Wp 8.1 File Manager

[a5cent]

If you would have clearly read my further comments, maybe what you said would have any credit.

I think my post stands on its own. I don't think anything you wrote afterwards is of much consequence. Make of it what you will.

 

[bilzkh]

It's no secret that a lot of people want a file manager on Windows Phone, but it doesn't necessarily mean they want the exact same kind as the system in Android or even their Windows PCs. Just think about it... What do people want to move around on their phones? It's media. It's .mp3s, .mp4s, .pdfs, .docx, etc. As long as Microsoft were to implement a file manager-like system that let people freely and easily move these media files around the phone, the need will be satisfied. A solution similar to Modern on Windows 8.1 where local files can be accessed via the OneDrive app would be good enough (for accessing and moving media files). If our PCs let us move docs/music/videos we download from other apps or even the browser freely, I don't get why the phone requires a conflicting paradigm shift.

 

[a5cent]

It's no secret that a lot of people want a file manager on Windows Phone, but it doesn't necessarily mean they want the exact same kind as the system in Android or even their Windows PCs. Just think about it... What do people want to move around on their phones? It's media. It's .mp3s, .mp4s, .pdfs, .docx, etc. As long as Microsoft were to implement a file manager-like system that let people freely and easily move these media files around the phone, the need will be satisfied. A solution similar to Modern on Windows 8.1 where local files can be accessed via the OneDrive app would be good enough (for accessing and moving media files). If our PCs let us move docs/music/videos we download from other apps or even the browser freely, I don't get why the phone requires a conflicting paradigm shift.

I don't think that is a problem. I'm pretty sure WP8.1 will provide that, but like you said, that is not a file manager as we know it from Android or Windows. What we will probably get is something like a SkyDrive app, which gives us access to the sync folder and everything beneath it, while also allowing us to restructure the contents as we see fit. Maybe the library folders will also be merged into that structure. We will see.

 

[ronty]

That depends on what your definition of security is. Security is not just about minimizing the chance of malware infections across a network. It's also about keeping people's data private and safe, and malware is by far not the only threat to such things. Security even includes protecting users from themselves. It is a very large field.

I can even provide some anecdotal evidence from personal experience, explaining how the Windows file manager was instrumental in helping malware delete a few gigabytes worth of photographs. My girlfriend spent some time traveling Asia. She would occasionally stop by in internet caf?s to upload her travel documentation to the web, and to transfer her photographs from her camera to one of her USB drives. It was probably in such a caf? where she picked up malware, which was really just an executable file (*.exe) that had at some point been run on the infected host. The malware ensured that the windows file manager was configured to "not show file extensions for known file types". It then made all the folders on the USB drive "hidden", and then copied itself to the USB drive, once for every folder it had previously hidden, and in that process, took on the names of those folders.

This piece of malware was extremely trivial, just a normal exe file, with an icon that looked exactly like a Windows folder. Because the file extensions where hidden, she didn't realize that by clicking on the folder icon, she was not actually opening a folder, but rather launching a malware infested executable. Of course, the malware would then cause windows explorer to navigate to the corresponding hidden folder, so it didn't look like anything was wrong.

A few weeks later, when the USB drive was close to full, she clicked on the "folder" again, which caused it to delete all her photographs and to create an endless number of junk files in their place.

This was an extremely unsophisticated and low tech attack, and good for nothing except doing harm, but it is an example of how a file manager can play a role in compromising security. There are many far more sophisticated approaches.

I agree with you on the fact that a file manager can cause security concerns.But the thing is, WP can't run Windows programs & apps. Its market share is too less for malware creators to take much notice of it. Of course that does not mean that it will be perfectly safe from viruses. But you should remember, file manager or no file manager, if the cyber criminals would like to create viruses for WP they will do it & no one will be able to totally stop them from doing so. However, if you want to be perfectly safe from viruses on your WP, then you should start wishing that WP stops gaining market share & remain below 4% worldwide. But I do not want that, and to increase the market share MS will have to bring those features to WP which other OSs have. I have seen many phones with file managers, & none have been affected by malware(Androids too).

