09-28-2012 11:53 PM
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  1. eric12341's Avatar
    The HD7 was nothing but a refreshed HD2 using much of even the same internal hardware components.

    It has the second worse camera, worse screen, dubious build quality, and its performance was below most other WP7 devices especially those that used NAND chips for storage.

    What helped the HD7 was the fact that it was the only WP7 device on T-Mobile forever, while AT&T had several - even an HD7 variant with a much better screen. Dell had a DVP model with TMOUS frequencies but it was only sold through their online store, where most people DIDN'T look for smartphones...

    What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.

    That's why smaller carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are more flexible. They aren't as stretched. AT&T has twice the amount of smartphones to test and validate at any given time than T-Mobile or Sprint, and quite a few more than Verizon as well.

    What does the "crappiness" of the HD7 got to do with AT&T's inability to release updates? It's obvious that they're skipping over the 8107 update and they even admitted it as there was an article on the front page about it back in may I think.
    08-04-2012 02:42 PM
  2. jfa1's Avatar
    They have said it will be out this summer which means that it could be out his month or by mid September. Its not a major update and it will be nice to get it but its not a major deal so there's no sense in getting too worked up about it. Its not worth thrfeatening someone's life and its not worth a stroke or heart attacck and its not anything that any of us have any control over so why get really worked up about. Take a chill pill and enjoy life. Its just your smartphone.
    08-05-2012 10:16 AM
  3. jimski's Avatar
    They have said it will be out this summer which means that it could be out his month or by mid September. Its not a major update and it will be nice to get it but its not a major deal so there's no sense in getting too worked up about it. Its not worth thrfeatening someone's life and its not worth a stroke or heart attacck and its not anything that any of us have any control over so why get really worked up about. Take a chill pill and enjoy life. Its just your smartphone.
    Don't think too many AT&T customers are pouting over Tango. They are pouting over what Tango brings though, specifically the 8107 update, which includes the keyboard fix. When was the last time an AT&T device got an official update? That would be Mango, almost a year ago. And that my friend is unacceptable and the reason for this outrage. Starting to remind me of WM, when you were lucky to see any kind of update in the typical two year life of a device. Sad, very sad. One step forward, two steps back.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
    aubreyq likes this.
    08-05-2012 10:44 AM
  4. gentry33's Avatar
    Don't think too many AT&T customers are pouting over Tango. They are pouting over what Tango brings though, specifically the 8107 update, which includes the keyboard fix. When was the last time an AT&T device got an official update? That would be Mango, almost a year ago. And that my friend is unacceptable and the reason for this outrage. Starting to remind me of WM, when you were lucky to see any kind of update in the typical two year life of a device. Sad, very sad. One step forward, two steps back.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
    Not to mention MMS update which probably pisses AT&T off, I'm sure their trying to figure out how to make you pay for it.
    aubreyq likes this.
    08-05-2012 11:30 AM
  5. scottcraft's Avatar
    If I wouldn't have gotten the 8107 update when I did I probably would have gotten a different phone. That update is more important than Tango to me, even though I'm glad I got Tango. Can't believe AT&T has been dragging it's feet on this.
    08-05-2012 02:48 PM
  6. mikeeemm's Avatar
    Has anyone complained to Windows Phone about at&t? I would think letters would state due to at&t i no longer want a wp phone blah blah.
    08-05-2012 10:18 PM
  7. inteller's Avatar
    telling them that would probably make them happy.

    No the only way to get their attention is letters from lawyers and nasty calls from the BBB and FCC.
    08-06-2012 07:12 AM
  8. N8ter's Avatar
    this does not hold water and you know it.

    There are unlocked versions of the same phones on ATT getting the update AROUND THE WORLD. I'm effing sick of hearing the "we gotta test it" schpiel contrary to what ATT thinks, they and their network are NOT that special so that phones that work just fine around the world with the update will somehow break on theirs. The only thing that would cause them to break would be some useless crap THEY added in, which I DON'T WANT because I want ATT out of my phone!

    as far as the number of phones, ATT doesn't carry a great deal more than other carriers around the world (Windows Phones). It really doesn't matter because Microsoft and the OEMs are the ones doing the real work on the updates. ATT has to do very little, if anything, on the firmware.

    With other carriers around the world releasing updates, ATT is long out of excuses.
    Locked versions still have to be tested to make sure the Carrier's value-added software works correctly, and there are sometimes hardware differences in the phone that make them different than the International Variants. If AT&T Navigator stops working for all of AT&T's customers who use it, they will be pissed, cause they pay for it. Same for T-Mobile TV and other Carrier Branded services.

