12-12-2014 09:19 AM
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  1. agentmikeyd99's Avatar
    If MS doesn't act soon, will never attract new customers and many longtime ones like me will leave. The software is great, but US consumers demand new hardware. This business model is horrible and the results (sales) are abysmal, and that is without debate. Soon Windows phones will be relegated to only low end devices for second world countries.
    10-26-2014 11:07 AM
  2. JamesDax's Avatar
    if ms doesn't act soon, will never attract new customers and many longtime ones like me will leave. The software is great, but us consumers demand new hardware. This business model is horrible and the results (sales) are abysmal, and that is without debate. Soon windows phones will be relegated to only low end devices for second world countries.
    lol
    HoosierDaddy likes this.
    10-27-2014 05:02 AM
  3. paulxxwall's Avatar
    All else fails Nokia thinking about return in 2016 ...the majority in the us are on carriers.....att has one soon the m8 but even that phone is old ....verizon...soon to be only one ...T-Mobile none....sprint......none yeah so many choices ...were acting like used car buyers.....maybe not new ...but new to them.....at least iPhone users know they'll get something different every year hopefully things change but don't think so....
    10-27-2014 07:02 AM
  4. MikeSo's Avatar
    If MS doesn't act soon, will never attract new customers and many longtime ones like me will leave. The software is great, but US consumers demand new hardware. This business model is horrible and the results (sales) are abysmal, and that is without debate. Soon Windows phones will be relegated to only low end devices for second world countries.
    It's not the hardware specs that will make or break WP. It's apps and accessories. The Icon is still a competitive phone hardware wise, but of course with only Lumia Black and 8.0 on it it's an impossible sale (just like the mid level 925 and 928). We have few apps and accessories as it is, and those we do have now require WP 8.1. The equation doesn't add up. I'm sorry to say it, but I think WP is a dead man walking at this point unless something dramatic happens... or they stay on life support until WP 10, and that somehow becomes attractive for 3rd party developers.
    Bodeanicus likes this.
    10-27-2014 12:59 PM
  5. silvertonesx24's Avatar
    Exactly what premium features are you missing? I have a 2 year old Lumia 920. It has an HD screen, NFC, 32gb + streaming services is plenty of space, wireless charging, a good-in-most-situations rear camera, and a lousy front camera I never use. It runs the latest Dev Preview OS and Cyan. I kind of wish it had a microSD slot, but that wouldn't be really cutting edge, would it? OTG functionality would work fine, if available. The only thing I feel it is really missing is a decent battery life.

    The features that sell (to the masses, not the cutting edge nerds) are those that are actually life-improving. Yes, I don't think my 920 has a sapphire/Gorilla Glass 3, but there aren't any scratches on it after 2 years, so I really don't care.
    10-27-2014 01:14 PM
  6. surfacedude's Avatar
    Exactly what premium features are you missing? I have a 2 year old Lumia 920. It has an HD screen, NFC, 32gb + streaming services is plenty of space, wireless charging, a good-in-most-situations rear camera, and a lousy front camera I never use. It runs the latest Dev Preview OS and Cyan. I kind of wish it had a microSD slot, but that wouldn't be really cutting edge, would it? OTG functionality would work fine, if available. The only thing I feel it is really missing is a decent battery life.

    The features that sell (to the masses, not the cutting edge nerds) are those that are actually life-improving. Yes, I don't think my 920 has a sapphire/Gorilla Glass 3, but there aren't any scratches on it after 2 years, so I really don't care.
    i have a 920 and i'd love it to be quicker, same for the camera. i'd also like a better rear and front cameras. longer battery life with be awesome. better speakers would be nice. i'd like a full 1080p screen and i'd like to be able to shoot 4k video, too. my phone is about two years old and the screen has scratches, so i for one would like sapphire or gorrilla glass 3.