 

[a5cent]

I agree with you on the fact that a file manager can cause security concerns.But the thing is, WP can't run Windows programs & apps. Its market share is too less for malware creators to take much notice of it. Of course that does not mean that it will be perfectly safe from viruses. But you should remember, file manager or no file manager, if the cyber criminals would like to create viruses for WP they will do it & no one will be able to totally stop them from doing so. However, if you want to be perfectly safe from viruses on your WP, then you should start wishing that WP stops gaining market share & remain below 4% worldwide. But I do not want that, and to increase the market share MS will have to bring those features to WP which other OSs have. I have seen many phones with file managers, & none have been affected by malware(Androids too).

Hey ronty, unfortunately, I don't really understand what point you are trying to make.

• Yes, WP doesn't have the market share to be an attractive target for malware developers. So what? Does that mean MS can ignore WP security? Of course not.
• I do not expect any OS anywhere to ever be perfectly safe from malware. No man made IT system ever will be. This discussion is not about being perfectly secure or being entirely insecure. It's about where an OS lies between those two extremes.
• It should be obvious that just because you haven't been affected by malware, doesn't mean nobody has. Unfortunately, humans suck at thinking on a global scale. If we don't know anybody who was infected by malware on Android, most will automatically assume the problem doesn't exist. People have difficulties believing that millions of people in Russia may be having a completely different Android security experience than they are in their own countries. All anyone needs to do is a little research. The actual extent is exaggerated on both sides of course. Google/Android friendly publications won't admit a problem exists, and security researchers selling malware detection and removal tools have a lot of incentive to overstate the problem. The truth lies somewhere in between, but that still amounts to millions of dollars being stolen by way of Android malware.

 

[ronty]

Hey ronty, unfortunately, I don't really understand what point you are trying to make.

• Yes, WP doesn't have the market share to be an attractive target for malware developers. So what? Does that mean MS can ignore WP security? Of course not.
• I do not expect any OS anywhere to ever be perfectly safe from malware. No man made IT system ever will be. This discussion is not about being perfectly secure or being entirely insecure. It's about where an OS lies between those two extremes.
• It should be obvious that just because you haven't been affected by malware, doesn't mean nobody has. Unfortunately, humans suck at thinking on a global scale. If we don't know anybody who was infected by malware on Android, most will automatically assume the problem doesn't exist. People have difficulties believing that millions of people in Russia may be having a completely different Android security experience than they are in their own countries. All anyone needs to do is a little research. The actual extent is exaggerated on both sides of course. Google/Android friendly publications won't admit a problem exists, and security researchers selling malware detection and removal tools have a lot of incentive to overstate the problem. The truth lies somewhere in between, but that still amounts to millions of dollars being stolen by way of Android malware.

Hey a5cent, I never did say that since I've not been affected by malware, it means that nobody has. How can you automatically assume that I'm not thinking on a global scale. I'm just giving an example that including a file manager does not necessarily mean that you will be affected by malware. MS should definitely focus on WP security but to say that a file manager is such a big security concern IS exaggeration. If a file manager is a big security concern then at least 60-70% of Android users would be affected by malware and some more on iOS since you earlier said that Apple provides the APIs for apps to help provide access to files.

 

[a5cent]

^ Like I mentioned, I didn't really understand what you were trying to say. I just took some blind shots at issues I thought might be related to the point you were making. Sorry if I missed.

Notice that our misunderstandings go both ways however. I made no comment on how big of a security risk a file manager may be. That depends. A file manager is not typically a huge security hole by itself, but it is one more tool malware can attempt to misuse. It does nudge the OS towards being less secure overall. Not only because of malware, but also because of what it enables ignorant users to do to themselves, which happens all the time. I also think you misunderstand how malware spreads... a 60% infection rate would be cataclysmic... no malware has achieved that, ever! 1% already counts as a very unlikely and huge success, but given that billions use smartphones, that 1% amounts to millions of infected devices. I also don't understand the reference to iOS. At least in this thread I didn't mention it.

 

[TechAbstract]

Give me the name of one virus found on Android.

One virus infected 500,000 users a while back.

China Ravaged By 'SMSZombie' Malware; Over 500,000 Android Devices Infected [REPORT] - International Digital Times

 

[colinkiama]

I agree with you on the fact that a file manager can cause security concerns.But the thing is, WP can't run Windows programs & apps. Its market share is too less for malware creators to take much notice of it. Of course that does not mean that it will be perfectly safe from viruses. But you should remember, file manager or no file manager, if the cyber criminals would like to create viruses for WP they will do it & no one will be able to totally stop them from doing so. However, if you want to be perfectly safe from viruses on your WP, then you should start wishing that WP stops gaining market share & remain below 4% worldwide. But I do not want that, and to increase the market share MS will have to bring those features to WP which other OSs have. I have seen many phones with file managers, & none have been affected by malware(Androids too).

Arrgh, file manager on the Phone is what we mean! Do you really think Microsoft would have a file manager via usb?

 

[ronty]

It's okay. I'm sorry I can't recall where I read that Apple provides some APIs for devs to create file managers for iOS. Either that was you in some other thread or someone else or I may have mixed up something(but I'm definitely not imagining this).
Cutting the malware story short, what many others & I want is the ability to access the files stored on the SD card. Why? Because it is our storage space, so we should be able to have proper control on it. By this we mean the ability to see what files have been downloaded or shared between different devices even if the phone does not support the formats, group files into different folders and move them from one place to another. Now, before(and if) you ask the question 'Why?', I would like to give the answer that not everyone has a pc or a tablet at their disposal, either at that very moment or he/she just do not have one. So, they need the ability to properly manage their own files on the phone itself. Using SkyDrive is not a viable option since not everyone has a fast internet connection(and neither a very reliable one).
As for the system files MS can block them how much it can, we have no problems with that. About malware, I'm sure you have much more knowledge than me about the matter & I'm not going to challenge you into it. I just want to tell you that I too do not want that WP should be affected with malware just like you but if the security of the OS comes in such a way so as to remove such an essential feature for many(even if it is not used daily) then I with many others can't stand that sense of security. And if someone tries to tell me or any others that we should switch to Android, then I must say that this kind of arrogance will not take anybody much far(as far as WP is concerned).

P.S.Sorry if I seem rude to you. Thank you for having a healthy conversation with me all the while. I don't think it's of much use trying to have such a big discussion on malware. I hope you'll agree with me too. Guess I'll have to wait till WP 8.1 actually arrives. If it does not give what I expect, then it would be a sad goodbye to WP for my next phone.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I'm still at a loss as to why this conversation is still going.

It's already been stated that some form of 'file' management system is coming. What that's going to look like we don't know. What's being said is that it won't be Windows or Android like because security is essential to MS.

Yes Apple has apps you can get for free and purchase that provide a 'file' manager like system. I think the one on WP will probably be similar. Keep in mind however that that system is still sandboxed but the APIs that are needed to make it useful is there . It's most likely that that file manager system in WP will be incorporated into Skydrive (OneDrive) as a means of keeping the functionality in 'one' place. Keeping in mind that OneDrive will be deeply integrated into WP.

So, will WP have some form of file manager? Yes. Will it be like Android, no. Will be like Windows, no. Will it do what you mostly want it to do? Probably, by that I mean access to files on the phone and SD but limited. That's all we know currently. Whether there will be file folder creation and access? I don't know and neither does anyone else not involved with the programming but it's likely as it makes sense.

That's pretty much where this conversation should end. There's a giant file manager thread on here (maybe more than one) with tonnes of arguments and discussions. We don't really need another one do we? We don't have the details 100% of what's coming, why don't we just wait and see? Then you can either cheer or mourn.

 

[bilzkh]

I'm still at a loss as to why this conversation is still going.

...because people want to see the damn file manager solution! The ambiguity is killing people, so this discussion is all anxiety.

Anyways, I think it'll be similar to the Windows 8.x Metro solution, i.e. local access via the OneDrive app. Demand for a file manager on Windows Phone circulates around the desire to manage media such as music, videos, documents, pictures, etc. It's utterly frustrating to download something and not be able to put it where you want it to be. I'm pretty sure we'll see a solution that will satisfy that need. However, if people are looking for registry access and stuff, then no, not happening.

 

[ohgood]

That depends on what your definition of security is. Security is not just about minimizing the chance of malware infections across a network. It's also about keeping people's data private and safe, and malware is by far not the only threat to such things. Security even includes protecting users from themselves. It is a very large field.

