09-05-2015 04:18 AM
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  1. Mellifluous's Avatar
    Interesting thread and I thought I'd chip in with my experience, which has been that Nokia will repair handsets with 8.1 installed, although they will reset it to 8.0.

    Last month the power button of my Lumia 520 failed so I dropped it into a Nokia Care centre in the UK under the 2 year manufacturers warranty. They fixed it in a day and when 8.1 came out, I installed it on my 520.

    A week ago, the button failed again and I dropped it back in for repair. I was a bit nervous but a few days later I got the phone back and it's working fine. They had to send off for a part and it looks like they replaced the power "knob" you see when you remove the cover, as there's a bit of solder.

    I think if you deal with Nokia directly they are unlikely to decline to help based on the software you're running. I would imagine their wording is more aimed at jailbreaking/homebrew software where you are using the phone beyond their intention. If 8.1 was a beta release only limited to Microsoft employees and I had downloaded it from a piracy site, I am sure they would refuse cover, but if it is a version that is widely available then it seems unreasonable to withhold support for genuine faults which exist regardless of the 8.1 installed.

    Re the carrier/seller/manufacturer debate, in the UK you can return devices for repair via both seller and manufacturer (at least for Nokia and Apple). Which you go to can depend on the issue. If it's a software issue, then going to Carphone Warehouse (a Best Buy type place for phones) can solve the issue faster as they can do software reinstallations there. If it's a hardware issue, it is quicker dealing directly with Nokia or Apple. For Nokia, shops like CPW will be sending the devices back to Nokia anyway. With Apple, their policy is replace on the spot so again, much quicker. It is only advantageous to go through the shop if you want to fish for a refund if the issue becomes protracted - e.g. after sending my 710 back three times via CPW, I negotiated a full refund.
    hopmedic likes this.
    04-29-2014 01:07 PM
  2. Glad Bernard's Avatar
    A week back the headphone (3.5mm) socket on my six month old 520 (WP 8.1 DP installed) was not working. I dropped the phone at my local Nokia Care Centre (India) and it was repaired within the day under warranty. No questions asked !
    hopmedic likes this.
    04-29-2014 04:07 PM
  3. Thelosouvlakia's Avatar
    I'm wondering how other OEMs handle guarantees. No words from Samsung or HTC or Huawei yet?
    04-30-2014 03:38 PM
  4. hopmedic's Avatar
    Samsung
    It's pretty much the same. They cover defects in manufacturing and workmanship, and they don't cover anything that is caused by something they didn't provide. They use a lot of words to say what is essentially this.

    You see the words "resulting from" used many times in the "not covered" part of the warranty. That means, for instance, that if you put some software in the phone, and THAT is the CAUSE of the problem, not covered. If you put that same software in the phone, and a problem comes up but is not CAUSED by that software, you're covered. Again, we're talking hardware. These warranties never cover software. And if the problem were software, you could uninstall/reinstall/reflash, whatever it takes, but you could restore the phone to its original condition without having to replace the phone, so there's no need for it to cover software problems. A hardware problem cannot be solved by reinstalling anything. All the warranty covers is hardware.
    05-01-2014 01:14 PM
  5. anon(8657436)'s Avatar
    Samsung
    It's pretty much the same. They cover defects in manufacturing and workmanship, and they don't cover anything that is caused by something they didn't provide. They use a lot of words to say what is essentially this.

    You see the words "resulting from" used many times in the "not covered" part of the warranty. That means, for instance, that if you put some software in the phone, and THAT is the CAUSE of the problem, not covered. If you put that same software in the phone, and a problem comes up but is not CAUSED by that software, you're covered. Again, we're talking hardware. These warranties never cover software. And if the problem were software, you could uninstall/reinstall/reflash, whatever it takes, but you could restore the phone to its original condition without having to replace the phone, so there's no need for it to cover software problems. A hardware problem cannot be solved by reinstalling anything. All the warranty covers is hardware.
    Spot on, warranty is only hardware. Also, if out of your warranty period, you go to them and ask them to reflash your phone, they will do so and the only charge they will make (usually they do it for free) will be service fees that has nothing to do with a cost on their part. Warranty is actually a way to reduce repair costs on your part.
    hopmedic likes this.
    05-02-2014 12:10 AM
  6. S Vaibhav's Avatar
    Thank you for the insight, hopmedic! Now all my doubts are cleared.
    05-02-2014 12:37 AM
  7. slyronit's Avatar
    I live in India. I faced all 3 scenario possible with this

    1. My 925 was on GDR3 with preview for developers and later got Lumia black firmware update. It stopped booting one day, so Nokia fixed it for free. So it doesn't matter if you are currently on a supported OS but have used Preview for developers before.