    those are just a few things right off the top of my head. i love the 920, but i'm also ready for an upgrade and i'm a tech geek. i want a great ui and i like devices that incorporate the latest tech. what's wrong with that? you may think the latest a greatest is just for geeks, but that the stuff that often gets pushed by sales people and tech reviewers so we're not simply talking about a niche market.
    Last edited by surfacedude; 10-29-2014 at 08:50 AM.
    Joe Dubya and prasath1234 like this.
    10-27-2014 03:30 PM
  7. colinkiama's Avatar
    i have a 920 and i'd love it to be quicker, same for the camera. i'd also like a better rear and front cameras. longer battery life with be awesome. better speakers would be nice. i'd like a full 1080p screen and i'd like to be able to shoot 4k video, too. my phone is about two years old and the screen has scratches, so i for one would like sapphire or gorrilla glass 3.

    those are just a few things right off the top of my head. i love the 920, but i'm also ready for an upgrade and i'm a tech geek. i want a great ui and i like devices that incorporate the latest tech. what's wrong with that? you may think the latest a greatest is just for geeks, but that the stuff that often gets pushed by sales people and tech reviewers so we're simply talking about a niche market.
    1520 and 930/icon are getting 4k recording with denim. They have a 1080p screen and better battery life than the. 920.
    surfacedude likes this.
    10-28-2014 07:09 AM
  8. waazzupppp's Avatar
    The History of "Premium Windows Phones"

    November 2012
    Nokia Lumia 920 - Sold ok, but not in the numbers that were expected (AT&T only US)
    Debuted at $199 for 32GB on contract - Currently $250 no contract

    HTC 8X - Sold poorly across 3 carriers - special version for Sprint is still available (8/13)
    Debuted at $199 for 16GB on contract - Currently $150 no contract

    June 2013
    Nokia Lumia 925 & 928 - None of this line sold well - the 925 (US) was crippled with 16GB of internal memory and the 928 was doomed by the Icon rumors that hit almost the same time as its release. The T-Mobile 925 was EOL'd after 6 months. AT&T followed shortly there after.

    July 2013
    Lumia 1020 - a niche market phone that sold well to phoneographers - but that's it. Limited storage (32GB no SD) made this 41MP shooter almost worthless to the average vacationing consumer. Lack of USB OTG made dumping photos impossible on the go, unless you took your computer with you.

    November 2013
    Lumia 1520 - the phablet arrived... That is all. The release of another "exclusive" device on AT&T came with a ton of fanfare, but even today's commercials show the state of wireless in the US... You know the one that has the guy walking into the AT&T store only to have the person say, "Yes, we have the new iPhone." To me, the 1520 failed because all it did was 'upscale' Windows Phone to a larger format. I couldn't get more tiles on screen. I couldn't resize text to be smaller in the browser. Everything was just bigger - and for most users, the 1520 was too big.

    February 2014
    Lumia Icon - Already EOL'd by Verizon...

    August 2014
    HTC One M8 for Windows - The M8 has been beat up for the reset issue, having a lackluster camera and not being as 'good' as a Lumia. The fact is, the M8 is a gorgeous piece of hardware with a not-so-great OS on board. Yes, I said that. The Android version is about as good as a phone gets and the Windows Phone version is pretty close to it, but not there yet.

    Here's the issue as I see it...

    Microsoft is selling a ton (and by ton I mean 10 million handsets in 3 months vs. Apple's 10 million in 3 days) of sub $100 handsets. The problem is that people are buying them to tie them over until they can get 'a real phone'. Trust me, my nephew did it and my nieces did it. The 52x series was cheap and worked, but they got their iPhones back ASAP. Microsoft isn't selling the Premium handsets like they thought they would. It's time to decided if they are going to move forward or if they are going to just release services for everyone else.

    Their newest lineup, due out soon will have the mid-range 830 (AT&T) at the top, the 735 (T-Mobile) heading up the middle range and the 635's floating in the $100 market. The 530 series will be the sub $100 level device and be a favorite of the non-contract crowd. I don't see Sprint being a player with Windows Phone much longer since the 8XT didn't move well and they were so slow to adopt in the first place. Verizon has the current flagship in the M8 and only time will tell how long that device holds on. Hopefully, by relaxing the hardware standards and using the M8 as a test case, some of the Android powerhouse devices will just get ported to Windows Phone. I think that's the only chance there is of having any more premium devices roll out.
    10-28-2014 12:01 PM
  9. chezm's Avatar
    I think the biggest concern for a lot of people (i know it was my concern as well as my buddies concern that still has a L1020) is not knowing which devices will work properly (and by properly, i dont mean chugging or laggy performance issues) with Windows (Phone) 10. Sure, all WP8 devices will get W10 but locking into a 2 year contract with unknowing whether the phone will support the next major OS properly is a big deal for a lot. For some they dont care, and those are the ones getting defensive regarding this topic.

