09-03-2012 02:53 PM
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  1. Reflexx's Avatar
    If an app is developed by a third party, but it is paid for by Nokia, doesn't that make it Nokia's app?

    As for the OS allowing it... Why wouldn't it?

    Would people really rather have these apps not come to WP at all? It seems like a fact that people who are complaining are conveniently forgetting.
    09-02-2012 01:13 AM
  2. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    No no no, my problem was never with Nokia. Its more of just a question of how the OS allows them to do it. I mean if it's open for exploitation then sure by all means. But apps like ESPN aren't Nokia. That's ESPN. So it's a wonder of how MS lets it happen. Simply that MS wants Nokia to succeed and bring WP up on the world. Which is ok.
    How is it not open for exploitation? MS isn't stopping businesses from acting like businesses. I'm not understanding your viewpoint.

    This act of Nokia and MS allowing exclusive apps is just business playing out. Samsung and HTC could've equally courted ESPN, but they didn't. Also so far MS hasn't issued contrary terms under the use of the marketplace disallowing such actions. If two third parties want to contract and enter into a business transaction, what does it matter to MS? So long as there isn't a violation of their terms of use for the marketplace, I don't see a problem.

    As for the issue about exclusive apps turning new users off, I don't see how it's that big of a deal. There's more that goes into the decision of buying a smartphone. If that customer decides to go with Android or iOS it probably goes beyond the fact that the app wasn't readily available to other WP devices.
    aubreyq likes this.
    09-02-2012 05:19 AM
  3. DungMasterFang's Avatar
    Blah, Give Samsung and HTC the same amount of money they give Nokia. Nokia playing on house money. Which is bull****.

    I have a Nokia Lumia 900, but I understand where you coming from.
    Finally someone who gets it and is not all over the Nokia stick. I love Nokia for what they are trying to do, but all in all MS simply wants people to use their OS. And Nokia isn't paying for those app. MS basically is writing them check to push the OS.
    You people act like Nokia is some broke *** company while in reality they have 11.4 billion dollars in gross cash and 5.3 billion dollars in net cash and thats after forking out over 1 billion dollars in dividents. MS is not paying their bills. MS is paying them money because of Nokia patents, their maps(best in the industry), their OS developement(yes, Nokia played a part developing WP8), their strong position in the mobile market(90 million mobile devices sold per quarter) etc.

    Nokia and Microsoft Sign Definitive Agreement Ahead of Schedule

    1. A combination of complementary assets, which make the partnership truly unique, including:

    Nokia to deliver mapping, navigation, and certain location-based services to the Windows Phone ecosystem. Nokia will build innovation on top of the Windows Phone platform in areas such as imaging, while contributing expertise on hardware design and language support, and helping to drive the development of the Windows Phone platform. Microsoft will provide Bing search services across the Nokia device portfolio as well as contributing strength in productivity, advertising, gaming, social media and a variety of other services. The combination of navigation with advertising and search will enable better monetization of Nokia’s navigation assets and completely new forms of advertising revenue.

    Joint developer outreach and application sourcing, to support the creation of new local and global applications, including making Windows Phone developer registration free for all Nokia developers.

    Opening a new Nokia-branded global application store that leverages the Windows Marketplace infrastructure. Developers will be able to publish and distribute applications through a single developer portal to hundreds of millions of consumers that use Windows Phone, Symbian and Series 40 devices.

    Contribution of Nokia’s expertise in operator billing to ensure participants in the Windows Phone ecosystem can take advantage of Nokia’s billing agreements with 112 operators in 36 markets.

    2. Microsoft will receive a running royalty from Nokia for the Windows Phone platform, starting when the first Nokia products incorporating Windows Phone ship. The royalty payments are competitive and reflect the large volumes that Nokia expects to ship, as well as a variety of other considerations related to engineering work to which both companies are committed. Microsoft delivering the Windows Phone platform to Nokia will enable Nokia to significantly reduce operating expenses.

    3. In recognition of the unique nature of Nokia’s agreement with Microsoft and the contributions that Nokia is providing, Nokia will receive payments measured in the billions of dollars.