    2. However, if you take the phone to Nokia care with 8.1 on it already, they refuse to fix anything software related and refuse to fix any hardware under warranty. This happened with my 925 whose vibrator stopped working. I had to pay for the repair and they void my warranty.

    3. My wife's 720 had issues with the earpiece. I flashed her back to Amber using Nokia Product support tool and took it to Nokia and they fixed it as usual.
    05-14-2014 07:00 AM
  8. bionicgt's Avatar
    so does it void it or not?
    05-14-2014 02:53 PM
  9. anon5997296's Avatar
    I think it doesn't do anything to the warranty. It's just upto Nokia whether to refuse to repair your phone or not. I mean it just gives them a reason to charge you for the repair. According to their mood I guess.. :-P
    05-14-2014 03:08 PM
  10. hopmedic's Avatar
    so does it void it or not?
    Did you read the first post?
    sammyboy405 likes this.
    05-15-2014 01:55 PM
  11. bionicgt's Avatar
    Did you read the first post?
    It's way too long, I'm at work.. I just asked if it does or not...
    05-15-2014 02:51 PM
  12. hopmedic's Avatar
    The point is that rather than answer the same question each time someone asks, they get directed to the answer where it was already provided.
    lcw731 likes this.
    05-15-2014 11:05 PM
  13. Coy032's Avatar
    This is a very nice write up. I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly since I recently dropped my phone and the screen shattered. I have Windows 8.1 Preview downloaded on my phone which I got from the Preview for Developers app. From my understanding that does not violate section 4.7 of the booklet because it was released by Microsoft. Since it was given out to the public and can be downloaded by everyone by doing a few simple things I am safe on this issue. Correct? The fact that the Preview says "May be void" makes me nervous, as it seems like it did for others.

    What I am concerned about is Verizon being Verizon and telling me they can't help me. They always use really skewed sentences and never to the point. You said you sent your phone into Nokia, how would I go about doing this? And would they fix my screen? And yes I am still in warranty, barely.
    05-26-2014 12:55 AM
  14. Ashwin P's Avatar
    so does it void it or not?
    Technically, no. As the OP has written, you are on the safe side if you can argue the elements.

    BUT, there is a reason why Microsoft warns you that your OEM/Carrier MAY void your warranty. They are not saying that they would, just that there is a possibility. They are throwing the onus on to the OEM/Carrier.

    Now, Nokia, says "unauthorized software" would void warranty. But they do not explicitly state whether Microsoft provided software is "unauthorized". Strictly speaking, only Nokia provided software should be called "authorized". But then, this is a grey area.

    So at the end you are left at the mercy of the Nokia care center. In places like mine (India) they cause you trouble as long as the bill of repair is low. But for expensive repairs, they try to find ways to deny you warranty. Am not talking about just Nokia, but with all brands/products sold here. Other countries would have a different ethic/culture.

    If it is me, I wouldn't take a chance, and would flash back 8.0 before taking it to repair.
    hopmedic likes this.
    05-27-2014 05:35 AM
  15. hopmedic's Avatar
    This is a very nice write up. I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly since I recently dropped my phone and the screen shattered. I have Windows 8.1 Preview downloaded on my phone which I got from the Preview for Developers app. From my understanding that does not violate section 4.7 of the booklet because it was released by Microsoft. Since it was given out to the public and can be downloaded by everyone by doing a few simple things I am safe on this issue. Correct? The fact that the Preview says "May be void" makes me nervous, as it seems like it did for others.

