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04-09-2014 08:20 AM
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  1. linking1990's Avatar
    Could you throw in a few examples of leaks that were documented and aren't in WP8.1?
    Here are some examples of what I expected and leaks confirmed having:

    1. A file picker, similar to the one found in Windows 8.1, with better file management (ability to send and receive files other than pictures and Office documents, with apps ability to access those files and attach/share them within).
    2. Actionable notifications: it was mentioned many times that in the action center, you would be able to interact with notifications, for instance: replying to a text message withing the action center), this is similar to what Android currently offers in this department.
    3. Making a full backup of your phone (similar to Windows 8), a backup that mirrors your phone and restores it completely the way it was, it lays your tiles with apps that aren't even downloaded yet, and whenever you press on one it downloads the app from the store and restores it's data.
    4. A new Facebook app that is designed by Facebook itself.
    5. Changing your default SMS app. No one even knows how this works, but it was promised through leaks but never delivered.
    6. Muting threads in the messaging hub.
    7. No mention of the new Bing search app, similar to what is found in Windows 8, it performs a hero search of popular keys of interest ( a city, an artist, etc..)
    8. Not so much enhancements to the People hub and the built-in Facebook and Twitter integration.
    9. No tab-handling enhancements in IE 11, it's still the same wicked way of handling them.( I read some where that there were enhancements in that regard, and I am not talking about in private tabs or them being included in the multi-tasking pane.
    10. No mention of the USB OTG ability.
    11. No Bluetooth keyboard support.
    12. No data shortcut in the system apps toggles.
    13. Some of the toggles like Wifi isn't even a TOGGLE! It's just a shortcut for the app.
    14. Not so much enhancements to the default Xbox music app (still no scrubbing).
    15. The default media player haven't got all of the tools to make it full featured (there was a screenshot earlier that showed a fully featured media player).
    16. The update was expected to reach phones in June, now with these vague statements, it can hit them somewhere around October!
    17. I expected that since Semantic Zoom API was included, that it would be also available on the Start Screen, but I guess this isn't the case.
    18. No smart dialer, though there is enhancements and speed-dial things, but a smart dialer isn't one of them.
    19. Cortana is a work in progress, through my estimation, it still needs a year to two years before being really usable.
    20. There was a mention that many of the core apps (including the store and the people hub) where changed to being un-related to the core system itself, so even the store can be updated through app-updates. This was meant to enhance the system reliability on those core apps as updating them won't take a year or so with each OS update. There was no mention of that except the Calendar app.
    21. A color picker in themes. Though this may sound stupid, but it shows that there are still some basic stuff that aren't getting done yet. I know you can achieve this now by selecting a background that is a solid color, but why do we have to go this route to do a simple thing that is already there in WP registry. Like COMEON!


