Tango...aka royal screw job by the "Premier Windows Phone carrier"

snowmutt

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I believe the article refers to early upgrades while in a contract to get a new phone. This used to be $75 over the 2 year contract price after 6 months. This has been upped to $250 after 1 year.

This has nothing to do with OS Updates.

Just my 2 cents. :)
I know they are fighting early upgrades. That is a HUGE loss on the price of the device.

Upgrades are such a different beast. It come from the OS provider (Microsoft), through the handset company (HTC, Samsung, Nokia), than has to be approved by AT&T. There seems to be the biggie: AT&T seems to putting the halt on HTC Titan and Titan 2 upgrades. Since it seems the international HTC audience has Tango, the Focus S and Flash both just got it, the hole HAS to be AT&T on this.

Has the Radar gotten it on T-Mobile? (I do not think so, not heard anything.) How about the 710 on T-Mobile?

How is the updates on Canadian carriers?
 

undisputed n00b

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I know they are fighting early upgrades. That is a HUGE loss on the price of the device.

Upgrades are such a different beast. It come from the OS provider (Microsoft), through the handset company (HTC, Samsung, Nokia), than has to be approved by AT&T. There seems to be the biggie: AT&T seems to putting the halt on HTC Titan and Titan 2 upgrades. Since it seems the international HTC audience has Tango, the Focus S and Flash both just got it, the hole HAS to be AT&T on this.

Has the Radar gotten it on T-Mobile? (I do not think so, not heard anything.) How about the 710 on T-Mobile?

How is the updates on Canadian carriers?

Microsoft makes the WP update and they work on all Windows Phones. Carriers have nothing to do other than push the update to users.
 

inteller

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they don't even push the update. They just give the "all clear" for Microsoft to release it.

I'd love to know the fool at ATT who is responsible for signing off on the updates. Obviously he/she remains anonymous out of fear for their life.
 

snowmutt

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Microsoft makes the WP update and they work on all Windows Phones. Carriers have nothing to do other than push the update to users.
Theoretically, yes. But in reality, no. Remeber how much longer it took to get Mango out to one set of Samsung Focus devices due to it's different processor, used due to shortages? I believe the HTC Surround and the Dell Venue Pro were also slower to get the update than other devices. After Mango, Microsoft stated updates were going to be more up to each manufacturer and carrier. No matter how uniformed the updates, there HAS to be testing on each device to ensure each works correctly. The advantage to a uniformed set of hardware requirments is the minimizing of unique problems, not the elimination.

That is why I was curious if I missed the Radar and the 710 on T-Mobile getting the update, I was wondering if T-Mo users were also still waiting.
 

N8ter

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the HD7 was actually a great device at launch, paling only to the Focus. I dont count the DVP cause it was a launch debacle.

ATT has to do NOTHING but call Microsoft and "say push the button" and we all get updates. That lack of such a minimal amount of effort is spiteful and negligent.

The HD7 was nothing but a refreshed HD2 using much of even the same internal hardware components.

It has the second worse camera, worse screen, dubious build quality, and its performance was below most other WP7 devices especially those that used NAND chips for storage.

What helped the HD7 was the fact that it was the only WP7 device on T-Mobile forever, while AT&T had several - even an HD7 variant with a much better screen. Dell had a DVP model with TMOUS frequencies but it was only sold through their online store, where most people DIDN'T look for smartphones...

What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.

That's why smaller carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are more flexible. They aren't as stretched. AT&T has twice the amount of smartphones to test and validate at any given time than T-Mobile or Sprint, and quite a few more than Verizon as well.
 

inteller

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What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.
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this does not hold water and you know it.

There are unlocked versions of the same phones on ATT getting the update AROUND THE WORLD. I'm effing sick of hearing the "we gotta test it" schpiel contrary to what ATT thinks, they and their network are NOT that special so that phones that work just fine around the world with the update will somehow break on theirs. The only thing that would cause them to break would be some useless crap THEY added in, which I DON'T WANT because I want ATT out of my phone!

as far as the number of phones, ATT doesn't carry a great deal more than other carriers around the world (Windows Phones). It really doesn't matter because Microsoft and the OEMs are the ones doing the real work on the updates. ATT has to do very little, if anything, on the firmware.

