04-18-2014 08:38 PM
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  1. MikeSo's Avatar
    Verdict: Three steps forward, one step back. Loving the update, really missing the stuff they removed. It made the OS unique. Now it feels too much like androids app based BS when it comes to social media.
    Exactly how I feel. On the plus side, we might not have to wait for new features. On the minus side, those features will be buggy and crappy, just like people complain about Android. Yay?
    04-15-2014 10:54 AM
  2. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Exactly how I feel. On the plus side, we might not have to wait for new features. On the minus side, those features will be buggy and crappy, just like people complain about Android. Yay?
    To be honest, I already see just as much moaning about buggy features here as I do on Android forums.
    04-15-2014 02:08 PM
  3. A895's Avatar
    To be honest, I already see just as much moaning about buggy features here as I do on Android forums.
    Then again these are forums so of course you will hear more complaints, this is where we go for solutions, and discussions. To be even more honest, imore has the least complaining of bugginess but then again they are the least active forums.
    monso0n likes this.
    04-15-2014 02:43 PM
  4. ohgood's Avatar
    i like the update WP8.1 has superior futures unlike android
    Elaborate!
    04-15-2014 03:28 PM
  5. adam220891's Avatar
    No.

    Basic things continue to be impossible. File manager, direction list while navigating, legitimate brightness controls, etc. are still missing. Apps can still be tough to come by.

    Speed/price represents a significant value for me. I could not get the latest Android OS (at least an official release) and a quick running brand new Android phone for $60 (the price I paid for my 521). I believe this is why the higher end phones are not penetrating the market so well...the value is not there, and WP8 does not compete head to head when it comes to functionality and application support.
    04-15-2014 03:59 PM
  6. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    Every OS has their pros and cons. The cons that other OSes have bother me more than the cons WP has. And I like how WP works, and the features it offers. I have a spare Android phone, and an iPad, so I am allowed to judge these OSes. ;)
    04-15-2014 04:07 PM
  7. vlad0's Avatar
    MS was once the cat's meow in the mobile world with its Windows Mobile devices. They were worlds better than the BlackBerries of the day, the Palm OS Treos and the Symbian devices. .
    How were they better than Symbian smartphones ? Even to this day there are things I can do on Symbian which I can not do on WP, such as attaching a PDF file to an e-mail. The multitasking on Symbian is still superior, and it runs on hardware so old and slow.. WP won't even be able to boot.

    The reason Windows Mobile got killed in the market place was the fact that Pegasus (windows CE) was much heavier than Symbian.. that's why Nokia went with that instead of CE and the rest is history.

    Here: Symbian, The Secret History: Dark Star • The Register

    "At Comdex that year, Microsoft unveiled its Pegasus project, called Windows CE. It had signed up Casio and others to release Psion-like palmtops but they were poorly received. They were ungainly and couldnt match the performance or battery life of Psions machines. Nevertheless, fear of Microsoft was perceptible.

    We said to Nokia, the world thinks the solution is Microsoft. The US didnt know us they hadn't got a clue who Psion is. But the Nokias don't want to give their business to Microsoft, Randall remembers.


    When you read EPOC/Psion read Symbian.

    So Nokia didn't want to deal with MS for number of reasonsm but I think this

    "The sophistication and superiority of Epoc, compared to Windows CE, were evident to the pundits, who threw laurels at Psion's new machine. Psion users were used to a month on two AA batteries and the Series 5 very nearly matched that. But it had striven to match the flexibility of paper (Psion had viewed Filofax users as their traditional competition) with a 32bit world. Pictures could be embedded in a diary entry, for example."

    "When Psions engineers tested Windows CE on the same hardware as Psions own Epoc, they found the Microsoft software was four times as power hungry.

    "There's no way our engineers are going to go to Windows, piped up one attendee.




    Is one of the main reasons.. The difference in power consumption still holds true to this day, its just that at this point it doesn't matter because we have 3000 mah batts as standard and everyone is used to charging their phone once or even twice per 24hrs.

    This bit is the most important one, and it really shaped Microsoft's mobile efforts in the 90s going into the 00s. They knew that it was extremely important to get the major OEMs on board, but... Nokia killed that dream

    "We went to Nokia and told them we think we can spin Psion Software out of Psion. Nokia said 'Let's go to Ericsson'. We wanted to get Motorola involved - but we'll agree everyone's an equal citizen.

    Nokia and Ericsson visited Psion's London HQ on 7 April, 1998. After that, the project became known as Saturn - Nokia and Ericsson's code name.