    ​There are also more stuff but I can't remember all of them, I'll keep updating this comment for the things that was suggested through leaks but didn't make it (my full list of needed stuff in 8.1 is far, far bigger than this one).
    Last edited by linking1990; 04-05-2014 at 07:10 AM.
    04-05-2014 06:34 AM
  2. three_thoughts's Avatar
    8.1 will be out in April (probably the 14th) for anyone who wants it. How high do your expectations have to be to complain about that? I'm assuming that if you're moaning about it on a forum such as this, then it must mean a lot to you, so just go sign up to the developer preview and you get all the features in a week, not 6 months.
    04-05-2014 06:53 AM
  3. linking1990's Avatar
    8.1 will be out in April (probably the 14th) for anyone who wants it. How high do your expectations have to be to complain about that? I'm assuming that if you're moaning about it on a forum such as this, then it must mean a lot to you, so just go sign up to the developer preview and you get all the features in a week, not 6 months.
    You must know that I am a USER, not a DEVELOPER. I wouldn't install a work in progress OS with many bugs and a store that doesn't download apps so I can get my hands on 8.1, not to mention all the apps that still needs to be updated to take advantage of it's capabilities. I was hoping that Microsoft would finally go the shut-up-and-ship module that Apple follows, and that this update was already in the hands of important developers and they worked on it with their apps for a while, but sadly, this isn't the case. Microsoft copies Apple in lots of ways, but they always copy them in the bad stuff they do, never in the good ones.
    04-05-2014 07:06 AM
  4. mjrtoo's Avatar
    Microsoft copies apple? I'd say the exact opposite, take a look at history...
    04-05-2014 07:13 AM
  5. peacock93's Avatar
    You must know that I am a USER, not a DEVELOPER. I wouldn't install a work in progress OS with many bugs and a store that doesn't download apps so I can get my hands on 8.1, not to mention all the apps that still needs to be updated to take advantage of it's capabilities. I was hoping that Microsoft would finally go the shut-up-and-ship module that Apple follows, and that this update was already in the hands of important developers and they worked on it with their apps for a while, but sadly, this isn't the case. Microsoft copies Apple in lots of ways, but they always copy them in the bad stuff they do, never in the good ones.
    Build is where the developers get the new OS. Over the next couple of months they will play with it and update their apps. You won't see an official release to the public on non-new phones for a couple of months. The developer preview is exactly that, a preview.
    04-05-2014 07:18 AM
  6. three_thoughts's Avatar
    You must know that I am a USER, not a DEVELOPER. I wouldn't install a work in progress OS with many bugs and a store that doesn't download apps so I can get my hands on 8.1, not to mention all the apps that still needs to be updated to take advantage of it's capabilities. I was hoping that Microsoft would finally go the shut-up-and-ship module that Apple follows, and that this update was already in the hands of important developers and they worked on it with their apps for a while, but sadly, this isn't the case. Microsoft copies Apple in lots of ways, but they always copy them in the bad stuff they do, never in the good ones.
    Well the preview for developers for gdr3 was the final build that was RTM. No bugs were reported. And you can download apps with the preview. The whole reason for the "developer" (read enthusiast) preview is so that anyone can download the updates without carriers having to take months to test and release them. They aren't going to allow anyone to so easily download and install it and it be a semi functional bug ridden unfinished piece of software.

    As for apps that need to be updated, that is down to the developers not MS. The SDK was released to developers about a month ago for exactly the reason you state, so that they could work on it before it was released.

    I seriously think you and everyone else is just complaining for the sake of complaining. And you shouldn't take rumours seriously and then criticize them for not implementing things that were only ever rumours.
    04-05-2014 07:25 AM
  7. linking1990's Avatar
    Microsoft copies apple? I'd say the exact opposite, take a look at history...
    I wasn't speaking software-wise, but rather newer philosophy-wise in doing things. Look, Microsoft had Windows Mobile, which if it continued developing would be where Android is today, Android was the new Windows Mobile, it continued where Microsoft left. They saw how well the iPhone was doing at that time, so they scrubbed everything they had and started from scratch. They chose a new model, a basic one actually, just because Apple did and was successful. They forgot their roots, and started doing what the others did.

    I'll give you some examples so you'll know what I am talking about:

    The iPhone was so basic that it had no ringtone selecting, no notification center, no smart dialer, no quick toggles, no file manager, no Office capabilities, no extensive camera app, not customization what so ever, no Media scrubbing, a basic media player.. The list can go on and on, Microsoft had so many of those already, but they scrubbed them, and many of those are retaining these days as when Apple does them, they do the same. The iPhone gets a notification center, hell we will start working on it now! It's now more customizable? Yes, this is where we should focus! It's not that simple anymore? Yes, neither are we (are going to be eventually). Believe me, if I sat with you I'll give you so many examples of the things that they could easily have, and did have, but scrubbed in the sake of what's happening with Apple design and software teams.

    There was an article that day on Pocketnow by Adam Lein, he was talking about how basic is the newer Office apps, and comparing them to the versions that Windows Mobile had before 6 years, do you know that the Office app was far, far, far more functional than the one we currently have five years later?

    FYI, I am one passionate Microsoft fan, I just state what is true to my eye.
    bsayegh and DavidinCT like this.
    04-05-2014 07:28 AM
  8. Citizen X's Avatar
    May I remind you we still cant edit an email before forwarding? Or attach PDFs to email? Or attach multiple docs to email?
    Most people can live with that. I definitely would like those features but I wouldn't use them the majority of the time. I would rather MSFT take their time and do it right vs rushing out a buggy mess.

