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08-29-2012 08:47 PM
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  1. Dave Blake's Avatar
    You are just trolling if you are suggesting that the the iPhone and the iPad were not industry revolutions. They completely changed the market and they did it over and over again. They might not cure cancer but innovative they are.
    Why can't the man speak his mind without you calling him a troll. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it up. We can debate the points in a civil manned without the name calling.
    Reflexx likes this.
    08-27-2012 06:46 PM
  2. MrBurrrns's Avatar
    Why can't the man speak his mind without you calling him a troll. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it up. We can debate the points in a civil manned without the name calling.
    I think we only need to look at the latest Apple vs Samsung trial if we need some supporting evidence.

    Regardless, we are all reasonable adults here. Let's not get down to the level of ignorance by downplaying the importance of Apple. For heaven's sake, there would be no Windows Phone 7 if it wasn't for iOS and Apple. They have revolutionized the smartphone market and I don't think anybody in their right mind can deny that.
    08-27-2012 06:57 PM
  3. Dave Blake's Avatar
    Let's not get down to the level of ignorance by downplaying the importance of Apple.
    Why does this need to be part of what is otherwise an intelligent and helpfully post?
    08-27-2012 07:07 PM
  4. MrBurrrns's Avatar
    Why does this need to be part of what is otherwise an intelligent and helpfully post?
    I don't understand. I pointed out the fact, that Apple has been the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution. They created the modern smartphone as we know it today. They are a part of the phone industry history just as much as Windows Mobile or Nokia.

    It helps nobody if we allow hate and ignorance - and that is exactly what the first post I reacted to propagated. To allow to hate on Apple, to take away from their contribution is just blind ignorance.

    If we want to have a healthy discussion we need to respect the facts. Blind fanboyism doesn't help anybody. You might think my posts are ignorant - they are not, they are provoked by ignorance. I am from Europe, so I might not be so great with the politically correct. But I very much do respect an opinion - if it comes from an honest and profound place. The truth might hurt, but it's never wrong.

    Let's not be a bunch of puppies.
    08-27-2012 07:39 PM
  5. Dave Blake's Avatar
    I don't understand. I pointed out the fact, that Apple has been the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution. They created the modern smartphone as we know it today. They are a part of the phone industry history just as much as Windows Mobile or Nokia.

    It helps nobody if we allow hate and ignorance - and that is exactly what the first post I reacted to propagated. To allow to hate on Apple, to take away from their contribution is just blind ignorance.

    If we want to have a healthy discussion we need to respect the facts. Blind fanboyism doesn't help anybody. You might think my posts are ignorant - they are not, they are provoked by ignorance. I am from Europe, so I might not be so great with the politically correct. But I very much do respect an opinion - if it comes from an honest and profound place. The truth might hurt, but it's never wrong.

    Let's not be a bunch of puppies.
    You are correct you just don't understand. Please do not try to bypass the curse filter it is against forum rules.
    08-27-2012 07:53 PM
  6. MrBurrrns's Avatar
    And to post something on topic: I don't think the Apple win is good for WP. Even Stephen Elop said that this is a war of ecosystems. And this does nothing to improve the ecosystem of WP.

    More so, Apple and Microsoft might have cross licensing agreements in place and play nice right now, but should the day ever come where WP is a danger to iOS you can be damn sure they certainly will explore every options they have to fight it. Litigation will be one of them and with their patents and cases bolstered by trials like this it will only make it harder for Microsoft to fight them. So no, a stronger Apple will do no good for Microsoft.
    08-27-2012 07:57 PM
  7. Reflexx's Avatar
    It helps that MS and Nokia are BFFs.

    Nokia's patent portfolio is powerful. MS's isn't too shabby either. Especially when it comes to computing in general. And we all know that the line between mobile phones and full computers is blurring.

    I really don't think Apple would want to pick that fight.
    08-27-2012 09:18 PM
  8. palandri's Avatar
    I don't understand. I pointed out the fact, that Apple has been the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution. They created the modern smartphone as we know it today...
    Here's the 1st problem. Your statement is subjective. That's your opinion. If you ask me, I would point out Palm as being, "the absolutely decisive part in the smartphone revolution", but I am not going to waste my time by getting into a ******* contest with you on it.

