09-28-2012 11:53 PM
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  1. inteller's Avatar
    I really want Microsoft and Nokia to push unlocked, unbranded phones hard with WP8. Not that we'll be at the mercy of carriers for updates then, but I would prefer to have zero ties to ATT. I'm almost there as it is, but all my phones still say ATT on them.
    Mr_pither and aubreyq like this.
    08-01-2012 01:13 PM
  2. alpinestars1z's Avatar
    I really want Microsoft and Nokia to push unlocked, unbranded phones hard with WP8. Not that we'll be at the mercy of carriers for updates then, but I would prefer to have zero ties to ATT. I'm almost there as it is, but all my phones still say ATT on them.
    I second this.
    08-01-2012 02:42 PM
  3. diplomat696's Avatar
    Wish someone would shine a big bright spotlight on AT&T and give them a little egg on their faces on a National spot light, it might actually kick them into gear to do something in a reasonable time frame.

    Contacting your local tv news outlet anyone? mwahahaha
    JD Miles likes this.
    08-01-2012 04:38 PM
  4. socialcarpet's Avatar
    If it wasn't for AT&T there'd hardly be any Windows Phones on the market in the US. You seriously don't think Sprint or Verizon would carry that many high end WP7 devices even split between the two of them, do you? And T-Mobile hasn't carried a high end WP7 device since the HD7 launched and it was actually the least innovative WP7 device on the market in the launch pack...

    Premier partner doesn't mean "we'll bend over backwards to update phones that sell not even 1/10th as well as the others in our portfolio."

    It means "we will carry and market your platform more than our carrier competitors."

    AT&T being PP to MS means as much as Verizon being PP to Motorola. It didn't somehow shackle Verizon and make them bend over backwards to give updates when some users decided they wanted it. It just meant that Verizon got all the best Motorola Android devices (which they did, for years).
    Unfortunately, this is 100% true.
    08-01-2012 05:20 PM
  5. undisputed n00b's Avatar
    Filled out a form with the FCC. For me, this is more about principle more than anything else. AT&T needs to get their act together.

    What scares me most is that when 7.8 comes out, AT&T is going to be the last to push the update, if at all. It wouldn't surprise me if they withhold it to encourage customers to purchase new WP8 phones.
    Can your post a link so we can fill out w/e form you filled out with the FCC? Also Microsoft said they are bypassing carriers starting with WP 7.8.
    08-01-2012 07:31 PM
  6. inteller's Avatar
    Can your post a link so we can fill out w/e form you filled out with the FCC? Also Microsoft said they are bypassing carriers starting with WP 7.8.
    Microsoft said they were implementing OTA updates and giving enthusiasts a way to get the update early. They DID NOT say they were bypassing carriers. Go back and listen to it. Too many people heard what they wanted to hear.

    here is where you file a BBB complaint against ATT:

    https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complai...-722a6408f7c2/

    Here is where you file an FCC complaint:

    File Complaint | FCC.gov

    and here I would even file an FTC complaint for a deliberately defective product:

    https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.go...d.aspx?Lang=en
    08-01-2012 09:18 PM
  7. rbunson's Avatar
    I too have been patient with AT&T, letting their inaction and lack of clarity be tempered with an assumption that eventually, but in a reasonable amount of time, they'd release the updates to Windows Phones locked on their network. They've proven that while Microsoft fixed their fragmentation issue with the Windows Mobile platform of years past, they haven't been able to be strong with the domestic carriers' ability to test and deploy updates. What happened with the policy that carriers could block an update but the following update would be approved regardless of the carrier's update status? I have a Samsung Focus and have been tempted to force the updates to my phone, but I'm not comfortable doing so.

    The rationale of 1st 'gen' phones not being capable of neither receiving updates nor being fully supported is unacceptable - especially now that we know that the Focus IS getting the updates on other carriers in other countries.

    What this leads me to - beyond pressing the BBB or FCC, or whomever - is a class action lawsuit. Based on this article from the Chicago Tribune: Higher service margins help AT&T beat estimates - chicagotribune.com.

    Like its bigger rival Verizon Wireless, AT&T has been curtailing the frequency of smartphone upgrades for its customers to cut costs.

    It's clear that specifically AT&T chose to do what they think is best for their bottom line versus the customer experience.

    Thus, this leads me back to my notion of a class action lawsuit. It seems as though lawsuits are the only thing that motivates big companies these days. AT&T clearly intentionally harmed their customers. Should AT&T test the updates before approving them, sure, but when the same phone is getting updates in other markets, then there should be a window of approval time based on both the success rate and adoption rate after which the updates are automatically approved.

    My final thought on this is that with Windows Phone 8 getting OTA updates by design, this had better be the LAST time that we have to deal with a middle-man which hinders our excellent product. While I'd love to switch to another carrier, I do have an incredible deal with AT&T that makes me feel like I'm permanently tied to their network. (Work pays for most of the bill and at a discount)
    08-02-2012 02:25 AM
  8. inteller's Avatar
    if you find a good class action lawyer I'll sign up.
    aubreyq likes this.
    08-02-2012 07:44 AM
  9. aubreyq's Avatar
    I have the Focus with AT&T and since Mango I've had the disappearing keyboard problem. It upsets me that AT&T is fully aware of this and they haven't sent the update that clearly corrects the keyboard problem. I'd rather update normally instead of forcing the update.

