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  1. EspHack's Avatar
    As we already know, Microsoft has uservoice suggestion pages for most major software brands, and we also have one big problem in common; getting lumia firmware on time, because of carrier locked phones we have to wait ridiculous amounts of time, now I think we can change this, for the last few months we had the option to update the OS to the latest version right after Microsoft uploads it with the developer preview program, and avoiding carrier's intervention entirely, it would be a perfect solution if we could also download the latest lumia firmware through this program, since Microsoft owns the lumia team now all we have to do is "suggest" Microsoft to make it happen.

    This is a vital step forward, getting rid of carriers that get in the way of windows phone's progress

    here is a suggestion for this very same issue on windows phone's uservoice;
    https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...ware-for-lumia

    All you have to do is sign in with your Microsoft account at the top right edge of the page and give it 3 votes, it already has over 5k, so it clearly is important for a lot of people, and specially wcentral guys I guess.

    Thank you for your time, mods feel free to move this thread accordingly if this section isn't appropriate for this subject.
    11-14-2014 03:13 PM
  2. ven07's Avatar
    Not sure if it will be possible to remove carriers entirely
    11-14-2014 03:24 PM
  3. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    Not sure if it will be possible to remove carriers entirely
    The fact that people can and do use unbranded phones on all carriers (except CDMA) proves it can be done.
    ven07 likes this.
    11-14-2014 03:33 PM
  4. ven07's Avatar
    Lol ok you got me there, but it's a business and I doubt they will take this lying down and above all else, this would require every other platform to the same, otherwise the impact is very minimal. Carriers could ultimately decide to drop wp... Not that many carriers believe in WP anyways
    11-14-2014 03:42 PM
  5. badcat's Avatar
    Done. I figure it can't hurt.
    11-14-2014 04:00 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    Technically easily possible. Legally I think this is very unlikely. I doubt U.S. carriers would play along, and to a degree that would be understandable.
    ven07 and N_LaRUE like this.
    11-14-2014 04:01 PM
  7. EspHack's Avatar
    @ven07: I really wish they drop WP... and iOS & Android for that matter, that's how it should be

    As for the legal part, are carriers considered software companies? No, I don't think it is illegal to install software on your own device, software you already paid for when you bought the phone

    After all, the preview for developers program clearly avoids any confrontation with legal issues since it states its purpose is to let "developers" try non-finished software at their own risk, just as flashing a rom or unlocking your bootloader isn't considered illegal, though it voids your carrier's warranty, same thing here
    11-14-2014 04:54 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    As for the legal part, are carriers considered software companies? No, I don't think it is illegal to install software on your own device, software you already paid for when you bought the phone

    After all, the preview for developers program clearly avoids any confrontation with legal issues since it states its purpose is to let "developers" try non-finished software at their own risk, just as flashing a rom or unlocking your bootloader isn't considered illegal, though it voids your carrier's warranty, same thing here
    In the U.S. carriers decide what may and what may not connect to their networks. You can install whatever you want on your device, but carriers decide if that device will ever have cellular network service.

    Carriers are not legally required to allow something like a developer preview program. Everything depends on carriers agreeing to it, or at least turning a blind eye.
    11-15-2014 01:07 AM
  9. EspHack's Avatar
    In the U.S. carriers decide what may and what may not connect to their networks. You can install whatever you want on your device, but carriers decide if that device will ever have cellular network service.

    Carriers are not legally required to allow something like a developer preview program. Everything depends on carriers agreeing to it, or at least turning a blind eye.
    As long as I insert their damn SIM in my phone and PAY it will work, they don't even know what phone I'm using
    11-15-2014 09:13 AM
  10. ven07's Avatar
    11-15-2014 09:51 AM
  11. EspHack's Avatar
    ^Excellent news, that's only the natural path going forward now that Microsoft owns Lumia, we are just making sure it happens with this suggestion
    anon(9174535) and ven07 like this.
    11-15-2014 11:09 AM
  12. ven07's Avatar
    You foretold the future! Now if you could only tell us who will win the next election, we'd be set xd
    11-15-2014 01:13 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    As long as I insert their damn SIM in my phone and PAY it will work, they don't even know what phone I'm using
    I work for a carrier and I can assure you that is incorrect. Carriers can identify every device on their network, monitor the traffic they generate, and block any device where that is deemed necessary.