    If MSFT wants to make more inroads into enterprise they need to add those features. As for the average iphone user I have no recollection of any of them emailing me a pdf from their cell phones. Heck I taught one of them how to take a screen shot. They owned at least three or four iphones and they never even knew a screen shot was possible. So you really can't chalk their multiyear obsession with iphones up to a niche feature here and there.
    04-05-2014 07:33 AM
  9. linking1990's Avatar
    Well the preview for developers for gdr3 was the final build that was RTM. No bugs were reported. And you can download apps with the preview. The whole reason for the "developer" (read enthusiast) preview is so that anyone can download the updates without carriers having to take months to test and release them. They aren't going to allow anyone to so easily download and install it and it be a semi functional bug ridden unfinished piece of software.

    As for apps that need to be updated, that is down to the developers not MS. The SDK was released to developers about a month ago for exactly the reason you state, so that they could work on it before it was released.

    I seriously think you and everyone else is just complaining for the sake of complaining. And you shouldn't take rumours seriously and then criticize them for not implementing things that were only ever rumours.
    I understand and know about all of what you said, there is nothing new to me, but then, you didn't seem to understand what my first post is about; It was just stating the frustrations from the leaks (Not the rumors) about WP 8.1, including when it will hit the users phones, all the features that were found in the core that isn't yet accessible or useable, and won't be until 8.2 or 9. I know I got carried away a lot by those leaks, but then, who wouldn't be after waiting a whole year and a half (still counting) to get a respectable update?

    What bugs me the most, is that Windows 8 already has so much more than what WP is even with this update, eventhough it was launched on the basis of WP and was launched later on, but now it's far more advanced, and going forward at a faster pace. This is my big frustration, is that I know Microsoft can do more, but they aren't.
    savagelizards likes this.
    04-05-2014 07:36 AM
  10. Citizen X's Avatar
    I wasn't speaking software-wise, but rather newer philosophy-wise in doing things. Look, Microsoft had Windows Mobile, which if it continued developing would be where Android is today, Android was the new Windows Mobile, it continued where Microsoft left. They saw how well the iPhone was doing at that time, so they scrubbed everything they had and started from scratch. They chose a new model, a basic one actually, just because Apple did and was successful. They forgot their roots, and started doing what the others did.
    Andriod is a mess.

    Simpler=smoother running.

    MSFT started over and simplified because it wanted a rock solid base to work from. Adding features incrementally ensures the features work and you don't have lag and lockups. Windows mobile was being all things to all people... which is never a good strategy.
    04-05-2014 07:37 AM
  11. linking1990's Avatar
    Andriod is a mess.

    Simpler=smoother running.

    MSFT started over and simplified because it wanted a rock solid base to work from. Adding features incrementally ensures the features work and you don't have lag and lockups. Windows mobile was being all things to all people... which is never a good strategy.
    You must understand that there is a fine line between simplicity and functionality. Engineering-wise talking, this is one of the basis of decisions, functional VS simple. It has to come to a decision eventually between those two, but WP seems to take simplicity every time. They are now going the functional way, but they wasted so much time at it being simple, that it found itself way late in this race. If you wanna know what I am talking about, just flip your phone in the messaging hub, or in IE, or settings, all of your screen space is wasted, doing this is supposed to enhance your experience, but it never does.

    ​Windows 8.1 is considered simple, but yet has a lot more functionality than WP. Simple isn't having a black background only and simple fonts, and they are realizing this only know, that's because they were following Apple earlier, but now iOS is more advanced, and now they figured which way to go next. That is why we have been playing catch-up, rather than leading in the mobile area.
    04-05-2014 07:45 AM
  12. psgenious's Avatar
    I thought that wp 8.1 will only contain a notification centre and some bug fixes..
    but the time passes and feature of wp8.1 started getting leaked.
    and i was surprized with a lot of feature goes out of my expectations!
    i am very excited to get the developer ppreview.
    04-05-2014 08:27 AM
  13. Citizen X's Avatar
    ​Windows 8.1 is considered simple, but yet has a lot more functionality than WP.
    I don't know who considers Windows 8.1 "simple." And my Windows Phone is way more rock solid than my Dell Venue 8 Pro. Windows 8.1 has a lot of functionality but it also has a lot of quirks... as is the same with every desktop operating system. When I have time and a 1080p monitor and full keyboard and mouse I can deal with the issues that pop up every so often with a full desktop OS. I don't have time to deal with that on a phone.