    ...It helps nobody if we allow hate and ignorance - and that is exactly what the first post I reacted to propagated. To allow to hate on Apple, to take away from their contribution is just blind ignorance.

    If we want to have a healthy discussion we need to respect the facts. Blind fanboyism doesn't help anybody. You might think my posts are ignorant - they are not, they are provoked by ignorance. I am from Europe, so I might not be so great with the politically correct. But I very much do respect an opinion - if it comes from an honest and profound place. The truth might hurt, but it's never wrong.

    Let's not be a bunch of puppies.
    Here's the 2nd problem, this is how you want the forum ran. Your opinion on, "hate, ignorance and fanboyism" is once again subjective. You want the forum ran on the rules according to MrBurrrns. It's this simple, it's not your forum or your rules.
    Last edited by palandri; 08-27-2012 at 11:03 PM.
    threed61, mprice86 and Dave Blake like this.
    08-27-2012 10:14 PM
  9. mprice86's Avatar
    Until a few months ago I wouldn't have cared either way who "won" this case; I put it in quotes to illustrate that there really is no winner in a case like this. It makes Samsung look stupid and it makes Apple look like a tantrum throwing child... but I digress.

    I didn't care either way until I actually read some of the stuff that Apple had patented, like a rectangular phone with equally rounded edges on all corners and straight edges. Bezels of equal height at the top and bottom of the screen, with a centrally placed "home" button.

    I don't like Samsung any more than I did before (which was not at all), but idiotic patents like that have really lowered my opinion of Apple, which is impressive because I already had nothing but contempt for them.

    What they've done is patent the design for the front of 90% of smartphones and all they have to do is wait for a phone that looks similar to get popular and then slap the manufacturer with a lawsuit.

    This case, and anything else like it should have been laughed out of court. By all means, patent an original idea, a new function; but don't take out a patent on something just because no one else has. It might be good business, but it makes your company look like a bunch of ****s.

    EDIT:

    To actually make a point about the OP, no, I don't think it was good for Microsoft, or the technology industry as a whole. Cases like this set a dangerous precedent and I expect that we'll see a lot more cases like this in future.

    I don't know how well protected Microsoft are, I would have to assume reasonably well, but unless they're willing to lower themselves to the same level that Apple are fighting at then they haven't a hope of winning. All it's going to take is Apple getting a patent on something like launching an OS or other software from a mechanical or non-mechanical storage device and that's the ball game.
    Last edited by mprice86; 08-28-2012 at 07:50 AM.
    threed61 likes this.
    08-28-2012 07:41 AM
  10. Gungzwei's Avatar
    Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nokia, etc. have all been important players in the smartphone arena. They all have built off of the same ideas, so the court cases seem a lot like dogs marking the same fire hydrant.

    I think the real issue is that the Patent office will issue a patent for ANYTHING. Then let companies battle it out in court. You could submit a patent for round rubber things that allow an automobile to roll smoothly over the ground and probably get issued a patent.

    Groklaw.net does an amazing job of going through technology related court cases and boiling it down to what it means.
    I started following them when SCO sued IBM for $3 billion because "SCO owned UNIX"
    08-28-2012 11:02 AM
  11. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Yes, I think it will.

    Generally it sent a message that blatant copying by crapdroid OEM's won't be tolerated. Samsung needed a good smack in the mouth and they got it. They knew damn well what they were doing with their horrible iOS knock-off joke of a UI "touch whiz". Even the name is pathetic, just like all the dumb names they come up with for their phones. Tacky phones with tacky names and a tacky ripped off UI for people with no taste.

    Windows Phone is an original product that proves you don't need to mimic the iPhone at all to make a great smartphone. I think the verdict might make Windows Phone just a little more attractive to OEM's, I also think if Apple successfully blocks some Samsung devices from the market, that could help sell a few Windows Phones too.

    I don't make it a secret that I think Android is a clusterfawk of an OS and I'm delighted to see absolutely anything that is a set back to it, however small.
    08-28-2012 02:10 PM
  12. dtristan111's Avatar
    This blog is quite good as well:
    FOSS Patents
    08-28-2012 05:04 PM
  13. HeyCori's Avatar
    DailyTech has a decent write-up about the ruling and how much it cost Samsung.

    DailyTech - "Appleflation": Apple's Anti-Android Win Could Limit Consumer Choice
    palandri likes this.
    08-28-2012 05:26 PM
  14. palandri's Avatar
    DailyTech has a decent write-up about the ruling and how much it cost Samsung.