    Is AT&T simply ignoring their 1st gen WP owners? Sounds to me like they're waiting for this issue to "go away" once iPhone 5 and WP8 comes out because most 1st get WP users will be due to upgrade their phones at that time.
    08-02-2012 08:01 AM
  10. alex6272's Avatar
    its not a hack ,

    de-branding = carrier unlock, its 100% LEGIT!

    if you carrier unlock your phone you can get the update right away!

    - you call AT&T to have them unlock it.. ( carriers are expensive doh 50-100$ )
    OR
    - Go to a local electronic store ( not future shop or best buy ) but like a family owned ghetto store lol. they normally have a big sing that says. *WE UNLOCK PHONES*

    pay them 20-30$ and your good to go!

    or even find a dude on KIJIJI or Craigslist ( local to you) so he can do it in person. 20-30$

    once thats done , use the force update method and BOOOM!

    PS: the update is ready for every single model , if you dont have it yet its cause of Carrier/in queued

    If I'm not mistaken, carrier unlocks and de-branding are very different things. Carrier unlock allows you to use the phone on other networks while still receiving updates from the original carrier. De-branding removes all association with that original carrier. My phone is carrier unlocked and all my updates are still on AT&T's schedule.
    08-02-2012 09:18 AM
  11. inteller's Avatar
    you are correct. carrier unlock you can take ATT phone to T-mobile. de branding means taking off the authority of which carrier is responsible for your updates and making the phone appear as if it were purchased in the clear, free from carriers.

    That doesn't matter to a large extent because of ATT exclusive first gen phones like the surround, the hold all the keys.
    08-02-2012 09:56 AM
  12. Silverdogz's Avatar
    I know focus s updates are out.

    Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
    08-02-2012 10:31 AM
  13. Gemini Ace's Avatar
    I've had enough. Everyone, including me, has waited by patiently and not really said anything but I'm f-ing sick of ATT. Microsoft should be ashamed and ATT should never call itself premier anything again.

    ATT refused to release 8107, or anything else that provided a critical update. Fine. It was assumed they would release Tango post haste to fix those critical problems and also include the updates.

    Here we sit on the last day of July with nothing. We've suffered the disappearing keyboard for almost a YEAR and we have a carrier who could care less.

    Microsoft should have NEVER taken down the where's my update page. It was the ONLY thing that cast the spotlight on carrier's (ATT) shady ways.

    Tango may be minor, but it shows what happens when carriers have no attention put on them. ATT is dispicable and this kind of service is almost criminal.
    Oh the humanity! Suffering? Really? Criminal? Seriously?

    So basically Microsoft and AT&T have conspired, most likely in a dark and smokey back room where they meet secretly, to keep you from having the Tango update.

    Sounds legit.
    08-02-2012 11:32 AM
  14. CDG's Avatar
    What this leads me to - beyond pressing the BBB or FCC, or whomever - is a class action lawsuit. Based on this article from the Chicago Tribune: Higher service margins help AT&T beat estimates - chicagotribune.com.

    Like its bigger rival Verizon Wireless, AT&T has been curtailing the frequency of smartphone upgrades for its customers to cut costs.

    It's clear that specifically AT&T chose to do what they think is best for their bottom line versus the customer experience.
    I believe the article refers to early upgrades while in a contract to get a new phone. This used to be $75 over the 2 year contract price after 6 months. This has been upped to $250 after 1 year.

    This has nothing to do with OS Updates.

    Just my 2 cents. :)
    snowmutt and aubreyq like this.
    08-02-2012 01:02 PM
  15. joeaux's Avatar
    I got Tango yesterday and noticed no changes. What did it add?
    Here ya go (it's the 8773 update). This is right from Microsoft:

    Windows Phone Update History | Windows Phone OS Versions | Windows Phone 7

    -joe-
    08-02-2012 05:23 PM
  16. snowmutt's Avatar
    I believe the article refers to early upgrades while in a contract to get a new phone. This used to be $75 over the 2 year contract price after 6 months. This has been upped to $250 after 1 year.

    This has nothing to do with OS Updates.

    Just my 2 cents. :)
    I know they are fighting early upgrades. That is a HUGE loss on the price of the device.

    Upgrades are such a different beast. It come from the OS provider (Microsoft), through the handset company (HTC, Samsung, Nokia), than has to be approved by AT&T. There seems to be the biggie: AT&T seems to putting the halt on HTC Titan and Titan 2 upgrades. Since it seems the international HTC audience has Tango, the Focus S and Flash both just got it, the hole HAS to be AT&T on this.

    Has the Radar gotten it on T-Mobile? (I do not think so, not heard anything.) How about the 710 on T-Mobile?

    How is the updates on Canadian carriers?
    08-02-2012 05:45 PM
  17. undisputed n00b's Avatar
    I know they are fighting early upgrades. That is a HUGE loss on the price of the device.

