The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
11-01-2014 12:01 PM
160 1234 ...
tools
  1. neo158's Avatar
    All I will say is this:

    Do we want WP to become WinDroid?
    No

    Do we want Android and iPhone users to switch?
    Yes

    How do we get them to switch?
    Make them feel comfortable on our platform

    How do we make them feel comfortable?
    Give them the same features they had on Android and iPhone e.g. Action Centre in place of a Notification Shade, same functionality just a different name
    05-25-2014 06:31 PM
  2. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    You make good points. I like a lot of us were WP7 users. WP sold me on their metro style presentation, big lower case titles that wrapped around the presentation. Most of what made WP special is still there. People hub, Me tile, etc. Some things had to change. Cortana is amazing and only helps WP. The notification center helps but its not a necessity. Still its a good feature to have. We all know why the me tile integration was changed, and that ti ensure the experience with the apps don't lag when updates are released. Bottom line if you think Windows has morphed into some rendition of Apple or Android feel free to migrate to one of them and then ask yourself again.
    b23h likes this.
    05-25-2014 07:00 PM
  3. jongthechemist's Avatar
    All I will say is this:

    Do we want WP to become WinDroid?
    No

    Do we want Android and iPhone users to switch?
    Yes

    How do we get them to switch?
    Make them feel comfortable on our platform

    How do we make them feel comfortable?
    Give them the same features they had on Android and iPhone e.g. Action Centre in place of a Notification Shade, same functionality just a different name
    But if they're the same why choose WP over Android? WP can stay on its own path giving something similar but different, continue to innovate and inspire innovation instead of joining the linear path that is app-centric iOS and Android. WP popularized flat UI, introduced integrated fb messaging, centralized social media, introduced dynamic live tiles, combined music and app store, ...
    05-25-2014 07:12 PM
  4. fdalbor's Avatar
    No offence to anyone; but what is wrong with WP8 becomming Android. I hate to say the obvious; but Android owns more market share than all the others put togeather so they much be doing something right. I have 4 WP8 phones; but my three tablets are Android. If it happens, I can live with it; one way or the other.
    05-25-2014 07:26 PM
  5. Jonnie LasVegas's Avatar
    Windows Phone is just going back to its Windows Mobile roots.
    guillams likes this.
    05-25-2014 07:49 PM
  6. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    I believe that one way or the other, all mobile operating systems are going to look quit the same.
    They just work different
    @ starters, they al got the basic elements.
    And they all in the race of fast, faster and fastest
    Its a healthy competition, but for basic use just a little overdone.
    About the looks and feels, i believe that has something to do to keep the users happy.
    A lot of users jump ship from Droid ( or Ios ) and asking for options that WP lacks.
    I think thats a good thing, but what more is there and what is there yet to come ( also counts for IOS and Droid ).

    Ios Droid and WP ( and the smaller players ) they al have a homescreen filled with shortcuts
    They all have a list of apps to choose from or to place on the start/home screen, it just looks different but still they are there.
    Each has there own store for apps
    Hardware; Phone, cam, screen, gps, wifi, data etc etc...........they got them all.

    In comparison with cars, al cars do and work the same, and some almost look the same.
    They got a gear, steeringwheel, tires, doors, some have stereo and gps.
    But the one has a Diesel, Gasoline or Liquefied Petroleum Gas engine.

    Al looks the same, except under the hood,
    just like phones.
    Guytronic likes this.
    05-25-2014 07:50 PM
  7. neo158's Avatar
    But if they're the same why choose WP over Android? WP can stay on its own path giving something similar but different, continue to innovate and inspire innovation instead of joining the linear path that is app-centric iOS and Android. WP popularized flat UI, introduced integrated fb messaging, centralized social media, introduced dynamic live tiles, combined music and app store, ...
    I didn't say the same, I said features which is a little different to a straight up clone of Android. WP still has the Modern UI with its Live Tiles and the Social Extensibility Framework, that's just two of the unique things in WP.
    b23h, metalchick719 and forked like this.
    05-25-2014 08:06 PM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I find it hard to believe that people are complaining about WP evolving. Yes, evolving. If I had a nickel for every post complaining about iOS being stale I'd be on my private island smokin' a Churchill and sippin' some Jack. You can't have it both ways, either remain in a perfect state and become stale or evolve. I'd also like a nickel for every complaint about the lack of a notification center. I think most of the changes have been for the better and necessary for wider acceptance.