With other carriers around the world releasing updates, ATT is long out of excuses.
 

scdkad

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And why can't they at least give us reason for screwing us or a timetable of what might be ahead? That's what irks me-the silence. Can't get an answer from anybody in these big corporate bureaucracies..

Sent from my Quantum using Board Express
 

gentry33

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The HD7 was nothing but a refreshed HD2 using much of even the same internal hardware components.

It has the second worse camera, worse screen, dubious build quality, and its performance was below most other WP7 devices especially those that used NAND chips for storage.

What helped the HD7 was the fact that it was the only WP7 device on T-Mobile forever, while AT&T had several - even an HD7 variant with a much better screen. Dell had a DVP model with TMOUS frequencies but it was only sold through their online store, where most people DIDN'T look for smartphones...

What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.

That's why smaller carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are more flexible. They aren't as stretched. AT&T has twice the amount of smartphones to test and validate at any given time than T-Mobile or Sprint, and quite a few more than Verizon as well.

Twice as many phones, and being the behemoth that they are wouldn't they have twice the staff available?
 

jimski

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Hey come on. Lets be serious here. AT&T does test every new update. They test to make sure you can't tether without paying for it. They test to make sure you can't text for the same reason. And they make absolute certain that all the data you use is recorded accurately so they can bill you for overages. When they are sure they are getting paid for everything the update will be ready. Even of the keyboard starts disappearing again.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
 

eric12341

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The HD7 was nothing but a refreshed HD2 using much of even the same internal hardware components.

It has the second worse camera, worse screen, dubious build quality, and its performance was below most other WP7 devices especially those that used NAND chips for storage.

What helped the HD7 was the fact that it was the only WP7 device on T-Mobile forever, while AT&T had several - even an HD7 variant with a much better screen. Dell had a DVP model with TMOUS frequencies but it was only sold through their online store, where most people DIDN'T look for smartphones...

What would be negligent would be for AT&T to say push the button and brick your phone. You may not like the time it takes them to get updates out, but AT&T carries factorably more smartphone models than any carrier in the U.S.A. and sells more smartphones than any other as well.

That's why smaller carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are more flexible. They aren't as stretched. AT&T has twice the amount of smartphones to test and validate at any given time than T-Mobile or Sprint, and quite a few more than Verizon as well.


What does the "crappiness" of the HD7 got to do with AT&T's inability to release updates? It's obvious that they're skipping over the 8107 update and they even admitted it as there was an article on the front page about it back in may I think.
 

jfa1

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They have said it will be out this summer which means that it could be out his month or by mid September. Its not a major update and it will be nice to get it but its not a major deal so there's no sense in getting too worked up about it. Its not worth thrfeatening someone's life and its not worth a stroke or heart attacck and its not anything that any of us have any control over so why get really worked up about. Take a chill pill and enjoy life. Its just your smartphone.
 

jimski

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They have said it will be out this summer which means that it could be out his month or by mid September. Its not a major update and it will be nice to get it but its not a major deal so there's no sense in getting too worked up about it. Its not worth thrfeatening someone's life and its not worth a stroke or heart attacck and its not anything that any of us have any control over so why get really worked up about. Take a chill pill and enjoy life. Its just your smartphone.
Don't think too many AT&T customers are pouting over Tango. They are pouting over what Tango brings though, specifically the 8107 update, which includes the keyboard fix. When was the last time an AT&T device got an official update? That would be Mango, almost a year ago. And that my friend is unacceptable and the reason for this outrage. Starting to remind me of WM, when you were lucky to see any kind of update in the typical two year life of a device. Sad, very sad. One step forward, two steps back.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro
 

gentry33

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Don't think too many AT&T customers are pouting over Tango. They are pouting over what Tango brings though, specifically the 8107 update, which includes the keyboard fix. When was the last time an AT&T device got an official update? That would be Mango, almost a year ago. And that my friend is unacceptable and the reason for this outrage. Starting to remind me of WM, when you were lucky to see any kind of update in the typical two year life of a device. Sad, very sad. One step forward, two steps back.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro

Not to mention MMS update which probably pisses AT&T off, I'm sure their trying to figure out how to make you pay for it.
 

scottcraft

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If I wouldn't have gotten the 8107 update when I did I probably would have gotten a different phone. That update is more important than Tango to me, even though I'm glad I got Tango. Can't believe AT&T has been dragging it's feet on this.
 

mikeeemm

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Has anyone complained to Windows Phone about at&t? I would think letters would state due to at&t i no longer want a wp phone blah blah.
 

inteller

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telling them that would probably make them happy.

