1. pluizebol's Avatar
    Hi,

    Setting the time to the second sharp is a pain in WP8.

    Not being able to synchronize the clock/time with an NTP server is also a problem in WP8
    especially because the clock in my 2 Lumia 925 phones is losing between 5 and 10 sec per day

    Is there anything in WP8.1 that solves this shortcoming ?

    Thanks
    02-12-2014 02:38 AM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    You should complain to your carrier. They're the ones not supplying the signal.

    I have the same issue by the way. I'm not that paranoid about it.

    So it's not a short comming of WP8. It's a short coming of your carrier for not caring about WP8.
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    02-12-2014 03:01 AM
  3. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    I agree. The time on Windows Phones rely on carriers and their time and the signal strength.

    You should lose some time, especially if you are in a place with poor signal, are on airplane mode, or reboot a lot. By the way, the solution to the "problem" is a short soft reset away.
    02-12-2014 03:55 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I agree. The time on Windows Phones rely on carriers and their time and the signal strength.

    You should lose some time, especially if you are in a place with poor signal, are on airplane mode, or reboot a lot. By the way, the solution to the "problem" is a short soft reset away.
    My provider doesn't supply the signal at all. Not sure why. :/
    02-12-2014 03:59 AM
  5. pluizebol's Avatar
    Hi N-LaRUE

    When I set my clock to Automatic then I am losing even more seconds every day (even more than 10 sec/day).
    I know that my provider is not doing a good job here, that is why I disable the automatic setting.

    When I disable Automatic, the clock depends on WP8 or on the Nokia firmware and should run properly as long as I stay in the same time zone.
    Well it is not ! it loses 5 to 10 seconds per day.
    That means that WP8 or Nokia Lumia 925 are not doing great either.
    B.t.w. I have 3 Lumia 925 phones with exactly the same problem and one of them has been replaced (in vain) because of that problem.

    I just cannot stand it that my $450 phones are not able to provide me with the exact time !
    02-12-2014 06:01 AM
  6. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Hi N-LaRUE

    When I set my clock to Automatic then I am losing even more seconds every day (even more than 10 sec/day).
    I know that my provider is not doing a good job here, that is why I disable the automatic setting.

    When I disable Automatic, the clock depends on WP8 or on the Nokia firmware and should run properly as long as I stay in the same time zone.
    Well it is not ! it loses 5 to 10 seconds per day.
    That means that WP8 or Nokia Lumia 925 are not doing great either.
    B.t.w. I have 3 Lumia 925 phones with exactly the same problem and one of them has been replaced (in vain) because of that problem.

    I just cannot stand it that my $450 phones are not able to provide me with the exact time !
    All digital clocks lose time on a daily basis. It's one of the downfalls of digital clocks, (or any clock for that matter) that's why some have syncs to atomic clocks.

    If your provider is not supplying the time and date signal then your clock will be wrong. There's nothing Nokia or MS can do about it.

    That's the reality. Regardless on how much you pay for it. Sorry if that's unsatisfactory.
    02-12-2014 06:26 AM
  7. pluizebol's Avatar
    All digital clocks lose time on a daily basis. It's one of the downfalls of digital clocks, (or any clock for that matter) that's why some have syncs to atomic clocks.

    If your provider is not supplying the time and date signal then your clock will be wrong. There's nothing Nokia or MS can do about it.

    That's the reality. Regardless on how much you pay for it. Sorry if that's unsatisfactory.
    Hi N_LaRUE

    Well, that is exactly why I was expecting (in vain ?) a synchronization possibility with an atomic clock (in other words an NTP server).
    02-12-2014 06:39 AM
  8. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Hi N_LaRUE

    Well, that is exactly why I was expecting (in vain ?) a synchronization possibility with an atomic clock (in other words an NTP server).
    Show me a phone that has a direct sync to an atomic clock. There is none. All NTP comes through the carrier. What don't you understand?