    Simple isn't having a black background only and simple fonts, and they are realizing this only know, that's because they were following Apple earlier, but now iOS is more advanced, and now they figured which way to go next. That is why we have been playing catch-up, rather than leading in the mobile area.
    Windows Phone has been "playing catch-up" because they started later. That's it. But you also have to actually use an iphone before you can compare it to a Windows Phone. All my windows phones have never met a wifi router they didn't like... not so for my friends' iphones. Apple can't even get wifi right in 2014. And what about cameras? Have you seen the iphone camera app? I use raw, manual focus, and exposure bias all the time. None of these features are available on the iphone. Well the manual focus is but it's not the same as the Windows Phone manual focus that gives you more control.

    I think Windows Phone fills an important niche. If you want completely standardized locked down then get an iphone. If you want an all things to all people phone get andriod. If you want something in the middle get a Windows Phone.

    Just remeber this it is 2014 and apple has NEVER made a 1080p display of any sort for its phone line. So who is "playing catch up"?
    04-05-2014 08:48 AM
  14. savagelizards's Avatar
    Windows Phone has been "playing catch-up" because they started later. That's it.
    They didn't start later. They started first.

    I am a longtime user of Microsoft products, and I am really happy with my Surface Pro. They build great hardware, even if they took a year to learn how to message the product effectively (show what it does instead of showing dancers clicking and unclicking the covers). My comments here are intended to recognize what was done wrong, not to bash Microsoft.

    That's why a lot of what's lacking in the OS is inexcusable on Microsoft's part. They had a ten year head start, and they don't get a free pass for deciding that they needed a mulligan. Everything they learned from building WM was still useful in regards to demand for features. They never restored functionality they had already developed, and that is why they are so far behind.

    Hopefully 8.1 will get them (mostly) caught up, but only for now. Microsoft needs to be thinking about what they need get out front. Cortana might be better that Siri, we will see, but it's a catch-up feature nonetheless. I agree that for WP 8.1 to be competitive it needs to be Windows 8.1 on a phone, not WP 8.

    That's the true way forward for Microsoft.
    linking1990 likes this.
    04-05-2014 10:08 AM
  15. flyingsolid's Avatar
    ... Also can anyone please tell me why the HECK for VPN there is only IKEv2 authentication type??? I mean comeon. Most use IPSEC or PPTP. ...
    Is this true? This would be a good case of expectation vs reality. I was hoping for IPsec and IKEv2 at least and maybe OpenVPN and PPTP if the skies opened up.
    04-05-2014 10:14 AM
  16. lkishor's Avatar
    here are some screenshots for windows phone 8.1 taken from emulator released with visual studio update 2 RC, fell free to check these here http://1drv.ms/1dXUGHU
    04-05-2014 10:24 AM
  17. Ankit Nawlakha's Avatar
    May I remind you we still cant edit an email before forwarding? Or attach PDFs to email? Or attach multiple docs to email?
    Perhaps Windows Phone 8.1 can solve these issues.. Relax..!
    Windows Phone 8.1 is still a week away from us.!!
    Derz no harm in being Positive.!! :)
    Jazmac likes this.
    04-05-2014 10:25 AM
  18. Jazmac's Avatar
    You must know that I am a USER, not a DEVELOPER. I wouldn't install a work in progress OS with many bugs and a store that doesn't download apps so I can get my hands on 8.1, not to mention all the apps that still needs to be updated to take advantage of it's capabilities. I was hoping that Microsoft would finally go the shut-up-and-ship module that Apple follows, and that this update was already in the hands of important developers and they worked on it with their apps for a while, but sadly, this isn't the case. Microsoft copies Apple in lots of ways, but they always copy them in the bad stuff they do, never in the good ones.
    That is one extensive list but for the life of me I don't see how much of what you are talking about is something average smart phone buyers are clamoring to get hold of. In fact, no one I know even mentions those capability. They make calls, read mail, check weather, text their friends, play candy crush and look at FB. That is about it. They don't work for The Verge where they pretend their phones have to double as a desktop computer. These are average smart phone buyers.

