01-22-2015 12:38 AM
69 123
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  1. rory753's Avatar
    I am confused and frustrated by the lumia denim update.

    Microsoft has said that certain features would become available with lumia denim, particularily imaging would be vastly improved. softpay would be available, if you're carrier supports it, and some other minor improvements. When I bought the lumia 830, I was under the impression that since it had denim, I would have these updates.

    I was wrong.

    I expected the lack of softpay ability, and I accepted that this would be due to carriers not supporting the platform for some reason or another. What I didn't know was that Microsoft had fragmented Denim. Apparently, lumia denim which is the firmware update for Nokia/Microsoft lumias for when they upgrade to 8.1.1, was broken up. so apparently, my brand new lumia 830 has 8.1.1.1, but I have to get 8.1.1.2 in order for lumia camera 5.0 to work.

    This was not clear when they released denim. this was not clear when they talked about lumia camera 5.0. I feel Microsoft should not have advertised these features if they did not actual include them in denim. To me, this is true lying to the consumer in order to sell a device. I'm probably going to give Microsoft a pass, because let's face it, theres still enough there to like. but f*ck, I'm not recommending this device or others to friends.

    If you want a platform with a true, transparent update schedule and routine, go with iOS. for everything else, there's android and windows phone.
    01-16-2015 11:46 AM
  2. Harrie-S's Avatar
    I am sure also many other people have the same feelings about the 830 "advertisement". Let's hope that this was a first but also last "trick"
    01-16-2015 11:55 AM
  3. Gilad Meiri's Avatar
    The way I see it, with the comparative lack of apps on WP in general, if you're gonna get a windows phone, might as well get the best one. Either the 930 or 1520, if you have really large hands.

    If you're gonna get a mid range device, might as well go with android or iOS. At least then, what you lack in raw horse power and camera optics, you make up for with a huge variety of apps.
    techiez and Jai Burch like this.
    01-16-2015 12:03 PM
  4. rory753's Avatar
    I really could care less about the app gap. I know specifically the apps I would want on ios, or android, but it doesn't make me want to swap os. What I do respect about ios, is when they release an update, you know what you get, and when, for everyone. Neither Android or win phone can say the same.
    techiez likes this.
    01-16-2015 12:10 PM
  5. Julian Lee2000's Avatar
    On my 830 under extra+info it says
    OS version 8.10.14157.200
    Does that mean I have windows 8.1.1.2? Is that the same as the "full" Lumia denim? Because even though I seem to have the latest update, I still can't get Lumia camera 5.0
    01-16-2015 12:17 PM
  6. rory753's Avatar
    No one knows.
    01-16-2015 12:22 PM
  7. Julian Lee2000's Avatar
    It also says under software windows phone 8.1 update
    01-16-2015 12:23 PM
  8. TheJoester09's Avatar
    I've never seen an ad or release related to Denim that didn't include "only for the Lumia 1520, 930, and Icon" for the features where that's applicable. That's not false advertising. In fact, it's 100% the opposite of false advertising.
    aximtreo, JamesDax, hprvez and 2 others like this.
    01-16-2015 12:24 PM
  9. Loc Ngo's Avatar
    It's not Microsoft's problem, it's you who didn't care to read carefully.
    aximtreo, DavidinCT and Al4video like this.
    01-16-2015 12:31 PM
  10. rory753's Avatar
    "only for the Lumia 1520, 930, and Icon" for.
    They also included the 830 in there descriptions for the features.
    ven07 likes this.
    01-16-2015 12:59 PM
  11. mjperry51's Avatar
    To the OP:

    Look at Settings | About.

    Your OS version will be something like 8.10.14219.341 -- that is the Windows OS version. In my case it's Windows Phone 8.1.1
    Your Firmware Revision number will be something like 30151. 500009.1446.0093 -- this is mine, which is Denim (on a 928).
    You are posting OS versions, not Firmware (Denim) versions.

    What Firmware version does Info & extras report on your phone -- Denim or Cyan??
    ven07 likes this.
    01-16-2015 01:04 PM
  12. Julian Lee2000's Avatar
    Mine is 8.10.14157.200 on the 830, so how come the 928 got the update before the 830?
    01-16-2015 01:07 PM
  13. mj0's Avatar
    If you want a platform with a true, transparent update schedule and routine, go with iOS.
    This one drives me nuts. I don't get why Google and Microsoft can't get their **** together yet Apple somehow manages to provide updates in time for their devices all at the same time. It really bothers me.
    etad putta and heat 33330 like this.
    01-16-2015 01:09 PM
  14. rory753's Avatar
    "It's not Microsoft's problem, it's you who didn't care to read carefully."
    I don't understand this post. Was this directed at me? What's not Microsoft's problem? what didn't I read carefully? please elaborate.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    01-16-2015 02:00 PM
  15. rory753's Avatar
    What Firmware version does Info & extras report on your phone -- Denim or Cyan??
    I have denim. Denim came stock on the lumia 830, including the nested folders, and everything else that I saw in the dev preview on my 1520, except the camera improvements. The confusion is the camera improvements are not in the stock denim with the lumia 830. As I understand it, the camera improvements are needed to make lumia camera 5.0 work. Microsoft has to apparently release an update to the lumia 830 in order for me to be able to use lumia camera 5.0. So, there is apparently 2 versions of denim.
    01-16-2015 02:06 PM
  16. Hotvak123's Avatar
    This one drives me nuts. I don't get why Goggle and Microsoft can't get their **** together yet Apple somehow manages to provide updates in time for their devices all at the same time. It really bothers me.
    That's because Apple only has one phone to maintain where as Goggle and Microsoft have a verity of phone to manage, different phone makes, processor , memory , etc. and I am sure each one have there own headaches for updating.
    aximtreo and xandros9 like this.
    01-16-2015 02:35 PM
  17. Gilad Meiri's Avatar
    It's not a really fair comparison. iOS has 2-3 devices to maintain at any given time. Android has a thousand and there are countless Lumias out there.

