10-05-2014 01:24 AM
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  1. RaRa85's Avatar
    A little about me
    Let me preface my views by saying that I'm a T-Mobile customer first since January 2007 before anything else. So my journey with Windows Phone started with the HTC HD2. The excellent mod community allowed many possibilities such as dual booting of Android and the newly introduced Windows Phone 7. From the first time I saw the hilarious ad campaign "The phone to save us from our phones." I was in love. Windows Phone was different and the tile interface fit my style perfectly. I am one of the early adopters of Windows Phone and my first device was the HTC Radar which was a great device hampered by a very limited storage at only 8gb.

    What happened next
    I was very happy with Windows Phone 7 even with its many limitations.(copy and paste anyone) But it didn't really matter at all. The phone did pretty much what I wanted it to do and the user experience was very pleasing for the most part. I quickly became a part of the WPCentral community with the app and website. Then the Nokia partnership with Microsoft was announced bringing with the Nokia Lumia 800. I couldn't wait for the US version to be announced. And then it was....for ATT only? I didn't know it then but this would be the first of many times I would be let down by carrier exclusives from not only Nokia but HTC and Samsung as well. It seemed like every phone I wanted was on ATT and that's where I looked to get my Samsung Focus, HTC Titan, Nokia Lumia 920, and now owned Nokia Lumia 1020(all unlocked for T-Mobile). The only two phones I really liked on my carrier were the HTC 8X(very gorgeous handset) and the Nokia Lumia 925(arguably the best looking Windows Phone and phone period) which were both contenders for my daily drivers but not enough to make my officially upgrade with T-Mobile for two years.(the 8X came out before the new Uncarrier plans and I owned the Lumia 920 with 32gb of storage and wireless charging when the Lumia 925 came along). This is my main problem with Windows Phone as a whole: availability of your best devices across a broad range of carriers. At launch only the HTC 8X made it to three carriers.

    While the good ol' folks at ATT enjoyed the HTC Titan, HTC Titan 2, Samsung Focus, Samsung Focus 2, Nokia Lumia 900.920.1020, and 1520 us T-Mobile customers got the HTC Radar, Nokia Lumia 710, Nokia Lumia 520, Lumia 810(another decent phone but I owned the superior Lumia 920 then) and Lumia 630. And why the need to limit the 925 to 16gb with no storage expansion? I'm happy for Verizon as of late landing the coveted Nokia Lumia Icon(but with no storage expansion while the 1520 does) and HTC One for Windows. The HTC One for Windows has been announced to come to ATT and T-Mobile as well which is promising but why wait. Why does Windows Phone continue to hamper and stale sales with carrier exclusives? Is it really carrier choice? Why is the HTC One for Windows being supported by the big three but other successful phones weren't? And why the need by Nokia to release basically the same phone(920.928. and 925) with different features and different release dates? I don't know the answers to these questions but what I do know is that I can go to T-Mobile tomorrow and get the iPhone 6 and 6 plus, LG G3, HTC One(Android), and Samsung Galaxy S5 and many other of the competitors. That's a huge problem for me and with the recent announcement of the Lumia 730 and 830, this trend seems to be continuing and I was a little upset at first to find out that the beloved Lumia 1020 could be left behind so quickly. After rethinking things though, I realize that I really don't need all the new camera tricks that come with the Denim update(but they are cool). The Lumia 1020 is just that good.

