1. Paul Verizzo's Avatar
    Not so much a question, but an observation. I did not know where else to post (by phone model? By OS? By firmware?) that wasn't too narrow.

    After downloading the new T-Movile 925 official update, the debate about is it Denim, as claimed on Extras, or Cyan, is rancorous. Is to! Is not! As has been know for almost two weeks that there was a premature application Extras upgrade that, well, lied to us. But that was then, this is now.

    So I went to Nokia and found information on the Denim and Cyan upgrades. Well, guess what, kiddies? There is no firm boundary between the firmware (Amber, Black, Cyan, Denim) and the OS, anymore! And that's not even counting what Preview for Developers adds into the cauldron!

    Here's the Denim release page: http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/09/04/lumia-denim-update/ Notice phrases like, " Lumia Denim Update combines new enhancements from the latest Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1." All of the non-camera features listed have been in PforD for several months, on Black, even. The new Denim Lumia camera features appear to require the newer faster processor. Fair enough, so my Denim may not be the same as your Denim!

    The Lumia Cyan page, http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/07/15/lumia-cyan-update/ is similar in that all of the features were incorporated into PforD 8.1 for months running under Black.

    So how much of my 925's new update, official from TMO instead of PforD, is genetically 8.1? Cyan? Denim? And parts of Denim aren't included because of the processor!

    For months I couldn't understand the craving on these forums for Cyan while so many WP's were hobbling along under old 8.0. I tell you, if MS hadn't come out with PforD 8.1, my Windows Phones would have been out the door long ago.

    So, at this time, I care not a whit about the firmware designation, just give me great OS updates.
    10-29-2014 07:48 PM
  2. adrian1338's Avatar
    It is called DP - Developer Preview
    10-30-2014 06:38 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    So I went to Nokia and found information on the Denim and Cyan upgrades. Well, guess what, kiddies? There is no firm boundary between the firmware (Amber, Black, Cyan, Denim) and the OS, anymore!.

    This is not quite correct.

    The official Nokia updates distributed and sanctioned by carriers are these Black, Cyan and Denim updates. These include not JUST firmware, but also the OS. This is how everyone not on the developer preview (the vast majority), receives the updated OS version. As such, it makes sense for Nokia to list all these OS features as part of their own (i.e. Denim) update. To you, who are already on the developer preview, only very small part of that update (just the firmware) has any affect.

    That doesn't mean there is no clear delineation between the two.
    10-30-2014 06:58 AM
  4. anaheiim's Avatar
    ​The (updated) firmware does not contain (updates) OS, they are simply DL the same time. These are two separate entities to one another. There is even what may be considered a "sub-firmware" Qualcomm.
    10-30-2014 08:15 AM
  5. Paul Verizzo's Avatar
    It is called DP - Developer Preview
    I "love it" when someone thinks they are right when the absolute, incontrovertible proof is right in front of them. Go to your apps list, and there it is, "Preview for Developers." Now, I understand that many in the forums have abbreviated it to DP, implying Developer Preview, but that is no more correct that Bob is for Robert.
    10-30-2014 09:20 AM
  6. Paul Verizzo's Avatar
    This is not quite correct.

    The official Nokia updates distributed and sanctioned by carriers are these Black, Cyan and Denim updates. These include not JUST firmware, but also the OS. This is how everyone not on the developer preview (the vast majority), receives the updated OS version. As such, it makes sense for Nokia to list all these OS features as part of their own (i.e. Denim) update. To you, who are already on the developer preview, only very small part of that update (just the firmware) has any affect.

    That doesn't mean there is no clear delineation between the two.
    I think you just made my point. See today's posting from me.
    10-30-2014 09:21 AM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    I think you just made my point. See today's posting from me.

    Okay, I guess I didn't understand you point then. All's well that ends well 😉
    10-30-2014 09:25 AM
  8. Paul Verizzo's Avatar
    OK, Kiddies! Are you ready for this confounder?

    I got my other 925 back from Nokia repair. It had an 8.0 version on it. Without a SIM card in it even, it updated to the "pre 8.1" update, then the full 8.1 Monty. At the end of the process, ta ta, CYAN! Unlike my other 925 that ran DforP which says it's on Denim. Extras + Info shows two quite different OS numbers, despite having the same TMO ROM. They do have the same firmware numbers.

    No further updates available on either phone. I put a TMO SIM into the Cyan phone and no further updates available. Is it possible that TMO/Nokia caught the Denim update and set things back to Cyan? Or, did having PforD on my first phone somehow kick it into Denim?

    I know someone will scream again that I don't really have Denim, but when my phone says I do, and I have different, later, version numbers for a number of components per Extras+Info I have Denim.
    10-30-2014 09:34 AM
  9. Paul Verizzo's Avatar
    Okay, I guess I didn't understand you point then. All's well that ends well
    You bet! We each get to live in our own version of reality!
    10-30-2014 09:35 AM

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