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08-12-2012 04:21 PM
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  1. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Apple will eventually offer an iPhone with a large screen. Then we'll hear about how all the other large screened phones are copying Apple.
    No, they'll make a 4-4.1" screen and the phone will still be designed so that it will fit comfortably in the hand of 99% of the people out there and can be used one-handed, comfortably by 99% of the people out there.

    Apple is a company very focused on design, that is why they don't compromise when it comes to things like this.

    To make a stupid 5" phone that 3/4 of people are going to fumble and drop when they try to use one-handed goes against everything Apple does.

    Resolution is what matters far more than screen size anyway, especially in a phone.
    aubreyq and ExBB like this.
    07-15-2012 06:07 PM
  2. Reflexx's Avatar
    No, they'll make a 4-4.1" screen and the phone will still be designed so that it will fit comfortably in the hand of 99% of the people out there and can be used one-handed, comfortably by 99% of the people out there.

    Apple is a company very focused on design, that is why they don't compromise when it comes to things like this.

    To make a stupid 5" phone that 3/4 of people are going to fumble and drop when they try to use one-handed goes against everything Apple does.

    Resolution is what matters far more than screen size anyway, especially in a phone.
    And if you say it's not comfortable, then you're obviously holding it wrong. :P
    aubreyq likes this.
    07-15-2012 09:10 PM
  3. based_graham's Avatar
    I think the two biggest reasons, at least from a purely subjective pov, is 1) it's greatest strength, the built in integrations with popular services, is also it's greatest weakness, and 2) getting trounced in the spec war.

    But I think first and foremost, the problem is that the way phone is designed, with those deep integrations, just doesn't demo well to in a 'elevator pitch' scenerio like selling a phone. Paul Thurrott said it best, that what really makes the phone, is when you log in and suddenly YOUR stuff starts filling it up- photos, FB, twitter, etc. And I don't think that's a concept people can understand until they see that- and no matter how much someone explains that, they really need to see and experience it to understand how it fundamentally changes how they think of and use a modern smartphone.

    And that leads to number 2- because right now, I think the average consumer only knows 'apps', and spec buzzwords, like multiple core, 3d, etc. And so those people that believe those things are important- aren't going to give WP7.5 a passing glance, when they walk into that store. And the fact that there's a new 'best phone ever' every freaking month, means that's what people are going to ask for.

    Ultimately, I think the one thing that solves both problems is Win8/WP8. It will be able to have specs that should compete well with android phones, which should at least keep it in the ballpark. And also, if Win 8 is as succesfull as we think it will be, then people will get used to the idea of Metro and live tiles, and the idea of more integrated experiences within the core of the OS itself. And also, tier 1 developers WILL develop for Win 8, and therefore it should be much much miuch easier to port those apps to WP.

    I think that's why Verizon and TMobile have been publically supportive of WP8- they realize once Win 8 does come out, with the full marketing blitz that will happen for it, and the buzz around Surface, etc, that the environment that they are selling WP8 into will be very different.

    At least, I hope so. I love my Lumia 900, and would hate to be forced to android in the next 4 years.
    In regards to Buzz words... I think its a great opportunity for the marketing team @ Microsoft to turn those "buzz" words to favour Microsoft.

    I think making advertisement's that capitalize on new buzz words such as Integration, Optimization can gain more consumer awareness.
    07-15-2012 09:44 PM
  4. Sicarius123's Avatar
    I had been talking WP up to friends, in the past couple of weeks I've probably had 5 or 6 friends coming up to end of contract ask me more about WP, I've told them don't bother unless you want to wait for WP8 in October/November as you wont get the update, just a skin.

    Pretty sure none will wait and will all end up with iPhone and Android on 2 year contracts, none seemed interested in WP knowing how soon they may not be able to get new apps. I'm not going to rip my friends off for Microsofts benefit.
    07-16-2012 07:27 AM
  5. aubreyq's Avatar
    Something tells me we won't have a WP8 phone until after iPhone 5 comes out and it will be another missed opportunity by Microsoft.
    07-16-2012 09:15 AM
  6. socialcarpet's Avatar
    And if you say it's not comfortable, then you're obviously holding it wrong. :P
    Well yes, naturally. It is Apple we're talking about here. :lol:
    07-16-2012 09:41 AM
  7. mb-dape's Avatar
    I disagree.