    The fact that Apple have their own hardware and software means they have a lot less work to do in order to get it straight.
    xandros9 likes this.
    01-16-2015 02:54 PM
  18. rory753's Avatar
    That's because Apple only has one phone to maintain ...
    I know that they have 1 OS to maintain, but isn't the hardware different from the iphone 3 to the iphone 4 to the iphone 4s to the iphone 5 to the iphone 5s and iphone 5c to the iphone 6 and iphone 6 plus? wouldn't those require similar firmware updates?
    01-16-2015 02:56 PM
  19. rory753's Avatar
    It's not a really fair comparison. iOS has 2-3 devices to maintain at any given time...
    totally agree that apple has a lot less work to do then android, but they still have to provide updates on multiple carriers in multiple countries and on multiple phones. and they do it simultaneously. I think it should be something that both android and WP strive for.

    I'll put it this way. as far as I know, the complaints about iOS updates are that they happened and broke something, as opposed to android and WP, which are they didn't happen or they don't know when they're going to happen.
    01-16-2015 03:06 PM
  20. mjperry51's Avatar
    I had the home screen folders with P4D -- that is not a Denim feature.

    Does the 830 have the camera hardware necessary to run Camera 5.0??
    01-16-2015 03:07 PM
  21. phirefly's Avatar
    I know that they have 1 OS to maintain, but isn't the hardware different from the iphone 3 to the iphone 4 to the iphone 4s to the iphone 5 to the iphone 5s and iphone 5c to the iphone 6 and iphone 6 plus? wouldn't those require similar firmware updates?
    And the less capable models don't get all of the improvements from the OS and/or firmware. Same thing is happening with WP. MS just came out and finally cleared it up by saying Denim is the same as Cyan on the Models that don't have the power to use the new camera features. This also means if you already have Cyan just install Preview for Developers and you are at "Denim" on all devices except the 1520, Icon and 930. This could be why VZW was semi quick to release Denim in the US (except for the Icon) because they never released Cyan. AT&T has very little to gain by releasing Denim on most models (all except the 1520) because the users can already get 100% of the features by simply installing PfD.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-16-2015 03:08 PM
  22. mjperry51's Avatar
    Mine is 8.10.14157.200 on the 830, so how come the 928 got the update before the 830?
    Ask AT&T. . .
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    01-16-2015 03:09 PM
  23. rory753's Avatar
    Does the 830 have the camera hardware necessary to run Camera 5.0??
    yes. the lumia 830 as far as I know is unable to download camera 5.0 due to the firmware not being there when shipped. or something. If I'm wrong, please correct me and point my to the right place, but as far as I can tell from what others have posted and my experience, a lumia 830 with denim needs a further denim update.
    01-16-2015 03:18 PM
  24. rory753's Avatar
    And the less capable models don't get all of the improvements from the OS and/or firmware.
    but, they all get the updates(even if they are lesser), and at the same time as the newer models, and they know what they got.
    The DP is good, but when there are actual hardware upgrades needed, such as miracast or Bluetooth LTE, etc, we need the updates to complete the update experience(8.1DP broke Bluetooth 4.0 until cyan came back and fixed it). and there is really no reason the firmware shouldn't be tied into the DP, especially since lumias are part of Microsoft now.

    this is also an aside from what my original whine about how lumia denim is now fragmented from a firmware perspective.
    01-16-2015 03:25 PM
  25. xandros9's Avatar
    but, they all get the updates(even if they are lesser), and at the same time as the newer models, and they know what they got.
    The DP is good, but when there are actual hardware upgrades needed, such as miracast or Bluetooth LTE, etc, we need the updates to complete the update experience(8.1DP broke Bluetooth 4.0 until cyan came back and fixed it). and there is really no reason the firmware shouldn't be tied into the DP, especially since lumias are part of Microsoft now.

    this is also an aside from what my original whine about how lumia denim is now fragmented from a firmware perspective.
    and Apple has the clout to bypass carriers completely, as well as only have one manufacturer (itself) to deal with.

    but please, this Denim "fragmentation" is a non-issue. Some phones have more features than others, but that isn't really "fragmentation."
    01-16-2015 03:55 PM
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