    What I am concerned about is Verizon being Verizon and telling me they can't help me. They always use really skewed sentences and never to the point. You said you sent your phone into Nokia, how would I go about doing this? And would they fix my screen? And yes I am still in warranty, barely.
    Since the problem is a broken screen, the warranty is irrelevant here. The warranty does not cover:
    6. Defects or damage caused by: (a) misuse, (no need to go any farther)
    The insurance that you have through Verizon (I'm assuming you have it, but you may not - the monthly charge for insurance) is not a warranty, but is insurance. I do not know the details of that insurance, but it is not through Verizon. I'm thinking it might be Assurant, but not positive. If the insurance covers damage (I think it does, but I haven't looked it up), then you're fine. Pay the deductible and get the phone replaced (it will be a refurbished phone). So you're not going to be covered by the OEM warranty, but the damage insurance shouldn't have anything to do with whether you've upgraded the phone or not. Again, though, I haven't read their T&C.
    05-27-2014 01:27 PM
  16. anony_mouse's Avatar
    The PDP is "authorized" simply because it is not an unauthorized hack. It is published by Microsoft, the creator of the OS.
    Speaking as someone who is not a lawyer, and has no direct experience of warranties, but does regularly deal with legal issues in the course of my job - I don't find that argument convincing.

    The fact that software comes from Microsoft doesn't automatically make it authorised by Nokia, in my interpretation. Furthermore, the licence to the software (from Microsoft) specifically says that it may cause irreparable harm to your phone, and obviously this is more likely with preview software than a finished, tested (by Nokia) product.

    Nokia may not be able to get out of repairs to faults clearly not caused by the software (e.g. broken power button), but if this software e.g. fried the processor by running it too hot, I don't believe Nokia would have any liability under the warranty. Of course, they might still choose to offer a repair for goodwill reasons.

    In your view, what software would count as authorised, and what as unauthorised?

    Btw, I am ignoring the point that Microsoft now own Nokia's phone business, which might or might not change things.
    06-14-2014 12:51 PM
  17. hopmedic's Avatar
    Speaking as someone who is not a lawyer, and has no direct experience of warranties, but does regularly deal with legal issues in the course of my job - I don't find that argument convincing.

    The fact that software comes from Microsoft doesn't automatically make it authorised by Nokia, in my interpretation. Furthermore, the licence to the software (from Microsoft) specifically says that it may cause irreparable harm to your phone, and obviously this is more likely with preview software than a finished, tested (by Nokia) product.

    Nokia may not be able to get out of repairs to faults clearly not caused by the software (e.g. broken power button), but if this software e.g. fried the processor by running it too hot, I don't believe Nokia would have any liability under the warranty. Of course, they might still choose to offer a repair for goodwill reasons.

    In your view, what software would count as authorised, and what as unauthorised?

    Btw, I am ignoring the point that Microsoft now own Nokia's phone business, which might or might not change things.
    Microsoft's disclaimer is simply the by-product of too many lawyers in America. And since Nokia phones are now Microsoft phones, it doesn't matter - the update came through authorized channels, so how can it be unauthorized?

    That without going into the fact that I have experience with managing warranties, and I have experience replacing my Nokia phone under warranty while running a preview, even before Microsoft acquired Nokia's devices and services.
    06-16-2014 08:23 PM
  18. Kaushik Dash's Avatar
    http://forums.windowscentral.com/gen...omer-care.html

    So after contact Nokia through online chat. They decided to cancel my warranty cause I was running Dev Preview. I showed the guy this topic but he came up with Dev Preview document that says "It MAY void your warranty." I told them that article what 4.7 says but they kept saying that so I gave up.

