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08-10-2012 04:46 PM
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  1. kenzibit's Avatar
    Which is better? First gen or second gen phones? IMO, first gen is better because of long time experience with nice updates. On the second hand, 2nd Gen phone just have a short time experience, just take the Apollo scenario we are facing now: all first gen owners had a great time with their device (2 yrs) before knowing they won't be able to upgrade as compared to 2nd gen devices owners only having months of experience, in any way that would have changed if only they were able to upgrade to WP8. Now I'm making this point because in case MS changes the kernel or does anything that will make WP8 not upgradeable to WP9, then I suggest we get first gen devices rather than 2nd gens because of time frame for experience...what do you guys think?

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    08-06-2012 11:53 AM
  2. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Of course 1st Gen WP8 will have better support than Gen 2. If you're choosing between devices now, though, there's no reason to go Gen 1 WP7 and not Gen 2. I also agree that we should be concerned that a WP8 Windows RT kernel may not be compatible with a WP9 possibly x86 kernel. ARM to x86 would be an even bigger leap than single core to dual core.

    I'm so tired of Microsoft playing these games. At least the silver lining is that I can't see a technological reason why WP9 wouldn't be compatible with WP10, yet. Maybe if WP9 is single core x86 and Microsoft uses the stupid excuse single core is not compatible with dual core again...

    I still think Microsoft's strategy of constant complete OS startovers (Windows Mobile 6.0/WP7/WP8) will bite it in the back. WP8 might not meet all the hype and then Microsoft will have none of the WP7 users in its ecosystem to help out.
    08-06-2012 02:22 PM
  3. kenzibit's Avatar
    Exactly and I'm getting tired of those kind of excuses and making us not upgrade.

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    08-06-2012 03:03 PM
  4. snowmutt's Avatar
    If the whole idea here is MS is not supporting WP Mango devices as opposed to the fact that they did the Pre-NoDo devices, you are correct. 1st gen was more supported. From NoDo to Mango, 1st Gen recieved improvements and updates at a good pace as they became available. Tons of second gen devices are still waiting on firmware just to keep their keyboards from disappearing. No way WP owners should still be fighting that. But I am still happy to give MS the benefit of the doubt on the 7.8 update. It could have a ton of fun features and really add new lives to our 7.5 devices. But overall, unless 7.8 is amazing, you may have to give the nod to the older clan.


    If you want to make the case on diversity in form factors, than it isn't even close. You have to go 1st gen devices. There was good sized slabs (HD7/HD7S), Medium (Focus), and small (Trophy, Surround). There were keyboard options (Venue Pro, Arrive) and something different (Surround again).

    Mango? All slabs, but a nice range of them (Lumia 710 - Titan). Points for 4G on second Gen.


    The first gen devices had personality and support just not present on current devices. I am not as worried about support on WP8. The Kernal idea is to push the entire ecosystem, and Microsoft isn't going to change that up every year.

    Form factors? We probably will never see as nice of a set of options as we did on the first gen of WP, not even on WP8. That is a little sad.
    08-06-2012 08:18 PM
  5. eric12341's Avatar
    Are we really going to debate this again? MS has already said that this kernel change won't occur again for some time and at that time all devices will be affected simultaneously, no one complained when the win9x kernel was killed off. It's going to be awhile longer before the NT kernel is killed off. ARM,x86 and x64 aren't kernels they're architectures, it may be possible to see WP9 or even some WP8's with full x86/64 processors but who knows? Talk about beating a dead horse.
    Nataku4ca likes this.
    08-06-2012 09:18 PM
  6. pjs37's Avatar
    Are we really going to debate this again? MS has already said that this kernel change won't occur again for some time and at that time all devices will be affected simultaneously, no one complained when the win9x kernel was killed off. It's going to be awhile longer before the NT kernel is killed off. ARM,x86 and x64 aren't kernels they're architectures, it may be possible to see WP9 or even some WP8's with full x86/64 processors but who knows? Talk about beating a dead horse.
    Most likely due to the fact that MS has not shown this to be true in any case. They said when WP7 was released and killed of WM 6.5 that they were done this was a complete reboot that was needed. And then two years later they do it again and this time leaving tons of new users out to dry with no support. So historically there is no evidence they won't do this again with WP 9
    kenzibit likes this.
    08-07-2012 10:32 AM
  7. HeyCori's Avatar
    with no support.
    And thus the FUD spreading begins. Hope you guys enjoy another thread of lies and half truths. Peace.
    eric12341 and aubreyq like this.
    08-07-2012 11:18 AM
  8. eric12341's Avatar
    Most likely due to the fact that MS has not shown this to be true in any case. They said when WP7 was released and killed of WM 6.5 that they were done this was a complete reboot that was needed. And then two years later they do it again and this time leaving tons of new users out to dry with no support. So historically there is no evidence they won't do this again with WP 9
    6.5 to 7 was only a partial reboot and the NT kernel wasn't compatible with ARM at the time or else they would've done it then. The Greg Sullivan interview explains this.
    snowmutt likes this.
    08-07-2012 12:32 PM
  9. snowmutt's Avatar
    And thus the FUD spreading begins. Hope you guys enjoy another thread of lies and half truths. Peace.
    I certainly stated that I felt WP 8 was going to last. But there is nothing wrong with an honest assessment of the lifespan of devices. There is also something about that whole "those who do not learn from the past" thing. Microsoft either has learned from the past, and WP 8 will be a monster hit and it's lifespan will be built upon for years, or we as consumers need to learn from the past or be doomed to repeat it.