    I do agree about the speed of WP8 and I've been one of the louder voices on these boards regarding WP7 being faster and smoother. But there's no going back. WP7 didn't sell well and change was necessary. Do we like them all? No, but it's better than ending up like webOS. I, for one, don't want to be a part of a dead OS relying on a small but dedicated group of fans for support.
    05-25-2014 08:20 PM
  9. dennisfang1's Avatar
    No Microsoft is immersing the features of android into its OS,that's why we are getting this feeling...
    Adding features is fine, but they're loosing focus, and are thus neglecting what WP was about, what it stood for and what we loved about it. Lets face it, we bought a Windows Phone for its gorgeous UI design, the beautiful typography, its smoothness, the hubs, the live tiles, the integrated experience, and they are compromising on all of them in the search of apps and features
    05-25-2014 08:20 PM
  10. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    Windows Phone is becoming......Windows, not Android. Every version of Windows has had some UI changes, some minor, some major. There are changes some like and others don't like. Many people thought the extra white space was a waste. You can't please everyone, but leaving things the same and sitting and watch iOS and Android grow with their own changes is not a feasible option.
    I`ve never had an Android phone, nor an iPhone, or even a Blackberry. I went from dumbphones to Symbian to Windows Mobile, then WP 7, 7.5, 8, and now 8.1. WP 7 was way too limited. You couldn't do anything; no multitasking (with a few exceptions), no copy/paste, no push notifications other than e-mail or SMS. Each version has progressively added more features and those are all welcome. Each version has had some UI changes, mostly due to customer feedback. When customers overwhelmingly ask for something to be changed, Microsoft listens.
    Let's take a look at the features that were removed now. Facebook integration - this was always problematic. There were times that the built-in chat was broken for weeks at a time. It showed people online 24/7 with no indication that they have been inactive and did not allow you to view pictures people sent. On the People hub some contacts you just couldn't access their pictures or anything and this was because their privacy settings were set to block third party apps from seeing their profile. Likewise on the events you often couldn't see some of the people who RSVPd. The solution? Integrate the Facebook app as best as possible and other social apps as well; leave the messaging part to Facebook.
    Music, video, and games hubs - We are currently getting updates every couple of weeks. Yes, it's slightly slower to load but are you really that impatient that you can't wait a half a second for something to load? Do we really want to wait until a GDR refresh to update these hubs? It could take 6+ months between the time Microsoft releases it and the carriers approve it.
    05-25-2014 08:21 PM
  11. dennisfang1's Avatar

    If an iPhone works for you... go for it... why stay with something that doesn't work for you... I gather you won't be buying apps from the iTunes store much?

    ~ScottGeek
    well, I've been with Windows Phone since the very start, and I have always been a dedicated ambassador of sorts in they eyes of the people around me, so switching to an iPhone is like me surrendering and admitting defeat, and that I have been wrong for all these years :(
    And why wouldn't I be buying apps on the iTunes store? I have hundreds of apps on my iPad, and it's the main source of apps on my macs
    05-25-2014 08:25 PM
  12. dennisfang1's Avatar
    I agree with some points there, like the loss of hubs and integrated messaging. But what's sacrificed are for the better, like the people hub for example. For it to work in WP7-8, it has to link your accounts to a Microsoft server where it can pull feeds. Problem is, if the server goes down, then your phone won't partially work. With this sacrificed (eg. the link between Microsoft and accounts), it welcomes more functionality and flexibility to apps, like integrating to the people hub (eg. Skype, facebook, VK). Although I wouldn't say the same for the xbox suite, that's the only department they're falling short. Photos in 8.1 is okay, I like how apps get their own album section instead of album folders everywhere, but they could've at least kept the panoramic layout. Messaging app could be better, the messenger in 7.5 wasn't good, but in concept they could make the current Messaging app more like the People hub too where apps could integrate.

