1. bilzkh's Avatar
    This is just a thought, but would the official release of Windows Phone 8.1 be a good time to dbut a Surface Phone?

    I know, I know, "...WHY!?"

    Well, there's been some worry on the part of some that the loss of the Nokia brand behind Lumia may set Windows Phone back a bit. Sure, it won't impact North America all that much (Nokia isn't a heavyweight here), but people in Europe, Asia and Middle East do seem to be worried. Nokia's a pretty strong brand for phones in Nokia, a lot of people out there feel comfortable switching to WP because of Nokia, not because Nokia's using WP. Sure, I can't claim that this is a majority or even significant number of people, but it's having an impact on the discussion (just ask around this forum).

    On the other hand, I think Microsoft also has a credible brand. Sure there have been some studies suggesting this, but when the Microsoft Store opened at Square One, I personally saw around 1000 or so people line up for the $399 Surface Pro. Sure, this was a cheap Surface Pro, but still, for something that should be pretty obscure to the market, it's pretty damn surprising to see so many lining up and being excited for the Surface. The Surface brand has some real weight.

    Now here's the thing... Logically, a "Microsoft Lumia" should be viable. We're merely putting two credible brands together and 1+1 = 2...

    Well, we don't know. In terms of the reality, the consumer market doesn't always make sense. I do foresee the risk of people just not sitting well with the vibe of a "Microsoft Lumia." Knowing Nokia and Microsoft, the name "Microsoft Lumia" does sound a little conflicting. Two good stories doesn't always equate to two compatible stories. The story behind Lumia may not work well without Nokia behind it, it's just too bittersweet.

    Alternative? I suggest introducing the Surface to the Windows Phone family.

    Windows Phone 8.1 marks a clean push to the market, an opportunity to start fresh. I'd much rather push a dreamy confident story behind a Surface Windows Phone than a bittersweet story about Lumia (without its old sensei Nokia).

    Moreover, it doesn't need to be an abrupt change, perhaps a gradual one.

    Start out with two Surface phone models for North America:

    1. A high-end "Surface 9" with a 41MP camera, super high-res screen, quad-core CPU, etc, etc. This would be the flagship device for everyone to see and talk about, the device to attract all the media and perceptual attention.

    2. A mid-end "Surface 7" with the same core specs as Moto G (i.e. CPU, RAM, HD screen, etc) and PureView camera that's a refined version of the one used on the Lumia 920. At $350 off-contract (and $99 on-contract), position this device that's accessible to those seeking a premium experience at a reasonable price.

    If it helps, Microsoft can keep the Surface phones in North America and other markets where Lumia hasn't done as well. They can test out the waters where Lumia *is* doing well by continuing to see if the brand has enough fuel in it to continue shining in those markets. As for North America, we know Nokia and Lumia haven't mattered as much as they should, so why not try Surface? After all, the Surface is a mobile brand and it seems people know about it. Why not take a shot?
    02-17-2014 02:57 AM
  2. gerzhwin's Avatar
    I am not quite sure if MSFT will be in need to market their phones as 'Surface Phone'.

    The Lumia brand is already known for good Windows Phone hardware, and looking at the footer of MSFT's website you can see they're marketing their own brands without adding 'Microsoft' to it. Even on the Surface's, Xbox's or Bing's website the brand name is not combined with the company's name.

    Here in Germany nobody says 'I want a Samsung Galaxy phone' or 'Look at that Apple iPhone'; the manufacturer's name is always left out.
    jomarr likes this.
    02-17-2014 03:13 AM
  3. Fade_z's Avatar
    Why not go the other way: Call all mobiles a Lumia, and all tablets surface. And You can even leave Microsoft Lumia out of the occasion, just call it a Lumia.
    02-17-2014 03:14 AM
  4. Fade_z's Avatar
    Also the example you gave about the first 2 surface phones are just unrealistic and mere copies of some Lumia's today
    02-17-2014 03:16 AM
  5. bilzkh's Avatar
    Why not go the other way: Call all mobiles a Lumia, and all tablets surface. And You can even leave Microsoft Lumia out of the occasion, just call it a Lumia.
    Sure, but that doesn't deal with the reality that calling it Lumia is bittersweet. Basically, it's nice that Microsoft can make phones now, but it feels 'weird' that Nokia is no longer part of that equation. I am not comfortable with pushing a brand that has that sense of uneasiness to it. Don't think of this in just terms of what makes sense, put yourself in the shoes of the consumer and the person who has to message the post-Nokia Lumia story. Having to tell people that Nokia is no longer a part of the project isn't a good story. It'd be better to spin it positively by saying something like, "...using the innovation and expertise acquired from Nokia, we are proud to introduce the first Surface device running Windows Phone 8.1 ... power and innovation, in the palm of your hand."

