Loading...resuming....why?

[AlastorX50]

As a point all OSes have some form of "Loading/Resuming" WP is just designed in a way that makes it more apparent that it's loading the app. Switching apps on my Nexus 5 often brings up a blank white screen or just an app header with the loading circle while it's bringing everything back into memory.

Firmware should speed things up but I wouldn't expect a massive improvement.

1) The MAIN thing that will affect this perception is whether the apps you use have implemented "Fast Resume". This was a new thing in WP8 (I think -- can't remember if that was the release we added it in) and an ISV has to "flag" their app to support it. This might involve testing and in a few apps it involves more work than just testing. SO ... ping the ISVs if you're feeling that apps come up slow. MOST PEOPLE don't say this.


2) A lot of people ask about TRANSITIONS and they assume the transitions "add time" to getting to the app. We've worked hard to make that NOT THE CASE. What we've done is made the transitions happen "while the app is loading" so they give you something to see that fills the time but does NOT slow it down. (OK, maybe a tiny, imperceptible bit.) We would NOT NOT NOT gratuitously make millions of people wait longer to show a turnstile.. we show you the turnstile while you'd be waiting anyway.


-Joe Belfiore

 

[Squachy]

I believe Fast resume was added in one of the WP7 updates. Either Mango or Tango I cant remember.
Not every app was updated to support that.

 

[lovingfriendstar]

They should show the splash screen of the app instead of "Loading..." "Resuming..." message. That's how it's handled in iOS when I last used it. I think it's true for Android too but I'm not so sure.

But agreed. The "Loading..." "Resuming..." screens need to go away. This is 2014, not 2010. I hope Cyan solves this to an extent so that we can get performance of WP8 on WP8.1.

 

[Amrykid]

They should show the splash screen of the app instead of "Loading..." "Resuming..." message. That's how it's handled in iOS when I last used it. I think it's true for Android too but I'm not so sure.

But agreed. The "Loading..." "Resuming..." screens need to go away. This is 2014, not 2010. I hope Cyan solves this to an extent so that we can get performance of WP8 on WP8.1.

The splash screen is shown instead of "loading" IF the app has a splash screen.

 

[Melon Metro]

WP8.1's UI is based on D2D while 8.0 is based on D3D
D2D is more powerful but has lower performance, because it works mostly on CPU ( fewer GPU work than D3D )

 

[simon.b]

1) The MAIN thing that will affect this perception is whether the apps you use have implemented "Fast Resume". This was a new thing in WP8 (I think -- can't remember if that was the release we added it in) and an ISV has to "flag" their app to support it. This might involve testing and in a few apps it involves more work than just testing. SO ... ping the ISVs if you're feeling that apps come up slow. MOST PEOPLE don't say this.

Not entierly. The problem on 512 MB devices is that it is much more likley that your getting tombstoned regardless. Becaus the system needs the memory for other apps you start. To make it better apps should optimize for fast startup time to lessen the impact of restarting the app and lower memory usage to avoid being tombstoned because of resource starvation. The facebook beta is a good example. It starts up much faster and resumes nearly instantly. Giving a more integrated feeling like it was in 8.0.

Microsoft is also currently developing .NET Native to improve memory consumption and load times for store apps written in .NET. See this MSDN Post for more information Announcing .NET Native Preview - .NET Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

WP8.1's UI is based on D2D while 8.0 is based on D3D
D2D is more powerful but has lower performance, because it works mostly on CPU ( fewer GPU work than D3D )

Please don't spread misinformation. Direct 2d is an API meant for 2d graphics processing and font rendering. It's fully hardware accelerated so it certainly makes use of the GPU. The API was not available to developers on windows phone prior to 8.1. Thats what has changed.

 

[Melon Metro]

Yes, D2D does make use of GPU, but it also have much more CPU work than D3D. That's why it is not recommend to develop game (even 2D) with D2D.

 

[AlastorX50]

Not entierly. The problem on 512 MB devices is that it is much more likley that your getting tombstoned regardless. Becaus the system needs the memory for other apps you start. To make it better apps should optimize for fast startup time to lessen the impact of restarting the app and lower memory usage to avoid being tombstoned because of resource starvation. The facebook beta is a good example. It starts up much faster and resumes nearly instantly. Giving a more integrated feeling like it was in 8.0.

Microsoft is also currently developing .NET Native to improve memory consumption and load times for store apps written in .NET. See this MSDN Post for more information Announcing .NET Native Preview - .NET Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs



Please don't spread misinformation. Direct 2d is an API meant for 2d graphics processing and font rendering. It's fully hardware accelerated so it certainly makes use of the GPU. The API was not available to developers on windows phone prior to 8.1. Thats what has changed.

This is where Joe was talking about Windows Phone 8.1.

 

[Ankit Nawlakha]

So guys what's your call.?? Will the firmware update address the issue of " loading and resuming"..??



Sent from the Black Wonder using Tapatalk

 

[simon.b]

Yes, D2D does make use of GPU, but it also have much more CPU work than D3D. That's why it is not recommend to develop game (even 2D) with D2D.

Direct 2D ist based on Direct 3D so one would assume that it can use hardware acceleration to the same degree as D3D. And yes it has a software rasterizer as well. To quote msdn "For scenarios where the use of hardware acceleration is not feasible, Direct2D includes a high-performance software rasterizer.".

About Direct2D (Windows)

It also has a high level of interop with D3D so you can use it in a D3D game for 2d elements like menus and huds wich is also a suggested scenario from Microsoft themeselfs.