    DailyTech - "Appleflation": Apple's Anti-Android Win Could Limit Consumer Choice
    Glad you found that. It's another article that says:

    Apple's next move will be to push for speedy product bans. It will also likely seek to pressure the U.S. International Trade Commission to ban the Galaxy S III, not involved in the case, pointing that it has similar features as Samsung's infringing lineup (e.g. pinch to zoom). If Apple can ban the Galaxy S III, it may be able to achieve the unthinkable -- secure a complete ban on the products of America's current top smartphone seller.
    08-28-2012 05:38 PM
  15. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    I know I've said that I think this move will hurt Android and help Windows Phone, but I don't expect this to result in product bans ... at least, not anytime soon. Samsung has the right to appeals, and there's plenty of things from the original trial that Samsung can use to defend itself (like the jury ignoring a good portion of evidence, referenced earlier in this thread).

    It should have Android OEM's considering fallback plans though, and they should definitely be talking with Microsoft... but let's not assume that anything catastrophic is going to happen anytime soon. Besides, an appeals court is more likely to force additional fines than ban the product sales... a court isn't going to destroy a major economic industry on a whim.
    08-28-2012 07:29 PM
  16. threed61's Avatar
    An appeal isn't a redo of the trial. Samsung lost, and there is very little in the verdict for them to appeal. It will be up to Google or one of the other Android OEMs to challenge the validity of Apple's patents, which is what Sammy should have been doing in the trial. Right now they should be suing their legal team for incompetence.
    08-28-2012 08:17 PM
  17. dtristan111's Avatar
    Well if Apple leaves their lawsuits against Android with just this one against Samsung and lets be honest, Samsung really did try to copy Apple, then the future for Android is quite bright. Otherwise we could see the rise of some other OS, but its not necessarily WP.



    But Samsung isn't the only one copying... LG Prada from 2006 and iPhone4(s).

    08-29-2012 11:54 AM
  18. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    Amusing graphic (and I've seen it before), but there have been just as many graphics showing that plenty of "round-edged quadrilaterals" existed before the iPhone was even imagined, so if nothing they all serve to prove that Apple's patents are so general, so vague, so insignificant that they're invalid.

    Oh, and I particularly love the comparison of the USB cable... because, you know, Apple clearly owns the design rights for USB cables and power adapters, lol. Also, the packaging is probably more of a standard from the carrier than the OEM...
    palandri likes this.
    08-29-2012 12:17 PM
  19. palandri's Avatar
    I went to Best Buy. First I looked at the iPhone and then I looked at the Samsung Galaxy S3. They were identical. I couldn't tell which was which. :lol:
    08-29-2012 12:25 PM
  20. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    I went to Best Buy. First I looked at the iPhone and then I looked at the Samsung Galaxy S3. They were identical. I couldn't tell which was which. :lol:
    Palandri, that's because all non-Windows Phones look alike... they're like foreigners, haven't you heard?
    08-29-2012 02:39 PM
  21. palandri's Avatar
    Palandri, that's because all non-Windows Phones look alike... they're like foreigners, haven't you heard?
    It's us that look alike. You can find me at the rock concert. I'll be wearing jeans and a T-shirt, so I should be easy to pick out of the crowd. :D
    08-29-2012 02:47 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I think we only need to look at the latest Apple vs Samsung trial if we need some supporting evidence.

    Regardless, we are all reasonable adults here. Let's not get down to the level of ignorance by downplaying the importance of Apple. For heaven's sake, there would be no Windows Phone 7 if it wasn't for iOS and Apple. They have revolutionized the smartphone market and I don't think anybody in their right mind can deny that.
    Uh, excuse me? No WP7 without iOS or Android. Your history of smartphones is out of bounds. The correct statement should be: there would be no iOS or Android without Palm OS or Windows Mobile. Google the Treo 170 or PocketPC 2000 and you may get an idea of where smartphones came from. For all its "goodness", when the first iPhone launched it was EDGE only and it couldn't perform a basic function such as copy & paste. Not a very smart phone when you consider that the Cingular 8125 could run circles around the iPhone except it had a resistive 2.8" screen which wasn't "sexy".
    08-29-2012 08:47 PM
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