08-14-2012 09:35 AM
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  1. scottcraft's Avatar
    the newest processors used are from 2009...

    It actually is missing basic functionality like true volume control, it does an iota of what android can do.

    For a basic user, great..

    For someone who actually uses their phone as more than just a basic phone, not so great.

    MY nexus destroys either of the wp7 phones I had in battery life (and functionality but that is a different topic). A lot of this has to do with more efficient processors. Newer tech isnt just a rat race, it does bring improvements.
    I will agree that android can offer more functionality, but to compare WP to a dumb phone is really selling it short. There isn't much I do on my android that I don't do on my WP. I will go so far as to say my HTC Trophy in the hands of someone that knows how to use it can accomplish more than someone with a galaxy S3 that isn't as familiar with their phone.
    palandri and eric12341 like this.
    08-13-2012 09:57 PM
  2. cckgz4's Avatar
    I thought I ignored that detox fellow

    Anyhow, to whomever said that battery life isn't a factor, please don't apply that to me. Out of all the smartphones I've had, every single one of then (except my blackberry curve) would die on me before work, and that was just on standby. My mytouch faired better but my lumia has lasted the longest.
    08-13-2012 10:06 PM
  3. fisci's Avatar
    I will agree that android can offer more functionality, but to compare WP to a dumb phone is really selling it short. There isn't much I do on my android that I don't do on my WP. I will go so far as to say my HTC Trophy in the hands of someone that knows how to use it can accomplish more than someone with a galaxy S3 that isn't as familiar with their phone.
    not comparing it to a dumb phone, I meant basic things like checking facebook or twitter, sending email, etc...

    To argue that better specs is pointless though blows my mind. (not you, but a common consensus on these boards)

    Even to have an up to date single processor would probably double battery life and you would see a huge perfomance boost when it came to apps/games.
    08-13-2012 10:06 PM
  4. eric12341's Avatar
    the newest processors used are from 2009...

    It actually is missing basic functionality like true volume control, it does an iota of what android can do.

    For a basic user, great..

    For someone who actually uses their phone as more than just a basic phone, not so great.

    MY nexus destroys either of the wp7 phones I had in battery life (and functionality but that is a different topic). A lot of this has to do with more efficient processors. Newer tech isnt just a rat race, it does bring improvements.
    May I remind you that you are on WPCentral?

    I thought I ignored that detox fellow

    Anyhow, to whomever said that battery life isn't a factor, please don't apply that to me. Out of all the smartphones I've had, every single one of then (except my blackberry curve) would die on me before work, and that was just on standby. My mytouch faired better but my lumia has lasted the longest.
    unfortunately the ignore does nothing and is almost useless when people quote what he says.
    08-13-2012 10:19 PM
  5. cckgz4's Avatar
    To stay on topic:

    - live tiles. For me, they carry more information especially with contacts. Yes HTC and Samsung have similar features BUT what about for the different type of people you follow? I have four groups: family, coworkers, friends, and a twitter group. Each contain at least 8 people. It would take very long to see each of those contacts daily conversations on android and ios than it would on WP

    - full social network integration

    - Zune integration. The legacy paying members benefit from the monthly 10 free songs. And in my opinion, that gives it a one up over the competition. The only thing it lacks is social network listing, but Tweet It has a "now playing" live tile that I use

    - better stock keyboard, imo

    - notification system. Yes I know the vast majority hates WP notification system BUT for me it works. The glimpse and go really applies to people like me, and for notifications for my highly used apps they are on my start screen. I don't like android's notification bar because it can get cluttered and voicemails don't disappear unless you listen. I like apple's better

    Things it doesn't have that I look at in other smartphones:

    - accessories, mainly directed at the iPhone. I would looove to have some manufacturer to get on board with a group to make a lot of great cases and other things

    - at the times I need it, flash

    - downloading media files from the browser
    08-13-2012 10:21 PM
  6. N8ter's Avatar
    1. Everyone in my group had iPhones or windows PCs. The rest of the post you're pretty much refuting what I said.

    2. Do these services also allow streaming of music videos in HD? Do these services also sync and track everything you've listened to and give recommendations based on it. You said they allow purchasing of music without a subscription, therefore it's no different than iTunes. With Zune you can stream the music without purchasing


    So you were able to get that out of everything else I said? Interesting, this isn't much of a rebuttal either.
    1. Not sure what that has to do with what I said. On Google Drive to do colaborative editing you need the file to be in Google Docs format or a bunch of functionality is broken. Uploading a DocX is about as useful as uploading a WordPerfect 8 document to SkyDrive for this use case. Save the file in Office 2003 format like any intelligent person would. Support for DocX isn't nearly as ubiquitous. Why is that so hard to comprehend... Office 2010 will still open the 2003 format documents. Seriously, it's not hard...