    You say you want that entire list to know you are up to par. Also something I don't completely believe but I'll take you at your word. Much of that I read in your list are in the "nice to have class" of features. But even for those OS that can do these things, I can bet a fraction of average phone users want any of it or know it even exists. Microsoft built in a good chunk of the things we requested in 8.1 and much of what they are doing at this stage of the game, IMHO, is under the hood for developers.

    Microsoft is playing the long game like they always do. They don't build in features like blinking your eyes to change web pages, swiping your hand to move a web page and other gimmicky garbage Sammy did and for what? Showmanship. Nothing more. I know a few with those phones at work and I have never seen anyone use them. In the airports, waiting rooms, wherever I spot these Sammy devices, I have seen NO ONE using them. Its fluff.

    Personally 8.1 update is a game changer. Cortana is off to a good start and will only get better as development fleshes out over time. Notification is also something I wanted in this OS. We got it Those core features are what people use. Facebook app written by Facebook is pure folly. Facebook can build or it can be built by another dev. Either way, you get a platform that can run a Facebook app. You should spend time in this ecosystem and not those others. I'll feel so much more complete that what you think about that greener grass you think you see.
    AzmoD3uS and RafRol like this.
    04-05-2014 10:30 AM
  19. Ankit Nawlakha's Avatar
    Here are some examples of what I expected and leaks confirmed having:

    [LIST=1][*]A file picker, similar to the one found in Windows 8.1, with better file management (ability to send and receive files other than pictures and Office documents, with apps ability to access those files and attach/share them within).
    Are u sure about this..??
    Here take a look at this thread.. http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...le-picker.html
    04-05-2014 10:32 AM
  20. Ankit Nawlakha's Avatar
    That is one extensive list but for the life of me I don't see how much of what you are talking about is something average smart phone buyers are clamoring to get hold of. In fact, no one I know even mentions those capability. They make calls, read mail, check weather, text their friends, play candy crush and look at FB. That is about it. They don't work for The Verge where they pretend their phones have to double as a desktop computer. These are average smart phone buyers.

    You say you want that entire list to know you are up to par. Also something I don't completely believe but I'll take you at your word. Much of that I read in your list are in the "nice to have class" of features. But even for those OS that can do these things, I can bet a fraction of average phone users want any of it or know it even exists. Microsoft built in a good chunk of the things we requested in 8.1 and much of what they are doing at this stage of the game, IMHO, is under the hood for developers.

    Microsoft is playing the long game like they always do. They don't build in features like blinking your eyes to change web pages, swiping your hand to move a web page and other gimmicky garbage Sammy did and for what? Showmanship. Nothing more. I know a few with those phones at work and I have never seen anyone use them. In the airports, waiting rooms, wherever I spot these Sammy devices, I have seen NO ONE using them. Its fluff.

    Personally 8.1 update is a game changer. Cortana is off to a good start and will only get better as development fleshes out over time. Notification is also something I wanted in this OS. We got it Those core features are what people use. Facebook app written by Facebook is pure folly. Facebook can build or it can be built by another dev. Either way, you get a platform that can run a Facebook app. You should spend time in this ecosystem and not those others. I'll feel so much more complete that what you think about that greener grass you think you see.
    THIS..!! I can file suit against you for stealing my thought(IF that's Possible) LoL..Just Kidding Because this is wat i was thinking ryt now.!
    Jazmac likes this.
    04-05-2014 10:35 AM
  21. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Perhaps Windows Phone 8.1 can solve these issues.. Relax..!
    Windows Phone 8.1 is still a week away from us.!!
    Derz no harm in being Positive.!! :)
    There is optimism and then there is reality. As much as I appreciate your optimism, such features wont magically make it into the OS in a week.
    04-05-2014 10:49 AM
  22. DreadVenom's Avatar
    After spending some time reading some of the comments people have written here about 8.1 im left scratching my head and thinking WTF did people want. I for one am stoked with what i have seen from build and even today reveals are popping up that weren't even mentioned at the conference. Remember people build is for devs and not all of them would have had a chance to play with the OS. For me build was the tip of a massive iceberg that MS has planned for its mobile os and i expect some of the things people here a moaning about the os "lacking" will be developed by the talented devs that support the platform. Look at the new lock screen that Rudy and MS developed. Did any of you expect that?? Thought not, just be patient people, this isn't a sprint but a marathon.
    04-05-2014 11:22 AM
  23. prasath1234's Avatar
    May I remind you we still cant edit an email before forwarding? Or attach PDFs to email? Or attach multiple docs to email?
    Then for what reasons laptop is there.editing mail could 've done with windows 8 pc