    A month later, on 7 and 8 May, the details were thrashed out. Nokia, Ericsson and Psion represented by East, Wood and Christensen met for retreats at Nokia the small town that gave the Finnish giant its name. Much of Nokia's planning and R&D takes place at nearby Tampere, in a sprawling modernistic facility, but the company retains a Mansion in the old town.

    The decision to exclude Motorola from the planning was deliberate.

    The positive reception from Nokia and Ericsson and evident agreement between the three delighted Potter, who went on to change his mind, and gave the spin-out the full blessing."


    And after they got Motorola on board as well..

    The other task was for the new partners to break the news to Microsoft.

    The task of the courtesy call to Bill Gates fell to Nokias corporate executive vice president, and later CEO, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo.

    Kallasvuo told us it was the worst call of his career. Gates was like a baby throwing his toys out of his pram. He was screaming.


    Microsoft was left with HP, Casio, DELL, etc. They simply had NO chance against Ericsson and Nokia. It was a colossal blow to their strategy and Gates knew that..

    We all know how this panned out for Nokia.. sheer incompetence ran the system to the ground -> the iPhone -> panic mode -> major lossless -> Microsoft finally gets what they want and buys the whole fing thing.

    Its very important to understand the journey which led us to the Lumia line which we now enjoy. It wasn't pretty.
    04-15-2014 04:12 PM
  8. cckgz4's Avatar
    I can also T9 on my old Nokia flip phone, but can't do that on my 1020. Does that make it inferior?
    mosi76 likes this.
    04-15-2014 06:40 PM
  9. A895's Avatar
    No.

    Basic things continue to be impossible. File manager, direction list while navigating, legitimate brightness controls, etc. are still missing. Apps can still be tough to come by.

    Speed/price represents a significant value for me. I could not get the latest Android OS (at least an official release) and a quick running brand new Android phone for $60 (the price I paid for my 521). I believe this is why the higher end phones are not penetrating the market so well...the value is not there, and WP8 does not compete head to head when it comes to functionality and application support.
    For $30 more you can with the Moto G.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    04-15-2014 08:18 PM
  10. anony_mouse's Avatar
    For $30 more you can with the Moto G.
    Strongly recommended, excellent phone.
    mosi76 likes this.
    04-16-2014 01:09 AM
  11. Roderick Aspiras's Avatar
    I disagree.

    FileManager is not basic it is advanced because you are making a phone function more like a PC with phone and not a Phone with PC functionality.

    I think it is currently on par. Not everyone requires 100 apps on their phone. Most people still prefer dump phones because that's what they need call and text. It is only in the US that smartphones are overhyped but when you go out of US clearly there are more dumb phones that smartphones currently. I think it is misleading to buy a phone for its specs and number of apps. It boils down to preference and needs.

    Super geeks - Android
    Socialites - iPhone
    Whatever is left and Windows fanboys - WPhone



    No.

    Basic things continue to be impossible. File manager, direction list while navigating, legitimate brightness controls, etc. are still missing. Apps can still be tough to come by.

    Speed/price represents a significant value for me. I could not get the latest Android OS (at least an official release) and a quick running brand new Android phone for $60 (the price I paid for my 521). I believe this is why the higher end phones are not penetrating the market so well...the value is not there, and WP8 does not compete head to head when it comes to functionality and application support.
    Hildr likes this.
    04-16-2014 02:19 AM
  12. Hildr's Avatar
    I don't really care to have a WP on par with the other OS's my colleagues have. I just have an OS that do what I want, that's far enought, and that's what I answer to people that ask me "why?". I would never droped my feature phone for an iOS or an Android device, but WP looked so fresh =)

    More, even if WP is on par with Android and iOS, that will not drag people to something that adds nothing. The only things that can do that are the look, or really innovative features.

    Btw, my colleague that really dislike the new Windows flat colorful style, and so, the WP look, admited this morning that my L920 with the 3 columns and the wallscreen with tiles smartly placed looks far better than before, even if he doesn't like the vivid color of some tile. So, it gets close to change people minds, and that is far better than being on par I think =D
    cckgz4 likes this.
    04-16-2014 02:51 AM
  13. lexus232's Avatar
    IMO it's definitely on par when it comes to the needs of 90% of users. Some specific features are still missing, but they don't affect me personally. Now WP has everything I need and I don't even care about Android anymore.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    04-16-2014 06:03 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    I disagree.

    FileManager is not basic it is advanced because you are making a phone function more like a PC with phone and not a Phone with PC functionality.

    I think it is currently on par. Not everyone requires 100 apps on their phone. Most people still prefer dump phones because that's what they need call and text. It is only in the US that smartphones are overhyped but when you go out of US clearly there are more dumb phones that smartphones currently. I think it is misleading to buy a phone for its specs and number of apps. It boils down to preference and needs.