    4. An agreement that recognizes the value of intellectual property and puts in place mechanisms for exchanging rights to intellectual property. Nokia will receive substantial payments under the agreement.
    cckgz4 and Reflexx like this.
    09-02-2012 05:24 AM
  4. DungMasterFang's Avatar
    To all the folks saying "but,but Nokia is using MS money to pay the developers so it's unfair" why aren't you saying "but Nokia is using Apple's money" since you know Apple pays Nokia roughly a billion dollars per year. It's not MS money, it's not Apple money, and it's not the consumers money. It's Nokia's money.

    Regardless of the recent smartphone sales, Nokia is the top dog in the industry. If you want to be in the game you need to pay Nokia and rightfully so.

    World's top R&D spenders:

    1. Roche Holding
    2. Microsoft
    3. Nokia
    4. Toyota
    5. Pfizer
    5-10 Pharmaceutical companies

    Nokia spends 3 times more in R&D than an average rival. Nokia isn't just giving huge contributions to WP, they give and have given huge contributions to the industry that they basically created.
    cckgz4 and Reflexx like this.
    09-02-2012 06:00 AM
  5. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    To all the folks saying "but,but Nokia is using MS money to pay the developers so it's unfair" why aren't you saying "but Nokia is using Apple's money" since you know Apple pays Nokia roughly a billion dollars per year. It's not MS money, it's not Apple money, and it's not the consumers money. It's Nokia's money.

    Regardless of the recent smartphone sales, Nokia is the top dog in the industry. If you want to be in the game you need to pay Nokia and rightfully so.

    World's top R&D spenders:

    1. Roche Holding
    2. Microsoft
    3. Nokia
    4. Toyota
    5. Pfizer
    5-10 Pharmaceutical companies

    Nokia spends 3 times more in R&D than an average rival. Nokia isn't just giving huge contributions to WP, they give and have given huge contributions to the industry that they basically created.
    Source? - not that I'm challenging what you said, but would be lovely to quote source next time I use this ;)
    09-02-2012 07:34 AM
  6. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    On Android, this exists as well. Samsung, HTC and others have their own apps.

    My galaxy s3 has "Samsung Apps". Same with HTC.

    Click to view quoted image


    Click to view quoted image
    I think this is different to what OP wants to say. He is fine with Nokia Drive and Nokia Maps exclusive to Nokia. But not when ESPN or say Instagram goes exclusive for Nokia. Because they are 3rd party. So under those Samsung apps splashscreen do you find non-Samsung 3rd party apps too? If so, what for example?

    PS: I totally agree with this 3rd and 5th party exclusivity given to Nokia, because Nokia is in exclusive agreement with MSFT OS whereas others aren't. That makes Nokia the special one with business perspective and romance perspective.
    09-02-2012 07:42 AM
  7. Duvi's Avatar
    I think this is different to what OP wants to say. He is fine with Nokia Drive and Nokia Maps exclusive to Nokia. But not when ESPN or say Instagram goes exclusive for Nokia. Because they are 3rd party. So under those Samsung apps splashscreen do you find non-Samsung 3rd party apps too? If so, what for example?

    PS: I totally agree with this 3rd and 5th party exclusivity given to Nokia, because Nokia is in exclusive agreement with MSFT OS whereas others aren't. That makes Nokia the special one with business perspective and romance perspective.
    I know that's what he was saying. The apps in the Samsung & HTC app stores aren't all made by the respective manufacturers. They help fund development, so they get it exclusive to them.

    So if Nokia is funding Instagram/FaceBook to have an exclusive IG app, why would they fund it for another manufacturer? If you think about it, although it's Android vs. iOS vs. WP, it is still Samsung vs. Nokia vs. HTC vs. other manufacturers. They need an edge.
    Reflexx likes this.
    09-02-2012 11:32 AM
  8. Duvi's Avatar
    It's not just the different OEMs either (and not just Windows Phone and Android). The carriers also restrict different apps or have exclusive apps too.

    AT&T BlackBerry users had to use a 3rd-party app to use BlackBerry Maps, since AT&T wanted people to subscribe to Telenav for $10/month.

    VZW disabled GPS on BlackBerry unless a customer used Telenav.