    Also nothing is stopping them from downloading it to their PC or iPhone and viewing it in the built-in or purchased Apps (even some reputable free Apps allow viewing AND editing on iOS so that's no excuse either). Google Drive doubles up as storage. I store files that Docs can't read in there all the time, but apps on my PC or phone CAN.

    2. Video Unlimited | Sony Entertainment Network

    Eye-popping 3D, 1080p, HD or SD available
    Yes, you can stream HD to a mobile as well because I had the Sony Xperia Ion for a while and tried it. Worked real nice with the mHDMI port on that phone. Zune Pass is a paid service. You do not stream music videos for free. You stream them as part of your Zune Pass subscription, and they only added that in because they were tired of giving away 10 free tracks a month and needed an incentive for people to subscribe - otherwise it's really not much different than about 10 other services out there...

    Music Unlimited allows you to Sync stuff offline and has the My Channels feature (similar, but not the same as, smart DJ). Look, stop asking me rhetorical questions about stuff you can easily look up. You obviously haven't used those other services. I have. I know what I'm talking about. Zune Pass isn't anything special... Really...

    What I meant is that even if you don't subscribe to Music Unlimited you can still purchase music from them (and obviously you can purchase from Google Play, but it isn't a Streaming Service and never claimed to be, outside of streaming your stored/purchased tracks from your music Locker there - no different than Streaming from an Amazon Cloud Drive BTW!), the same way you can purchase iTunes Music/Videos/Music Videos without signing up from iTunes in the Cloud/iTunes Match. You cannot really be that bad at comprehending English...
    Last edited by N8ter; 08-14-2012 at 02:39 AM.
    08-14-2012 02:09 AM
  7. TaliZorah's Avatar
    I have the galaxy s3 and its a great device. Smooth lag free and fast, but you just can't beat the beauty and social integration wp8 is going to have. I like android and will keep my s3 but will purchase a wp8 phone as soon as they are out. Every OS has strength and weaknesses you just have to find what suits you better
    I had an S3 for three weeks. It was great at first but I started to really miss the games that WP7 had and how fluid it was. My S3 started to get pretty laggy and I micro-managed my memory and cpu usage constantly. After I was done with ANYTHING on the S3 I would hold the home button, go to task manager, kill all running apps, then clear the memory.

    Every. single. time. It just feels like a phone that doesent take care of itself. Yeah I understand the very high amount of customization etc etc. But I want my phone to be my phone. Not a mini-computer where my service provider recommened I get a security app.

    When i had sprit and the EVO 4G LTE every time I loaded up the sprint app there was a BIG RED exclamation mark next to "phone security" and recommened I downloaded mobile norton, AVG, or something else.

    Then when I noticed that some apps will even put ads on your home screen and notification bar it made me really paranoid about downloading ANY app on google play. I also hate the fact that google automatically signs you up for accounts that you will never use like google plus, youtube... etc. I don't want accounts for all that crap.

    I was constantly making sure my phone was safe and had clear memory and good cpu usage. Maybe I am just too OCD for android but I will take a "lesser" phone to have something I don't have to micro manage.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    08-14-2012 02:13 AM
  8. N8ter's Avatar
    obviously you don't get his point....

    using old processors is not going to get you good battery life.

    Wp7 phones have conistently some of the worst battery life because of their bargain bin components.

    Most reviews also don't only use that criteria (who does these days??), many stream continuous hd video, or try it a few days under real world usage.
    This... And it goes beyond the SoC, there's a ton of components that are just old and/or using old technology that simply isn't as efficient. The reason why Apple is able to get as much out of their 1400'ish mAh batteries (in the iPhones) is because they use efficient components and optimize the crap out of the Drivers and Software. This is true for a lot of things, and this applies to some OEM Android devices as well, particularly those from Samsung (esp since the GS2) and to a lesser extent HTC.

    If your BT 2.1 Stack uses more power than a BT 3.0/4.0 stack, no amount of "buttery smooth software optimization" will make it use less power than it does. Same for the SoC. The other guys would have to have absolutely abysmal drivers for those old processors to use less power than most of the Dual Core SoCs in use.