    If your carrier doesn't support WP there is nothing MS or Nokia can do. The clock will lose time. Simple.
    02-12-2014 06:53 AM
  9. AndyCalling's Avatar
    There is a fault with your phone. My carrier doesn't supply the time to any phone, including WP, but my L820 does not lose time like that. Something is wrong with the clock in the OP's phone if it is that inaccurate. On a related note, the app ClockSync is free from the store and the best way I've found to set my clock when needed. Also, MS provide an NTP time server and all other current versions of Windows can use it. Why exclude WP8? I just cannot fathom it at all.
    pluizebol likes this.
    02-12-2014 07:21 AM
  10. pluizebol's Avatar
    All digital clocks lose time on a daily basis. It's one of the downfalls of digital clocks, (or any clock for that matter) that's why some have syncs to atomic clocks.

    If your provider is not supplying the time and date signal then your clock will be wrong. There's nothing Nokia or MS can do about it.

    That's the reality. Regardless on how much you pay for it. Sorry if that's unsatisfactory.
    Oh my goodness N_LaRUE, what you are trying to make me believe is really hilarious:
    I have lots of electronic devices with digital clocks in my house (coffee-machine, microwave oven, my 2 cars, my desktop, my 2 laptops, all the digital clocks in my house, etc. etc.) and they all keep the time perfectly OK (without being connected to whatever provider). According to your answer, they have to be extraordinary devices because they do not lose time ?? Come on !!!

    Do some reading in the different forums about this issue with WP and Nokia phones and you will notice that I am not alone with this problem.

    I do not appreciate that you try to make me believe that I am retarded or that I ask for impossible things.
    I am an MS&Nokia lover since day 1, and it is not my intention to troll in any way.
    But when I have a problem (together with many others from Australia over Singapore and Europe to the US) with an MS or Nokia product, I want to be taken seriously - You did not do that - shame on you.

    I do not expect any further answers from you, I will not even read them anymore.
    Have a nice day.
    02-12-2014 12:31 PM
  11. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    You know something. There are days when I often find it hard to talk to people who take offense easily. I never once mentioned you were retarded and if you don't wish to learn anything, that's your prerogative. However, for the sake of others I will explain how clocks work and why they go out of time.

    First, digital clocks attached to the mains works by means of converting the frequency of your AC line and using it as a means of keeping time. If you have a poor AC line in the area you live then it's quite likely that your clocks will drift off time. I'm not talking about power going off but about frequency drift within your AC signal. So your plug--in clocks are reliant on your power supply to put it in simplest terms for maintaining a proper time. Of course, quality of the electronics plays a part in this as well.

    Second, digital clocks powered by batteries use a quartz crystal to maintain time. Though these crystals are accurate they all vary to some degree. On top of that they are affected by humidity and temperature. So if you do not receive a signal to keep your time up to date on your watch or any other device that uses batteries the time will eventually drift. With smartphones we have the issue that they heat up quite considerably when used heavily. They even heat up when you have poor signal conditions. This will cause the time to drift.

    Now, MS could provide a means to update the clock when you are connected to WiFi as a solution but the simple reality is mobile carriers are the ones who send the signal. If your particular device is not setup on their network you won't get the signal. It's that simple.

    MS and Nokia are not blame for this issue.
    02-13-2014 02:17 AM
  12. greycounciller's Avatar
    If I remember correctly, the sync on WP8 is done via the mobile network through your carrier. If your carrier is not supporting it, there nothing for the phone to sync to. Is it not as clear as that?
    02-13-2014 04:07 AM
  13. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    If I remember correctly, the sync on WP8 is done via the mobile network through your carrier. If your carrier is not supporting it, there nothing for the phone to sync to. Is it not as clear as that?
    I already said this. Unfortunately people don't seem to understand. They also seem to be under this impression that time stays accurate because they spend a lot of money. That's why I put up an explanation as to why it doesn't.
    02-13-2014 04:20 AM
  14. pluizebol's Avatar
    If the mobile network doesn't do it's job properly (and there are carriers not doing their job properly or even not at all), then people are in trouble because their clock is running slow.
    Android phones do have a possibility to synchronize their clock with an NTP (atomic) server, and there are apps in the Android store to just do that synchronization.