    That isn't really the point though. What a few smartphone geeks do with their devices, as long as it does no harm, isn't that important. It's the other 95% that matter, and they are easily deterred by voiding warranties or potentially losing support. If MS wants their OS updates to reach everyone, and do so reliably, MS must have agreements in place with the carriers.

    I still very much doubt that carriers will allow MS to deploy whatever they want to millions of devices, without at least some carrier testing and validation occurring. So, if MS can include firmware in the dev preview, which would be great, I'd be very surprised if there were no strings attached. I wish that were not true, but I don't see carriers relinquishing control just out of the goodness of their hearts.
    11-15-2014 05:48 PM
  14. ven07's Avatar
    I work for a carrier and I can assure you that is incorrect. Carriers can identify every device on their network, monitor the traffic they generate, and block any device where that is deemed necessary.

    That isn't really the point though. What a few smartphone geeks do with their devices, as long as it does no harm, isn't that important. It's the other 95% that matter, and they are easily deterred by voiding warranties or potentially losing support. If MS wants their OS updates to reach everyone, and do so reliably, MS must have agreements in place with the carriers.

    I still very much doubt that carriers will allow MS to deploy whatever they want to millions of devices, without at least some carrier testing and validation occurring. So, if MS can include firmware in the dev preview, which would be great, I'd be very surprised if there were no strings attached. I wish that were not true, but I don't see carriers relinquishing control just out of the goodness of their hearts.
    Business 101 lol
    11-15-2014 06:47 PM
  15. EspHack's Avatar
    well I don't know how much they can see or do about it, but as far as I know all they take from me is an IMEI which tells them nothing, so unless I bought the phone from them, in which case its IMEI and most data should be in their database, I don't see how they can identify a phone by looking at its IMEI or whatever, its like saying you know my computer by looking at my current IP or MAC, maybe a MAC address can tell you what network card im using, in this case it would tell them I've a QUALCOMM LTE modem which is just as useless
    11-15-2014 11:48 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    well I don't know how much they can see or do about it, but as far as I know all they take from me is an IMEI which tells them nothing, so unless I bought the phone from them, in which case its IMEI and most data should be in their database, I don't see how they can identify a phone by looking at its IMEI or whatever, its like saying you know my computer by looking at my current IP or MAC, maybe a MAC address can tell you what network card im using, in this case it would tell them I've a QUALCOMM LTE modem which is just as useless
    It's true that carriers maintain a lot of data for each device they sell, which is associated with each device's IMEI. However, a lot can be gleaned from an IMEI even without access to that data, because an IMEI isn't just an arbitrary/sequential number (neither is a MAC address BTW). For example, the first few digits of an IMEI (and it's CDMA counterpart) codifies a device's make and model. More advanced methods exist, but that alone is already enough for any carrier in the world to instantly identify your phone the second it establishes a connection.
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-16-2014 at 01:00 PM. Reason: spelling
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    11-16-2014 11:57 AM
  17. jamie johnston's Avatar
    It's true that carriers maintain a lot of data for each device they sell, which is associated with each device's IMEI. However, a lot can be gleaned from an IMEI even without access to that data, because an IMEI isn't just an arbitrary/sequential number (neither is a MAC address BTW). For example, the first few digits of an IMEI (and it's CDMA counterpart) codifies a device's make and model. More advanced methods exist, but that alone is already enough for any carrier in the world to instantly identify your phone the second it establishes a connection.
    I find it almost laughable that in this day and age, there are still people who think that the device they are using is untraceable or unidentifiable.
    11-16-2014 01:42 PM
  18. EspHack's Avatar
    Then again, blocking someone's phone based on make&model seems kind of unpractical, while "advanced methods" coming from US carriers wouldn't surprise me, that's most likely the exception to the rule, anyway good to know ;)
    11-16-2014 03:05 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    Then again, blocking someone's phone based on make&model seems kind of unpractical, while "advanced methods" coming from US carriers wouldn't surprise me, that's most likely the exception to the rule, anyway good to know ;)
    Absolutely. That's not where it ends however... your SIM also contains information that is broadcast to cell towers. And that's barely the tip of the iceberg...
    ven07 likes this.
    11-16-2014 04:59 PM
  20. DennyTrend's Avatar
    Great work. I'm really excited.
    11-17-2014 12:46 AM
  21. EspHack's Avatar
    we are getting close to 6k votes, keep it going!
    11-17-2014 10:20 AM

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