12-14-2014 04:59 PM
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  1. theefman's Avatar
    I've never understood why an app is needed for all these websites. Apps for BBC News, BBC Weather, BBC Sport, BBC This, BBC That, BBC Other... Just browse the website!

    Of course, what do I know?! I'm not an app-monster, I have just a smattering installed, none of them linked to websites.
    Good god... how many freaking apps does a person need?? People need an app to flush their ****ter...and if the official app is not available on WP, than it's a no go! I've been using WP since WP7 was released, and I've never had more than a handful of apps on my phone... a weather app, news, mint, a couple others, and that's it. I'm so sick of hearing about apps. Use the damn mobile website instead! 99% of the time it's a better experience than an app anyway.
    Yeah I had the Samsung Focus WP7 it was my first WP I didn't know much about apps so I didn't download as much. But yeah mobile website is better at times. Also people forget phones are used for calling and texting but alas not anymore they're just miniature PCs.
    Lets not be dishonest in the rush to defend WP. The reality of today's smartphone user is, they use apps and they expect apps to be on the platform they choose and trying to downplay their importance just because WP doesn't have most of those apps is delusional. In many cases apps provide functionality you wont get from a mobile website. That's just the truth, especially for less tech savvy and new smartphone users. Trying to diminish the importance of apps saying "I don't need a million apps" completely misses the point.

    And the flip side to this is all the hype about how Windows 10 will bring apps to WP and Windows because its unified and developers would be "crazy" not to develop for Windows 10. Well if the website is all people need why would desktop users need apps? In which case the argument is completely negated and its back to square one.

    However, its a valid point that Microsoft cant do much to force developers to release their apps on WP but what is within their power is to make the OS competitive, market it effectively, support it and at the very least treat their own platform like a first class citizen but again, the reality is they are not doing that. So the OS doesn't grow and devs aren't attracted and, no apps. It all starts with Microsoft and until they stop ******* about nothing is going to change.
    12-11-2014 03:54 PM
  2. JamesDax's Avatar
    Windows Phone isn't going away. But haters are free to leave.
    12-11-2014 04:06 PM
  3. Slovenix's Avatar
    Microsoft should make a Windows Phone launcher for Android :D
    12-11-2014 04:08 PM
  4. someone2639's Avatar
    Microsoft should make a Windows Phone launcher for Android :D
    And word flow for IOS.
    12-11-2014 04:17 PM
  5. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    I wonder what's going on. This week we've had Ed Bott and Tom Warren saying they're ditching WP and, on Windows Weekly yesterday, Thurrott and MJF gave a virtual epitaph for WP. None of them have reported even rumors that MSFT is dropping WP but they must be hearing something (vague hints). Of course, you could say that MSFT has been screaming that WP is dead recently by:

    1. Releasing apps for all their services on iOS and Android
    2. Talking about services more than platforms
    3. Removing the Metro UI from Windows
    4. Adding Android as a Visual Studio 2015 target
    12-11-2014 04:20 PM
  6. Nicholas Maguire's Avatar
    Exactly what Joe Belfiore said last year.

    Good luck with that.
    Yes, but now we really do have official apps swarming in! Just recently we've gotten VLC Media Player, Minecraft, Candy Crush Saga, and a bunch of others that I can't remember.
    12-11-2014 05:34 PM
  7. tissotti's Avatar
    I wonder what's going on. This week we've had Ed Bott and Tom Warren saying they're ditching WP and, on Windows Weekly yesterday, Thurrott and MJF gave a virtual epitaph for WP. None of them have reported even rumors that MSFT is dropping WP but they must be hearing something (vague hints). Of course, you could say that MSFT has been screaming that WP is dead recently by:

    1. Releasing apps for all their services on iOS and Android
    2. Talking about services more than platforms
    3. Removing the Metro UI from Windows
    4. Adding Android as a Visual Studio 2015 target
    As insiders to some extend they just see what's ahead for the next 12 months and still can't see light in the tunnel? There's just so much waiting you can do and "next year" promises before enough is enough.