    Apple makes one phone. If they come out with a ridiculous 4.9" screen like every dumb Android phone has, they will alienate a lot of people.

    Samsung is happy to make a 5.3" phone even though it looks absurd and just goes against any kind of principle of good design.

    Android is perfect for people who value quantity over quality. Where does it end? The screens just keep getting bigger, the colors more over-saturated. The plastics thinner, flimsier and glossier. It's like a race to Idiocracy.

    The Android world has gone insane with everyone carrying a freaking tablet in their pocket. So stupid.
    So just because people dont think like you they are stupid, dumb or idiots? How can you not see that people prioritize different?

    I am sure everyone, including me, can agree that a 3,7" screen is best for one hand use. But for me that is not so important. If I buy a WP8 phone I will absolutely get the HTC with 4,7" screen. Because I use both hands most of the time. And with 720p resolution there is actually a point in having a big screen for web browsing, media etc. Does that make me stupid? The Galaxy Note with its 5,3" has sold more then 3 times of the total number of Nokia Lumias.

    Just because MOST people buy and like a moderate phone with 4" it doesnt mean there is no market for different models. Like if you would say that everyone that buys a 50"+ TV is idiots because most people better like 40" to their living rooms.

    You have a point that Samsung Galaxy S3 have boring and plastic design. But thats no way generally for Android. The HTC One series (their high end) has been praised for its hardware design and quality. The HTC One S has a shell in special treated aircraft aluminium. The One X has a unibody design with great quality feeling. Also Motorola has been releasing some phones with good build quality. Btw, the HTC One V is a high end model with 3,7", I wouldnt call it "economical junk". HTC does use LCD screens, if the AMOLED colours in Samsung is a problem for you. Btw, Nokia also uses AMOLED.
    fisci likes this.
    07-16-2012 11:55 AM
  8. theefman's Avatar
    Something tells me we won't have a WP8 phone until after iPhone 5 comes out and it will be another missed opportunity by Microsoft.
    If we're being honest it doesnt really matter when MS and the OEM's release WP8 phones, the iphone5 will dominate everything when its released and after that for a long time. It will be a long time (if ever) before a WP device launch will be as anticipated or as well received as a new iphone.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    07-16-2012 12:14 PM
  9. geekmaster's Avatar
    the world would be a little more interesting if the iphone 5 has NFC. because i bet most people who use iphone's have never heard of near field communication except for people like steve wazniak and a few others.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    07-16-2012 12:29 PM
  10. cckgz4's Avatar
    I had been talking WP up to friends, in the past couple of weeks I've probably had 5 or 6 friends coming up to end of contract ask me more about WP, I've told them don't bother unless you want to wait for WP8 in October/November as you wont get the update, just a skin.

    Pretty sure none will wait and will all end up with iPhone and Android on 2 year contracts, none seemed interested in WP knowing how soon they may not be able to get new apps. I'm not going to rip my friends off for Microsofts benefit.
    so why didn't you tell your friends to buy a used device? See....
    07-16-2012 04:46 PM
  11. AKA Preluva's Avatar
    Definitely.

    The carriers, as loathsome as they can be, are our friends here. None of them want to be locked in to only iPhone and Android as their choices. They know it gives Apple and Google too much power over them. If anything, they'd probably like to see RIM survive AND Windows Phone gain some market.

    You may not always see this evidenced in the stores, but that is because the guys who sell the phones aren't exactly tuned into corporate strategy, they just want to push whichever phone is going to get them the biggest spiff, usually Android, and most of them love Android because they are dorks who get off on 5 1/2" screens and quad core processors that still can't render a UI smoothly and they think everyone else should too.

    This is certainly true! I recently went to my local Sprint store and asked about up coming WinPhones and the guy says "Why do you want that? cRapple & Hemroid are better." Way to go there Jethro! :mad:
    vp710 likes this.
    07-16-2012 05:57 PM
  12. fisci's Avatar
    So just because people dont think like you they are stupid, dumb or idiots? How can you not see that people prioritize different?

    I am sure everyone, including me, can agree that a 3,7" screen is best for one hand use. But for me that is not so important. If I buy a WP8 phone I will absolutely get the HTC with 4,7" screen. Because I use both hands most of the time. And with 720p resolution there is actually a point in having a big screen for web browsing, media etc. Does that make me stupid? The Galaxy Note with its 5,3" has sold more then 3 times of the total number of Nokia Lumias.