    I like Windows Phones but I am probably not enough "fanboy" to simply accept that this is a non-needed feature.
    It is a very nice and useful feature which is much to my (and others) regret not available in Windows Phone !
    That's all folks : I am fine with it if you do not need it, but do not try to convince me that I do not need it, because I do.
    02-13-2014 04:41 AM
  15. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    If the mobile network doesn't do it's job properly (and there are carriers not doing their job properly or even not at all), then people are in trouble because their clock is running slow.
    Android phones do have a possibility to synchronize their clock with an NTP (atomic) server, and there are apps in the Android store to just do that synchronization.

    I like Windows Phones but I am probably not enough "fanboy" to simply accept that this is a non-needed feature.
    It is a very nice and useful feature which is much to my (and others) regret not available in Windows Phone !
    That's all folks : I am fine with it if you do not need it, but do not try to convince me that I do not need it, because I do.
    Again you make more of what people are saying than what is reality. No one is saying having the ability to sync directly with a NTP server is a bad idea. However, your current issue is related to the fact that your carrier doesn't support your phone on the network. This is the way mobile phones update their time and date. Have done so for years.

    This is why I said MS and Nokia have done nothing wrong and you pointing the finger at them is incorrect. They're just doing what everyone else is doing. If a carrier doesn't want to send a signal to your phone that's not their fault.

    I am not a 'fanboy' of anything. I'm just pointing out reality and how things are done. Sorry you seem to have an issue with that.
    02-13-2014 05:03 AM
  16. AndyCalling's Avatar
    That still doesn't explain it properly. I say again, my carrier gives NO TIME FEED AT ALL TO ANY PHONE. Ok? So why have I never had a phone anywhere near as inaccurate as the OP's? Yes, it's not as accurate as an atomic clock, but mine goes for months without varying by more than a second or two. The last time I owned a clock for which significant time loss/gain of the OP's experience was acceptable, it was a wind up clockwork device. We've moved on since the 70s. That phone is faulty.
    02-16-2014 09:38 AM
  17. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    That still doesn't explain it properly. I say again, my carrier gives NO TIME FEED AT ALL TO ANY PHONE. Ok? So why have I never had a phone anywhere near as inaccurate as the OP's? Yes, it's not as accurate as an atomic clock, but mine goes for months without varying by more than a second or two. The last time I owned a clock for which significant time loss/gain of the OP's experience was acceptable, it was a wind up clockwork device. We've moved on since the 70s. That phone is faulty.
    I explained why it happens. I have no idea how they use their phone so I can't say what is effecting it. I have pointed to some possibilities. My time drifts, such is life. If the carrier refuses to supply a signal for time it's not Nokia or MS fault, they're just doing what everyone else is doing. You can say it's unacceptable but WP is not alone in with this issue. All phones will do the exact same in the same circumstances. The OP was suggesting that Nokia or MS should supply the signal. That's not what happens with any other phone. Sure there's apps on Android that 'fix' the problem, but again, it's not a proper solution. The solution is the carrier should be sending the signal for the time and date.

    As to why you never had an issue, maybe your phone didn't get as hot as Lumia phones do? Maybe your other phones were not smartphones? Maybe you didn't game as much or weren't in the same climate conditions as the OP? All these affect the quartz crystal as I've explained. There's bloody scientific papers on climate conditions and quartz crystal accuracy.

    You're right, this isn't the 70s but I'm explaining reality. Sorry you don't seem to grasp it.
    02-17-2014 03:38 AM
  18. Nik Rolls's Avatar
    Give him a break, guys. There are valid reasons that he is not getting the time feed, and to expect one person to be able to change how a network operates is pretty ridiculous.