    Long story short, I partially agree WP is becoming android, only to a certain level like 3rd party app integration and other under-the-hood stuff. But you could've at least held on to the yabbajabba about ugly laggy buggy experience a bit later on after the OEM updates for 8.1 to make a fair judgment.
    and also with design. The distinctive typography, the clean lines, white space, the consistent layout of apps that we all love is slowly being ebbed away to reveal a cluttered chaotic mess of different fonts, colours and margins. The design is the main reason why I loathe android

    Andrew Gordon and anon5997296 like this.
    05-25-2014 08:31 PM
  13. dennisfang1's Avatar
    In my opinion, opening the Music Hub (or any hub) in WP8 was like opening "settings" or phone. It was seamless and fast.
    Now that these hubs became apps, they open on a completely different way.
    I'm not a developer, or an OS engineer or something, but that's too obvious to me.
    Think of Xbox hub.
    It opened in a blink of an eye, and everything was instantly up and running.
    The Games app on the other hand, takes years to open, and when it's open it has to load things, and if you swipe to see your avatar, it's loading again. And even when everything it's loaded you can see that scrolling and swiping are somehow slow.
    I know, with our duel and quad for phone with millions of gigs of ram, you'd think that phones would blaze through the os these days, but day to day, my 1020 feels slower than my surround
    05-25-2014 08:32 PM
  14. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Personally I don't see it. And this is from someone who vehemently hates android.

    I do think the notification shade has pretty much lessened or canceled out live tile concept but the os still feels the same to me and seems much better.

    People are looking for something that isn't there. Android is crap and windows phone took popular features related to ios and android and manages to showcase the features in their unique way

    When we lose live tiles and go to icons then start complaining.
    Jazmac, CamiKitti, b23h and 2 others like this.
    05-25-2014 08:34 PM
  15. dennisfang1's Avatar
    I want to point out one thing. About the OS design, I like the WP8.1 blue UI, much prefer the New,Xbox music UI to the old one and so do lots of others. In fact, the UI changed because people requested and bitched and yelled,for the humongous headers to die. The extra column of tiles which was mandatory because of the 1520 was made a choice because people asked for it. The backgrounds look nice Imo so in my sure I see your point. It's much nicer to look at overall. I agree with you on the relative slowness of the decoupled apps. Do you guys think it wud be easy to add them back in a GDR(developer's voice, needed)
    Because people asked for it? That really isn't a very good reason for me at all. One of my favourite quotes is from steve jobs who said, "The customer doesn't know what they want, you have to show them," and I believe that is so true with design. I have been reading forums where people are requesting everything from different fonts to custom backgrounds in the os. It turns out, we aren;t graphic designers, we have no idea what looks good and what doesn't work.Microsoft limited what we could do to stop us from ruining our UIs and for good reason (have you seen what some people have done to their android phones?). And now MS has given up and now look at the mess we're left with
    Andrew Gordon and anon5997296 like this.
    05-25-2014 08:37 PM
  16. Mohit Jain4's Avatar
    Is it only me or on the wp central app, while viewing forums, u can either jump to first page or to the last page, cannot view the posts in between those pages????