    BlackBerry users in the US cannot get Skype unless they have VZW as their carrier.
    Yup. I used to beta test apps for AT&T through their beta program. It would be stupid if they funded the development, but allowed non-AT&T users access to it.
    09-02-2012 11:34 AM
  9. Duvi's Avatar
    Source? - not that I'm challenging what you said, but would be lovely to quote source next time I use this ;)
    That's actually from 2010. 2012 is a little different.

    2010 - R&D spending: Here are the Top 10 firms Not your average aspiring journalist

    2012 - The world's biggest R&D spenders - FierceBiotech

    Top R&D budgets
    1. Pfizer: $9.4 billion
    2. Roche: $9.2 billion
    3. Merck: $8.12 billion
    4. Novartis: $8.08 billion
    5. Johnson & Johnson: $6.84 billion
    6. GlaxoSmithKline: $6.09 billion
    7. Sanofi-Aventis: $5.94 billion
    8. AstraZeneca: $5.3 billion
    9. Eli Lilly: $4.88 billion
    10. Bristol-Myers Squibb: $3.56 billion
    Tied for 10th. Takeda Pharmaceutical: $3.5 billion
    09-02-2012 11:35 AM
  10. DungMasterFang's Avatar
    That's actually from 2010. 2012 is a little different.

    2010 - R&D spending: Here are the Top 10 firms Not your average aspiring journalist

    2012 - The world's biggest R&D spenders - FierceBiotech

    Top R&D budgets
    1. Pfizer: $9.4 billion
    2. Roche: $9.2 billion
    3. Merck: $8.12 billion
    4. Novartis: $8.08 billion
    5. Johnson & Johnson: $6.84 billion
    6. GlaxoSmithKline: $6.09 billion
    7. Sanofi-Aventis: $5.94 billion
    8. AstraZeneca: $5.3 billion
    9. Eli Lilly: $4.88 billion
    10. Bristol-Myers Squibb: $3.56 billion
    Tied for 10th. Takeda Pharmaceutical: $3.5 billion

    I hope you realize that that list you just posted is just for pharmaceutical companies.
    09-02-2012 11:40 AM
  11. eric12341's Avatar
    Last Warning about the personal insults. Next one the thread is closed and infractions will be handed out.
    09-02-2012 12:13 PM
  12. cp2_4eva's Avatar
    So, what I'm gathering from all these statements is at this time it would be in our best interests to all buy Nokia phones because Nokia and MS are basically tight with each other. That is if we want the apps first. And that is until the other OEMs start to focus more on WP as well. No matter how flaky Nokia WiFi connections are or even if they decide not to grace us with pureview or at least a better camera sensor. In the other OS at this time there aren't many 3rd party apps that aren't available to all phones using Android. I understand that other phones will eventually get those apps, but that might be hurting those customers that ate in that store to buy a phone and can't wait to get it, so they get an Android or iPhone to get those apps.

    Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express
    09-02-2012 12:32 PM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    So, what I'm gathering from all these statements is at this time it would be in our best interests to all buy Nokia phones because Nokia and MS are basically tight with each other. That is if we want the apps first. And that is until the other OEMs start to focus more on WP as well. No matter how flaky Nokia WiFi connections are or even if they decide not to grace us with pureview or at least a better camera sensor. In the other OS at this time there aren't many 3rd party apps that aren't available to all phones using Android. I understand that other phones will eventually get those apps, but that might be hurting those customers that ate in that store to buy a phone and can't wait to get it, so they get an Android or iPhone to get those apps.

    Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express
    Not at all.

    If you like another OEM's product better l, then get it. Then be patient and wait for Nokia's exclusivity period to end on a few of the apps you want. And recognize that those apps wouldn't be available to you at all if Nokia didn't pay for them to be developed for WP.

    If the particular apps you want are Nokia exclusive, and you MUST have them NOW, then get a Nokia.