    My last commitment to Windows
    As you can see I have been waiting for a long time for a true flagship for Windows Phone to come to my carrier. I would have easily just switched to ATT but as of right now I'm repairing my credit and switching to them or Verizon would mean paying $200-300 just to get started on one of their plans. This does not include getting a phone or a plan. With all things considered, you can see why I prefer to stay with T-Mobile(I have a great history and never missed a payment with them). And I do not intend to continue buying phones unlocked or from eBay because it starts to add up trying to keep up. I really just want a no compromise phone with options(decent processor, great camera and SD expansion)that I can really enjoy for a long time. In most respects, I already have that with the Lumia 1020 but I already see how it will be behind these newer phone in the internal hardware department. The battery life is hit and miss at best though and all these hi-res pictures and video take up a lot of space even though I average over 7gb of free storage at any given time. Most importantly I want a phone that is supported by T-Mobile. I have found all that in the Sony Xperia Z3(at least from the reviews of the Xperia Z2 and PhoneArena's early review) coming to T-Mobile probably before the HTC One for Windows(which I was thinking about waiting for) is launched. Coming from the Lumia 1020 I at least need a phone with 20mp and a sweet sensor to meet my mobile needs. But in using my Lumia 1020 as of late I have decided to wait until Microsoft's next announcement for its high end phone. If this phone is launched on my carrier I will upgrade to it. If not, the Z3 will most certainly be my next phone. I really like what Sony is doing and I've played enough with the Z2(and my wife's Galaxy S5) to see that Android's interface isn't that bad but I'm really not ready to leave Windows Phone behind. And the awesome pictures produced by my Lumia 1020 satisfy every "shiny, new phone" itch. My future as a Windows Phone owner lies in Microsoft's hands. It's really that simple for me as I've been patient enough. What will it be Microsoft? The Lumia 1030 or the Sony Xperia Z3?
    09-20-2014 07:41 PM
  2. Zulfigar's Avatar
    Very understandable rant, and one I'm in the same boat as well. I'm also on T-Mobile with the Lumia 920, which is great and all, but I can't take full advantage of tethering anymore as 8.1 "fixed" the "keyboard hack." Then you have the McLaren that was rumored to be coming to, at least, the big three in the states, which is an annoyance for a lot of people, but at least then I had a worthy upgrade. Yay, right? Nope, Microsoft silently killed it with their lay offs (hopefully, just delayed, I'd still like to see that 3D touch see the light of day).

    But here I am, on the 3rd largest carrier with an unlocked phone bed m that doesn't take full advantage of my carrier because they aren't getting the high-end phones.

    But... Is it the carriers fault, Microsoft's fault, or the combination of both?

    Heck, just one carrier at the moment in the whole world has the HTC One for Windows, and that bites as a whole.
    RaRa85 likes this.
    09-20-2014 07:57 PM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Have you considered going the prepaid route? It's not like the old days where you were forced to settle for crap phones and slow speeds. All the major networks have MVNOs that offer BYOD and 4G LTE.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    09-20-2014 08:14 PM
  4. txkimmers's Avatar
    I totally get it. My contract with Tmo is up in November, been with them for years and years and I don't want to switch, but I also am frustrated with lack of choice re: Windows phone. But really I just resent the heck out of having my hardware options so tied to the service. It's completely insane.
    RaRa85 and steve_w_7 like this.
    09-20-2014 08:15 PM
  5. RaRa85's Avatar
    Have you considered going the prepaid route? It's not like the old days where you were forced to settle for crap phones and slow speeds. All the major networks have MVNOs that offer BYOD and 4G LTE.
    I haven't really given the prepaid route much thought as I really find T-Mobile providing me with a great service and I don't think any of the high end Windows Phone can be had with a prepaid plan(not really sure).
    09-20-2014 08:18 PM
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I haven't really given the prepaid route much thought as I really find T-Mobile providing me with a great service and I don't think any of the high end Windows Phone can be had with a prepaid plan(not really sure).
    As I mentioned, BYOD is available on all the major MVNOs. If you like TMO, go with Simple Mobile and you won't miss a beat or 4G LTE speeds. Straight Talk is another TMO alternative. If AT&T phones tickle your fancy, Cricket and Straight Talk run on Ma Bell's 4G LTE towers. Verizon has LTE as well on their prepaid and they allow tethering too.
    09-20-2014 08:59 PM
  7. RaRa85's Avatar
    As I mentioned, BYOD is available on all the major MVNOs. If you like TMO, go with Simple Mobile and you won't miss a beat or 4G LTE speeds. Straight Talk is another TMO alternative. If AT&T phones tickle your fancy, Cricket and Straight Talk run on Ma Bell's 4G LTE towers. Verizon has LTE as well on their prepaid and they allow tethering too.
    Yes, BYOD but I want a new phone not BYOD. How do their upgrade plans work and again I will be stuck if they won't offer the newest
    Windows devices (and I'm pretty sure they won't if their not even available on the major networks) when they launch. I don't see this as being a solution to phones not being available as they won't be available on prepaid plans either. I would have to buy the phone outright and you're not going to be able to find any brand new flagship cheap anywhere. That's one of the values of T-Mobile's Jump plan. I can get a brand new phone for $0 down(well it does cost once they add in taxes and activation charges but still not a lot) and pay on the phone a little each month which isn't hard to do. I can then upgrade(Jump) to a new phone within 6 months by turning the phone I had in.
    09-20-2014 09:12 PM
  8. Michael Tillman's Avatar
    I know how you feel. I can't leave TMOBILE because I travel internationally several times a year. They have free unlimited 2G international data and calls are just twenty cents per minute. I can't lose such a great international roaming plan. I will not leave TMOBILE but I am on the verge of leaving windows phone after three wonderful years with them.