    Upgrades are such a different beast. It come from the OS provider (Microsoft), through the handset company (HTC, Samsung, Nokia), than has to be approved by AT&T. There seems to be the biggie: AT&T seems to putting the halt on HTC Titan and Titan 2 upgrades. Since it seems the international HTC audience has Tango, the Focus S and Flash both just got it, the hole HAS to be AT&T on this.

    Has the Radar gotten it on T-Mobile? (I do not think so, not heard anything.) How about the 710 on T-Mobile?

    How is the updates on Canadian carriers?
    Microsoft makes the WP update and they work on all Windows Phones. Carriers have nothing to do other than push the update to users.
    08-02-2012 06:19 PM
  18. inteller's Avatar
    they don't even push the update. They just give the "all clear" for Microsoft to release it.

    I'd love to know the fool at ATT who is responsible for signing off on the updates. Obviously he/she remains anonymous out of fear for their life.
    08-02-2012 09:58 PM
  19. snowmutt's Avatar
    Microsoft makes the WP update and they work on all Windows Phones. Carriers have nothing to do other than push the update to users.
    Theoretically, yes. But in reality, no. Remeber how much longer it took to get Mango out to one set of Samsung Focus devices due to it's different processor, used due to shortages? I believe the HTC Surround and the Dell Venue Pro were also slower to get the update than other devices. After Mango, Microsoft stated updates were going to be more up to each manufacturer and carrier. No matter how uniformed the updates, there HAS to be testing on each device to ensure each works correctly. The advantage to a uniformed set of hardware requirments is the minimizing of unique problems, not the elimination.

    That is why I was curious if I missed the Radar and the 710 on T-Mobile getting the update, I was wondering if T-Mo users were also still waiting.
    08-02-2012 10:00 PM
  20. N8ter's Avatar
    the HD7 was actually a great device at launch, paling only to the Focus. I dont count the DVP cause it was a launch debacle.

    ATT has to do NOTHING but call Microsoft and "say push the button" and we all get updates. That lack of such a minimal amount of effort is spiteful and negligent.
    The HD7 was nothing but a refreshed HD2 using much of even the same internal hardware components.

    It has the second worse camera, worse screen, dubious build quality, and its performance was below most other WP7 devices especially those that used NAND chips for storage.

    What helped the HD7 was the fact that it was the only WP7 device on T-Mobile forever, while AT&T had several - even an HD7 variant with a much better screen. Dell had a DVP model with TMOUS frequencies but it was only sold through their online store, where most people DIDN'T look for smartphones...

    What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.

    That's why smaller carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are more flexible. They aren't as stretched. AT&T has twice the amount of smartphones to test and validate at any given time than T-Mobile or Sprint, and quite a few more than Verizon as well.
    08-03-2012 02:48 PM
  21. inteller's Avatar
    What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.
    .
    this does not hold water and you know it.

    There are unlocked versions of the same phones on ATT getting the update AROUND THE WORLD. I'm effing sick of hearing the "we gotta test it" schpiel contrary to what ATT thinks, they and their network are NOT that special so that phones that work just fine around the world with the update will somehow break on theirs. The only thing that would cause them to break would be some useless crap THEY added in, which I DON'T WANT because I want ATT out of my phone!

    as far as the number of phones, ATT doesn't carry a great deal more than other carriers around the world (Windows Phones). It really doesn't matter because Microsoft and the OEMs are the ones doing the real work on the updates. ATT has to do very little, if anything, on the firmware.

    With other carriers around the world releasing updates, ATT is long out of excuses.
    08-03-2012 04:59 PM
  22. scdkad's Avatar
    And why can't they at least give us reason for screwing us or a timetable of what might be ahead? That's what irks me-the silence. Can't get an answer from anybody in these big corporate bureaucracies..

    Sent from my Quantum using Board Express
    08-03-2012 05:28 PM
  23. gentry33's Avatar
    The HD7 was nothing but a refreshed HD2 using much of even the same internal hardware components.

    It has the second worse camera, worse screen, dubious build quality, and its performance was below most other WP7 devices especially those that used NAND chips for storage.

    What helped the HD7 was the fact that it was the only WP7 device on T-Mobile forever, while AT&T had several - even an HD7 variant with a much better screen. Dell had a DVP model with TMOUS frequencies but it was only sold through their online store, where most people DIDN'T look for smartphones...

    What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.

    That's why smaller carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are more flexible. They aren't as stretched. AT&T has twice the amount of smartphones to test and validate at any given time than T-Mobile or Sprint, and quite a few more than Verizon as well.
    Twice as many phones, and being the behemoth that they are wouldn't they have twice the staff available?
    08-03-2012 09:23 PM
  24. jimski's Avatar
    Hey come on. Lets be serious here. AT&T does test every new update. They test to make sure you can't tether without paying for it. They test to make sure you can't text for the same reason. And they make absolute certain that all the data you use is recorded accurately so they can bill you for overages. When they are sure they are getting paid for everything the update will be ready. Even of the keyboard starts disappearing again.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
    HeyCori and aubreyq like this.
    08-03-2012 09:31 PM
  25. inteller's Avatar
    well you got that right!
    08-04-2012 08:41 AM
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