    Update : apparently i didn't tried to swipe, well thanx for reading ;)
    05-25-2014 08:40 PM
  17. dennisfang1's Avatar
    There are two different kind of WP users, those who fell in love in WP7 and those who came after. I am of the former. There was so much thought put into its design and the result was very eye-opening in terms of what a UI can be/look like. I keep the different iterations of metro designs that still inspire me to make the UI of my apps the best they can be because of this attention to details they promoted and still promote in the design section of the windows phone dev center. I'm not a designer but they helped me a lot for being consistently preaching the same design aspects (grid, animation, content over chrome, don't be afraid of whitespaces, etc)

    Attachment 67430
    Attachment 67431


    Unfortunately everything radically changed in WP8.1. You can actually see irregularities in almost every first party app designs as if they came from different groups. They probably are but in previous versions of WP, the choices of font sizes/weights, margins, animations are all consistent let it be the music app, the store, the people hub, the photo hub, the game hub. Now I look at my Lumia 920 and wished Satya fire everyone working on the XBOX Music and Facebook app. The capitalization of Store annoys me a lot (xbox games, music, podcast are all small letters. WTH Microsoft?). Some apps still uses the old "turnstile" animation while others already changed to the new animation. I can't follow a trend where anything and everything goes. It doesn't reflect the One Microsoft vision at all.

    Sadly the new vision for WP is not about the design differentiation anymore (RIP metro) but more like "We have that app too". I can see that they are trying to get some market share from Android but I can't be happy with the state that WP8.1 is in right now as I can't lie to myself that I still like Windows Phone like I used to. But we don't have much choice do we? iOS or Android? I guess iOS is better in terms of aesthetics but developing for iOS is a pain in the back.
    Your response was very eloquent and well delivered, and i completely and utterly agree with you. We loved the consistent layout, margins and fonts of all the apps, we loved the white space which some called "wasted space." I loved windows phone for its design, and now it's gone, :(
    stnm and anon5997296 like this.
    05-25-2014 08:40 PM
  18. MikeSo's Avatar
    Except for the love of gigantic headers that the OP expresses, I a agree with all of it. WP8.1 has taken everything that made WP unique and thrown out out. I still find it to be great, but it's lost its quirks - for good and for bad. I really wish MS had improved the hubs instead of abandoned then. And with the notification center, I think developers will be even less inclined to spend time on live tiles, a fantastic concept that never lived up to its promise.
    Andrew Gordon likes this.
    05-25-2014 08:45 PM
  19. Vishnu Hs's Avatar
    Adding features is fine, but they're loosing focus, and are thus neglecting what WP was about, what it stood for and what we loved about it. Lets face it, we bought a Windows Phone for its gorgeous UI design, the beautiful typography, its smoothness, the hubs, the live tiles, the integrated experience, and they are compromising on all of them in the search of apps and features
    You are absolutely correct in this aspect,simplicity and uniqueness were two aspects that made me move to a windows mobile,but now..........
    Andrew Gordon likes this.
    05-25-2014 08:52 PM
  20. MikeSo's Avatar
    I find it hard to believe that people are complaining about WP evolving. Yes, evolving. If I had a nickel for every post complaining about iOS being stale I'd be on my private island smokin' a Churchill and sippin' some Jack. You can't have it both ways, either remain in a perfect state and become stale or evolve. I'd also like a nickel for every complaint about the lack of a notification center. I think most of the changes have been for the better and necessary for wider acceptance.

    I do agree about the speed of WP8 and I've been one of the louder voices on these boards regarding WP7 being faster and smoother. But there's no going back. WP7 didn't sell well and change was necessary. Do we like them all? No, but it's better than ending up like webOS. I, for one, don't want to be a part of a dead OS relying on a small but dedicated group of fans for support.
    People aren't complaining about it evolving. People are complaining that the essence of the feel of the OS is being sacrificed in search of the app-centric model that the other OS's use.