    Super geeks - Android
    Socialites - iPhone
    Whatever is left and Windows fanboys - WPhone
    Actually according to the latest Pew Research majority of Adults in the U.S. use smart phones. Out of all total cellphones (dumb and smart) Android is the most common type of smartphone type. As you say smartphone are preference. People use what they want, but in the end right NOW the mobile market is led by trends which causes smartphone makers such as Samsung and Apple to do very well. But smartphone nakers such as BlackBerry, and HTC (even Windows Phone) do poorly compared to them. Also, Android is not for super geeks, and socialites don't exclusively get an iPhone. File manager is basic seeing as that is functionality that is in ALL other platforms. A smartphone is supposed to be a pocket PC. You are right everyone does not NEED a 100 apps yet people continue to buy phones that have 100 apps.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    04-16-2014 06:30 AM
  15. meddyrainzo's Avatar
    Genuine question
    Isn't there a file picker in 8.1 similar to file manager?
    04-16-2014 07:12 AM
  16. adesonic's Avatar
    I think Microsoft have pretty much closed the gap, having said that, I think the new xbox music thing is a step (or 10) backwards as is the de-integration of the social stuff. It is all about preference though, I have tried several android phones and just cannot get on with them, as for iPhone, that is just too expensive for me (also find the screen size too small for my knackered eyes!). I am now heavily invested in the Microsoft eco system and my only hope is that Windows phone survives and that I am not forced down some other route!
    04-16-2014 07:15 AM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    How were they better than Symbian smartphones ? Even to this day there are things I can do on Symbian which I can not do on WP, such as attaching a PDF file to an e-mail. The multitasking on Symbian is still superior, and it runs on hardware so old and slow.. WP won't even be able to boot.

    The reason Windows Mobile got killed in the market place was the fact that Pegasus (windows CE) was much heavier than Symbian.. that's why Nokia went with that instead of CE and the rest is history.

    Here: Symbian, The Secret History: Dark Star € The Register

    "At Comdex that year, Microsoft unveiled its Pegasus project, called Windows CE. It had signed up Casio and others to release Psion-like palmtops – but they were poorly received. They were ungainly and couldn’t match the performance or battery life of Psion’s machines. Nevertheless, fear of Microsoft was perceptible.

    “We said to Nokia, the world thinks the solution is Microsoft. The US didn’t know us – they hadn't got a clue who Psion is. But the Nokias don't want to give their business to Microsoft,” Randall remembers.


    When you read EPOC/Psion read Symbian.

    So Nokia didn't want to deal with MS for number of reasonsm but I think this

    "The sophistication and superiority of Epoc, compared to Windows CE, were evident to the pundits, who threw laurels at Psion's new machine. Psion users were used to a month on two AA batteries – and the Series 5 very nearly matched that. But it had striven to match the flexibility of paper (Psion had viewed Filofax users as their traditional competition) with a 32bit world. Pictures could be embedded in a diary entry, for example."

    "When Psion’s engineers tested Windows CE on the same hardware as Psion’s own Epoc, they found the Microsoft software was four times as power hungry.

    "There's no way our engineers are going to go to Windows,” piped up one attendee.




    Is one of the main reasons.. The difference in power consumption still holds true to this day, its just that at this point it doesn't matter because we have 3000 mah batts as standard and everyone is used to charging their phone once or even twice per 24hrs.

    This bit is the most important one, and it really shaped Microsoft's mobile efforts in the 90s going into the 00s. They knew that it was extremely important to get the major OEMs on board, but... Nokia killed that dream

    "“We went to Nokia and told them we think we can spin Psion Software out of Psion. Nokia said 'Let's go to Ericsson'. We wanted to get Motorola involved - but we'll agree everyone's an equal citizen.”

    Nokia and Ericsson visited Psion's London HQ on 7 April, 1998. After that, the project became known as Saturn - Nokia and Ericsson's code name.

    A month later, on 7 and 8 May, the details were thrashed out. Nokia, Ericsson and Psion – represented by East, Wood and Christensen – met for retreats at Nokia – the small town that gave the Finnish giant its name. Much of Nokia's planning and R&D takes place at nearby Tampere, in a sprawling modernistic facility, but the company retains a Mansion in the old town.

    The decision to exclude Motorola from the planning was deliberate.

    The positive reception from Nokia and Ericsson – and evident agreement between the three – delighted Potter, who went on to change his mind, and gave the spin-out the full blessing."


    And after they got Motorola on board as well..

    The other task was for the new partners to break the news to Microsoft.