    Nobody is forcing your choice. It's up to YOU to weigh the pros and cons of the choices you choose to make.
    GoodThings2Life likes this.
    09-02-2012 01:26 PM
  14. Duvi's Avatar
    I hope you realize that that list you just posted is just for pharmaceutical companies.
    I'll check it out when I get home. I probably posted the wrong link. The 2010 list is correct though.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    09-02-2012 03:31 PM
  15. Duvi's Avatar
    So, what I'm gathering from all these statements is at this time it would be in our best interests to all buy Nokia phones because Nokia and MS are basically tight with each other. That is if we want the apps first. And that is until the other OEMs start to focus more on WP as well. No matter how flaky Nokia WiFi connections are or even if they decide not to grace us with pureview or at least a better camera sensor. In the other OS at this time there aren't many 3rd party apps that aren't available to all phones using Android. I understand that other phones will eventually get those apps, but that might be hurting those customers that ate in that store to buy a phone and can't wait to get it, so they get an Android or iPhone to get those apps.

    Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express
    What should have been gathered is that you have a choice. If the exclusive nokia apps mean more than what the other manufacturers have to offer, then go with Nokia. If not, go with the others.

    I like the looks of the Titan II, but I made a choice to avoid HTC at all costs. So I decided to stay with samsung and nokia when it comes to WP8.



    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    GoodThings2Life and Reflexx like this.
    09-02-2012 04:01 PM
  16. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    ...so they get an Android or iPhone to get those apps...
    Ah, so we get another piece of the argument now. We're beyond the fairness argument, and we want to talk about how to entice users...

    Here's a simple reality... I have users at work that I buy/recommend smartphones to use for work/personal use. My CEO, CFO, two COO's, and several others. The CFO has an iPhone, but everyone else has some Android phone... typically HTC EVO's or Samsung Galaxy (of some variation). My CEO has had 7 different phones in the past three years. I typically can push them in the direction I want them to go based on what work-related function they want, but Windows Phone has been difficult because of the hype of the other platforms... My CEO is constantly saying he wants an iPhone. I get him one, and he ALWAYS hates it. Every. Single. Time. It's too small for a man of 6' 7" tall, but he hears about it from his rich friends, so he is constantly curious. Then he goes back to Android. I showed him my Titan, and he loved the big screen but said, "Can I get that in Android? I don't want to relearn something." I got his wife the Sprint Arrive, and she loved it... the only phone she's had more than 6 months... but she finally went iPhone too... because her kids talked her into it. She doesn't like it, "it's too complicated... I don't use all this stuff," but she keeps it. I can't explain it.

    If I ask them what they use on their phone, aside from texting and email and other built-in functions, only a couple of them have even bothered to look at the whole "app scene". They use a few fantasy sport apps and maybe some novelty app or two, but most of them ditch apps as fast as they download them after the gimmick wears out, and more common, they've NEVER used an app that was preinstalled on their phone. In fact, my CEO once asked, "what's that Sprint TV crap? How do I get rid of that?" I don't know a single person that actually uses Siri except for hands-free in the car, and the CEO's son actually said, "it's creepy, but I like it for hands free when I'm driving."

    I bet that if we could poll every smartphone user on earth, I bet a majority would say the same, and I believe that because companies like Apple, Google, and Microsoft do this research to decide what to bundle in the platforms. Why do you think they all include email and mapping programs and leave the rest to users?

    Apps are a fad... available for the whims of the trendy and the bored. Why do you think people are so easily enticed by free and "cheap" $1 apps? They're cute, fun, whimsical, and after a while people move on. By the time Instagram comes to Windows Phone, nearly no one will care about it anymore. It exists because neither Facebook nor Twitter make it easy to post pics from other devices... but it's super easy on Windows Phone. If Microsoft or OEMs put in some filters natively, we wouldn't need it.

    Picking a platform is based exclusively on trendiness... iPhone was flashy and trendy and caught on fast, but it didn't have a third-party app to speak of for the first year! Android picked up easily too, because it wasn't Apple... and it took a while to grow the marketplace. But everywhere you looked, there was a commercial for Apple or "Droid".

    Windows Phone needs that trendy factor, and apps alone aren't going to cut it. You know why Nokia has outsold Samsung on Windows Phone? It's not the exclusive apps... it's the marketing. Nokia has been out there pushing. They're struggling financially, but they're doing what it takes... and people are noticing. If Samsung and HTC want to join the fun, bring it on! For now, though, it's all Nokia.
    cckgz4 and aubreyq like this.
    09-02-2012 05:06 PM
  17. Squatting Hen's Avatar
    Let me jump back in and address both sides of the issue for a minute, because I have been thinking about this more...