    "Microsoft said all devices will get WP10 update!" - ya well you know what, MS hasn't always stood by their promises and saying devices will get it doesnt necessarily mean it will work well. Obviously it could all go well in the end, but thats still an unknown.

    "WP8.1 is great and i dont need anything else!" - good for you, not everyone feels that well...WP fans included (eventhough im using an Android i still consider myself a "fan" of the WP OS). I feel the Start Screen was nice 2 years ago but its starting to get stale and could use some refreshing...i actually like the still pic shown for the W10 ad. So maybe your current device runs WP8.1 Cyan well, lucky you...mine didn't and it drove me nuts. Personal experience here, not generalizing WP.

    "Extreme Specs are needed to run Android's OS" - maybe thats the case for OEM branded Android but stock android is perfectly fine running latest OS on both Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices (both specs arent out of the world). I have around 20 apps with notifications running, all properly without any major problems or lag issues...My nexus 5 running 4.4.4 is lightening fast, seamless and a pure joy to use compared to my previous Android GS3 (Samsung, ugh). Not saying its better than WP, just straightening out this bold claim everyone runs back to constantly on this site.

    So maybe WP doesnt need the premium phone, high end space...and thats great if it works for MS and its userbase. Again my only major concern is W10 and when its released for mobile.
    Bodeanicus likes this.
    10-28-2014 12:39 PM
  10. JamesDax's Avatar
    Again, there are currently 3 premium WP devices available and all 3 will get Windows 10.
    10-28-2014 05:11 PM
  11. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    November 2013
    Lumia 1520 - the phablet arrived... That is all. The release of another "exclusive" device on AT&T came with a ton of fanfare, but even today's commercials show the state of wireless in the US... You know the one that has the guy walking into the AT&T store only to have the person say, "Yes, we have the new iPhone." To me, the 1520 failed because all it did was 'upscale' Windows Phone to a larger format. I couldn't get more tiles on screen. I couldn't resize text to be smaller in the browser. Everything was just bigger - and for most users, the 1520 was too big.
    I think you're selling the 1520 a little short. Before 8.1 came out the 1520 was the only device that had 3 columns. It also had the first quad core cpu and the first 20MP camera for a WP. I do agree though that it's simply too big for most and should've been released alongside a smaller alternative.
    10-28-2014 05:26 PM
  12. UncleGrandpa's Avatar
    I'd dump my icon for the new Motorola Turbo in a heartbeat.
    10-29-2014 04:57 AM
  13. JamesDax's Avatar
    I think you're selling the 1520 a little short. Before 8.1 came out the 1520 was the only device that had 3 columns. It also had the first quad core cpu and the first 20MP camera for a WP. I do agree though that it's simply too big for most and should've been released alongside a smaller alternative.
    Like the 930?
    10-29-2014 06:32 AM
  14. JamesDax's Avatar
    And? It's pretty obvious that no one but hardcore Microsoft fans want them. One of them has been EOL'd.
    The 930 is not EOL'd.
    10-29-2014 06:33 AM
  15. JamesDax's Avatar
    I'd dump my icon for the new Motorola Turbo in a heartbeat.
    What's stopping you?
    10-29-2014 06:33 AM
  16. mj0's Avatar
    To be honest I'm not convinced yet that flagship phones is where it's at. Sure, they're a nice marketing instrument and help forming, changing, or boosting a certain image but let's be honest - how many people in your circle of friends actually care about flagship phones? When looking at my friends I see tons of different smartphones but rarely one that costs a significant amount of money. It's mostly cheap Samsung Android smartphones, a couple of iPhones, one or two Windows Phones (albeit they're pretty old as well, two of my friends are still using their Lumia 800 and are quite happy). Granted, there are maybe two or three (former) flagship phones such as the Galaxy S3/S4 or a Sony Xperia Z2 but those are definitely exceptions. It'd be interesting to see a few numbers on this. What's the actual market share for flagship phones? How many of them were sold when they were still considered a flagship phone and how many were sold months later when they have either already been replaced by a successor or other flagship competitors? How much money do Samsung/Sony/LG/Nokia/etc. make with flagship phones vs. your average affordable (aka cheap) run-of-the-mill smartphone?