I can even provide some anecdotal evidence from personal experience, explaining how the Windows file manager was instrumental in helping malware delete a few gigabytes worth of photographs. My girlfriend spent some time traveling Asia. She would occasionally stop by in internet caf?s to upload her travel documentation to the web, and to transfer her photographs from her camera to one of her USB drives. It was probably in such a caf? where she picked up malware, which was really just an executable file (*.exe) that had at some point been run on the infected host. The malware ensured that the windows file manager was configured to "not show file extensions for known file types". It then made all the folders on the USB drive "hidden", and then copied itself to the USB drive, once for every folder it had previously hidden, and in that process, took on the names of those folders.

This piece of malware was extremely trivial, just a normal exe file, with an icon that looked exactly like a Windows folder. Because the file extensions where hidden, she didn't realize that by clicking on the folder icon, she was not actually opening a folder, but rather launching a malware infested executable. Of course, the malware would then cause windows explorer to navigate to the corresponding hidden folder, so it didn't look like anything was wrong.

A few weeks later, when the USB drive was close to full, she clicked on the "folder" again, which caused it to delete all her photographs and to create an endless number of junk files in their place.

This was an extremely unsophisticated and low tech attack, and good for nothing except doing harm, but it is an example of how a file manager can play a role in compromising security. There are many far more sophisticated approaches.

sounds like she got the beta version of "other" folder.

its not beta anymore!

 

[ohgood]

if folks want to believe that file access is impossible to implement for a software company, that's cool.

when Microsoft does finally figure out how to do it on phones much like they do on desktop os's , like everyone/everywhere else has been for years (iPhone needs an app, I stand corrected, but its apparently possible on iPhone), I'll personally send them an air-high-five.

hopefully this one won't get the standard deflection of " but android got a virus once!!!", or " but iPhone !" and it can stay on track.



edited to include iPhone info and clarity

 

[N_LaRUE]

when Microsoft does finally figure out how to do it on phones like everyone/everywhere else has been for years, I'll personally send them an air-high-five.

Um, iPhone doesn't have a built in file manger. You need an app for that.

 

[N_LaRUE]

...because people want to see the damn file manager solution! The ambiguity is killing people, so this discussion is all anxiety.

We don't have the details and we won't have the details until MS releases WP8.1, hopefully in April. So anxiety or not, going on about a subject that's been talked about to death is rather pointless. Thing is I'm seeing the same discussion as before, same answers, same arguments. It's boring.

Can't people just be happy a solution is coming and wait and see what it is? If it still doesn't suit your needs change OS. It's not that hard, really.

 

[ronty]

Arrgh, file manager on the Phone is what we mean! Do you really think Microsoft would have a file manager via usb?

Sorry to ask you,but where did I say about a file manager via USB? I too want a file manager on the phone itself.

 

[ohgood]

Um, iPhone doesn't have a built in file manger. You need an app for that.

didn't see the iPhone deflection coming.

thanks for the info about what iPhone -can- do, I don't own one myself. i'll edit my post now to see the point easier.

 

[N_LaRUE]

didn't see the iPhone deflection coming.

thanks for the info about what iPhone -can- do, I don't own one myself. i'll edit my post now to see the point easier.

WP is pretty much a copy of iPhone in a lot of ways. The biggest difference is the functionality and the open APIs. I think with WP8.1 we will see better development for WP and more interest from developers.

 

[a5cent]

if folks want to believe that file access is impossible to implement for a software company, that's cool

Nobody said it is not possible. The point is that there are many reasons not to implement the feature, despite it being technically possible.

iPhone needs an app, I stand corrected, but its apparently possible on iPhone

That too is incorrect. You must jailbreak the iPhone if you really want a file manager, which very few are willing to do (that is something I have not seen yet on WP). For the none geek-population however, the only alternative is to use an app that can upload/download files between isolated storage and the internet. Apps exist on WP that do the same thing, but none of those apps can do all the things people here are expecting from a file manager. Like N_LaRUE said, WP and iOS are architecturally very similar. Apple doesn't allow a file manager for the same reason MS doesn't.