    The reality is that Surface is a mobile brand. Yes, separation between tablets and phones is a good idea, but it's not the only idea. We've just seen Nokia extend the Lumia branding to tablets. We see Sony doing the same with Xperia phones and tablets. We also see Samsung do it with the Galaxy brand. Not to mention Google and Nexus.

    I suggested Surface because it's an existing Microsoft brand and its applicable to phones. Moreover, it seems to have a little more weight in North America than the Lumia brand. You can get people to line up for a Surface (provided the pricing is right), but a Lumia? I don't know, can we say it's a brand people in Canada and U.S will cry over not seeing again?

    Also the example you gave about the first 2 surface phones are just unrealistic and mere copies of some Lumia's today
    Incorrect. There is no $350 Windows Phone with the specs of Moto G and PureView camera in one package. This is an important point. There is no Windows Phone out there that packs full out quality with reasonable pricing. Look, not everyone looking for a deal is on a $100 or less budget. There are people out there who want a somewhat premium experience at an affordable price, and it doesn't always mean sub-$200 or $150 pricing. For now, $350 seems like a pretty comfortable price point for what could basically be an iPhone C-series class phone.

    Secondly, sure, what if they are copies? So? One of my other points was to push Surface in North America (and other markets where Lumia isn't making as much of a dent) in lieu of Lumia. Maybe a solution could be to have different brands for different markets, automakers do it, why not Microsoft?
    02-17-2014 03:32 AM
  6. wuiyang's Avatar
    lumia are codename, this is the list of their code after code name: (eg: lumia xxxx, xxxx is the code)
    0xxx = phone, screen size below or equal to 4.5 inch (except nokia lumia 929)
    1xxx = phablat, screen size are 6 inch or above (except nokia lumia 1020)
    2xxx = tablet, screen size are more than 10.1 inch
    02-17-2014 06:27 AM
  7. bilzkh's Avatar
    lumia are codename, this is the list of their code after code name: (eg: lumia xxxx, xxxx is the code)
    0xxx = phone, screen size below or equal to 4.5 inch (except nokia lumia 929)
    1xxx = phablat, screen size are 6 inch or above (except nokia lumia 1020)
    2xxx = tablet, screen size are more than 10.1 inch
    The brand name - "Lumia" - is still the same across phones and tablets.
    02-17-2014 12:02 PM
  8. inteller's Avatar
    what needs to happen is Microsoft continue to sell Lumia through carriers and such across the world and give the rest of us who want a PURE WIndows Phone experience, free from carriers, contracts, exclusive bull**** a Surface phone sold DIRECTLY through Microsoft Stores. Just like Google does Nexus.
    02-17-2014 12:37 PM
  9. jhoff80's Avatar
    I'd still like to see a 'Surface phone' with a Wacom pen myself. Basically a Galaxy Note except on Windows, with a souped-up version of OneNote (more like the WinRT version, but adding some of the features that version is missing too.) I'd buy that immediately if it existed.
    02-17-2014 03:35 PM
  10. jordo_id's Avatar
    I understand the point you are making here, but if they do drop the "Lumia" name I certainly hope they come up with something other than "Surface Phone". Sounds really great for a tablet imo, but not a phone. Personally, I am interested to see what phone hardware Microsoft will bring, but I hope they bring a new name with it as well.
    02-17-2014 04:07 PM
  11. Fade_z's Avatar
    Sure, but that doesn't deal with the reality that calling it Lumia is bittersweet. Basically, it's nice that Microsoft can make phones now, but it feels 'weird' that Nokia is no longer part of that equation. I am not comfortable with pushing a brand that has that sense of uneasiness to it. Don't think of this in just terms of what makes sense, put yourself in the shoes of the consumer and the person who has to message the post-Nokia Lumia story. Having to tell people that Nokia is no longer a part of the project isn't a good story. It'd be better to spin it positively by saying something like, "...using the innovation and expertise acquired from Nokia, we are proud to introduce the first Surface device running Windows Phone 8.1 ... power and innovation, in the palm of your hand."

    The reality is that Surface is a mobile brand. Yes, separation between tablets and phones is a good idea, but it's not the only idea. We've just seen Nokia extend the Lumia branding to tablets. We see Sony doing the same with Xperia phones and tablets. We also see Samsung do it with the Galaxy brand. Not to mention Google and Nexus.

    I suggested Surface because it's an existing Microsoft brand and its applicable to phones. Moreover, it seems to have a little more weight in North America than the Lumia brand. You can get people to line up for a Surface (provided the pricing is right), but a Lumia? I don't know, can we say it's a brand people in Canada and U.S will cry over not seeing again?