    International Unlocked variants do not have to worry about this, because those phones are almost always sold off-contract and without any value-add software pre-loaded (how easy it is to uninstall is not important).

    Additionally, with an Unlocked Phone your first line of defense for support is the OEM. With a Carrier Branded phone your first line of defense for support is the Carrier. They want to protect themselves. Any business would do that, irregardless of the market.

    The argument holds water. You just don't want to accept it because you want what you want NOW.

    AT&T has the Focus, HD7S, Surround, some LG phone I forget, Focus S, Focus 2, Titan, Titan 2, Lumia 900 to support.

    T-Mobile has the HD7, Radar, and Lumia 710 (maybe another low end Nokia?).

    Verizon and Sprint both have only 1 Windows Phone, IIRC.

    The situation with Updates in the USA is not the same as in other parts of the world. In Europe and Asia updates tend to come very quickly to devices even of the same model than here. Carriers here are completely different than there.

    I compare AT&T to their competing carriers HERE because they're in the same market. It makes more sense. Comparing them to Vodafone makes absolutely no sense nevermind AT&T has to support (through updates) way more Windows Phones than IIRC any European carrier.

    They still have to support even some phones that aren't being actively sold now. It's why phones like the Focus still get updates. Look at the bigger picture.

    In addition to that they have a ton of Android phones to support, they carry all the BB7 devices, and have a more varied Tablet PCs portfolio than any carrier here - and they have more subscribers on their network with smartphones than any other carrier in the US (and on a wider variety of smartphones).

    AT&T will be slower than other carriers in 90% of cases simply because no one can expect them to staff a QA department the size of Google or Microsoft to get it done in record time for a few complainers and demolish their profits. They're in it to make money? Want LTE soon? Deal with it and maybe they'll be able to afford to bring it to you before next century, if it isn't there already.
    Last edited by N8ter; 08-06-2012 at 11:47 PM.
    08-06-2012 11:38 PM
  9. N8ter's Avatar
    Twice as many phones, and being the behemoth that they are wouldn't they have twice the staff available?
    Because they probably sell 40% iPhones and Apple does most of the support for those.

    Not sure why you're trying to correlate the amount of smartphones they sale to the amount of staff they should have when you obviously have no clue about the actual data therein.
    08-06-2012 11:41 PM
  10. Long Syntax's Avatar
    Sorry, but I disagree. You make some reasoned points about the size of AT&T and time needed to test, but when it comes to the disappearing keyboard, you are wrong. 8107 was available from MS in January, in march most carriers made it available, but AT&T users are still waiting. I've had this keyboard issue going on a year soon, and it is unreasonable for me to have to "deal with it". I just don't think waiting this long for a fix is reasonable. So, royal screw job fits in this case as far as I'm concerned.
    aubreyq likes this.
    08-07-2012 05:59 AM
  11. gentry33's Avatar
    Locked versions still have to be tested to make sure the Carrier's value-added software works correctly, and there are sometimes hardware differences in the phone that make them different than the International Variants. If AT&T Navigator stops working for all of AT&T's customers who use it, they will be pissed, cause they pay for it. Same for T-Mobile TV and other Carrier Branded services.

    International Unlocked variants do not have to worry about this, because those phones are almost always sold off-contract and without any value-add software pre-loaded (how easy it is to uninstall is not important).

    Additionally, with an Unlocked Phone your first line of defense for support is the OEM. With a Carrier Branded phone your first line of defense for support is the Carrier. They want to protect themselves. Any business would do that, irregardless of the market.

    The argument holds water. You just don't want to accept it because you want what you want NOW.

    AT&T has the Focus, HD7S, Surround, some LG phone I forget, Focus S, Focus 2, Titan, Titan 2, Lumia 900 to support.

    T-Mobile has the HD7, Radar, and Lumia 710 (maybe another low end Nokia?).

    Verizon and Sprint both have only 1 Windows Phone, IIRC.

    The situation with Updates in the USA is not the same as in other parts of the world. In Europe and Asia updates tend to come very quickly to devices even of the same model than here. Carriers here are completely different than there.

    I compare AT&T to their competing carriers HERE because they're in the same market. It makes more sense. Comparing them to Vodafone makes absolutely no sense nevermind AT&T has to support (through updates) way more Windows Phones than IIRC any European carrier.

    They still have to support even some phones that aren't being actively sold now. It's why phones like the Focus still get updates. Look at the bigger picture.