    I am gonna try to roll back to 8.0 and have my device fixed. The problem is getting ridiculous.
    07-02-2014 03:42 AM
  19. dudeskee1325's Avatar
    Yes. I just did that now. I'm not saying 100% it works for everyone, but it worked for me. Some people in the forums claim to have bricked their phones. Well, I don't know what they did to get that, but as for me, it works perfectly.
    Are you able to go from dev preview to the final product once the OTA update goes out?
    07-09-2014 02:21 AM
  20. hopmedic's Avatar
    Are you able to go from dev preview to the final product once the OTA update goes out?
    When the final product comes out, people will be upgrading to what you have, not the other way around. You'll already have it. You will get the firmware updates like Lumia Cyan (assuming you have a Lumia) which you don't already have, however.
    07-10-2014 10:22 PM
  21. Al4video's Avatar
    Funny thing I went to the Microsoft store last week and purchased a screen protector for my 1520. I had it installed there . They are very nice about that and no charge. So a week later it developed some slight air streaks under it, so yesterday I brought it in to see what they could do about it. The young lady that was helping me took a look at my phone and the first thing she noticed was Cortana on my home screen. And she instantly said "oh we can't do anything with phones with dev preview installed".
    I really laughed out loud as I was wondering what does that have to do with a screen protector. So I didn't get angry I just jokingly asked her if the screen protector would be easier to come off if I reverted back to 8.0 and that I would be willing to do that just for her.
    At that moment she realized the error of her ways and that she was probably reciting a script too closely.
    So she called another "expert" over and he took one look and got another screen protector off the rack and very pleasantly replaced it at no charge.
    That was a real funny incident but I have to say my experiences in the Microsoft Store have been nothing but stellar.
    Very different then the head up your *** experiences I used to have with the Apple "genuises".
    07-12-2014 10:57 AM
  22. Paul Verizzo's Avatar
    I know this is an old post, but here is what I've done on three Nokia 925's: Reset to latest official SW via Nokia Updater before sending it in. The latest official SW as of this date, FYI, is the official TMO 925 8.1 Update.
    11-15-2014 08:42 AM
  23. Deepak's Avatar
    Here, on the first page it's stated that Warranty is not applicable for - 1.) USER GUIDES.

    I want to get a replacement for my Lumia 830 arrived just 3 days ago because it's screen has popped-out from the top side (it was like that already). I have all the components of the original packaging box including their protective plastic bags.

    What I don't have is, the included User Guides and the Wireless charging pamphlet. I lost them.
    So, will they accept my replacement claim if I don't have all the paper components?

    Please suggest asap. I have already registered my claim.

    Thank you.
    03-07-2015 04:21 AM
  24. mprebich's Avatar
    Warranty. How is it affected? Everyone seems to have a different story. Some say that Nokia reps told them that it's voided if they use PDP (and yes, some have provided documentation of this claim). I have actually had my 928 replaced under warranty while running PDP with GDR3. Did I just get lucky? Who's right and who's wrong?

    Keep in mind that the warranty that I am discussing here is for a US device, and I do not know how this warranty may differ from the warranty in other countries, as laws vary, but I would venture to guess that most of them are materially the same.

    Who am I to say?
    For several years, I worked at one of the largest insurance companies in the world. I worked in a department that managed extended warranties, most of my time dealing specifically with electronics warranties, and a part of my tenure dealing with home warranties. I started out on the phones taking calls from customers just like you, who were calling in with problems with their computers and such, and wanted that problem to be fixed under the warranty. I can tell you from that perspective that my primary job was to minimize expense. If I could find a way to turn down every single claim, my boss would have loved me (more than he did - ). But the warranty is a contract, and it is a contract that goes two ways. There are responsibilities for the user as well as the warranty company. For example, the user has to use his device in a way that is not considered misuse or abuse. The company, in-turn, has a responsibility to repair covered items.

    After one year on the job, I was promoted to Customer Relations. In that position, I only dealt with angry or dissatisfied customers. In other words, I only dealt with customers whom we'd already told their claim was not covered. It was my job to research the reason for the declination, research the reason of the failure, and determine whether we correctly declined the claim or if the declination should be reversed. I had the final say on whether a claim would be paid or not. There was no appeal above me. So I hope from this you can gather that I know very well how to read a warranty and understand what is required of the company.

    Warranty - What is it?
    Now that you know from what experience I'm talking, let's take a look at the warranty. Here it is, photographed from the booklet for my 928.

    First two pages:
    Attachment 63045
    Note the highlighted portion. This tells you what is covered. The main device, the battery, the charger - basically the hardware that comes in the box.

    Next two pages:
    Attachment 63050
    Note the highlighted section - What this warranty does not cover. You should always read this section before trying to make a warranty claim on any device. This is where you will learn what will keep you from getting the warranty repair. Look at section 7, highlighted.