    I am not impressed with the lack of high end phones for WP8 on TMOBILE. I am impatiently waiting for the HTC M8 for Windows. I don't know if I can handle another couple of months with the Lumia 635. It's an ok phone but not what I want.

    I'm fighting the urge to get an iPhone 6. It's hard because I'm so tired of using a mediocre entry level phone. I blame TMOBILE more than Microsoft. They seem to love getting cheaper entry level windows phones lately.

    Anybody have any clue as to when TMOBILE will actually sell the M8? I might even consider the Lumia 830. But patience is running thin!
    09-20-2014 09:32 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yes, BYOD but I want a new phone not BYOD. How do their upgrade plans work and again I will be stuck if they won't offer the newest
    Windows devices (and I'm pretty sure they won't if their not even available on the major networks) when they launch. I don't see this as being a solution to phones not being available as they won't be available on prepaid plans either. I would have to buy the phone outright and you're not going to be able to find any brand new flagship cheap anywhere. That's one of the values of T-Mobile's Jump plan. I can get a brand new phone for $0 down(well it does cost once they add in taxes and activation charges but still not a lot) and pay on the phone a little each month which isn't hard to do. I can then upgrade(Jump) to a new phone within 6 months by turning the phone I had in.
    With prepaid, there are no upgrades since you're only getting the service, hence BYOD. Whatever's available on the carrier will work with the prepaid provider at any given time, but yes, you will have to buy the phone outright. Sure, the carriers entice you with easy financing options but you will pay much more in the form of contracts and higher monthly bills by the time those 2 years are up. Also, don't let the carrier monthly prices fool you, by the time all the taxes and "regulatory" fees are paid, a $50 bill turns into $60-$65. With prepaid, it's the advertised price + local sales tax - that's it.
    mary beth hale and theefman like this.
    09-20-2014 09:39 PM
  10. RaRa85's Avatar
    Well I guess its one or the other. But buying a phone outright is not an option for me.
    09-20-2014 09:43 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    Well I guess its one or the other. But buying a phone outright is not an option for me.
    Yes, buying a phone outright is painful if you have to go high end. For you it sounds like the iPhone is certainly not an option based on up front cost. But both WP & Android have good options in the $300 - $400 range for high end, and <$200 for good mid range.

    T-Mobile has one of the best prepaid deals to be had anywhere by any carrier: $30/month for 100 minutes/unlimited texts/5GB high speed data. And with Skype and the recent update to Hangouts, the small amount of minutes shouldn't need to be an issue even if you talk a lot.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    09-20-2014 11:07 PM
  12. Munter2's Avatar
    As I mentioned, BYOD is available on all the major MVNOs. If you like TMO, go with Simple Mobile and you won't miss a beat or 4G LTE speeds. Straight Talk is another TMO alternative. If AT&T phones tickle your fancy, Cricket and Straight Talk run on Ma Bell's 4G LTE towers. Verizon has LTE as well on their prepaid and they allow tethering too.
    You go with Simple Mobile and you lose more than just a beat, you lose half the network. You only get the native T-Mobile network. All the deals T-Mo made to improve their network, you don't get any of that service with Simple Mobile and since Simple Mobile starting adding taxes and fees on top of the monthly charges, T-Mobile prepaid is now only 5 bucks more. No way Simple Mobile is worth it anymore.
    09-21-2014 02:38 AM
  13. RaRa85's Avatar
    Yes, buying a phone outright is painful if you have to go high end. For you it sounds like the iPhone is certainly not an option based on up front cost. But both WP & Android have good options in the $300 - $400 range for high end, and <$200 for good mid range.