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    rockstarzzz likes this.
    04-05-2014 11:36 AM
  24. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Then for what reasons laptop is there.editing mail could 've done with windows 8 pc

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    So all iPhone and Android users, heck Blackberry and Symbian AND Nokia X users also carry a laptop with them?

    Ah, that makes sense, smartphones aren't capable to edit emails so we all should carry laptops to edit otherwise reply using phone!
    Ek-Balam and BIGPADDY like this.
    04-05-2014 12:03 PM
  25. Arka1412's Avatar
    Here are some examples of what I expected and leaks confirmed having:

    1. A file picker, similar to the one found in Windows 8.1, with better file management (ability to send and receive files other than pictures and Office documents, with apps ability to access those files and attach/share them within).
    2. Actionable notifications: it was mentioned many times that in the action center, you would be able to interact with notifications, for instance: replying to a text message withing the action center), this is similar to what Android currently offers in this department.
    3. Making a full backup of your phone (similar to Windows 8), a backup that mirrors your phone and restores it completely the way it was, it lays your tiles with apps that aren't even downloaded yet, and whenever you press on one it downloads the app from the store and restores it's data.
    4. A new Facebook app that is designed by Facebook itself.
    5. Changing your default SMS app. No one even knows how this works, but it was promised through leaks but never delivered.
    6. Muting threads in the messaging hub.
    7. No mention of the new Bing search app, similar to what is found in Windows 8, it performs a hero search of popular keys of interest ( a city, an artist, etc..)
    8. Not so much enhancements to the People hub and the built-in Facebook and Twitter integration.
    9. No tab-handling enhancements in IE 11, it's still the same wicked way of handling them.( I read some where that there were enhancements in that regard, and I am not talking about in private tabs or them being included in the multi-tasking pane.
    10. No mention of the USB OTG ability.
    11. No Bluetooth keyboard support.
    12. No data shortcut in the system apps toggles.
    13. Some of the toggles like Wifi isn't even a TOGGLE! It's just a shortcut for the app.
    14. Not so much enhancements to the default Xbox music app (still no scrubbing).
    15. The default media player haven't got all of the tools to make it full featured (there was a screenshot earlier that showed a fully featured media player).
    16. The update was expected to reach phones in June, now with these vague statements, it can hit them somewhere around October!
    17. I expected that since Semantic Zoom API was included, that it would be also available on the Start Screen, but I guess this isn't the case.
    18. No smart dialer, though there is enhancements and speed-dial things, but a smart dialer isn't one of them.
    19. Cortana is a work in progress, through my estimation, it still needs a year to two years before being really usable.
    20. There was a mention that many of the core apps (including the store and the people hub) where changed to being un-related to the core system itself, so even the store can be updated through app-updates. This was meant to enhance the system reliability on those core apps as updating them won't take a year or so with each OS update. There was no mention of that except the Calendar app.
    21. A color picker in themes. Though this may sound stupid, but it shows that there are still some basic stuff that aren't getting done yet. I know you can achieve this now by selecting a background that is a solid color, but why do we have to go this route to do a simple thing that is already there in WP registry. Like COMEON!


    ​There are also more stuff but I can't remember all of them, I'll keep updating this comment for the things that was suggested through leaks but didn't make it (my full list of needed stuff in 8.1 is far, far bigger than this one).
    Thanks man.U just nailed it..I second you in everything you have mentioned..
    04-05-2014 12:37 PM
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