    By installing the Preview for Developers, did you hack or crack? Is it a virus or other malware? Was your access to this service unauthorized? No. Therefore this provision of the contract does not apply. I believe, though, that this is what the low-level customer service types on Twitter and other social media are referring to (if they are referring to anything at all) when they say that the PDP is not covered. They are not reading it with understanding.

    Paragraph 10 I suppose could also be a source of confusion. It says that all the software that comes on the phone is considered Nokia software. That would include the OS, and yes, the Univision app that I always delete first. It says that this software, the OS and all apps that come with it, including upgrades and updates, is not warranted to meet your requirements, run apps you want to run, work with any other software or hardware (That BT headset? Yeah - there's no warranty that it will work with the phone. That's what this means.). (continued on next image)

    Next two pages:
    Attachment 63053
    It also says near the top that they don't warrant that the software included will work (operation uninterrupted, error free, or defects will be corrected or are correctable). So basically, it says that the software on the phone may stop working, may not be fixable, and isn't covered. In other words, they don't cover software under the warranty. Only the hardware is covered. It also says that the software is provided "as-is." In other words, software is not covered. See a theme here?

    Nokia will make their software available for reinstall (latest version - so don't count on older version availability) if there is a software problem that is covered.

    What will void the warranty? Look at the highlighted section at the bottom of page 30, and the top of page 31, items 1 through 4.
    This warranty is not valid if: (paraphrased)
    1. Your product has been opened, modified (this is talking hardware), repaired without Nokia's authorization, or repaired with unauthorized spare parts. Broke your screen and replaced it with one you got from eBay? You no longer have a warranty.
    2. Your product's serial number or IMEI has been removed, erased, defaced, altered, or illegible. I would imagine that these numbers are present somewhere inside even phones without removable batteries (I could be wrong), but they are present in the firmware when you look in settings | about | more info. So you stole a phone (yeah, I know - you found it), and it couldn't be reactivated because the IMEI is bad, so you reflashed it (which is illegal in the US) with a new number, right? No warranty.
    3. Your product was exposed to moisture or extreme thermal or environmental conditions, corrosion or oxidization. You were at Yellowstone and dropped your phone into one of those really pretty hot bath things (I've never been there)? Your warranty is void.
    4. The software your product runs on has been modified. Ah, here's another place where those customer service types are mis-reading. Ok - so technically when you do PDP, you're modifying the software that the phone runs on, right? Well, there are two outs for that. First, the change is authorized. And second, if you can put the original software back on (I haven't done this, but I've seen lots talk about reflashing with the original image from Nokia's site (I don't remember the name of it)), and the problem still exists, then you're covered. Remember, if this clause is taken literally as it is written, official updates void the warranty. This clause is talking about hacking the OS.

    Last two pages:
    Attachment 63059
    The rest of the warranty language.

    So here's what it boils down to. Is it a hardware failure or a software failure? If it is a hardware failure, what is the cause? If it is a software failure, then it isn't covered anyway, updated with PDP or not. If it is a hardware failure, did software cause the problem? Misuse? Abuse? Not covered. Is it a hardware failure that is unrelated to software, misuse or abuse, or any of the other exclusions? Then you're covered.

    Remember, folks, this warranty is a legally binding contract, not some seat-of-the-pants, run-on-a-whim decision that some customer service level person gets to pick and choose. If the warranty is declined, they have to be able to tell you which of the exclusions was used in the declination, and if you're not satisfied with the answer, go up the ladder, and into a court room if need be. Don't buy into the "it's not covered" mantra without doing your homework.

    Excellent write-up. I just found this after some questions were posted about whether the W10M TP violates the warranty in the US carrier phone scenario.

    Care to share any further thoughts? (sorry if you covered this somewhere else, I wasn't able to find it)
    08-30-2015 07:53 PM
  25. hopmedic's Avatar
    Excellent write-up. I just found this after some questions were posted about whether the W10M TP violates the warranty in the US carrier phone scenario.

    Care to share any further thoughts? (sorry if you covered this somewhere else, I wasn't able to find it)
    What thoughts would you be looking for?
    09-03-2015 12:09 AM
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