    My network (Vodafone NZ) also doesn't provide time synchronization. It's not an issue in their network hardware, as they use Nokia Networks. It is a conscious choice on their behalf not to provide it, even so far as they remove the option from the Windows Phone OS (I'm unsure about other OS as I don't use them).

    It's a bit pointless to expect that I can make them change all this, not only provide time synchronisation but also get them to do firmware updates for all the phones they've disabled it on, just because a few people want it. So I have often wished that Windows Phone had NTP support, or even -- as I am a developer -- an API to let me set the clock so I could write an NTP app myself. I don't have the time drift issues that Andy has, but I do like to keep my phone clock spot on because I use it more than anything else to tell the time.

    Hopefully WP8.1 will have NTP, or if not then at least an API to set the clock so I can release an app for it. It's not an unreasonable feature to want.
    pluizebol and Big Anonymouse like this.
    02-20-2014 07:29 PM
  19. Big Anonymouse's Avatar
    I explained why it happens. I have no idea how they use their phone so I can't say what is effecting it. I have pointed to some possibilities. My time drifts, such is life. If the carrier refuses to supply a signal for time it's not Nokia or MS fault, they're just doing what everyone else is doing. You can say it's unacceptable but WP is not alone in with this issue. All phones will do the exact same in the same circumstances. The OP was suggesting that Nokia or MS should supply the signal. That's not what happens with any other phone. Sure there's apps on Android that 'fix' the problem, but again, it's not a proper solution. The solution is the carrier should be sending the signal for the time and date.

    As to why you never had an issue, maybe your phone didn't get as hot as Lumia phones do? Maybe your other phones were not smartphones? Maybe you didn't game as much or weren't in the same climate conditions as the OP? All these affect the quartz crystal as I've explained. There's bloody scientific papers on climate conditions and quartz crystal accuracy.

    You're right, this isn't the 70s but I'm explaining reality. Sorry you don't seem to grasp it.
    Mate, not only you're being very patronizing, but you are also somewhat wrong and completely unhelpful.

    You are ignoring the original questions ("why is there no NTP internet time sync feature when many networks don't provide time sync" and "why does my time drift on Lumia 925"), throwing red herrings around and also being very arrogant for no reason ("I'm explaining reality. Sorry you don't seem to grasp it."). No one really deserves that kind of abuse for asking a completely sane question about a common problem.

    Well, two points, about your "reality":

    - NTP time already works on Android by default, Is Android using NTP to sync time? - Stack Overflow :

    If the automatic time sync option in the system settings is checked and no NITZ time service is available then the time will be synchronized with the NTP server from com.android.internal.R.string.config_ntpServer.
    - iOS does not have these issues with time for one reason or another (it "just works")

    - Apparently, MS know that this is an issue so the General Distribution Release 1 (GDR1) for Windows Phone 8.1 is supposed (according to leaks) to have NTP time sync in the same way that Android does: Next Windows Phone 8.1 update: smart covers, sensors and 7in displays | News | PC Pro :

    Another update coming in Windows Phone 8.1 GDR1 is Network Time Protocol (NTP) support, which ensures the correct time and date are displayed on the phone, even when the carrier's Network Identity and Time Zone systems are not working.
    One more thing - a personal observation: I had a Lumia 710 (WP7) and my wife has a HTC.. can't remember exactly which, some nice rugged small WP7 device. I also had an iPhone before that. We never had any issues with time or automatic Time Zone. I moved to Lumia 925 (unlocked - so I kept the same carrier/simcard as I had in 710) - awesome phone, but automatic time and time zone doesn't work anymore. I since changed carriers (in the UK, from O2 to Vodafone) - no change. My wife's WP7 HTC time still works on the same network.

    So, basically, from pure consumer's perspective the problem is there, and the problem is not present on other phones. Consumer doesn't care about excuses, especially not ones like "All phones will do the exact same in the same circumstances.", because it does not match the reality.
    07-30-2014 09:20 AM

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