    T-Mobile has one of the best prepaid deals to be had anywhere by any carrier: $30/month for 100 minutes/unlimited texts/5GB high speed data. And with Skype and the recent update to Hangouts, the small amount of minutes shouldn't need to be an issue even if you talk a lot.
    I'm going to T-Mobile today to check out the iPhone 6 and I'll ask them some questions. But guys, what I'm saying is that I don't have a problem with my current plan. I'm not looking to change that. I'm looking for a high end Windows Phone to be launched on T-Mobile. I think my main point got lost somewhere. That's all I want or I will be looking elsewhere and most likely the Z3 cause I really like Sony's phones. My wife already has the GS5, the G3 just seems ok, o have an iPod Touch so I don't need an iPhone, and the HTC One's camera probably is the only thing that makes me shy away from it(still thinking about that one though). I played with the One for Windows at the Microsoft kiosk at the mall and I really like it plus you can't zoom in on pictures on Instagram anyway and Facebook already reduces your pictures when uploading so it wouldn't be a big deal in that regard. Like I said I said I'll take my time with my decision but I'd like to see the availability of high end Windows devices change across all carriers, not just T-Mobile. There's no reason why all three carriers shouldn't have the Lumia Icon/930.
    txkimmers and steve_w_7 like this.
    09-21-2014 06:47 AM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    You go with Simple Mobile and you lose more than just a beat, you lose half the network. You only get the native T-Mobile network. All the deals T-Mo made to improve their network, you don't get any of that service with Simple Mobile and since Simple Mobile starting adding taxes and fees on top of the monthly charges, T-Mobile prepaid is now only 5 bucks more. No way Simple Mobile is worth it anymore.
    Simple Mobile is not just on the AWS 1700/2100 spectrum. At least not here in Miami. I don't know if the re-farming reached your area but an AT&T phone runs 4G LTE on SM here.
    09-21-2014 12:29 PM
  15. Guzzler3's Avatar
    I completely understand your frustration. T-Mobile is the bottom of the barrel with Windows Phones. They roll out mid level WP's, get frustrated that they aren't selling (it's because their sales staff literally push you to Android or Apple), and then EOL the phone early.

    I've sent emails, made phone calls, and got up the CEO support level. Had nice long talks about the sales of WP's on T-Mobile and why they were crap. As I would bounce into a T-Mobile store and play "dumb" saying my phone died, and I'm just shopping around just to see what the sales person would suggest. It's always Apple first, then Android. If I say "I've heard some intriguing things about Windows Phone..." 90% of the time the sales person will essentially say "It's crap. It's buggy. You don't want one. There are no apps. etc."

    I would take notes as to the store, and the sales person's name, and such. I gave the information the CEO Support person, and they were shocked, and literally speechless when I would add "... and this is why you're having a hard time selling Windows Phones. It's not because of people aren't interested, it's YOUR sales people that are killing it." The only response was "We'll have to look into that."
    09-21-2014 12:33 PM
  16. RaRa85's Avatar
    I completely understand your frustration. T-Mobile is the bottom of the barrel with Windows Phones. They roll out mid level WP's, get frustrated that they aren't selling (it's because their sales staff literally push you to Android or Apple), and then EOL the phone early.

    I would take notes as to the store, and the sales person's name, and such. I gave the information the CEO Support person, and they were shocked, and literally speechless when I would add "... and this is why you're having a hard time selling Windows Phones. It's not because of people aren't interested, it's YOUR sales people that are killing it." The only response was "We'll have to look into that."
    While I agree with you cause this does happen a lot, I just can't get over the fact that not one high end Windows Phone is available across the three major carriers. The HTC One for Windows will be the only one AFTER this stupid exclusive period with Verizon. I would like to believe that if T-Mobile and other carriers had the best available Windows Phone they would at least be more willing to sell those to customers who were new to the smartphone arena or to those looking to switch from the obvious favorites.
    09-21-2014 01:58 PM
  17. Guzzler3's Avatar
    Personally, I prefer to get unbranded, unlocked, phones and F the carriers. Sure I have to save up to purchase the phone, as you can't do payment plans this way. But personally, I think it is worth it.

    Now if Microsoft would make a phone that was compatible with ALL the carriers, that would be sweet. One that would use the SIM/carrier to determine which radio frequencies to literally turn on. Find a way to turn off the other frequencies if they aren't compatible so save power. Make that an unbranded, unlocked phone, mid to high end phone, with no carrier exclusivity, they might be surprised at how many people would buy it. Because face it, I think we all hate our carrier in some way or another.
    09-21-2014 06:12 PM
  18. switch side method's Avatar
    Personally, I prefer to get unbranded, unlocked, phones and F the carriers. Sure I have to save up to purchase the phone, as you can't do payment plans this way. But personally, I think it is worth it.

    Now if Microsoft would make a phone that was compatible with ALL the carriers, that would be sweet. One that would use the SIM/carrier to determine which radio frequencies to literally turn on. Find a way to turn off the other frequencies if they aren't compatible so save power. Make that an unbranded, unlocked phone, mid to high end phone, with no carrier exclusivity, they might be surprised at how many people would buy it. Because face it, I think we all hate our carrier in some way or another.
    What country are you in by the way? Just that I got my 1520 unlocked in a payment plan and I got the "buy now pay one year later" plan and I can choose what colour I want. That's on the Woolworths.com and Littlewoods.com website in England
    09-21-2014 06:26 PM
  19. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Personally, I prefer to get unbranded, unlocked, phones and F the carriers. Sure I have to save up to purchase the phone, as you can't do payment plans this way. But personally, I think it is worth it
    That's the way the sane parts of the world does things.

    If someone can't afford to pay for a phone all at once isn't that why they invented credit cards? Or better yet buy a phone you can afford. There are Windows phones for around $50 when on sales.

    Would you let your gas station dictate what kind of car you buy? Of course not, so why would you only get your phone from what a carrier feels like selling? And don't even bring up the (not) free upgrade hamster wheel people let the carriers put them on.
    09-21-2014 06:37 PM
  20. RaRa85's Avatar
    Trust me I don't let T-Mobile decide what kind of phone I carry as I said I bought most of my phones off eBay and had them unlocked. But I would like an officially supported phone through T-Mobile because I don't have a problem with my service or the price I pay. I'm rocking an unlocked Lumia 1020 for now but this doesn't change the fact that Windows Phone is the only OS that is not equally available but the same high end Android phones and Apple of course are. I want that to change.
    09-21-2014 08:03 PM
  21. RaRa85's Avatar
    That's the way the sane parts of the world does things.

    If someone can't afford to pay for a phone all at once isn't that why they invented credit cards? Or better yet buy a phone you can afford. There are Windows phones for around $50 when on sales.
    .
    If only it were that simple. Credit cards are what got me here in the first place.(Well technically not managing them correctly). But I also have more important things to drop $500-700 on than phones. You guys are still missing the bigger picture. Our competing rivals are available on a broad range of carriers but Windows Phone isn't. This whole talk of buying phones outright and prepaid plans are sidebars.
    09-21-2014 08:09 PM
  22. pankaj981's Avatar
    You can buy an unlocked Lumia 930 or the 1520.3 from Amazon and pay it off in 6 months on 0% using the Amazon store card or you can enroll in one of those credit cards which provide 15-18 months on 0% interest. There are plenty of other options, all one has to do is look around. I moved out of T-Mobile just because of them not supporting WPs. I have other priorities in life other than trying to research which ROM to flash on my T-Mobile 925 so that I can get Cyan without losing the AWS bands, all because stupid T-Mobile doesn't want to support its Windows Phones (I also had an 810 which was a great phone until T-Mobile decided to crap on supporting it) I have an unlocked 920 (my wife has an unlocked 5S) which I am now using on Cricket. I pay about $15 less than what I used to pay T-Mobile for 2 lines, what I get? A better network with a better coverage (AT&T). What I lose? Super high speed data on T-Mobile (on Cricket I get about 8 MBPS on LTE but the coverage compensates for it)
    RaRa85 and cinavs like this.
    09-21-2014 08:10 PM
  23. RaRa85's Avatar
    You can buy an unlocked Lumia 930 or the 1520.3 from Amazon and pay it off in 6 months on 0% using the Amazon store card or you can enroll in one of those credit cards which provide 15-18 months on 0% interest. There are plenty of other options, all one has to do is look around. I moved out of T-Mobile just because of them not supporting WPs. I have other priorities in life other than trying to research which ROM to flash on my T-Mobile 925 so that I can get Cyan without losing the AWS bands. I have an unlocked 920 (my wife has an unlocked 5S) which I am now using on Cricket. I pay about $15 less than what I used to pay T-Mobile for 2 lines, what I get? A better network with a better coverage (AT&T). What I lose? Super high speed data on T-Mobile (on Cricket I get about 8 MBPS on LTE but the coverage compensates for it)
    I understand that but my main point in writing this thread is this: I want the best of Windows devices available on all major carriers as are other platforms. Everyone is chipping in on work around and other options but I'm trying to get people to see that we shouldn't have do all this maneuvering to get the phones we want on our carriers. I don't have to do that to get the iPhone 6, Galaxy S5, LG G3 or the HTC One. I'm not looking for options to get another Windows Phone. I'm looking for options to come to T-Mobile. And across all major US carriers. ATT does not have this problem as much.
    09-21-2014 08:17 PM
  24. pankaj981's Avatar
    I understand that but my main point in writing this thread is this: I want the best of Windows devices available on all major carriers as are other platforms. Everyone is chipping in on work around and other options but I'm trying to get people to see that we shouldn't have do all this maneuvering to get the phones we want on our carriers. I don't have to do that to get the iPhone 6, Galaxy S5, LG G3 or the HTC One. I'm not looking for options to get another Windows Phone. I'm looking for options to come to T-Mobile. And across all major US carriers. ATT does not have this problem as much.
    Okay fact is, T-Mobile doesn't care about Windows Phones. Secondly carriers are not a barrier unless you pretend that they are. Look at how carriers and phones are sold outside the US in other parts of the world. Most of the people in those countries have to buy the phone outright or on an installment plan if they cannot afford buying it outright. These phones are priced more or less the same as what they are priced here in the US when bought out of contract. One should only use a carrier's network based on the services they provide or their coverage or the pricing, not based on whether they are supporting a particular platform or not. If you mean that carriers price their devices lower when on contract, think about it again. T-Mobile has moved on to the EIP plan which is nothing but an installation plan through them. Downside? It stays locked to their network till you pay off the EIP. When you buy an unlocked phone from the manufacturer itself, you can have financing offers from various sources, advantage? The phone is unlocked, gets faster software updates from the manufacturer and you can switch carriers at your choice. As I have mentioned before, I moved out of T-Mobile just because of them not supporting their WPs and bad coverage outside major cities. Unless you really care about Wi-Fi calling and/or any other features that only T-Mobile or any other carrier provides per se, there is no point in sticking with them just because they don't carry a particular phone (or ecosystem).
    theefman likes this.
    09-21-2014 08:56 PM
  25. RaRa85's Avatar
    Okay fact is, T-Mobile doesn't care about Windows Phones. Secondly carriers are not a barrier unless you pretend that they are. Look at how carriers and phones are sold outside the US in other parts of the world. Most of the people in those countries have to buy the phone outright or on an installment plan if they cannot afford buying it outright. These phones are priced more or less the same as what they are priced here in the US when bought out of contract. One should only use a carrier's network based on the services they provide or their coverage or the pricing, not based on whether they are supporting a particular platform or not. If you mean that carriers price their devices lower when on contract, think about it again. T-Mobile has moved on to the EIP plan which is nothing but an installation plan through them. Downside? It stays locked to their network till you pay off the EIP. When you buy an unlocked phone from the manufacturer itself, you can have financing offers from various sources, advantage? The phone is unlocked, gets faster software updates from the manufacturer and you can switch carriers at your choice. As I have mentioned before, I moved out of T-Mobile just because of them not supporting their WPs and bad coverage outside major cities. Unless you really care about Wi-Fi calling and/or any other features that only T-Mobile or any other carrier provides per se, there is no point in sticking with them just because they don't carry a particular phone (or ecosystem).
    Thanks.
    09-21-2014 08:59 PM
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