    I don't have these numbers at hand but I'm willing to bet that they make more money selling cheap simple smartphones than the occasional flagship that only nerds really care for.
    10-29-2014 07:12 AM
  17. paulxxwall's Avatar
    The 930 is not EOL'd.
    Sorry to inform you but the 930 which is the icon here in the us is being eold just in case you didn't know . Not many here in the us buy unlocked.....i don't.... I'm on att.....all we have is the 1520.....maybe soon the m8.....for those on Verizon....now....only one as the will axe the icon.....for sprint customers....none.....T-Mobile.......nope nah.....so for the billions of us in the us that buy from carriers .....how many premium WP do have to choose from again......i counted 2.....1520....m8
    10-29-2014 07:29 AM
  18. mj0's Avatar
    JEBUS! What's wrong with your "." key? It seems to randomly act up rendering your posts unreadable. You should look into that
    MikeSo and Silence#WP like this.
    10-29-2014 08:12 AM
  19. Zulfigar's Avatar
    Sorry to inform you but the 930 which is the icon here in the us is being eold just in case you didn't know . Not many here in the us buy unlocked.....i don't.... I'm on att.....all we have is the 1520.....maybe soon the m8.....for those on Verizon....now....only one as the will axe the icon.....for sprint customers....none.....T-Mobile.......nope nah.....so for the billions of us in the us that buy from carriers .....how many premium WP do have to choose from again......i counted 2.....1520....m8
    Lets see, we can get the 530 all the way up to the 1520, on every carrier too. Isn't it nice to have unlocked phones? I've been using a 920 on T-Mobile for almost a year, and it hasn't failed me yet.

    Why limit yourself?
    10-29-2014 08:14 AM
  20. surfacedude's Avatar
    1520 and 930/icon are getting 4k recording with denim. They have a 1080p screen and better battery life than the. 920.
    the 1520 is just too big, imo. i don't want a phone that big. i wish the 930 or some variant were on att. i get it in a heart beat. i'll probably end up going with the 830 only because i need a new phone and at the moment there aren't any new high end wp phones on the horizon for att. or i might stick it out w/ my 920 and see what happens early 2015.
    10-29-2014 08:54 AM
  21. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Sorry to inform you but the 930 which is the icon here in the us is being eold just in case you didn't know . Not many here in the us buy unlocked.....i don't.... I'm on att.....all we have is the 1520.....maybe soon the m8.....for those on Verizon....now....only one as the will axe the icon.....for sprint customers....none.....T-Mobile.......nope nah.....so for the billions of us in the us that buy from carriers .....how many premium WP do have to choose from again......i counted 2.....1520....m8
    Uh, you sound like the guy in the joke who tells his doctor it hurts when he does "this". Just because you (or billions) choose to buy from a carrier doesn't mean its smart or that they aren't responsible for all the downsides.

    If it hurts, just stop doing it.
    10-29-2014 09:24 AM
  22. colinkiama's Avatar
    the 1520 is just too big, imo. i don't want a phone that big. i wish the 930 or some variant were on att. i get it in a heart beat. i'll probably end up going with the 830 only because i need a new phone and at the moment there aren't any new high end wp phones on the horizon for att. or i might stick it out w/ my 920 and see what happens early 2015.
    You could always get a 930 unlocked but sacrifice no LTE. Atmleast you'll get your updates on time.
    10-29-2014 09:39 AM
  23. smittybacall's Avatar
    The History of "Premium Windows Phones"

    November 2012
    Nokia Lumia 920 - Sold ok, but not in the numbers that were expected (AT&T only US)
    Debuted at $199 for 32GB on contract - Currently $250 no contract

    HTC 8X - Sold poorly across 3 carriers - special version for Sprint is still available (8/13)
    Debuted at $199 for 16GB on contract - Currently $150 no contract

    June 2013
    Nokia Lumia 925 & 928 - None of this line sold well - the 925 (US) was crippled with 16GB of internal memory and the 928 was doomed by the Icon rumors that hit almost the same time as its release. The T-Mobile 925 was EOL'd after 6 months. AT&T followed shortly there after.