Your original statement is even more wrong. You can't possibly know what the WP8 UI is based on since you are not a developer at MS. It probably always used D2D because it is pretty much made for these scenarios. I highly doubt they rewrote the whole stack. I guess you misinterpreted the availability of Direct 2D in the WP 8.1 SDK. It's now available to developers outside MS as well.

 

[Melon Metro]

You can check the calling stack when debugging a WP8/8.1 program. WP8 even has not D2D's DLL on the device ( check the simulatior's WP8 image).

 

[Draganta]

They should show the splash screen of the app instead of "Loading..." "Resuming..." message. That's how it's handled in iOS when I last used it. I think it's true for Android too but I'm not so sure.

But agreed. The "Loading..." "Resuming..." screens need to go away. This is 2014, not 2010. I hope Cyan solves this to an extent so that we can get performance of WP8 on WP8.1.

So instead of only loading the app, it will also need to load the splash-screen as well, making it even slower?

 

[JyhJiin]

Totally agree with you. Its really frustrating to stare at the loading screen for so long. This even happens when i'm navigating back to the home screen. Its even frustrating when i need to get things done urgently.

 

[go1020]

Like someone mentioned before, it's the app resume and the way it's coded, that is more responsible for the loading/resuming thing. For example, WPC app is clearly very fast to resume in 8.1 (even if you leave it from comments section), it's incredible!

 

[chezm]

as a 1020 user, i do not see "Loading.../Resuming..." frequently, maybe once in a while. Now mind you i try to close all apps when im done, leaving none in background...similar as what i did when using iOS.

 

[go1020]

On a related note, I do see a lot of cards without actual cards showing up (just the icons at the bottom) in the cards view.

 

[Moiz Mian]

So guys what's your call.?? Will the firmware update address the issue of " loading and resuming"..??



Sent from the Black Wonder using Tapatalk

No, firmware will not make a difference. It's an OS issue, and for some reason it's really hard to fix. Look at Microsoft's Skype and Music app and even the new Facebook app. Even high quality apps like baconit, Fuse, (Rudy's apps). Fast resume has been available since 7.5 or 8.0 and even 8.0 designed apps have the "resuming..." screen. Now sure, I've seen some apps reduce the time of the resuming screen, but when you start seeing it on the home screen and messaging from time to time, you know the issue is deeply rooted in the OS. It seems like it's getting worse and worse too.

 

[rodan01]

I think 8.1 is more aggressive loading and unloading from memory to improve the performance of the current app. They even unload the start screen.
So it could be a trade off between app performance vs load time.
What do you prefer, lag or the loading screen?
Maybe they are trying to support phones with 256mb of ram.

 

[AlastorX50]

No, firmware will not make a difference. It's an OS issue, and for some reason it's really hard to fix. Look at Microsoft's Skype and Music app and even the new Facebook app. Even high quality apps like baconit, Fuse, (Rudy's apps). Fast resume has been available since 7.5 or 8.0 and even 8.0 designed apps have the "resuming..." screen. Now sure, I've seen some apps reduce the time of the resuming screen, but when you start seeing it on the home screen and messaging from time to time, you know the issue is deeply rooted in the OS. It seems like it's getting worse and worse too.

So guys what's your call.?? Will the firmware update address the issue of " loading and resuming"..??



Sent from the Black Wonder using Tapatalk

Yes. Yes it will, Firmware not only gives new features but it provides drivers to the OS, instead the OS has to provide emulated drivers which affect battery life and phone performance.

Think of it when you install an OS on a computer something might be buggy with the software or there is a constant error between a piece of hardware and software. Updating the BIOS for the motherboard and getting drivers for your computer is essential to make it run as efficient and cause less head-aches in the future.

When installing an OS for the first time you will see drivers like such (Microsoft Device Association Root Enumerator) that are emulating the driver as best it can or until your install or MS installs the correct associated driver.

Since Windows phone runs the same kernel as its desktop and RT brothers, it shares the same logic.

In short yes, firmware will make the device run like its supposed to when we hit launch, its now a wait and see method.
Don't believe me then wait and see.

 

[a5cent]

You can check the calling stack when debugging a WP8/8.1 program. WP8 even has not D2D's DLL on the device ( check the simulatior's WP8 image).

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding something. Looking at a call-stack won't tell you much about performance. I'd agree with Simon.

So guys what's your call.?? Will the firmware update address the issue of " loading and resuming"..??

Yes. Yes it will, Firmware not only gives new features but it provides drivers to the OS, instead the OS has to provide emulated drivers which affect battery life and phone performance.

I'm very sceptical. OEM provided firmware includes display drivers, camera drivers, OS configuration files, sensor drivers... stuff like that. That is all entirely irrelevant in regard to launching/resuming times!

All the drivers that interface with the SoC (CPU, RAM, GPU, etc) are built by MS/qualcomm for all devices, and those drivers are shipped together with the OS. They are already included in the WP8.1 preview for developers. Nothing is being emulated. I think you are taking experiences you made on Windows and expecting them to apply equally to WP, but that isn't true.

Anyway. I see no reason why OEM provided firmware should have any influence on launch/resuming times whatsoever. The issues I listed in post #10 are far more relevant.

The main reason why we should encounter the resuming message less frequently is because WP8.1 will collect more precise information on app memory usage. On WP8.0 the OS just assumes memory usage = maximum memory cap, which is almost always wrong. WP8.1 is expected to tombstone apps less frequently as a result. Under WP8.1 fast resume is also considered the default approach, so apps developed for WP8.1 are assumed to support that, whereas on WP8.0 that wasn't true. But as I said in post #10, many issues are involved.

Simon mentioned .Net native, which will make a huge difference once widely adopted on WP, but I don't know if WP8.1 is the platform on which .Net native will achieve widespread adoption.