending how you look at it but due to Windows CE limitations WP is built around experience rather than features.

    MS goal was to make simple things like Social Networking, Taking Pictures, Gaming, Access to Music, Maps and Navigation easy and simple to the front end user. Its not a PC in your pockets but a device that compliments your PC.
    07-13-2012 11:06 AM
  19. the_tyrant's Avatar
    Windows phone is great for 90% of the things you do.
    It lacks the 10%.

    Thing is, Andriod does all the advanced stuff amazingly well, but it sucks with the basics.

    And that is why I still carry my symbian, I'm trying to get a Pureview too.
    07-13-2012 11:26 AM
  20. TaliZorah's Avatar
    I honestly don't care how popular it is. I love it and just as long as it's supported by somebody, somewhere I will be there with it.

    I can't stand anything google or apple. Personal reasons.
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-13-2012 11:37 AM
  21. TaliZorah's Avatar
    Windows phone is great for 90% of the things you do.
    It lacks the 10%.

    Thing is, Andriod does all the advanced stuff amazingly well, but it sucks with the basics.

    And that is why I still carry my symbian, I'm trying to get a Pureview too.
    Well said. Android can do A LOT. However it's buggy as crap. People just deal with it to have something that can compete with the iPhone. The iPhone? Unless you love not being able to customize and being stuck with one brand who controls everything your device can or cannot do then there is no reason to have one.

    WP7 is a happy medium in my opinion. It's simple, its somewhat customizeable, it has all the basic things a smartphone should have and it does those things very well. If you are an app junkie then yeah, it's probably not the best thing for you but it does have all the basic apps that a smarphone needs or should have. There just aren't many choices.

    My favorite things about WP7 are the web-browsing (it's unmatched and every review site knows it), the linked inboxes and the Xbox Live integration. Those three things alone brought me back to WP7. Android has some serious issues when trying to sync multilpe inbox's from different providers at the same time I don't care what app you are using. iPhone is a grea media device and if you take lots of pix and your phone is your MP3 player then it's a good thing for you.

    But as a browser and gaming device WP7 wins.

    P.S. Before anybody says anything about the graphics on games for WP7 yes, I know iPhone can do better but some of us care more about having integrated Xbox Live than graphics.
    Last edited by TaliZorah; 07-13-2012 at 11:56 AM.
    HeyCori likes this.
    07-13-2012 11:43 AM
  22. diapers's Avatar
    I don't know what you mean by "requirement". The main problem for Windows Phone is it does nothing unique.

    Most new entrants when they choose to buy a smartphone will gravitate towards the most popular and dominating phone, which would be iPhone or Android. The majority of the time if someone buys a Windows Phone it is because they have tried iPhone or Android and did not like it or want something new, not because Windows Phone is so much better than the rest.

    The main strength (usability) is not really evident until you use something worse. If someone tries the iPhone or Android and *likes* it they won't buy a Windows Phone. Remember these are 400$+ devices that have 2-3 year contracts, and chances are when they are up for a new phone they would choose something they are already familiar with.

    It's an uphill battle for any new entrants with the marketshare iPhone and Android have built, same problem with anyone trying to enter the PC market with the amount of domination Windows has.

    The key it seems is either to enter the market before everyone else does, or enter the market and leapfrog it with innovation, nothing of which I saw with WP8. It's just another "me too" device.
    07-13-2012 11:56 AM
  23. TaliZorah's Avatar
    Windows Phone 8 might be totally awesome. That's why I can't way to see all the features and hot new phones.

    Windows Phone 7? Garbage, inexcusable in every way. Outdated phones, barely above feature phone features, short list of apps, apps are terrible, apps are twice, three times as expensive for no reason whatsoever, hot games are nonexistant, games look like they where from games in 2006. Yet the have the audacity to ask us full price.

    I for once, can't wait for that to change.
    I don't know what twisted you the wrong way about WP7 but you need to calm down about it. The games look like they are from 2006... on a console. For a phone they are pretty darn good. And I hope you are kidding about the "full-price" comment because outside of Final Fantasy most games are pretty darn cheap.... Unless you really think $5 for an Xbox Live game is expensive. HA!
    07-13-2012 12:37 PM
  24. based_graham's Avatar
    I don't know what you mean by "requirement". The main problem for Windows Phone is it does nothing unique.

    Most new entrants when they choose to buy a smartphone will gravitate towards the most popular and dominating phone, which would be iPhone or Android. The majority of the time if someone buys a Windows Phone it is because they have tried iPhone or Android and did not like it or want something new, not because Windows Phone is so much better than the rest.

    The main strength (usability) is not really evident until you use something worse. If someone tries the iPhone or Android and *likes* it they won't buy a Windows Phone. Remember these are 400$+ devices that have 2-3 year contracts, and chances are when they are up for a new phone they would choose something they are already familiar with.

    It's an uphill battle for any new entrants with the marketshare iPhone and Android have built, same problem with anyone trying to enter the PC market with the amount of domination Windows has.

    The key it seems is either to enter the market before everyone else does, or enter the market and leapfrog it with innovation, nothing of which I saw with WP8. It's just another "me too" device.
    Are you kidding me?

    WP8 is going to have by far one of the best Enterprise ready features on a smartphone which means its easier to recommend a WP8 over IOS and Android when it comes to enterprise.

    WP8 is going to have native Direct X which means it makes it easier to port XBLA, XBLI, XBOX 360 and PC titles over to WP8. You never know maybe MS might launch Halo, Forza or Fable with WP8 to make it really attractive. With better DX support means better Live integration now WP8 is truly going to ride the Xbox Live momentum which makes it easy to recommend the phone to gamers.

    WP8 is going to have native Skype the most popular VOIP service in the world. Soo much potential there makes it also easier to recommend it over other phones.

    Plus other things like Pureview, Nokia navigation, Windows 8 integration and many many more. WP8 is not just a me too device its almost a full blown Windows 8 experience in your pocket.

    Also just to note what makes WP7 stand out from the rest of the crowd. PRICE, Reliability and ease of use
    07-13-2012 01:07 PM
  25. diapers's Avatar
    Are you kidding me?

    WP8 is going to have by far one of the best Enterprise ready features on a smartphone which means its easier to recommend a WP8 over IOS and Android when it comes to enterprise.
    why? You said all that without a lick of evidence why it is better than IOS and Android

    WP8 is going to have native Direct X which means it makes it easier to port XBLA, XBLI, XBOX 360 and PC titles over to WP8. You never know maybe MS might launch Halo, Forza or Fable with WP8 to make it really attractive. With better DX support means better Live integration now WP8 is truly going to ride the Xbox Live momentum which makes it easy to recommend the phone to gamers.
    Whoop, finally doing something that OpenGL has been doing on other platform for years. This is catching up.. this is "me too".

    WP8 is going to have native Skype the most popular VOIP service in the world. Soo much potential there makes it also easier to recommend it over other phones.

    Plus other things like Pureview, Nokia navigation, Windows 8 integration and many many more. WP8 is not just a me too device its almost a full blown Windows 8 experience in your pocket.
    All of these have been available on IOS and Android for years. It's not new, nothing you said is new. ;)
    07-13-2012 02:33 PM
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