    Just because MOST people buy and like a moderate phone with 4" it doesnt mean there is no market for different models. Like if you would say that everyone that buys a 50"+ TV is idiots because most people better like 40" to their living rooms.

    You have a point that Samsung Galaxy S3 have boring and plastic design. But thats no way generally for Android. The HTC One series (their high end) has been praised for its hardware design and quality. The HTC One S has a shell in special treated aircraft aluminium. The One X has a unibody design with great quality feeling. Also Motorola has been releasing some phones with good build quality. Btw, the HTC One V is a high end model with 3,7", I wouldnt call it "economical junk". HTC does use LCD screens, if the AMOLED colours in Samsung is a problem for you. Btw, Nokia also uses AMOLED.
    he seems to think his opinion is the be all end all of the universe, even though obviously the market feels otherwise
    07-16-2012 06:19 PM
  13. AKA Preluva's Avatar
    So just because people dont think like you they are stupid, dumb or idiots? How can you not see that people prioritize different?

    I am sure everyone, including me, can agree that a 3,7" screen is best for one hand use. But for me that is not so important. If I buy a WP8 phone I will absolutely get the HTC with 4,7" screen. Because I use both hands most of the time. And with 720p resolution there is actually a point in having a big screen for web browsing, media etc. Does that make me stupid? The Galaxy Note with its 5,3" has sold more then 3 times of the total number of Nokia Lumias.

    Just because MOST people buy and like a moderate phone with 4" it doesnt mean there is no market for different models. Like if you would say that everyone that buys a 50"+ TV is idiots because most people better like 40" to their living rooms.

    You have a point that Samsung Galaxy S3 have boring and plastic design. But thats no way generally for Android. The HTC One series (their high end) has been praised for its hardware design and quality. The HTC One S has a shell in special treated aircraft aluminium. The One X has a unibody design with great quality feeling. Also Motorola has been releasing some phones with good build quality. Btw, the HTC One V is a high end model with 3,7", I wouldnt call it "economical junk". HTC does use LCD screens, if the AMOLED colours in Samsung is a problem for you. Btw, Nokia also uses AMOLED.
    I think the day of the "postage stamp" sized phone is over! Companies are making them bigger and two companies (Samsung & ASUS) have moved on to the next logical step, Phon-lets! I firmly believe when this idea starts taking off cRapple will incorporate it in the ifad... err pad. :lol:
    07-16-2012 06:32 PM
  14. based_graham's Avatar
    Personally I think Android is just a FAD

    All it takes is
    1 Advertisement
    1 Game
    1 Phone

    To take Windows phone to the next level.
    07-16-2012 09:11 PM
  15. mb-dape's Avatar
    Personally I think Android is just a FAD

    All it takes is
    1 Advertisement
    1 Game
    1 Phone

    To take Windows phone to the next level.
    I think you are wrong, there will always be a need for phones that are the opposite of Apple, open source based, community supported, highly customizable, with different hardware combinations and price classes. Androids strength is that it attracts people from those who doesn't even know what a smartphone or Android is, to the most demanding nerds. But I don't say it's perfect yet.
    I see why people like Apple too and I personally like the idea behind WP8, I just want MS to deliver this time.
    07-17-2012 05:45 AM
  16. LeeWarner's Avatar
    Come on now... The WP on Verizon and sprint aren't even Mango phones and are shoved in Android stockpile its not like their actually pushing it but its still there.

    The reason why I didn't list them is because they are putting no effort in selling these devise while ATT and Tmobile are.
    Really? WP7s are on multiple carriers including Verizon (1 Device) , Sprint (1 Device), AT&T (7 devices, I think?) , T-Mobile (I think there are 3) , and even more. Where do you get this information?
    I'm on Sprint and my HTC Arrive got the mango update last fall.

    I think this is the crux of this whole thread though. Sprint and Verizon account for roughly half of the USA's cell phone market and they've each got one mid-tier (at release time) phone that is going for a year-and-a-half old. These phones feel abandoned and get no love from the drone's working at their respective carrier's stores.

    To me that's the 9 million pound pink elephant in the room. Until Microsoft can get a similar spectrum of WP devices on Sprint and Verizon like Android has been able to, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in **** of ever gaining traction.