    **Typo in my post I meant Android is NOW GPU Accellerated not "Not GPU Accellerated" and you're right he absolutely missed the point.**

    The newer CPUs are more efficient just by virtue of their design. Newer BT stacks are more efficient just by virtue of their design. This applies to a lot of components. Even the RAM in the phone, or the Storage chips. It all adds up. Add on the fact that an Old SoC probably has an older less-efficient LTE radio tacked on to it, which can do a number on actual in-use time outside of talking (i.e. using your data connection in an LTE area). Talk time is a terrible metric by which to measure smartphone battery life, because smartphones are used these days predominantly NOT to talk by a metric ton of people, but rather to access services and consume content.

    Data-based In-Use time is more important to a ton of smartphone users than Talk Time, especially for people like me who use over 2.5GB data a month but never use more than 80 minutes a month talk time. Don't think my phone is ever in danger of dying because I'm talking on it, you know.

    I really and truly do not understand why you are saying this. I have had three Androids ranging from 1.6 to 4.03 and also a week with GSM GN with JB. I liked them all for a variety of reason and I disliked them for a variety of reasons as well. None of them had battery life that comes par with my 900, the Vivid was the worst, dying by mid afternoon and the Atrix the best making it about 12 hours.

    The GN with an extended OEM battery would make 24 hours.

    I also don't understand the comment about "bargain bin " components but if those components give me a problem free device that does everything I did on my Androids and more, in a smooth stylish manner and lasts longer, then bargain bin is a definite bargain. :)
    I had an HTC Vivid on ICS and it lasted all day with moderate use, so I'm not sure what that issue was. Maybe it was the FW. The ICS added hours to that phone's battery life. Also factor in the Vivid has only a 1620 mAh battery, noticeably smaller than the 900's. That's something people always love to forget to mention :-) It has a Dual S3 SoC, but a qHD LCD screen in lieu of OLED WVGA on the 900 (so the phone is doing more work than the 900 just by virtue of the number of pixels it's pushing) and it launched running sense 3.x on GB. Most people run a black background on their WP7 home screen, which saves battery on OLED screens. You can do that on a Samsung phone or some other with a SAMOLED or similar OLED screen, but you cannot do that on the Vivid since it is packing LCD. The Sense 3.0 FW wasn't that great for optimization. The Vivid gained hours of battery life going from 3.0/GB to 3.6/ICS. I used one for 29 days.

    The Vivid was one of the first non-Nexus devices to recieve an ICS update (the first US non-Nexus device to get an ICS update, IIRC).

    My issue with that phone wasn't battery life (that was more than fine), but size (it was big and heavy, esp with an Otterbox). It was simply too husky for my liking. Looked nice in white, though :-(

    WP7 doesn't give you everything in Android and more. It's more than fine to have your preference, but don't stretch it. This can be objectively proven, you know...

    By "bargain bin components," he's referring to Microsoft using older components to allow its hardware partners to get better volume deals on "on the outs" equipment as opposed to being forced to compete with Android and iOS in the spec race on more pricy components (which would lower their margins and/or raise the price of the devices as a result). It's not different than getting the old washed out games at KMart for $9.99 while the rich kids are buying the Skyrims, etc. on release date for $59.99. With all WP7 device manufacturers in that pool, it would have driven the costs for the components up, as well, since supply is already stretched thin in a lot of cases (i.e. Screen supply can be volatile).

    WVGA display panels and old single core CPUs, old BT stacks (i.e. 2.1 instead of 3.0+HS or 4), etc. are components that have been relegated largely to mid-ranged and low-end devices since early to mid-2011... WP7 launched with hardware specs over 1 year out of the mainstream and has made little to no headway with Mango. It left a sour taste in people's mouths and it was slightly justified since we know how the Mango device upgrade plans to WP8 are going to pan out - largely due to hardware shortcomings.
    Last edited by N8ter; 08-14-2012 at 02:48 AM.
    MrBurrrns likes this.
    08-14-2012 02:34 AM
  9. eric12341's Avatar
    1. Not sure what that has to do with what I said. On Google Drive to do colaborative editing you need the file to be in Google Docs format or a bunch of functionality is broken. Uploading a DocX is about as useful as uploading a WordPerfect 8 document to SkyDrive for this use case. Save the file in Office 2003 format like any intelligent person would. Support for DocX isn't nearly as ubiquitous. Why is that so hard to comprehend... Office 2010 will still open the 2003 format documents. Seriously, it's not hard...