    July 2013
    Lumia 1020 - a niche market phone that sold well to phoneographers - but that's it. Limited storage (32GB no SD) made this 41MP shooter almost worthless to the average vacationing consumer. Lack of USB OTG made dumping photos impossible on the go, unless you took your computer with you.

    November 2013
    Lumia 1520 - the phablet arrived... That is all. The release of another "exclusive" device on AT&T came with a ton of fanfare, but even today's commercials show the state of wireless in the US... You know the one that has the guy walking into the AT&T store only to have the person say, "Yes, we have the new iPhone." To me, the 1520 failed because all it did was 'upscale' Windows Phone to a larger format. I couldn't get more tiles on screen. I couldn't resize text to be smaller in the browser. Everything was just bigger - and for most users, the 1520 was too big.

    February 2014
    Lumia Icon - Already EOL'd by Verizon...

    August 2014
    HTC One M8 for Windows - The M8 has been beat up for the reset issue, having a lackluster camera and not being as 'good' as a Lumia. The fact is, the M8 is a gorgeous piece of hardware with a not-so-great OS on board. Yes, I said that. The Android version is about as good as a phone gets and the Windows Phone version is pretty close to it, but not there yet.

    Here's the issue as I see it...

    Microsoft is selling a ton (and by ton I mean 10 million handsets in 3 months vs. Apple's 10 million in 3 days) of sub $100 handsets. The problem is that people are buying them to tie them over until they can get 'a real phone'. Trust me, my nephew did it and my nieces did it. The 52x series was cheap and worked, but they got their iPhones back ASAP. Microsoft isn't selling the Premium handsets like they thought they would. It's time to decided if they are going to move forward or if they are going to just release services for everyone else.

    Their newest lineup, due out soon will have the mid-range 830 (AT&T) at the top, the 735 (T-Mobile) heading up the middle range and the 635's floating in the $100 market. The 530 series will be the sub $100 level device and be a favorite of the non-contract crowd. I don't see Sprint being a player with Windows Phone much longer since the 8XT didn't move well and they were so slow to adopt in the first place. Verizon has the current flagship in the M8 and only time will tell how long that device holds on. Hopefully, by relaxing the hardware standards and using the M8 as a test case, some of the Android powerhouse devices will just get ported to Windows Phone. I think that's the only chance there is of having any more premium devices roll out.
    Absolutely nailed it, waazzupppp. Thank you.
    To add to this, you can also witness how the marketing strategy from MM(Microsoft Mobile)/Nokia has evolved.
    Last year, they promoted the 1020 with it's camera features. Meanwhile the sales trend of the WP Devices in the US constantly improved over the 5XX and the 6XX series. Guess which handset is featured competing against Siri in the latest ads?
    Instead there is an upgrade (read: new color) for the 1520 this year. Pathetic.
    10-29-2014 11:39 AM
  24. JamesDax's Avatar
    Sorry to inform you but the 930 which is the icon here in the us is being eold just in case you didn't know . Not many here in the us buy unlocked.....i don't.... I'm on att.....all we have is the 1520.....maybe soon the m8.....for those on Verizon....now....only one as the will axe the icon.....for sprint customers....none.....T-Mobile.......nope nah.....so for the billions of us in the us that buy from carriers .....how many premium WP do have to choose from again......i counted 2.....1520....m8
    Never the less, the 930 Is Not EOL'd.
    10-29-2014 12:20 PM
  25. OldMillXxX's Avatar
    "They might as well stop caring about the carriers at all and sell everything online at microsoftstore.com or amazon.com. I'm not sure there would be much difference in sales numbers. "

    This is what I would like to see. Make phones that people WANT, sell them in your own stores (order what you need for said carrier GSM/CDMA), and cut the carriers out of the phone subsidy completely. BYOD to each carrier and simply buy their service. I would 100% support a plan like this.
    10-29-2014 12:39 PM
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