    In addition to that they have a ton of Android phones to support, they carry all the BB7 devices, and have a more varied Tablet PCs portfolio than any carrier here - and they have more subscribers on their network with smartphones than any other carrier in the US (and on a wider variety of smartphones).

    AT&T will be slower than other carriers in 90% of cases simply because no one can expect them to staff a QA department the size of Google or Microsoft to get it done in record time for a few complainers and demolish their profits. They're in it to make money? Want LTE soon? Deal with it and maybe they'll be able to afford to bring it to you before next century, if it isn't there already.
    Food for thought, but riddle me this. Mango update was lickety split. Whats so different now as opposed to then? I'm just not buying it, more likely that they would just rather have early adopters spring for new device and contract than have to support existing hardware.
    08-07-2012 04:25 PM
  12. aubreyq's Avatar
    I hope NTelos Wireless or other carriers get at least one Windows Phone because I really want to jump ship this fall and give the finger to AT&T.
    08-08-2012 07:25 AM
  13. inteller's Avatar
    One thing is there is no longer a "Where's my update" page that shows each phone and what its status is with each carrier. I'd say that's the main thing. With no transparency the carriers all return back to their shady ways.
    aubreyq likes this.
    08-08-2012 07:25 AM
  14. N8ter's Avatar
    Microsoft broke the keyboard, not AT&T, and like I said. 8107 is a minor update for a minor OS on a major network.

    It simply isn't a priority for them.

    I was pissed it took forever to get to my HD7 when I had it, but it didn't stop me from facing the music and realizing exactly why it wasn't a priority for the carrier. If I was AT&T, I'd be doing the same thing because it is sound business sense. **** off 1% of your customers (WP7 Users) or instead delay an update for another phone that comprises 20% of your customers (i.e. a GS2/SR ICS update).

    If Microsoft had actually tested their own update thoroughly (and really you don't need a thorough test to see the keyboard bug, you just need to actually use a phone with the damn FW loaded on it), you wouldn't be distraught over this issue.

    If AT&T had kicked it back to MS over the keyboard bug and it took until January to get your Mango update, you'd have blamed them for that as well, and had a fit over it. The carriers know they can't win with those types of personalities.

    You're just going to have to deal with it.
    08-08-2012 10:44 AM
  15. inteller's Avatar
    ATT is as much a part of the testing process as Microsoft. In fact, ATT always used the "testing" line as an excuse for not releasing the update.....they should have tested the crap out of it according to them!

    again your logic is failing...why should it be one or the other? people act like ATT has this finite amount of resources that they can only do one update or another. The update doesn't even come across their network!
    Last edited by inteller; 08-08-2012 at 12:55 PM.
    08-08-2012 11:04 AM
  16. jfa1's Avatar
    Food for thought, but riddle me this. Mango update was lickety split. Whats so different now as opposed to then? I'm just not buying it, more likely that they would just rather have early adopters spring for new device and contract than have to support existing hardware.
    Whats different now? Well ATT has more windows phones to deal with 2 versions of the original focus (Samsung's fault) the Quantum the Surround the next generation devices the titan titan HD7s the 900 Titan II Dell Venue Pro,Focus Flash and current devices 900 Focus II. Sure they want you to buy new hardware Doesn't Apple? Does that mean ATT is bad and evil more so than any other American or Canadian or _____ carrier? I dont think so. You are entitled to your opinion and to express, and the fact that you are aggravated by the delay (which I understand) is apparent. But does that make ATT evil Nope not in my book. You angst anger and whatever else wont speed upthe process at all so why not chill out and wait for it to come out or if you cant move on! Neither you nor I have any control over the sitaution because we are not Randall Stevenson or Ralph de la Vega. Its not worth stroking out! It will be here when it get here.
    08-08-2012 12:09 PM
  17. MinnesotaSteve's Avatar
    Locked versions still have to be tested to make sure the Carrier's value-added software works correctly, and there are sometimes hardware differences in the phone that make them different than the International Variants. If AT&T Navigator stops working for all of AT&T's customers who use it, they will be pissed, cause they pay for it. Same for T-Mobile TV and other Carrier Branded services.
    So the two guys who actually pay for AT&T Navigator are holding up an update that may(or may not?) fix the WiFi hotspot data issue for the 100,00 or so of us who pay for that.

    Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

    Well it doesn't matter I guess. I removed tethering off my plan since it's broken.
    08-08-2012 02:29 PM
  18. sdchris's Avatar
    My upgrade is finally here after using the samsung focus for nearly 2 years. Needless to say, I'm not going to get a new WP.