    Also nothing is stopping them from downloading it to their PC or iPhone and viewing it in the built-in or purchased Apps (even some reputable free Apps allow viewing AND editing on iOS so that's no excuse either). Google Drive doubles up as storage. I store files that Docs can't read in there all the time, but apps on my PC or phone CAN.

    2. Video Unlimited | Sony Entertainment Network



    Yes, you can stream HD to a mobile as well because I had the Sony Xperia Ion for a while and tried it. Worked real nice with the mHDMI port on that phone. Zune Pass is a paid service. You do not stream music videos for free. You stream them as part of your Zune Pass subscription, and they only added that in because they were tired of giving away 10 free tracks a month and needed an incentive for people to subscribe - otherwise it's really not much different than about 10 other services out there...

    Music Unlimited allows you to Sync stuff offline and has the My Channels feature (similar, but not the same as, smart DJ). Look, stop asking me rhetorical questions about stuff you can easily look up. You obviously haven't used those other services. I have. I know what I'm talking about. Zune Pass isn't anything special... Really...

    What I meant is that even if you don't subscribe to Music Unlimited you can still purchase music from them (and obviously you can purchase from Google Play, but it isn't a Streaming Service and never claimed to be, outside of streaming your stored/purchased tracks from your music Locker there - no different than Streaming from an Amazon Cloud Drive BTW!), the same way you can purchase iTunes Music/Videos/Music Videos without signing up from iTunes in the Cloud/iTunes Match. You cannot really be that bad at comprehending English...
    1. You are stating that Google docs doesn't have the same amount of support that SkyDrive does, which is what I originally said.

    2. I'm pretty sure music unlimited is a subscription service too. If they don't allow streaming then that doesn't make them better or more value than Zune pass. Zune still allows you to purchase music without a subscription as well. If I was with those other services and listening to music as much as I do I would've been bankrupt alot sooner. The amount of songs I listen to with my Zune pass by streaming or downloading far surpasses the cost of the Zune pass $45 or $30 for 3 months. If I were to buy every single one of those songs on the other services which don't allow free streaming or downloads I would've spent far more than $45 in the 3 month period. This also excludes the music videos, I'm sure you'd have to pay for each one too similar to how Zune used to be before the NXE update.
    08-14-2012 04:21 AM
  10. MrBurrrns's Avatar
    *guffaws*

    Really? So folks make you post on here cause you feel the need to "correct" their opinions?
    Not opinions. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. But facts should stick to what's real and true. Or would you prefer if people would just make stuff up?
    08-14-2012 04:35 AM
  11. X0LARIUM's Avatar
    OK guys..I'm a practically a nobody here. But can we please stop with all the aggression, flak, sarcasm, anger, hate speeches..please it's a genuine request. I love this place and I really appreciate everyone's perspective...but stop attacking each other.
    You have to understand that half of the things are speculations. The other half are just unconfirmed rumors. Not one single official word is out yet as to what or how the devices will be. So its practically pointless in fighting over it.

    Secondly, the Android/iOS vs WP war is also childish in my opinion. All three platforms are great in its own right. What an iPhone can do an Android can't. And what an Android can WP can't. And vice versa x 2. :P

    So please guys. Sincere request, let harmony prevail.

    Cheers!


    Sent from my RaZr Nexus.
    scottcraft likes this.
    08-14-2012 05:21 AM
  12. cp2_4eva's Avatar
    OK guys..I'm a practically a nobody here. But can we please stop with all the aggression, flak, sarcasm, anger, hate speeches..please it's a genuine request. I love this place and I really appreciate everyone's perspective...but stop attacking each other.
    You have to understand that half of the things are speculations. The other half are just unconfirmed rumors. Not one single official word is out yet as to what or how the devices will be. So its practically pointless in fighting over it.

    Secondly, the Android/iOS vs WP war is also childish in my opinion. All three platforms are great in its own right. What an iPhone can do an Android can't. And what an Android can WP can't. And vice versa x 2. :P

    So please guys. Sincere request, let harmony prevail.

    Cheers!


    Sent from my RaZr Nexus.
    I also would like some folks to chill out with such remarks, but it's not going to happen unless a moderator gets involved and even still...it will happen. Some people have STRONG opinion about a device they use, despise, previously owned, etc. It's a public forum and some people choose to vent their frustrations here. To me it grants way to some healthy debate, but it also tends to drift from the subject matter of the original post.