    P.S. I'm a former Palm Pre owner is having flashbacks of what it's like to be on a dying (but awesome) platform.
    Last edited by LeeWarner; 07-17-2012 at 09:06 AM.
    AKA Preluva likes this.
    07-17-2012 07:55 AM
  17. based_graham's Avatar
    I'm on Sprint and my HTC Arrive got the mango update last fall.

    I think this is the crux of this whole thread though. Sprint and Verizon account for roughly half of the USA's cell phone market and they've each got one mid-tier (at release time) phone that is going for a year-and-a-half old. These phones feel abandoned and get no love from the drone's working at their respective carrier's stores.

    To me that's the 9 million pound pink elephant in the room. Until Microsoft can get a similar spectrum of WP devices on Sprint and Verizon like Android has been able to, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in **** of ever gaining traction.

    P.S. I'm a former Palm Pre owner is having flashbacks of what it's like to be on a dying (but awesome) platform.
    Windows Phone wont die because they have OEM support from HTC, Samsung, Nokia if Palm was licensed who knows maybe it would of been in Androids situation today.
    07-17-2012 01:48 PM
  18. based_graham's Avatar
    I think you are wrong, there will always be a need for phones that are the opposite of Apple, open source based, community supported, highly customizable, with different hardware combinations and price classes. Androids strength is that it attracts people from those who doesn't even know what a smartphone or Android is, to the most demanding nerds. But I don't say it's perfect yet.
    I see why people like Apple too and I personally like the idea behind WP8, I just want MS to deliver this time.
    I'm talking about from a advertising perspective

    1 phone like the flagship phone to carry the momentum similar to how the Surface is going to carry the Windows 8 brand

    1 game like Halo to really bring in attention. Imagine Halo on your WP and the ability to play online with ur XBL friends. Something that brings the WOW factor to the gaming market

    1 Ad that showcases the beauty, the innovation, the simplicity of Windows Phone. Play that on TV and especially @ the movie Theatres people are going to be like WOW whats this.

    Get what I'm saying of course we need more phones but we need a flagship phone that sets the tone. Similar to what Samsung Galaxy has done for the Android line up
    07-17-2012 01:52 PM
  19. socialcarpet's Avatar
    So just because people dont think like you they are stupid, dumb or idiots? How can you not see that people prioritize different?
    I think a phone is intended, and is in practice, used one handed by most people at least 50% of the time, so after a certain point making it so big that it can't be easily used in one hand seems kind of stupid, yes. It's the kind of compromise that a company that prioritizes the integrity of their design would not make. Samsung is a company that just wants to have a product in every category and try to WOW people with huge over saturated screens packed into cheap glossy plastic. It seems to be working for them, so why not?

    That doesn't make the people stupid. People want what they want. I think the TREND is stupid, yes, absolutely. And I will resent it if it ultimately means you can't get a premium phone in a smaller form factor.

    Just because MOST people buy and like a moderate phone with 4" it doesnt mean there is no market for different models. Like if you would say that everyone that buys a 50"+ TV is idiots because most people better like 40" to their living rooms.
    Of course. Samsung has clearly illustrated that people will buy almost anything. I mean a 5.3" PHONE? There's a market for it though, so...

    The TV analogy makes no sense. I don't carry a TV around with me or try to operate it one handed. Maybe if you were talking about putting a 60" plasma in a 9 x 11 bedroom versus a 32" TV, that might apply.

    My point was simply to respond to the guy that said Apple is going to lose if they don't make a huge 4.7"+ phone. He's dead wrong and they aren't going to do that because Apple cares about design principles.

    You have a point that Samsung Galaxy S3 have boring and plastic design. But thats no way generally for Android. The HTC One series (their high end) has been praised for its hardware design and quality. The HTC One S has a shell in special treated aircraft aluminium. The One X has a unibody design with great quality feeling. Also Motorola has been releasing some phones with good build quality. Btw, the HTC One V is a high end model with 3,7", I wouldnt call it "economical junk". HTC does use LCD screens, if the AMOLED colours in Samsung is a problem for you. Btw, Nokia also uses AMOLED.
    That's true. Though I think the HTC One X is ugly as sin.

    I'm well aware that Nokia uses AMOLED screen, I think Samsung might even be the source. However the screen on my phone does not seem anywhere near as over saturated as many of the Samsung models I've seen.

    As for the rest, I don't really care what the Android world does because I'll never buy an Android phone again.

    All I care about is Windows Phone and the iPhone, because I have a Windows Phone and my next phone will be one of those two.