    I do stand by my comment about 1st Gen devices having way more personality than this Gen. I understand it is just more cost effective to produce full touch screens, but I miss choices.
    Last edited by snowmutt; 08-07-2012 at 01:48 PM.
    08-07-2012 01:32 PM
  10. HeyCori's Avatar
    I certainly stated that I felt WP 8 was going to last. But there is nothing wrong with an honest assessment of the lifespan of devices. There is also something about that whole those who do not learn from the past thing. Microsoft either has learned from the past, and WP 8 will be a monster hit and it's lifespan will be built upon for years, or we as consumers need to learn from the past or be doomed to repeat it.

    I do stand by my comment about 1st Gen devices having way more personality than this Gen. I understand it is just more cost effective to produce full touch screens, but I miss choices.
    There's nothing wrong with an honest assessment but Nokia have said they will continue to support 2nd gen devices and Microsoft also pledged continue support. And while that probably means nothing more than apps and (if need be) bug fixes, 7.8 will still have someone watching over it even after the release of WP8. Also, Microsoft has stated that they are bringing the new start screen and more but have yet to specify what additional features might come.
    08-07-2012 01:49 PM
  11. jfa1's Avatar
    The simple truth which needs to be accepted is this innovation in technology is ALWAYS marching on sometimes that causes a jump in architecture or hardware and the old gets left behind. sometimes its major sometimes its minor sometimes theres an update sometimes its too major to stay with the old. Apple is going to a smaller connector. Its still proprietary . To me it would have made more sense to have switched to micro usb the current standard. Sheesh people. Is there a darn thing that you can do which will make any difference now in what MS has done? NO. So stop whining about it and move on to something else to discuss that has a chance of helping the situation with WP 7.8 and 8! PLEASE!
    08-07-2012 01:55 PM
  12. kenzibit's Avatar
    Most likely due to the fact that MS has not shown this to be true in any case. They said when WP7 was released and killed of WM 6.5 that they were done this was a complete reboot that was needed. And then two years later they do it again and this time leaving tons of new users out to dry with no support. So historically there is no evidence they won't do this again with WP 9
    Exactly, and I'm guessing somewhere 2015 it will happen again

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    08-07-2012 02:49 PM
  13. kenzibit's Avatar
    And thus the FUD spreading begins. Hope you guys enjoy another thread of lies and half truths. Peace.
    with every lie, there's a truth in it. Your statement is what most people said when we back then debated about wp7 not upgrading to wp8.....and yet still what we all said came to past....we are not getting apollo so u can keep on living in your dreamland ..peace

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    08-07-2012 02:54 PM
  14. kenzibit's Avatar
    6.5 to 7 was only a partial reboot and the NT kernel wasn't compatible with ARM at the time or else they would've done it then. The Greg Sullivan interview explains this.
    so I guess the next one will be a kernel upgrade...smh

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    Last edited by kenzibit; 08-07-2012 at 03:35 PM.
    08-07-2012 02:57 PM
  15. HeyCori's Avatar
    with every lie, there's a truth in it. Your statement is what most people said when we back then debated about wp7 not upgrading to wp8.....and yet still what we all said came to past....we are not getting apollo so u can keep on living in your dreamland ..peace

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    Good comeback. I will frame it...
    08-07-2012 02:58 PM
  16. kenzibit's Avatar
    There's nothing wrong with an honest assessment but Nokia have said they will continue to support 2nd gen devices and Microsoft also pledged continue support. And while that probably means nothing more than apps and (if need be) bug fixes, 7.8 will still have someone watching over it even after the release of WP8. Also, Microsoft has stated that they are bringing the new start screen and more but have yet to specify what additional features might come.
    Always relying on these statements, guess you haven't been a microsoft fan for long. These are mere statements made to chill out angry consumers. You can bet on this, wp7.8 wont last for half a year when wp8 comes out. Just look at the app hub now WP Dev Center right now...its rebranding and all the in app purchases will do something, do you know what, it's pushing developers to wp8. No developer i bet you will develop for wp7 coz of it's difficulty as compared to wp8. For me, i don't believe what ms or nokia says, when it comes to letting us down again, they will definitely let us down....its all about the Benjamins dude.

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    Last edited by kenzibit; 08-07-2012 at 03:38 PM.
    08-07-2012 03:11 PM
  17. kenzibit's Avatar
    The simple truth which needs to be accepted is this innovation in technology is ALWAYS marching on sometimes that causes a jump in architecture or hardware and the old gets left behind. sometimes its major sometimes its minor sometimes theres an update sometimes its too major to stay with the old!
    I agree, with you perfectly but a shift shouldn't be every 2 years.