    I think there are plenty neat upcoming features, but nothing too compelling to keep me from sticking around. The disappearing keyboard is a big nuisance. I suppose I could force update, but I'd rather go to android and play that game, which is what I will do. I'll keep my focus as a backup, since it is actually a pretty good phone. But as far as sticking around for "hopes and dreams," I'll leave that one for Vegas or the birds.
    08-08-2012 02:42 PM
  19. inteller's Avatar
    how could your upgrade be up on a Focus when it didn't release until Nov 2010? Are you on an 18 month upgrade cycle?
    08-08-2012 03:14 PM
  20. Long Syntax's Avatar
    I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that one can upgrade 6 months prior to contract being up, which of course obligates you to another two year agreement.

    N8ter - again, you make some reasoned points (stressing the word some here), however there is a distinct possibility that there will never be an update for the disappearing keyboard issue for the first gen phones on AT&T. I think that's what's kinda ticking me off here. I do hope you can see my point.
    08-08-2012 03:44 PM
  21. sdchris's Avatar
    how could your upgrade be up on a Focus when it didn't release until Nov 2010? Are you on an 18 month upgrade cycle?
    I don't know how they work the upgrades. I bought my focus early December 2010 from costco. I checked a few sites to see when I was eligible for a new upgrade, and they all said sometime in August. I checked again a week ago and they said I was eligible for an upgrade to any phone. That's about 3 months from my 2 year anniversary.
    08-08-2012 07:30 PM
  22. aubreyq's Avatar
    My upgrade is finally here after using the samsung focus for nearly 2 years. Needless to say, I'm not going to get a new WP.

    I think there are plenty neat upcoming features, but nothing too compelling to keep me from sticking around. The disappearing keyboard is a big nuisance. I suppose I could force update, but I'd rather go to android and play that game, which is what I will do. I'll keep my focus as a backup, since it is actually a pretty good phone. But as far as sticking around for "hopes and dreams," I'll leave that one for Vegas or the birds.
    I'm in the same situation but if I switch, it'll be to iOS. You're only going to find pain in Android, trust me. Good luck.

    I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that one can upgrade 6 months prior to contract being up, which of course obligates you to another two year agreement.
    I don't know how they work the upgrades. I bought my focus early December 2010 from costco. I checked a few sites to see when I was eligible for a new upgrade, and they all said sometime in August. I checked again a week ago and they said I was eligible for an upgrade to any phone. That's about 3 months from my 2 year anniversary.
    Back in November 2010 I was on my 17th month and they (Costco kiosk) let me upgrade to the Focus. That was kind of weird but, hey, I was able to do it. Supposedly some carriers (maybe this includes AT&T) have been getting rid of the 18-month upgrade cycle, forcing people to wait the entire 24 months. Not sure if it's really happening out there, though.

    N8ter - again, you make some reasoned points (stressing the word some here), however there is a distinct possibility that there will never be an update for the disappearing keyboard issue for the first gen phones on AT&T. I think that's what's kinda ticking me off here. I do hope you can see my point.
    I don't know about N8ter but I see your point, man. Earlier in this thread I mentioned that AT&T probably decided that it's not worth the time and effort to satisfy the small market of Focus owners since in a few months a good majority of us will change phones. I can't believe that I'm on my 11th month with a software glitch (disappearing keyboard) that was fixed 7 or 8 months ago but yet I can't get the fix without a workaround.

    I'll just stop giving AT&T my money this November and go to another carrier.
    08-09-2012 06:59 AM
  23. jimski's Avatar
    I don't know how they work the upgrades. I bought my focus early December 2010 from costco. I checked a few sites to see when I was eligible for a new upgrade, and they all said sometime in August. I checked again a week ago and they said I was eligible for an upgrade to any phone. That's about 3 months from my 2 year anniversary.
    My last two upgrades from AT&T came after 21 months on contract. They changed the anniversary date a while back so if your update was 8/24/12, they would set it to the first of the month, or 8/1/12. That gives you 3-4 months prior to completion of your current contract.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
    08-09-2012 09:13 AM
  24. sdchris's Avatar
    It can't be any worse than the disappearing keyboard. I'm still confused by this not being fixed for over a year. Before that, it was the really crappy marketplace prior to NoDo.

    I may wait until the nexus comes out and order one of those off contract.
    08-09-2012 06:31 PM
  25. bigkevbosky's Avatar
    AT&T still does the 18 month upgrade for "valued" customers, FYI. I think it has something to do with never being late for a payment and amount of years you've been a customer.
    08-10-2012 07:00 AM
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