    I don't care if you buy a 14.1" phone and carry two Bose speakers in a backpack connected to it. I'm just not a fan of a stupid trend that is leading to comically bigger and bigger phones that literally look laughable when people try to use them and more importantly, I don't want MY choices limited because the rest of the world has gone retarded and wants to use a tablet sized object as a phone.
    07-17-2012 02:06 PM
  20. socialcarpet's Avatar
    If we're being honest it doesnt really matter when MS and the OEM's release WP8 phones, the iphone5 will dominate everything when its released and after that for a long time. It will be a long time (if ever) before a WP device launch will be as anticipated or as well received as a new iphone.
    Yup.
    07-17-2012 02:06 PM
  21. socialcarpet's Avatar
    he seems to think his opinion is the be all end all of the universe, even though obviously the market feels otherwise
    Read what I wrote.

    I'm just talking about what Apple will do next.

    Clearly there's a huge market for gigantic smartphones out there. I wouldn't deny that for a second. I see them everywhere.

    I just disagree that Apple needs to cross the line to stupid-sized in order to complete. They don't and they won't.

    The next iPhone will be 4-4.1" or so. Definitely NOT over 4.3" and it will sell extremely well, count on it.
    07-17-2012 02:09 PM
  22. socialcarpet's Avatar
    I think the day of the "postage stamp" sized phone is over! Companies are making them bigger and two companies (Samsung & ASUS) have moved on to the next logical step, Phon-lets! I firmly believe when this idea starts taking off cRapple will incorporate it in the ifad... err pad. :lol:
    selfcreation and derek533 like this.
    07-17-2012 02:13 PM
  23. based_graham's Avatar
    I think iPhone 5 can help WP8 sales..

    Microsoft needs to create ADS to that clearly focus on simplicity and innovation

    Usually the problem with iPhone 5 is availability if the availability isn't there MS has a chance to convert people over especially with slick deals like buy a Windows PC, Xbox 360 for 500$ and get a free WP8 phone.
    07-17-2012 02:19 PM
  24. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Personally I think Android is just a FAD

    All it takes is
    1 Advertisement
    1 Game
    1 Phone

    To take Windows phone to the next level.
    I wish that were true, but Android isn't going anywhere. It's the ground chuck of phone operating systems. Anyone can have it for free and do whatever they want with it. Try and make it look all pretty and dress it up, but at the end of the day, it's low-grade crap made as a one-size-fits-all solution.

    I think if Microsoft does everything right and Nokia survives too, then we'll see Windows Phone get into the double-digits as far as marketshare goes, and they'll probably do in in 2 years. Maybe less than 2 years if RIM folds soon, but I don't see them doing anything miraculous like matching Apple's 34-35% of the market anytime soon. It would take a miracle to do that. Everyone else has such a huge head start and most people barely even know Windows Phone exists. It's going to take a lot more than some commercials and a few games to change that.

    Apple will hold onto at least 30% or more of the market. They'll do just fine. There are still a ton of people out there who have never bought their first smartphone yet, believe it or not. Something like 40-50% of the cell phone market is still completely up for grabs.
    07-17-2012 02:22 PM
  25. based_graham's Avatar
    I wish that were true, but Android isn't going anywhere. It's the ground chuck of phone operating systems. Anyone can have it for free and do whatever they want with it. Try and make it look all pretty and dress it up, but at the end of the day, it's low-grade crap made as a one-size-fits-all solution.

    I think if Microsoft does everything right and Nokia survives too, then we'll see Windows Phone get into the double-digits as far as marketshare goes, and they'll probably do in in 2 years. Maybe less than 2 years if RIM folds soon, but I don't see them doing anything miraculous like matching Apple's 34-35% of the market anytime soon. It would take a miracle to do that. Everyone else has such a huge head start and most people barely even know Windows Phone exists. It's going to take a lot more than some commercials and a few games to change that.

    Apple will hold onto at least 30% or more of the market. They'll do just fine. There are still a ton of people out there who have never bought their first smartphone yet, believe it or not. Something like 40-50% of the cell phone market is still completely up for grabs.
    No doubt but if you think about it out of Android's 50% marketshare how much do the flagship phones actually take up? A lot of Android MS comes from low end and I feel WP can get a lot of those users to jump over.

    MS needs to make it as if you have a Windows PC, Xbox 360 you need a Windows Phone.
    07-17-2012 03:01 PM
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