    All I am saying is, don't waste your breathe. lol. Leave it to the mods. They are decent at what they do at times.
    08-14-2012 06:39 AM
  13. mprice86's Avatar
    OK guys..I'm a practically a nobody here. But can we please stop with all the aggression, flak, sarcasm, anger, hate speeches..please it's a genuine request. I love this place and I really appreciate everyone's perspective...but stop attacking each other.
    You have to understand that half of the things are speculations. The other half are just unconfirmed rumors. Not one single official word is out yet as to what or how the devices will be. So its practically pointless in fighting over it.

    Secondly, the Android/iOS vs WP war is also childish in my opinion. All three platforms are great in its own right. What an iPhone can do an Android can't. And what an Android can WP can't. And vice versa x 2. :P

    So please guys. Sincere request, let harmony prevail.

    Cheers!


    Sent from my RaZr Nexus.
    It's always the way with threads like these though, I do my best to avoid them if possible.

    My perspective on the argument is that by the end of the year there will be very little to differentiate between the platforms in terms of OS features and hardware components. It will be hardware and software design and app/developer support that differentiates the three platforms.
    scottcraft and X0LARIUM like this.
    08-14-2012 08:07 AM
  14. N8ter's Avatar
    1. You are stating that Google docs doesn't have the same amount of support that SkyDrive does, which is what I originally said.
    Google Docs has superior collaboration features compared to SkyDrive. That's what I initially said. I also initially said that Google Docs supports Office Documents just fine, you just have to do what every other moderately intelligent person does and NOT use the sketchy (in terms of 3rd party support) Office Open XML format files. Microsoft tweaks that every office version, while the Binary .DOC format has been relatively stable from Office 97 to 2003. Most Online and Offline 3rd party office suites support that pretty much flawlessly. If you want I can YouTube Google Docs exporting a complete .DOC to Google Docs format for Editing and some of the Collaboration Features.

    The crux of your argument was that you uploaded a .DOCX and Google Docs failed on it. Well, no ****. If you tried to open that in LibreOffice or a dozen other office documents there would likely be some differences as well. Everyone in the know knows this.

    That is why Corporations standardize their office suites. When uploading to cloud services and sharing with other people in the real world you should typically share in a format that is more universally supported. DOC > DOCX (PPT > PPTX, XLS > XLSX, and Photos should be in JPEG format because some people's devices may or may not have issues with PNGs although scanned Documents are often sent in TIFF).

    2. I'm pretty sure music unlimited is a subscription service too. If they don't allow streaming then that doesn't make them better or more value than Zune pass. Zune still allows you to purchase music without a subscription as well. If I was with those other services and listening to music as much as I do I would've been bankrupt alot sooner. The amount of songs I listen to with my Zune pass by streaming or downloading far surpasses the cost of the Zune pass $45 or $30 for 3 months. If I were to buy every single one of those songs on the other services which don't allow free streaming or downloads I would've spent far more than $45 in the 3 month period. This also excludes the music videos, I'm sure you'd have to pay for each one too similar to how Zune used to be before the NXE update.
    You completely missed the point. It's like you didn't even try... Go back and reread our little exchanges. I'm done with you.

    I love how you ask a question, get a response (that proves you wrong), completely ignore it and go off on a[nother] tangent...

    Music Unlimited allows you to purchase music without a subscription. I've said this multiple times. It also allows you to preview tracks (30 seconds) without a Subscription.

    It allows you to Play Artist-based Radio Stations, has a feature similar to Smart DJ called SenseMe. It allows you to cache Music and Playlists offline like Zune Pass does.

    For Music, Music Unlimited costs the same as Zune Pass. No, they don't do music videos, but 90% of the people I know don't care to pay to stream anything they can get for free from/via/through their phone's YouTube App (cause 90% of the time they're there) or VEVO. The Music Videos on Zune Pass are almost ignorable as an advantage over any other service, and came at the expense of giving up 10 free tracks a month which IMO isn't not a worthy compromise.

    Did you even click on the link to clue yourself in on the service before you spouted this crap?
    MrBurrrns likes this.
    08-14-2012 09:29 AM
  15. palandri's Avatar
    I am really getting sick of the arrogant, know it all arguing. Closed.
    cckgz4, Dethzilla, CDG and 2 others like this.
    08-14-2012 09:35 AM
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