    The task of the courtesy call to Bill Gates fell to Nokia’s corporate executive vice president, and later CEO, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo.

    “Kallasvuo told us it was the worst call of his career. Gates was like a baby throwing his toys out of his pram. He was screaming.”


    Microsoft was left with HP, Casio, DELL, etc. They simply had NO chance against Ericsson and Nokia. It was a colossal blow to their strategy and Gates knew that..

    We all know how this panned out for Nokia.. sheer incompetence ran the system to the ground -> the iPhone -> panic mode -> major lossless -> Microsoft finally gets what they want and buys the whole fing thing.

    Its very important to understand the journey which led us to the Lumia line which we now enjoy. It wasn't pretty.
    Windows Mobile can't attach a .pdf to an email? I think you're confusing WM with Windows Phone. WM had REAL Outlook and you could attach multiple files of different formats. Oh by the way, there is a mail client for WP7/7.5/8 that allows attachments, MailPlus.

    Mail For Exchange and RoadSync do not come close to matching Outlook Mobile. With all it's clunkiness, WM was much easier to navigate than the menu-laden mess that was Symbian. It wasn't until Anna that a portrait qwerty even became available. Symbian was good, but not better than WM.
    04-16-2014 03:25 PM
  18. AndrewL920's Avatar
    Impossible Wp8.1 is still inferior
    04-16-2014 03:37 PM
  19. mjrtoo's Avatar
    Windows Mobile can't attach a .pdf to an email? I think you're confusing WM with Windows Phone. WM had REAL Outlook and you could attach multiple files of different formats. Oh by the way, there is a mail client for WP7/7.5/8 that allows attachments, MailPlus.

    Mail For Exchange and RoadSync do not come close to matching Outlook Mobile. With all it's clunkiness, WM was much easier to navigate than the menu-laden mess that was Symbian. It wasn't until Anna that a portrait qwerty even became available. Symbian was good, but not better than WM.
    Seriously?
    04-16-2014 09:05 PM
  20. Ickis99's Avatar
    I really like WP most of all available Phones as for look and feel and such. Alas, since there is still no VPN Support, for me its not inferior, its completely useless.
    04-17-2014 02:49 AM
  21. TJccBR's Avatar
    No file browser and Office on iOS and Android is more robust, so I am still using my S3 to work, other than the app excuse still makes sanse.
    Last edited by TJccBR; 04-17-2014 at 03:54 AM.
    04-17-2014 03:14 AM
  22. A895's Avatar
    I really like WP most of all available Phones as for look and feel and such. Alas, since there is still no VPN Support, for me its not inferior, its completely useless.
    There is VPN support in 8.1

    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
    04-17-2014 03:29 AM
  23. Ickis99's Avatar
    There is VPN support in 8.1
    I should have been more precise. There is a new option that is called "VPN" but since it is still impossible to connect to Basic Company VPNs its no VPN Support in my book (No PPTP, no SSTP, no L2TP). As comparison, every Android - User in my compancy can connect to both our RAS-Servers (SSTP and L2TP), every iOS User can do the same, the few Blackberry Users we have can connect without Problems, and i can connect too, WITH MY ANTIQUE WM 6.5 DEVICE.

    And now take a wild guess which are the only devices that cant connect to any of our Remote Access Servers. So, VPN Support is still my number one requested Feature for future Windows Phone Releases.

    Or maybe i have missed something (and the other users on this Forum with the same request)?
    Last edited by Ickis99; 04-17-2014 at 06:58 AM.
    04-17-2014 04:02 AM
  24. A895's Avatar
    I should have been more precise. There is a new option that is called "VPN" but since it is still impossible to connect to Basic Company VPNs its no VPN Support in my book (No PPTP, no SSTP, no L2TP). As comparison, every Android - User in my compancy can connect to both our RAS-Servers (SSTP and L2TP), every iOS User can do the same, the few Blackberry Users we have can connect without Problems, and i can connect too, WITH MY ANTIQUE WM 6.5 DEVICE.

    And now take a wild guess which are the only devices that cant connect to any of our Remote Access Servers. So, VPN Support is still my number one requested Feature for future Windows Phone Releases.

    Or maybe i have missed something (and the other users on this Forum with the same request)?
    Ahh I understand. Things like this and a file manager are the little things that would be appreciated.

    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
    04-17-2014 09:20 AM
  25. tgp's Avatar
    Ahh I understand. Things like this and a file manager are the little things that would be appreciated.
    The 8.1 update makes WP very good as a consumer device, but it's issues like these, and also the attachment emailing deal, that make WP a very poor business tool.
    A895 likes this.
    04-17-2014 09:44 AM
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