    Disclaimer: I gave up on WP 3 months ago and went for Nexus 5.
    12-11-2014 06:52 PM
  8. Silence#WP's Avatar
    Maybe I'm funny about this - but I don't see the lack of apps as Microsoft's problem. I see it as the app developer's problem. If I want an app on my phone, and it's not there, I complain to the app developer - not the phone maker. Blaming Microsoft for the lack of apps is like blaming your car manufacturer for potholes in the road. If I want Amazon Music on my Windows Phone, I damn well better be complaining to Amazon. We the customers have to demonstrate a demand for the app and we have to make sure the people who nominally make the app *know* we want it.

    It's not like Microsoft doesn't make their tools available for free (Visual Studio Community Edition). The two factors that contribute to a lack of apps are demand and bias. If they are biased against Microsoft, then they won't see a need to develop in the first place; and if we don't demand the app developer make a Windows Phone app, they won't know that their bias is incorrect.
    I don't know how true your statement is. I've read a few articles that outright state or strongly suggest that a lack of certain APIs is one of the reasons some apps don't come to WP or are less feature rich. If this is true then that is on Microsoft.
    Reflexx likes this.
    12-11-2014 08:09 PM
  9. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    I recently bought the 830 and I like the phone a lot. Previously, I had the 720, which also served me well. But what I found most interesting was the OS. I like the tile concept and in general the OS has been stable and fast. As for apps, I have no major requirements though I am fully committed to the MS eco-system for mail, cloud services etc. I also use a SP3 all the time and have a desktop machine as a backup.

    However, the more that I see what MS is doing, the more I am contemplating a move to either an iPhone or to some Android device. And, I have basically two reasons for this:

    First, if all MS services are available on competing mobile OSs, then the question I have to ask myself is why do I need to be on Win Phone OS? Think about it - as of now, I could very well buy an iPhone or an Android device and enjoy each and every MS service. And, some of these services are probably better presented on these devices than on Win Phone OS devices. See here: http://winsupersite.com/mobile/micro...os-and-fire-os

    Second, the state of hardware in the MS side is not very good. As many have pointed out, flagship devices are very few in number. Low-end devices proliferate. I am sure MS is working to a specific strategy here, but it is just that for me the choices of hardware are quite limited. If I become OS agnostic, I can then choose between a number of devices (running different OSs) and still have the benefits of my being committed to the MS services.

    Now, since I have just bought the 830, I can't contemplate a new phone in the near future. My next hardware update will probably be around Oct. 2015 by which time Win 10 should have dropped. I also hope MS will have a newer and better line of hardware options available by then suitably optimized to run Win 10. Let's see what happens.

    But if this state of affairs continues, then the title of this thread - "sad but true" - will indeed ring true as far as I am concerned.
    12-11-2014 08:16 PM
  10. David Van Ryn's Avatar
    I gotta jump on-board here with the idea that if or when they miss the boat again next year, i to will be looking to another platform.
    I really hope this does not happen en MS surprise all of us and the competition with unforeseen greatness! Fingers crossed WP fan's

    Owner of a Lumia 830
    steve_w_7 likes this.
    12-11-2014 09:05 PM
  11. PachecoCorporationCeo's Avatar
    I gotta jump on-board here with the idea that if or when they miss the boat again next year, i to will be looking to another platform.
    I really hope this does not happen en MS surprise all of us and the competition with unforeseen greatness! Fingers crossed WP fan's

    Owner of a Lumia 830
    Let's hope they surprise us but I doubt it knowing how slow MS is. Once they announce EOL with WP I'm out but with Windows 10 mobile? Idk...
    David Van Ryn likes this.
    12-11-2014 10:59 PM
  12. Mike Majeski's Avatar
    But isn't this the case with every tech company? Apple, Samsung, Microsoft - they tease us with previews and then when the product is finally released we are all under-whelmed. Sure the iPhone 6 sold like crazy, but at the end of the day was it really a game changer? People have been saying Apple is going to collapse for years now - the same with Samsung.
    12-11-2014 11:16 PM
  13. prasath1234's Avatar
    Or if you have great news live tile app which show website info as live tile try it guys kudos to developers .
    From Windows phone
    12-11-2014 11:29 PM
  14. PachecoCorporationCeo's Avatar
    But isn't this the case with every tech company? Apple, Samsung, Microsoft - they tease us with previews and then when the product is finally released we are all under-whelmed. Sure the iPhone 6 sold like crazy, but at the end of the day was it really a game changer? People have been saying Apple is going to collapse for years now - the same with Samsung.
    Idk how the hell aPP\e is still alive it's fake image? That the world see's it as.
    12-11-2014 11:30 PM
  15. Luisraul924's Avatar
    Idk how the hell aPP\e is still alive it's fake image? That the world see's it as.
    Because excellent software? People can hate on Apple all they want it doesn't make their products less amazing. Both hardware and software wise Apple has awesome products, they just work no questions asked. No force closes no memory shortages causing app crashes nothing it just works. I just came back to Windows Phone from two years of being on iOS I had both the iPhone 5 and 5s, and hand to my heart throughout those two years not ONCE did I have any issues. I'm not saying they're perfect because no software is, what I'm saying is the failure/error rate in Apple products is by far the lowest of all ecosystems and that is the result of an extremely locked down environment. The downside to that is that the experience can start to get pretty boring. Precisely the reason I came back to WP. /rant
    tissotti likes this.
    12-11-2014 11:51 PM
  16. PachecoCorporationCeo's Avatar
    Because excellent software? People can hate on Apple all they want it doesn't make their products less amazing. Both hardware and software wise Apple has awesome products, they just work no questions asked. No force closes no memory shortages causing app crashes nothing it just works. I just came back to Windows Phone from two years of being on iOS I had both the iPhone 5 and 5s, and hand to my heart throughout those two years not ONCE did I have any issues. I'm not saying they're perfect because no software is, what I'm saying is the failure/error rate in Apple products is by far the lowest of all ecosystems and that is the result of an extremely locked down environment. The downside to that is that the experience can start to get pretty boring. Precisely the reason I came back to WP. /rant
    Yeah I agree unfortunately that's one thing I like about Apple as well. Wish Microsoft can have this skill they're just to slow and afraid.
    12-11-2014 11:56 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Good god... how many freaking apps does a person need?? People need an app to flush their ****ter...and if the official app is not available on WP, than it's a no go! I've been using WP since WP7 was released, and I've never had more than a handful of apps on my phone... a weather app, news, mint, a couple others, and that's it. I'm so sick of hearing about apps. Use the damn mobile website instead! 99% of the time it's a better experience than an app anyway.
    Sweet mercy. Folks say "just use the browser" here too?

    LOL!
    Reflexx, flyingsolid and tissotti like this.
    12-11-2014 11:57 PM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I've never understood why an app is needed for all these websites. Apps for BBC News, BBC Weather, BBC Sport, BBC This, BBC That, BBC Other... Just browse the website!

    Of course, what do I know?! I'm not an app-monster, I have just a smattering installed, none of them linked to websites.
    In a lot of cases (not all), a dedicated app might provide more functionality than a website.
    12-12-2014 12:00 AM
  19. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Maybe I'm funny about this - but I don't see the lack of apps as Microsoft's problem. I see it as the app developer's problem. If I want an app on my phone, and it's not there, I complain to the app developer - not the phone maker. Blaming Microsoft for the lack of apps is like blaming your car manufacturer for potholes in the road. If I want Amazon Music on my Windows Phone, I damn well better be complaining to Amazon. We the customers have to demonstrate a demand for the app and we have to make sure the people who nominally make the app *know* we want it.

    It's not like Microsoft doesn't make their tools available for free (Visual Studio Community Edition). The two factors that contribute to a lack of apps are demand and bias. If they are biased against Microsoft, then they won't see a need to develop in the first place; and if we don't demand the app developer make a Windows Phone app, they won't know that their bias is incorrect.
    Microsoft is ultimately responsible for its own ecosystem. It (Microsoft) has the most to lose if its ecosystem is lacking.

    No, it can't hurt to encourage developers to come aboard, but a lack of apps -- perceived or real -- hurts MSFT.
    12-12-2014 12:03 AM
  20. Luisraul924's Avatar
    Yeah I agree unfortunately that's one thing I like about Apple as well. Wish Microsoft can have this skill they're just to slow and afraid.
    I guess I'm one of the last few that firmly believes that Microsoft knows what they're doing. They have this skill look at the Surface Pro 3 and Xbox One both are Microsoft hardware and both are of top notch quality. Microsoft just took over the Lumia series just wait until the first official Microsoft Lumia I can guarantee that it'll be an amazing piece of hardware.
    12-12-2014 12:18 AM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Slowly but surely.

    I think if MSFT stays the course, and doesn't deviate from NATIVE development, things will be okay eventually.
    Reflexx likes this.
    12-12-2014 12:27 AM
  22. Jabid21's Avatar
    When speaking of Microsoft's missteps, there are numerous valid points made by Tom Warren. Microsoft doesn't seem to listen; and if they do, they are too slow to deliver. The reasons to stick with Windows Phone for the vocal few has diminished.
    1. Apps are lacking in polish and features. In some cases, lack of available API and OS limitations are holding back apps from unleashing their full potential and Microsoft is to blame for that not just the developers.
    2. Microsoft's own apps are better on competitors' OS than their own. It comes back to point 1 for watered down apps. If the plain audience can see Microsoft is struggling with making apps better on its own platform, developers definitely know the OS is lacking somehow.
    3. Lack of a flagship device for this year is a major problem too. Doesn't matter why a device isn't being released or if Microsoft is waiting for Windows 10 to arrive; if the WP 8.X devices are eligible of being updated to Windows 10, there is little excuse of not releasing a phone. Actually, they are too heavily invested in going for the low end market that enthusiasts looking for a premium experience are missing out and they are losing their patience.
    4. One more misstep that many don't notice but I personally find baffling is that Microsoft tend to roll out and cater to the US customers in terms of service and core features of the OS; however they are releasing new hardware that are optimized, pushed for the European and Asian markets with little to no support for American 3G and LTE bands. Instead, they are trying to sell mid-range devices as carrier exclusives. That is just plain stupid.
    I don't say this as a hater, I have been a regular Windows Phone user since the WM 6.1 days but Microsoft is now testing the patience of their most loyal fans. All in all, I wish Microsoft the best as an exodus is certainly underway, whether we like it or not.
    12-12-2014 12:28 AM
  23. mayconvert's Avatar
    lol apps on windows ARE worse than using the web browser.
    This is the lamest argument I see all WP user use to validate their WP purchase.
    My bank app lets me deposit checks using the camera. My bank doesn't have an app on WP and point blank told me, "Not Interested in Developing for WP platform."
    The reason you have 5 apps is because you don't have any to start with.
    I am pretty minimal when it comes to apps, I don't use fart apps or ignorant crap like that, but I still have around 25 apps installed on my iPhone 6+ and Note 4. My WP collects dust and thats about all its good for.

    And then there is this other thing where WP users say there is other apps that do kind of the same thing. just use it....
    WP will go nowhere without Official name brand apps. it will stay at its current 1% market share and go no further.
    12-12-2014 12:48 AM
  24. Luisraul924's Avatar
    When speaking of Microsoft's missteps, there are numerous valid points made by Tom Warren. Microsoft doesn't seem to listen; and if they do, they are too slow to deliver. The reasons to stick with Windows Phone for the vocal few has diminished.
    1. Apps are lacking in polish and features. In some cases, lack of available API and OS limitations are holding back apps from unleashing their full potential and Microsoft is to blame for that not just the developers.
    2. Microsoft's own apps are better on competitors' OS than their own. It comes back to point 1 for watered down apps. If the plain audience can see Microsoft is struggling with making apps better on its own platform, developers definitely know the OS is lacking somehow.
    3. Lack of a flagship device for this year is a major problem too. Doesn't matter why a device isn't being released or if Microsoft is waiting for Windows 10 to arrive; if the WP 8.X devices are eligible of being updated to Windows 10, there is little excuse of not releasing a phone. Actually, they are too heavily invested in going for the low end market that enthusiasts looking for a premium experience are missing out and they are losing their patience.
    4. One more misstep that many don't notice but I personally find baffling is that Microsoft tend to roll out and cater to the US customers in terms of service and core features of the OS; however they are releasing new hardware that are optimized, pushed for the European and Asian markets with little to no support for American 3G and LTE bands. Instead, they are trying to sell mid-range devices as carrier exclusives. That is just plain stupid.
    I don't say this as a hater, I have been a regular Windows Phone user since the WM 6.1 days but Microsoft is now testing the patience of their most loyal fans. All in all, I wish Microsoft the best as an exodus is certainly underway, whether we like it or not.
    Let people leave. They'll either go to Android or iOS (obviously) and I support iOS hell I recommend it even it's a great OS. Android however, will never have the finesse that WP and iOS have because of open source. Without rooting and such Android straight sucks. OEMs junk their devices too much; a device doesn't have 3 gigs of RAM when the OS+OEM skin takes up 2.5. If going Android get a nexus device but even then try to avoid it. I get the feeling that whether or not WP fails Microsoft will continue with Lumia as their version of Google's Nexus line of devices. One flagship Lumia once a year with a small peppering of any OEMs that choose to make phones with W10 as it will presumably remain free for small form factors.
    12-12-2014 12:51 AM
  25. Noahma's Avatar
    I wonder what's going on. This week we've had Ed Bott and Tom Warren saying they're ditching WP and, on Windows Weekly yesterday, Thurrott and MJF gave a virtual epitaph for WP. None of them have reported even rumors that MSFT is dropping WP but they must be hearing something (vague hints). Of course, you could say that MSFT has been screaming that WP is dead recently by:

    1. Releasing apps for all their services on iOS and Android
    2. Talking about services more than platforms
    3. Removing the Metro UI from Windows
    4. Adding Android as a Visual Studio 2015 target
    Every year around this time, the same stuff pops up. "woe is me, windows phone is dying" I will agree, its not growing as it should. There are hurdles to leap through, and its a long fight not a quick one shot win.

    1. Releasing apps for all their services on iOS and Android
    This is good business sense, have your product EVERYWHERE, that way there is no possible way to miss potential customers. Hell I bet Microsoft would release the apps for connected refrigerators too if it has the choice to at this point. Microsoft did not restrict themselves to a specific set of hardware when they first released DOS and Windows like a fruit named company did, and see what it did for their company. Google as well released products that were accessible from just about every conceivable area, and they are now market leader in their respective fields.
    2. Talking about services more than platforms
    This again, is good business sense, get people enrolled in your services to keep them tied to your company, and have a steady income. Nothing scary there, just some smart thinking.
    3. Removing the Metro UI from Windows
    They are NOT removing the modern UI, it is transforming on desktop to fit the needs of a desktop computer. They learned the hard way that you cannot design an OS that is touch first and expect people to use it with a mouse and keyboard. The modern UI is great for touch, tablets etc. but is just plain clunky with a mouse and keyboard. So they are customizing the UI to the device its on. Desktop is a Desktop focused UI with the modern UI modified to work within the new start menu. The Tablet UI will be just that Modern UI with a touch focus, and apparently it is being modified and merged with the phone UI to the point of having one SKU with the underpinnings the same to allow for universal apps.

    4. Adding Android as a Visual Studio 2015 target
    Again, good business decision to go after where the customers are. get a hook in them, give the developers the tools to write for one platform, and make it easier to move that same code to another platform, IE make it easier for those developing for another platform to develop for your platform.

    Just because two tech journalists switch platforms does not mean the world is coming to an end. That's 2 people out of 7-8-9 million windows phone devices sold in a year that saw only a couple new devices?
    here is a pretty good article recap of last quarter
    Windows Phone Market Share Strong Last Quarter - Clinton Fitch

    Microsoft said a couple years ago that they are in it for the long haul, this is not a battle that will be won in a quick decisive stroke, but a long drawn out fight.

    I personally feel that Windows phone is starting to mature. I am absolutely in love with my Lumia 830, and the 920 before that. The platform has probably THE best integration I have seen when it comes to OS's. I don't plan on leaving anytime soon, I just love the OS too much. I got bored with IOS, and I never liked my Android devices before that.

    sure Microsoft dropped the ball with McLaren, They were counting on it having a new technology that did not pan out the way they wished, and they should have had a plan B in place for this very situation. I really am thinking that's where they came with the "affordable flagship" name for the 830, it IS the plan B (not good enough Microsoft). Lets just hope they are cooking up some good stuff for next year. If previous quotes from Microsoft's exec. are evidence, it might be.
    12-12-2014 12:59 AM
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