    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    08-07-2012 03:19 PM
  18. eric12341's Avatar
    They aren't shifting again for quite sometime, get over it!
    08-07-2012 03:38 PM
  19. kenzibit's Avatar
    They aren't shifting again for quite sometime, get over it!
    Yes brother, I pray it happens so coz I'm definitely getting a first gen WP8 device and will be sad if I'm not able to upgrade to WP9. It will add up to my Sony ericsson aspen Windows Mobile which is collecting dust and to my yet to be forgotten HD7.
    08-07-2012 03:44 PM
  20. HeyCori's Avatar
    Always relying on these statements, guess you haven't been a microsoft fan for long. These are mere statements made to chill out angry consumers. You can bet on this, wp7.8 wont last for half a year when wp8 comes out. Just look at the app hub now WP Dev Center right now...its rebranding and all the in app purchases will do something, do you know what, it's pushing developers to wp8. No developer i bet you will develop for wp7 coz of it's difficulty as compared to wp8. For me, i don't believe what ms or nokia says, when it comes to letting us down again, they will definitely let us down....its all about the Benjamins dude.

    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    So basically trust no one, believe in kenzibit? Deal.
    kenzibit likes this.
    08-07-2012 04:24 PM
  21. kenzibit's Avatar
    So basically trust no one, believe in kenzibit? Deal.
    Lol...just sharing my thoughts bro......just sharing my thoughts :)
    snowmutt likes this.
    08-07-2012 05:38 PM
  22. HeyCori's Avatar
    lol
    snowmutt likes this.
    08-07-2012 05:43 PM
  23. pjs37's Avatar
    There's nothing wrong with an honest assessment but Nokia have said they will continue to support 2nd gen devices and Microsoft also pledged continue support. And while that probably means nothing more than apps and (if need be) bug fixes, 7.8 will still have someone watching over it even after the release of WP8. Also, Microsoft has stated that they are bringing the new start screen and more but have yet to specify what additional features might come.
    I just want to say I hope I am stupidly wrong so when I am gushing over whatever someone will say "Hey aren't you one of the idiots who said MS wouldn't support this and look they did" but honestly I think there is more truth in their actions rather than what they say. They say other features coming features coming in 7.8 bu won't say what it is. Well we know what it isn't so far. The fact that they won't even support in-app purchases something that wouldn't even need a change to anything on the phone I think spells volumes. What we will get probably will be the start screen, and some trademark changes like Zune music being rebranded, and maybe some compatibility for outlook.com names like a new icon for that. They are not leaving much hope for anything with their announcements so far. Heck we won't even get 7.8 until after WP8 is launched it sounds like.

    If you want to see something how MS handled it last time read this: Microsoft:

    and then look at how WM 6.5 died.
    aubreyq and kenzibit like this.
    08-07-2012 08:06 PM
  24. kenzibit's Avatar
    I just want to say I hope I am stupidly wrong so when I am gushing over whatever someone will say "Hey aren't you one of the idiots who said MS wouldn't support this and look they did" but honestly I think there is more truth in their actions rather than what they say. They say other features coming features coming in 7.8 bu won't say what it is. Well we know what it isn't so far. The fact that they won't even support in-app purchases something that wouldn't even need a change to anything on the phone I think spells volumes. What we will get probably will be the start screen, and some trademark changes like Zune music being rebranded, and maybe some compatibility for outlook.com names like a new icon for that. They are not leaving much hope for anything with their announcements so far. Heck we won't even get 7.8 until after WP8 is launched it sounds like.



    If you want to see something how MS handled it last time read this: Microsoft:

    and then look at how WM 6.5 died.
    Soo sweet, thank you.
    And I quote from the article:
    "For its part, Microsoft says it will not abandon the current Windows Mobile 6.x platform once Windows Phone 7 arrives. The OS will be rebranded as Windows Phone Classic and retained for budget-minded smartphone buyers as well as business customers with 6.x-based apps."
    This is deja vu' with WP7 now and I really dont want to comment anymore. This is indeed the Microsoft way and there's nothing we can do about it....no doubt. I love Windows Phone (will never switch) but I goess it doesn't love me, what I call, The Curse of an Early Adopter :(
    And for the fun part, the HTC HD2 back then is now the Lumia 900 and Titan II....LOL ;)


    Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express
    Last edited by kenzibit; 08-07-2012 at 09:09 PM.
    aubreyq, snowmutt and pjs37 like this.
    08-07-2012 08:36 PM
  25. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Most likely due to the fact that MS has not shown this to be true in any case. They said when WP7 was released and killed of WM 6.5 that they were done this was a complete reboot that was needed. And then two years later they do it again and this time leaving tons of new users out to dry with no support. So historically there is no evidence they won't do this again with WP 9
    Are you saying you have inside knowledge on the development of a new kernel for both Windows and Windows Phone?
    08-07-2012 08:47 PM
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