    Unfair Group -- Are you upset because it's Nokia doing this or because Microsoft allows it? It matters, because if you're only upset about Nokia but you would tolerate it from Samsung or HTC or I dunno... LG... then frankly, you're a hypocrite with a double standard, and you're just whining about an OEM you don't like. If you're against Microsoft allowing it, I can at least give you some credit for the argument, because I think you're right, and here's why...

    Fair Group -- If we allow every OEM to do this, we will be creating fragmentation in the platform, and we can just look at Android to see how chaotic that can be. I want the ESPN app, so I have to buy Nokia, but I also want Chase Banking, and crap-- I can only get that on Samsung. Worse, what happens when the carriers start doing this... Suddenly, I can only get it on Samsung IF I'm on AT&T. Hmm, then the argument breaks down.

    But is it such a bad thing? Don't we already have some of this going on? I mean, only AT&T customers have an app that lets us manage all our phone account services, and only HTC customers have the HTC Hub and only Nokia customers get Nokia Drive. These aren't great examples since alternatives exist, BUT suppose they were exclusive apps.

    Android has things like this too... just because an app is listed for a device doesn't mean it works. Some are only compatible with particular versions of Android which is EXTREMELY problematic, some only work with HTC devices or Samsung devices, and what about the difference on every single device (HTC has at least 50 versions of Sense UI now).

    My point is this... if you're making a philosophical argument against fragmentation and wanting to promote the platform to new customers, kudos and thank you... but if you're just whining about Nokia, the moderators might as well lock this thread now, because we're all wasting our time. And likewise, if we're going to argue that it's fair for OEMs to do this, then we have to be OK with the consequences of fragmentation and buggy apps. I don't want to deal with Force Close situations... I left Android because of that crap.

    At the end of the day, though, Nokia has a special relationship with Microsoft that has them working together above and beyond, and it's done more to promote the platform than any of the other OEM. That makes it a good thing... as long as it's limited.
    This is exactly what I have been saying in my posts here. People don't seem to get that. As soon as they see the words Nokia, defense arises. It is just not a good example to set. As I also stated, I would be upset if other OEM's started following Nokia in this.
    aubreyq likes this.
    09-02-2012 06:51 PM
  18. mkr10001's Avatar
    Why is it that Nokia has the best exclusive apps that Samsung and HTC can't get? On other OS, if there is an app on the market, then all android users can get it. Not just android users that have a Samsung. I'm talking about apps, not functions. This is stupid. I like my HTC, but the apps that Nokia has exclusively makes me a bit disgruntled. I'd love to have an official ESPN fantasy football app....only Nokia will have it. FML.

    Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express
    Maybe other manufacturers should get off their backsides and make some.

    Clearly nokia are taking WP more seriously than other OEMs....stop your complaining
    09-03-2012 07:35 AM
  19. cp2_4eva's Avatar
    Maybe other manufacturers should get off their backsides and make some.



    Clearly nokia are taking WP more seriously than other OEMs....stop your complaining
    I have a right to voice my opinion. This is a forum. So for you to say stop your complaining without giving some substantial debate material is well, blah. Plus you totally misunderstood my reasoning and what my gripe is. I love how if someone even thinks about down talking Nokia then folks want to flame them.

    Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express
    GoodThings2Life likes this.
    09-03-2012 10:08 AM
  20. crystal_planet's Avatar
    I don't know what dystopian universe some of you come from, but I wasn't assigned a brand at my birth that I'm forced to use until I die. C'mon you guys - we are eating our own here and it isn't pretty.
    GoodThings2Life and aubreyq like this.
    09-03-2012 11:25 AM
  21. Reflexx's Avatar
    What people apparently want is charity.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    09-03-2012 11:43 AM
  22. Squatting Hen's Avatar
    What people apparently want is charity.
    Wow. Completely wrong. At leat some posters here get it. Might as well close and lock this thread.
    09-03-2012 02:39 PM
  23. eric12341's Avatar
    ^ I agree, time to close this before it gets out of hand.
    09-03-2012 02:53 PM
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