    Of course, 8.1 is barely out yet, and I for one find tons of little things in it that are improvements, so there is hope. :) And people do like apps, apparently.
    stnm likes this.
    05-25-2014 08:59 PM
  21. jonahtrav's Avatar
    I'm not so sure about the two types of WP users statement ..before and after... but for Windows phones to gain more market share and survive there had to be some changes.. with that said I thought the hubs were cool but now making a playlist in music isn't a giant pain and so there are upsides also.
    Last edited by jonahtrav; 05-25-2014 at 09:18 PM.
    MikeSo likes this.
    05-25-2014 09:02 PM
  22. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    I'm not so sure about the two types of WP users statement ..before and after... but for Windows phones to gain more market share and get better there had to be some changes.. with that said I thought the hubs were cool.
    Yeah, I don't fall into either category. I bought the Samsung Focus on its release date; same with the Lumia 900 and 920. I don't mind the UI changes; I'm actually indifferent. The white space didn't really bother me but now that it is gone I see the benefit of putting more on the screen. A very slight delay in opening the music, video, or games app is a fair compromise to having regular updates.
    Overall I find 8.1 a very welcome improvement but I'm not saying WP 8.1 is perfect. There are a few things that bother me a little. The inclusion of games in the main app listing causes a lot of clutter; it's a minor thing though and I think there may be an option to hide them in a future release. The Facebook app needs to be more stable, especially now that the OS relies on it for integration. The latest release seems to crash often. Also there should be an option to use Bing search as before without having to disable Cortana. It could be as simple as hitting the search button and then another icon to open Bing search.
    05-25-2014 09:20 PM
  23. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    Because people asked for it? That really isn't a very good reason for me at all. One of my favourite quotes is from steve jobs who said, "The customer doesn't know what they want, you have to show them," and I believe that is so true with design. I have been reading forums where people are requesting everything from different fonts to custom backgrounds in the os. It turns out, we aren;t graphic designers, we have no idea what looks good and what doesn't work.Microsoft limited what we could do to stop us from ruining our UIs and for good reason (have you seen what some people have done to their android phones?). And now MS has given up and now look at the mess we're left with
    I don't get why anyone would care what someone else's phone looks like. And this OS is hardly a mess. Yeah, some features are not up to par. And MS is hopefully working patching up these issues.
    MikeSo and forked like this.
    05-25-2014 09:48 PM
  24. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    Yeah, I don't fall into either category. I bought the Samsung Focus on its release date; same with the Lumia 900 and 920. I don't mind the UI changes; I'm actually indifferent. The white space didn't really bother me but now that it is gone I see the benefit of putting more on the screen. A very slight delay in opening the music, video, or games app is a fair compromise to having regular updates.
    Overall I find 8.1 a very welcome improvement but I'm not saying WP 8.1 is perfect. There are a few things that bother me a little. The inclusion of games in the main app listing causes a lot of clutter; it's a minor thing though and I think there may be an option to hide them in a future release. The Facebook app needs to be more stable, especially now that the OS relies on it for integration. The latest release seems to crash often. Also there should be an option to use Bing search as before without having to disable Cortana. It could be as simple as hitting the search button and then another icon to open Bing search.
    Pretty much with you on everything. I got a Focus a few months after release and while I enjoyed WP7, there was no denying some changes and improvements needed to be made. I think for the most part, those changes have been for the better
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    05-25-2014 09:51 PM
  25. Jazmac's Avatar
    "So it is with a heavy heart that I have to announce that after using WP8.1 for about a month now, I have to say that everything that I loved about the OS back in 2011 is gone, and is now replaced a hugely buggy, ugly, laggy and a generally unpleasant OS that represents a badly skinned Android, a far cry from that unbelievably slick OS from not long ago, to prove my point, I would point out everything that everything that I loved about the OS has either been undermined, or has simply been removed all together."

    I stop reading when you said this. This comment simply proves something I've read others comment in these forums that Windows Phone 8.1 developers preview is NOT for the faint of heart, its understudies and wanna be ZDnet level troll bloggers who have not a clue about what "developer preview" is all about.

    Suggesting that this is becoming android because you didn't quite comprehend to what extent 8.1DP would go is just beyond insulting. If you did not want to experience the excitement, joy and pain a developers has to deal with or assist in what a developer is working towards then my friend, you should stay in the lane designated for you. Windows Phone 8.ZERO. Leave the advanced processes with the risk takers and the better equipped among us and when that bridge is built for you, merge in.
    metalchick719 likes this.
    05-25-2014 09:53 PM
160 1234 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD