12-27-2014 08:30 AM
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  1. salmanahmad's Avatar
    I apologise if I hurt any die hard Windows Phone fans here, but I have a list of reasons why I believe Windows Phone doesn't take off and some suggestions to go along with them as we'll.

    Windows Phone is a bit odd of an OS. Android is often described as a complicated but highly customisable and functional software whereas iOS is described as a much simpler phone that just works.

    Windows Phone is nor as easy to use as iOS, nor as functional as some other OSes out there it has nothing going for it.

    But...this could be used for marketing to show what Windows Phone is truly good at - providing a balance between simplicity, beauty and customisation but I have yet to see this sort of thing advertised(they have mentioned it in a few YouTube videos though).

    Moving onwards and elaborating on the same point, Windows Phone or at least part of it has revolved around photography and I'll admit that it did a much better job than Android for as long as I can remember. But sadly they've fallen short there as well, with iOS taking the lead again with arguably the best camera API out there that is used to create amazing apps like Instagram Hyperlapse.

    And then once you overcome those shortcomings you'll be faced with a massive shortage of applications, primarily quality gaming titles. And that's not all...even if you find your necessary apps they'll usually be months behind their iOS and Android counterparts.

    Once you've come ahead of the apps and games, then there is the social aspect, the likely scenario is that most of your friends own either an Android or iOS device and you'll feel left out or even ridiculed for having a Windows Phone.

    Plus Microsoft's services aren't offered in many countries, case in point Cortana and HERE Maps(I'm sure there are others) and you can't use Google services either.

    Linus Sebastian, arguably one of the funniest and most well educated reviewers also conveys his thoughts about Windows Phone in this video:

    And lastly Windows Phone is still somewhat playing catch up with Android and iOS, lacking quite a lot of features that the competition has.
    I'm sure there are aspects Windows Phone does better, the cameras is one things, but to make a phone or OS sell well you need to excel in most things not just a few.

    This is what I believe, I have more reasons but I'm sure no one would want to read a much longer post. Again, I can be wrong but this is what I think having used Windows Phone for some time.
    10-13-2014 01:38 PM
  2. colinkiama's Avatar
    It's three things imo. App gap, Microsoft not prioritising WP and perception of WP(I'm not even sure who it was made for in the first place. People even think windows 8=windows phone 8.) it's not impossible for WP to take off however if Microsoft aren't doing anything to solve this problem, why would US carriers bother to sell the flagships? Why would people want to buy a windows phone?
    10-13-2014 04:12 PM
  3. Ebaneeezor's Avatar
    I agree with Pierre - Xbox was way late to the game. Just because a market is saturated does not mean its not worth getting into, it just means its a proven market :)
    10-13-2014 04:25 PM
  4. stephen_az's Avatar
    I think the carrier exclusives are the biggest issue. I'm guessing you are in Canada, based upon your avatar. I believe that only Rogers has the 1520. It would probably be more successful if Bell and Telus also carried it.

    It's the same here in the US. AT&T is the only carrier that has the 1520. T-Mobile, Verizon and Sprint do not have it.
    Personally, I consider the perpetual mention of carrier exclusives to be a tired, ill informed, and very lame excuse. It ranks up there with the conspiracy stuff with respect to actual basis in reality. The modern smartphone market in the US was born out of a carrier exclusive - AT&T's deal with Apple. Carriers like those deals because it gives them something to market as an edge and they will continue to push them.

    A product that everyone carries is also one that forces the carrier to cut margins and focus even more on the things that sell best. Do people really think that just having the same Windows Phones on all carriers will suddenly make everyone want the devices? I am sorry but what it would mean is the WP devices would get lumped in with all of the generic low selling LG, Sony, HTC, most Samsung (non-Galaxy) etc., etc., Android devices and the focus would still be on the Samsung and Apple premium offerings because that is where the market share is. The fact is you need to actually already have the market share before being everywhere actually helps. Otherwise, you are just another minor market player on the side shelf in the VZW or AT&T store.

    With that said, from my perspective, the reason the platform has not taken off in the US is people are generally satisfied (or at least comfortable) with what they already own. Microsoft was late to the game and mostly is limited to slow growth from new adopters of smart phones; those grabbing pay as you go or other entry level devices; people who have had problems with another platform; or the dwindling Blackberry crowd. Those do not comprise the majority of the market at this time.

    Quite frankly, waiting to see Apple's or Samsung's massive year on year growth of years past is also just silly. They don't even see that kind of growth anymore when you look at the hard numbers. Slow and steady growth is reality - it also is not a bad thing. This is not a sports event, it is business.
    Last edited by stephen_az; 10-13-2014 at 07:32 PM.
    Bodeanicus and FinancialP like this.
    10-13-2014 04:54 PM
  5. ShinraCorp's Avatar
    So I'm here on my 1520 and a thought just occurred to me. This OS (not to mention a great of a phone in the 1520) is simply unbeatable.

    It's smooth and fluid. Must of all i love how it communicates my information whether it be Live Tiles, OS integration with Cortana, our through Office 365. In Office all my stuff in my cloud or the lady thing I viewed in Word is right there! The OS has Wordflow, tells me my flight information, and runs my presentations. But its not just that it can do all these things and more...its how it does it. This gets back to MS vision of cloud and mobile. You've The screen is so vibrant and my camera kicks ***. heard it all before. Oh and unlike some I beehive in Windows 10.

    Tonight while out everybody kept looking at my phone and asking me questions as I took some great shots. They never seen it or even heard of it before... really?!

    Anyway I'm confused. Why isn't WP getting any love? I don't care what anybody says this OS is the best. In fact it's not even close. Is it the apps? Marketing? Slow start? What?
    Byrese, let's talk Canadian to Canadian and you'll know why right off the bat why it's not taking off here. Windows Phone works pretty well in some countries (India, Brazil, some European countries) but the problem with us, are the carriers, Bell, Rogers and Telus barely market off windows phone and let's not forget that our population is aging, they will listen to the salesman/saleswoman in which they have next to 0 knowledge about Windows Phone. They listen to their advice so they always purchase an Android, iOS or Blackberry device because that's what they're familiar with. Let's not forget the name Windows runs a sour taste in their mouths because they only remember the operating system that crashes on their desktop (they're not tech-savvy :P)

    I myself try to promote Windows Phone as much as I can. My father was interested since I told him about HERE Drive doesn't require an Internet Connection once the maps are downloaded, so his next phone will be a Windows Phone. It's these tiny little details that makes it sell out. Office while free on Windows Phone is severely featureless. It's best just to read the office files instead of making them on the phone.

    I also want to develop apps but my personal finances doesn't allow me to invest time in learning and developing Windows Phone. Once I do have a stable income, I'll finish learning and then start making apps. (Mostly games though :P)

    You can do your part by promoting Windows Phone to your friends and family. The best marketing has always been mouth to ear. It's just that Microsoft and the carriers didn't really help out with the initial marketing (or lack of). I mean I saw I think 3 Windows Phone users besides me in my life. It's a fantastic OS and no one should be shy in showing it off.

    Also it wouldn't hurt that the 1520 is actually available instead of importing it :P
    10-13-2014 07:53 PM
  6. Jazmac's Avatar
    It doesn't seem as if the people that market this phone are connected to the age group it seeks to appeal to. Even the way they market the Surface RT was a combination of Rube Goldberg and the Radio City Rockettes. Yes the keyboard can snap into place but no one considers dancing on tables to make that happen. Fail.

    Microsoft seriously needs to get back to the people they intend to capture because it will be those youthful types today that will keep this franchise bubbling in the future. I think with Nadella in place, we have yet to see how to turns this cruise ship around but so far, he seems less nimble than even his predecessor Steve Balmer. And I'm a big Balmer fan. He couldn't dance but weather you agree or not, Balmer got it done. I'm willing to give this new cat time to marshal the troops but not much time. Especially where this phone is concerned.

    This current batch is the Balmer era. Balmer was at least able to get WP on the map to 4 percent.

    2015, the ball is in Nadella's court. So far, all he is capable of doing is being controversial where women at Microsoft is concerned. I'll give it to the end of the first quarter of 2015. What I want to see if an actual production model of Windows Phone. This phone is still beta and as much as it is stable, it is still BETA. Make this damn phone look like you give a crap about it. Show me a control panel with options and alphabetize it for god sake. Give me the option to chose a color. Give me the option to have tiles or buttons. Yes, buttons. If they want to disrupt, give me that choice.

    Feature pack this OS. Don't keep telling me about Black, Cyan, or whatever buzzword and make us wait for carriers to make the call. GIVE IT over the air. This was promised back with Windows phone 7. That lie from a speech from Belforie is what got me here. Not to mention the phone reading airline tickets and checking traffic and let me know if I'll make my flight. Another Belforie lie.

    Quit lying to me. Deliver what you promise. Clock is ticking.
    Laura Knotek and Bodeanicus like this.
    10-13-2014 07:57 PM
  7. mj0's Avatar
    While what has been said here is true from a tech-savvy point of view but I'd like to raise a few more issues from two very different perspectives: average John & Jane Doe not arguing the pros and cons of a specific mobile platform with complete strangers on the internet on one hand, and the enterprise on the other.

    Let's start with John & Jane Doe.

    First of all it's marketing or rather the noticeable lack thereof. And that's not US exclusive it's true in all markets worldwide. A marketing campaign always needs to address two things: first of all raise awareness of ones existence and second create an image of your brand/product. Don't provide too much information, that's too confusing for most people. Be vague, creative and try to lure people into your realm of reality distortion. Apple has perfected this to the point where they don't really need to advertise anymore - everybody plus their grandmother know Apple is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious cool and they make the products to desire. Android on the other hand is carried by mouth to ear propaganda - if 90% of your friends use Android phones chances are you'll get sucked into it. Not sure about the US (haven't been there in a while) but Samsung does run massive marketing campaigns in Europe trying to create an image as 'the other Apple', like Apple's younger brother that is way cooler. They're not as effective as Apple by any means but it does work. Sony, LG, etc. do the bare minimum to advertise their phones but they are barely visible. Nokia I have yet to notice, they're practically invisible.

    Second, not only do I think that the app gap doesn't matter but I am convinced that while it most certainly exists it's a non-issue to most people. In my circle of friends apps are not what matters, it's what people can or want to afford (see marketing) as long as it runs Facebook, Whatsapp, and maybe a game or two. Most people I know have less than 20 third party apps installed on their devices and use less than 10 on a regular basis simply because they don't care. Even Twitter, Instagram or Snapchat is something most people don't use - it's the tech savvy people that live and breath on the internet that do but that's a minority still. Most people are neither tech savvy nor do they work anywhere near the technology field. The problem with the internet is that only people who are on the internet can participate in discussions and quite frankly, 99% of all users out there don't give a **** about news regarding Windows Phone, Android, iOS, Blackberry OS, etc. Much like I don't really care about the latest inventions in hammers, lawn mowers, or floor tiling. I'm sure there are huge differences between the different brands and products but if I need a lawn mower I'll just purchase one that is availble at the store, period. Forums such as these are heavily tilted towards heavy users for whom the smartphone is an extension of the personal self but let's be honest: that's not how most people use their devices. I have a prime specimen at home - my wife. When the iPhone 5 was first introduced she decided she MUST have one, after having previously used an older 3GS that I had lying around at work and didn't need anymore. We spent 700 on it hoping that she might start using it (at least it would've been money well spent) but did that happen? No. Does she need a smartphone? Not really. Not once in her life has she installed an app herself, every third party app on that phone was recommended and installed by me. She doesn't even know how to do that, she has no idea what an AppleID Is and what an AppStore is. Does she use these third party apps at all? Not really, she simply doesn't see the point. Even the ones that I personally think are worth using, such as news readers. I'd say roughly 70% of her smartphone use is browsing the web reading gossip stories about celebreties and their ill-bred misbehaving offspring, 20% is texting, and 10% is Facebook. Occasionally she uses Google Maps to find out how to get from A to B and once every couple of weeks does she launch our local public transport provider's app to check the train/bus schedule to get home late at night.

    Now for the enterprise perspective. As we all know enterprise doesn't care for coolness, Facebook/Twitter/Snapchat app availability or initial purchase price. It's the total cost of ownership (TCO) that drives decisions and as the head of IT operations for a large multinational corporation with more than 3,000 employees and one of three people calling shots in terms of mobile devices I consider myself apt to speak for corporations big and small. We went with Apple many years ago because back then it was the only device to offer full support for Microsoft's ActiveSync Exchange protocol and this hasn't changed to this very day. Google has ditched support for ActiveSync Exchange completely in favor of IMAP/CardDAV/CalDAV which, quite frankly, wasn't a huge loss because their implementation at one point even managed to crash our Exchange server. Blackberry went a different route and requires a Blackberry Enterprise Server and while Windows Phone does have ActiveSync Exchange support built-in it's incomplete and lacks certain critical features, such as support for public contacts. Another issue is device management and quite frankly once again there are only two competitors in this field: Blackberry and Apple. Managing hundreds or thousands of Android or Windows Phone devices is a major PITA because there is no management software available for central management. I am currently using a Windows Phone device to see if at some point in the near future we might switch from iOS to Windows Phone but quite frankly I don't see this happening yet. Microsoft has become a major player in business mostly due to their ActiveDirectory capabilities - I'm talking centralized software deployment and management, centralized update distribution, OS lockdown, etc. None of this is available on Windows Phone. Zero. Nada. A third issue is OS uniformity - only with Apple can you make sure all your devices are running the exact same operating system, even down to the minor version. Google's Nexus would be a competitor here as well but have already fallen back due to lack of ActiveSync Exchange support. Apple has one mobile operating system available for all their devices. I've lost cound how many different implementations of Android Samsung is sporting right now, and even Nokia doesn't run the same version of Windows Phone on their current lineup, it's a mess really.

    There's a reason why most large companies use Apple devices and the reason is not because they're cool, super awesome and have the best selfie camera or narcissism enhancement app available. It's because while initial pricing may be higher than average TCO is much lower due to enterprise manageability. Imagine installing an app, modifying a policy or installing an update on 1,000 devices spread all over Europe running a plethora of different operating systems without a way of doing this remotely over-the-air through some sort of management service.

    In short, this is also why Macs are practically non-existent in enterprise environments besides a few exceptions here and there, mostly for CEOs or upper management. It's all about manageability.
    10-14-2014 01:53 AM
  8. LumiaIcon's Avatar
    Carrier exclusives, slow to update handsets and only a few choices against a sea of competition. It is nothing short of unacceptable to have the 1020 on display against the iPhone 6, Galaxy S5, MotoX etc. That was crap last year and a joke now. The one trick pony of the camera only gets you so far. That is their problem. If you walk into a store, the WP are either outdated or look like something for the "go phone" plan. Fix that... And WP will prosper. It is by far the best platform.
    10-14-2014 02:05 AM
  9. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    Very well said mj0. With MSFT gradually transitioning to their unified Windows concept, a lot of what you spoke of is being addressed. Active Sync exchange is something MSFT has been working on and with the latest update has made drastic improvements. The problem was WP was never designed for heavy enterprise interaction in its embryonic stages of development. That has since changed with MSFTs mobile first initiative. MSFT has all the keys in this department. How they choose to use them will be the real determining factor. Like you said, money still makes the world go round, so if execs see themselves saving hundreds of thousands by switching if they can get the same functionality from Apple, they will.
    10-14-2014 07:37 AM
  10. angel831's Avatar
    Not only that, AT&T's representation of it - just based on local stores in my area - is poor. They don't know how to sell it at all, have very little store exposure for it, and really just don't put in any effort to offer it as an option. The majority of people here are all iphone, meh. I do have an HTC One, love it, love Android, but have to admit, I miss my 920. Camera amazing, loved live tiles, and now they have all the camera apps that I love.
    10-14-2014 10:55 AM
  11. Joe920's Avatar
    It is taking off, it's just that it's taking off like . caution.. moderate foul language ahead)
    10-14-2014 11:01 AM
  12. mj0's Avatar
    MSFT has all the keys in this department. How they choose to use them will be the real determining factor.
    Indeed. That actually took me by surprise. Somehow I expected Windows Phone to have full ActiveSync Exchange support but instead it's still Apple leading the way, by far! And the fact that there's no native CalDAV/CardDAV support and you have to setup an iCloud as CalDAV/CardDAV account instead is something I would have never expected. It is 2014, after all, and while most consumers may be happy with Gmail/iCloud/Outlook.com that simply doesn't cut it for enterprise use scenarios. Anyway, I'll be patient and wait for improved support even though I was already disappointed by this very problem once before. That's right, I'm looking at you, Google.

    For the time being I don't see us switching to Windows Phone devices, we'll stick with the iPhone 5S for as long as it's still available. The iCloud trick might work now but you never know - Apple might update their servers and break this workaround for good. Imagine 500 smartphones losing access to all public and shared contacts over night. Personally, I'll try to stick with it for now and replace my iPhone since I really enjoy the fact that the Lumia has significantly better reception than my iPhone 5. I can finally make phone calls on the train without getting cut off every two minutes.
    10-14-2014 12:16 PM
  13. tgp's Avatar
    After reading all these replies, and then seeing the YouTube video above, it just occurred to me why WP can't take off: it does not have wings and jet engines!
    D M C and jfdavis17 like this.
    10-14-2014 12:38 PM
  14. LumiaIcon's Avatar
    Not only that, AT&T's representation of it - just based on local stores in my area - is poor. They don't know how to sell it at all, have very little store exposure for it, and really just don't put in any effort to offer it as an option. The majority of people here are all iphone, meh. I do have an HTC One, love it, love Android, but have to admit, I miss my 920. Camera amazing, loved live tiles, and now they have all the camera apps that I love.
    When I purchased my 1520, it was not on display. I asked for the green and they twice brought me out a 1020, to which I replied..."no the big one...15...20.". Then the rep finally found it and said... "I don't think I have ever sold one of these, are you sure you want a WP?" - again - how does the average consumer get through that to buy it? And how do you WANT it when it is not on display and the one that is, has a little 720p screen and is slow as can be. Then walk into Best Buy and look at the Samsung Display...
    Byrese likes this.
    10-14-2014 12:41 PM
  15. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    When I purchased my 1520, it was not on display. I asked for the green and they twice brought me out a 1020, to which I replied..."no the big one...15...20.". Then the rep finally found it and said... "I don't think I have ever sold one of these, are you sure you want a WP?" - again - how does the average consumer get through that to buy it? And how do you WANT it when it is not on display and the one that is, has a little 720p screen and is slow as can be. Then walk into Best Buy and look at the Samsung Display...
    Surprisingly, when I went to the AT&T store to have an employee install a screen protector for my 920 that I ordered online and had shipped to the store, two employees had red 1520s! The guy who put the screen protector on my 920 had one, and so did the woman who asked me what I was there to pick up.
    Byrese likes this.
    10-14-2014 01:06 PM
  16. wplee's Avatar
    What do you define as "taking off"? Please remember that the Market is not just the US of A. I'm 100% certain that picture of the youngsters with iPhones are Americans, not British, Australian, Italian or German. In the UK 10% of all mobile sales are now Windows Phone. I don't wish to be rude but American teenagers are hugely brand conscious and it's not something we should aspire to. As a Brit, I don't have US brand bias and wouldn't bring my child up to copy their peers without first identifying other options. Most of those youngsters don't have a Playstation 4, yet could have gotten a Lumia 635 and a console if they weren't so influenced by everyone else. If they say they can only use iPhone because its simple to use, then I seriously worry for that generations future. As for Store staff influencing buyers, well I have no sympathy or respect for any person signing up for a 2 year contract based on the advice of a minimum waged carrier employee often seeking a bonus.

    The thing is WP will take off next year by default. Windows 10 install numbers will be combined across all devices with the One platform and One App store. So in the next 2 years MSFT still simply boast hundreds of millions of Windows 10 users and hopefully get developers back in the fold. For the time being, I'm happy to enjoy the industries best kept secret.
    10-14-2014 01:31 PM
  17. fredd's Avatar
    It's because of the way people think about Windows Phone.

    Windows Phone used to has a big lack of apps at the time of WP7, though no longer, the Store is growing everyday, people still keep relating "Windows Phone" with "lack of apps" until now. It's like... habitual.

    Windows Phone = lack of apps = low market share = no developer support = lack of apps... Then the cycle begins.
    I hate to say this but there is a lack of apps still. You go to any bank, local news programs, Dish network and a lot of security systems just a few examples and there are either no apps for windows or terrible lack of updating. I bought a swann security system but the app is so out dated it will not work.
    10-14-2014 01:33 PM
  18. waazzupppp's Avatar
    I'm going with a much simpler reasoning... Have you seen the new AT&T iPhone ads? The one where the guy walks in to the store and the girls says, "Yes, we have the new iPhone." The guy replies with, "How do you know that I..." She replies to that with, "Everyone wants the new iPhone," cutting him off and not letting him tell her what he actually wanted. That's the reason why Windows Phone won't take off.

    In real life, it's the same story. I can purchase a T-Mobile Lumia 635 for $100 and activate in on a non-contract T-Mo plan for $50 a month and be a very happy camper. Unfortunately, that sales person really wants me to get the higher paying iPhone 6 or Galaxy S 5 that is 'free' and only $30 a month instead. They won't show me the Lumia and will try to WOW me with the iPhone or GS5. That may also be a reason why we didn't see more carriers go after the M8 for Windows faster. They don't want 'good' competition in Windows Phones that won't make them extra cash from Samsung or Apple.

    It's the same fate that BlackBerry struggled through - with the great devices only coming to AT&T because none of the other three wanted to pay for BIS or BES services. If Microsoft wants to make Windows Phone a winner, it starts with the carriers. Forget ad buys and posters... It's all about spiffs for the sales people. Maybe some contests at the store level - top Windows Phone Seller gets a FREE Xbox One? Or monthly sales spiffs that double what Apple and Samsung are paying in the short term? Something like for every WP you sell, Microsoft and Nokia will give you $100. That's the drastic action that is needed. Maybe some additional "Smoked By Windows Phone" contests.

    Nothing spreads the word of a great device faster than those playing with it. By dumping a Samsung Focus S on me at the original smoked campaign, I converted about 50 people in the next month to Windows Phone. I've done the same with every device I've had since, but when 200 people I know get a GS3/4/5 and 250 get an iPhone 4/5/6, 50 doesn't dent the market very quickly...
    10-14-2014 01:52 PM
  19. chezm's Avatar
    Most recently the trend with peoples confidence in Microsoft has been what seems to be a lack of confidence on their side of things. Myself and some of my peers purchased Surface Pro 2's only 6 months later to be treated by a slap in the face Surface Pro 3, which if all of us knew the Pro 3 was right around the corner we would have waited and been content. I love my Pro 2, but some of my friends who took my input were really upset that a much better update was recently so soon (every 12 months is the expected timeframe, not half the time period).

    From that point on my friends, whom were Android and Apple fans opening up to considering Microsoft saw a lack of confidence from the companies decisions. Then came the EoL news about the L1020 (which i think turned out to be false, but still the perception this left with techies wasnt good), no announcements of new high end flagship phones other than the 930 which received negative reception high number of hardware defects, Denim major updates not available for all 8.1 devices and finally WP10 potentially not available for all WP8 devices (not that this was confirmed, but in their opinion nothing MS says anymore is viable and can be taken truthful). Again, this is the perception of my peers and not a general statement from everyone...but you can see where even the potential consumers have slowly walked away. It seems its not because WP is BAD, but it's MS's decisions that have left many unsure of WP's existence, or lack there of.

    This in addition to the popular App Gap is the clincher, and as many have said its mostly a Official App Quality (3rd party aside) just cant compare in the eyes of many. And considering im in Canada, most of the phones you guys in USA and Worldwide get, we get only 10% of the device. If you go to Rogers or Telus official site theres ONE windows phone, the 635...thats it! You have that against the iPhone 6, Samsung GS5, LG G3, HTC ONE M8 (And)...it just doesnt look good. Sure the 830 and 735 are coming, but at the exact same time so is the Note 4 and the rumored Nexus 6.

    If Microsoft priced the 830 @ $300 outright, available at Microsoft store and BestBuy/Futureshop unlocked...it might actually do somewhat well. But they're pricing it at $400 carrier locked, no unlocked avaliable which isnt good considering the contract BYOP offers $10 off each month for services.

    Im eagerly waiting for WP10, hoping a Surface Phone comes out and its stellar...but my hope has run dry as the last 3 years i spent a lot of time defending an OS which i cannot defend anymore. my fingers are crossed they will return and dominate in some way. Exclusive killer Apps (including Xbox mobile games, COME ON!) and expanding the photography are key for MS, i really do hope they make the right decisions and stop giving people the impression their always chasing their competitors tails. Be a leader for G sakes.
    10-14-2014 02:19 PM
  20. spaulagain's Avatar
    Most recently the trend with peoples confidence in Microsoft has been what seems to be a lack of confidence on their side of things. Myself and some of my peers purchased Surface Pro 2's only 6 months later to be treated by a slap in the face Surface Pro 3, which if all of us knew the Pro 3 was right around the corner we would have waited and been content. I love my Pro 2, but some of my friends who took my input were really upset that a much better update was recently so soon (every 12 months is the expected timeframe, not half the time period).

    From that point on my friends, whom were Android and Apple fans opening up to considering Microsoft saw a lack of confidence from the companies decisions. Then came the EoL news about the L1020 (which i think turned out to be false, but still the perception this left with techies wasnt good), no announcements of new high end flagship phones other than the 930 which received negative reception high number of hardware defects, Denim major updates not available for all 8.1 devices and finally WP10 potentially not available for all WP8 devices (not that this was confirmed, but in their opinion nothing MS says anymore is viable and can be taken truthful). Again, this is the perception of my peers and not a general statement trim everyone...but you can see where even the potential consumers have slowly walked away. It seems its not because WP is BAD, but it's MS's decisions that have left many unsure of WP's existence, or lack there of.
    Getting upset over a new product release is just silly. This happens all the time in every industry. Ya, the SP3 came out a few months earlier than normal, but they appear to be moving towards Spring releases anyways. So they had to do it at some point.

    There has been 0 evidence that WP8 device will not update to W10. Anyone claiming as such is just spreading FUD. In fact, MS has publicly state that W10 will be on everything, including IoT devices. So if it can work on something smaller, with probably less hardware specs like a watch, then it can probably work just fine on a Lumia 520.

    It's sounds to me like your friends are just fear mongers. Or they got burned by MS in the past and can't get their **** unhurt.
    10-14-2014 02:36 PM
  21. Hotvak123's Avatar
    Verizon sells 36 smart phones 5 are apple, 4 are windows, 2 by HTC, 1 by nokia, 1 by samsung , and 27 androids. att is not much better.
    If I owned that store I would personally own a windows phone, love the simplicity of it, but my inventory investment in the phone would dictate I sell the android first regardless on how I felt about it. on the other hand when I have a line of customers standing outside the door looking to buy the IPhone on release day, then apple goes to the top of the list. the windows phone would have to sit on the side lines. I mean how much money can I make off the 4 window phone inventory compared to the 32 other system I have. My other fear would be that the windows phone would take off , and I be stuck with the other phones. so If you want wp to take off then demand has to come up , and the only way I see it happening is by all of us window phone users show everybody how grate windows phone is, and sell them on it. Then maybe when they look for upgrade they think of the windows phone.
    10-14-2014 04:26 PM
  22. LumiaIcon's Avatar
    What do you define as "taking off"? Please remember that the Market is not just the US of A.
    #1 Consumer market in the world... Not really the one you want to go into the dirt on. Pretty sure they could survive bad sales in Ghana but the U.S... Not so much.
    10-14-2014 05:51 PM
  23. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    Ok, spill. What sort of hardware is needed throughout your fleet?
    To give you one high-level example, there is a dedicated workstation which does heavy monitoring of reactor head, analyzing isotopes and chemical elements for the chemistry department. It also monitors the health of the full bundles and status of the control rods for reactor engineering.

    The way it processes the data and how it feeds our PI system and the requirements set upon all sites by the NRC, make Apple a non-player. Yes, OSX could handle the requirements if A) Apple loosened the grip on customizing the OS B) Apple allowed installation of OSX on non-Apple configured hardware such as the $7000 workstation I mentioned above C) the software required to do the items above existed for OSX (currently only for Windows and SUSE Linux for back end work).
    10-16-2014 08:45 AM
  24. neo158's Avatar
    I apologise if I hurt any die hard Windows Phone fans here, but I have a list of reasons why I believe Windows Phone doesn't take off and some suggestions to go along with them as we'll.

    Windows Phone is a bit odd of an OS. Android is often described as a complicated but highly customisable and functional software whereas iOS is described as a much simpler phone that just works.

    Windows Phone is nor as easy to use as iOS, nor as functional as some other OSes out there it has nothing going for it.

    But...this could be used for marketing to show what Windows Phone is truly good at - providing a balance between simplicity, beauty and customisation but I have yet to see this sort of thing advertised(they have mentioned it in a few YouTube videos though).

    Moving onwards and elaborating on the same point, Windows Phone or at least part of it has revolved around photography and I'll admit that it did a much better job than Android for as long as I can remember. But sadly they've fallen short there as well, with iOS taking the lead again with arguably the best camera API out there that is used to create amazing apps like Instagram Hyperlapse.

    And then once you overcome those shortcomings you'll be faced with a massive shortage of applications, primarily quality gaming titles. And that's not all...even if you find your necessary apps they'll usually be months behind their iOS and Android counterparts.

    Once you've come ahead of the apps and games, then there is the social aspect, the likely scenario is that most of your friends own either an Android or iOS device and you'll feel left out or even ridiculed for having a Windows Phone.

    Plus Microsoft's services aren't offered in many countries, case in point Cortana and HERE Maps(I'm sure there are others) and you can't use Google services either.

    Linus Sebastian, arguably one of the funniest and most well educated reviewers also conveys his thoughts about Windows Phone in this video:

    And lastly Windows Phone is still somewhat playing catch up with Android and iOS, lacking quite a lot of features that the competition has.
    I'm sure there are aspects Windows Phone does better, the cameras is one things, but to make a phone or OS sell well you need to excel in most things not just a few.

    This is what I believe, I have more reasons but I'm sure no one would want to read a much longer post. Again, I can be wrong but this is what I think having used Windows Phone for some time.
    That review wasn't the worst I've seen and he does bring up a few interesting points, but some of the points he makes show a lack of knowledge. For example he states that he had signed in using the same account that's on his 8x and had to reinstall his apps manually, this begs the question of why didn't he restore from a backup? or why didn't he use the my apps section of the store to reinstall them?

    One of the points he made was about email and how after looking at it from the notification there is no way back to the inbox, that's fine because there isn't, but Android has the same behaviour and the back and forward arrows on the app bar are for navigating between email anyway. The other point was about drafts, I wonder if he realised that you need to sync the folder using the button on the app bar initially?

    He also makes a point about how slow he perceives dialling a contact is on WP, has he even used the Speed Dial section in the phone, that would have made it Tap on Phone > Swipe to speed dial > tap contact. No need for T9 input and much faster than Android.
    10-16-2014 09:17 AM
  25. iamtim's Avatar
    To give you one high-level example, there is a dedicated workstation which does heavy monitoring of reactor head, analyzing isotopes and chemical elements for the chemistry department. It also monitors the health of the full bundles and status of the control rods for reactor engineering.
    That doesn't answer my question. I'm curious as to what actual hardware is needed by your fleet which cannot connect to Mac hardware, which is essentially the same hardware as PC hardware.

    the software required to do the items above existed for OSX
    Yeah, I'm not talking about the software; everyone knows that if a proprietary, industry-specific application isn't developed for a given platform, well, it isn't developed for that given platform. I'm asking about the hardware only, which you said the Mac just can't handle.
    10-16-2014 10:32 AM
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