No the only way to get their attention is letters from lawyers and nasty calls from the BBB and FCC.
 

N8ter

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this does not hold water and you know it.

There are unlocked versions of the same phones on ATT getting the update AROUND THE WORLD. I'm effing sick of hearing the "we gotta test it" schpiel contrary to what ATT thinks, they and their network are NOT that special so that phones that work just fine around the world with the update will somehow break on theirs. The only thing that would cause them to break would be some useless crap THEY added in, which I DON'T WANT because I want ATT out of my phone!

as far as the number of phones, ATT doesn't carry a great deal more than other carriers around the world (Windows Phones). It really doesn't matter because Microsoft and the OEMs are the ones doing the real work on the updates. ATT has to do very little, if anything, on the firmware.

With other carriers around the world releasing updates, ATT is long out of excuses.

Locked versions still have to be tested to make sure the Carrier's value-added software works correctly, and there are sometimes hardware differences in the phone that make them different than the International Variants. If AT&T Navigator stops working for all of AT&T's customers who use it, they will be pissed, cause they pay for it. Same for T-Mobile TV and other Carrier Branded services.

International Unlocked variants do not have to worry about this, because those phones are almost always sold off-contract and without any value-add software pre-loaded (how easy it is to uninstall is not important).

Additionally, with an Unlocked Phone your first line of defense for support is the OEM. With a Carrier Branded phone your first line of defense for support is the Carrier. They want to protect themselves. Any business would do that, irregardless of the market.

The argument holds water. You just don't want to accept it because you want what you want NOW.

AT&T has the Focus, HD7S, Surround, some LG phone I forget, Focus S, Focus 2, Titan, Titan 2, Lumia 900 to support.

T-Mobile has the HD7, Radar, and Lumia 710 (maybe another low end Nokia?).

Verizon and Sprint both have only 1 Windows Phone, IIRC.

The situation with Updates in the USA is not the same as in other parts of the world. In Europe and Asia updates tend to come very quickly to devices even of the same model than here. Carriers here are completely different than there.

I compare AT&T to their competing carriers HERE because they're in the same market. It makes more sense. Comparing them to Vodafone makes absolutely no sense nevermind AT&T has to support (through updates) way more Windows Phones than IIRC any European carrier.

They still have to support even some phones that aren't being actively sold now. It's why phones like the Focus still get updates. Look at the bigger picture.

In addition to that they have a ton of Android phones to support, they carry all the BB7 devices, and have a more varied Tablet PCs portfolio than any carrier here - and they have more subscribers on their network with smartphones than any other carrier in the US (and on a wider variety of smartphones).

AT&T will be slower than other carriers in 90% of cases simply because no one can expect them to staff a QA department the size of Google or Microsoft to get it done in record time for a few complainers and demolish their profits. They're in it to make money? Want LTE soon? Deal with it and maybe they'll be able to afford to bring it to you before next century, if it isn't there already.
 
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N8ter

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Twice as many phones, and being the behemoth that they are wouldn't they have twice the staff available?

Because they probably sell 40% iPhones and Apple does most of the support for those.

Not sure why you're trying to correlate the amount of smartphones they sale to the amount of staff they should have when you obviously have no clue about the actual data therein.
 

Long Syntax

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Sorry, but I disagree. You make some reasoned points about the size of AT&T and time needed to test, but when it comes to the disappearing keyboard, you are wrong. 8107 was available from MS in January, in march most carriers made it available, but AT&T users are still waiting. I've had this keyboard issue going on a year soon, and it is unreasonable for me to have to "deal with it". I just don't think waiting this long for a fix is reasonable. So, royal screw job fits in this case as far as I'm concerned.
 

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