    Incorrect. There is no $350 Windows Phone with the specs of Moto G and PureView camera in one package. This is an important point. There is no Windows Phone out there that packs full out quality with reasonable pricing. Look, not everyone looking for a deal is on a $100 or less budget. There are people out there who want a somewhat premium experience at an affordable price, and it doesn't always mean sub-$200 or $150 pricing. For now, $350 seems like a pretty comfortable price point for what could basically be an iPhone C-series class phone.

    Secondly, sure, what if they are copies? So? One of my other points was to push Surface in North America (and other markets where Lumia isn't making as much of a dent) in lieu of Lumia. Maybe a solution could be to have different brands for different markets, automakers do it, why not Microsoft?
    why is it so bittersweet to you? Nokia crew is still working on it and Lumia is a beautiful name standing out from the rest.Surface ssuitstablets but iIget nightmares agian if they call rthephones surface too, reminds me,of the old windows mobile where they pulled to much pc feel ooverto mobile.
    02-17-2014 04:38 PM
  12. Fade_z's Avatar
    Great.. The wpcentral app bugged on me and I couldn't see what I was typing for the latter part.
    Anyway, Lumia has made a name for itself and so has surface.
    But in our minds we connect names to objects and we don't want to switch it up to much.
    Also because it makes MSFT look bad, like they don't know what they're doing.

    I'm all in for keeping Nokia on it, but surface phone just doesn't add up for me..also because people always say phone after it.. I got a windows phone 8 surface phone 25..

    (Nokia) Lumia is known for being strong, trustworthy and good quality.
    02-17-2014 04:42 PM
  13. Fade_z's Avatar
    Also in the last part you say: "one of my other points was to push surface in north America ... Automakers do it, why not MSFT"

    This is first of all not in line with "one Microsoft" and secondly because it causes confusion and that is a killer when it comes to sales.(look at apple, easiest out there)

    Just like Nokia did with the naming of there phones, its not the easiest but its logical if you get it.
    02-17-2014 04:46 PM
  14. bilzkh's Avatar
    why is it so bittersweet to you? Nokia crew is still working on it and Lumia is a beautiful name standing out from the rest.Surface ssuitstablets but iIget nightmares agian if they call rthephones surface too, reminds me,of the old windows mobile where they pulled to much pc feel ooverto mobile.
    It's bittersweet because the story no longer includes what used to be an integral part of the brand, i.e. Nokia. Moving forward Microsoft will have to talk about how Lumia is no longer a part of Nokia, that's bittersweet. We didn't come to love Lumia because it is Lumia, but because of Nokia's work in building up the brand. Nokia is no longer part of the story, that's sad.

    Anyways, it doesn't need to be a long name, they could take the Google Nexus route, e.g. people will come to know certain numbers (e.g. 7 or 9) are phones and others (e.g. 10 and Pro) are tablets.
    02-17-2014 04:52 PM
  15. jomarr's Avatar
    The Lumia name is an institution to Windows Phones, renaming them would really not help at all. I doubt they'll make "surface phones" coexist with the Lumias. It's either one or the other and like a poster said above, Lumias for Phones, Surface for tablets. It's better that way for better distinction. We all know how poor Microsoft's marketing department is and naming both products one name would cause confusion among the general public like how they were confused with the Surface Pro 2 and RT. Let's face it, the public only listens to hearsay and to the staff of the stores they go to so.. that's not good.
    02-17-2014 11:28 PM
  16. neonspark's Avatar
    Until google sold motorola, I would have agreed to this. MSFT needs to sell nokia plain and simple. they cannot win without the OEMs. I think zune and surface proved it.
    02-18-2014 06:09 AM
  17. Fade_z's Avatar
    It's bittersweet because the story no longer includes what used to be an integral part of the brand, i.e. Nokia. Moving forward Microsoft will have to talk about how Lumia is no longer a part of Nokia, that's bittersweet. We didn't come to love Lumia because it is Lumia, but because of Nokia's work in building up the brand. Nokia is no longer part of the story, that's sad.

    Anyways, it doesn't need to be a long name, they could take the Google Nexus route, e.g. people will come to know certain numbers (e.g. 7 or 9) are phones and others (e.g. 10 and Pro) are tablets.
    Well most People don't have this kinda of a relationship with Nokia.
    Also Nokia is part of the story because it mobile division is now part of MSFT..
    Just leave out Nokia and let it be Lumia.

    When people ask me what phone iIhave they remember it by 3 thing:
    Nokia
    Lumia
    Windows phone/tiles.

    It would hurt the franchise alot if they ditched Lumia, because when I hear lumia I think about strong, sleek and solid phones.
    I think 920, 1020

    When I think surface phone I expect heat vans on either side and a kick stand.
    02-18-2014 04:22 PM

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