1. Krothu's Avatar
    I have a Virgin Media Lumia 620 on a pay monthly contract and I still have not got the Windows Denim update. Can any one tell me how to get it?
    02-20-2015 06:11 AM
  2. Pete's Avatar
    You have to do nothing more than wait. Denim isn't available for this variant yet. Hopefully it won't be too long now.

    You may check availability here

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=WLDCu_m5
    02-20-2015 06:17 AM
  3. Krothu's Avatar
    Sorry just to be clear, that link shows that Denim is avaliable for the Lumia 620 but are you saying that Microsoft or Virgin Media have yet to publish it?
    02-20-2015 06:23 AM
  4. Pete's Avatar
    If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you'll see that the availability of Denim for each phone and operator in the UK (I'm assuming you're in the UK).

    Lumia 620 Virgin Cyan 8.10.12393.890 3058.50000.1425.0005
    02-20-2015 06:27 AM
  5. Krothu's Avatar
    Yes I see that, and I also see :

    Lumia 620 O2 Denim 8.10.14219.341 3058.50000.1425.0005
    So I am not sure if its Virgin Media who have not released the Denim patch or Microsoft who have not released the Virgin Media Denim patch?
    02-20-2015 06:38 AM
  6. Pete's Avatar
    Each mobile operator has to test their own variant of the firmware to ensure that their customisations work and that the phone will work satisfactorily on their network. Basically, there's a different version of the firmware for every model of handset per region per carrier. In total, there's over 2500 variants that need to be tested by Microsoft and each carrier in their regions.

    So you should read the line in the list that refers to Virgin, not O2.
    02-20-2015 08:38 AM
  7. Krothu's Avatar
    Thanks Pete.

    In the mean time i have asked Virgin Media on their customer forums and I git this answer:

    "The software update is being pushed out by Microsoft themselves. We're awaiting a response from them currently."

    Sorry to be dumb but I get differing answers from everyone, so basically we are waiting for Microsoft to test the update with Virgin firmware before you send it out to the carrier before they can send it to us?
    02-20-2015 09:54 AM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    Thanks Pete.

    In the mean time i have asked Virgin Media on their customer forums and I git this answer:

    "The software update is being pushed out by Microsoft themselves. We're awaiting a response from them currently."

    Sorry to be dumb but I get differing answers from everyone, so basically we are waiting for Microsoft to test the update with Virgin firmware before you send it out to the carrier before they can send it to us?
    TBH, carriers are some of the least trustworthy companies that exist. They'll tell you anything that makes them look better, and since most have no way of verifying their claims, there are no negative consequences to outright lying. In this case it could theoretically be true however. Further clarification:

    All updates are distributed by Microsoft, or in other words, every update comes to our phones from a Microsoft server. Technically Microsoft could update our devices all at once, but legally MS is not allowed to do so until carriers give them permission to flick the distribution switch for their network.

    Note also that carriers don't work on firmware. All firmware is created and packaged by the OEM. Carriers do virtually no development work on their own. When completed, OEMs work together with the carriers to get the entire OS + firmware package approved, and when that's complete, the package is transferred to MS for distribution on that carriers network.
    02-20-2015 10:07 AM
  9. Pete's Avatar
    When there's a carrier component to the firmware, both Microsoft and the Carrier perform testing of that firmware. So in this case it looks like Virgin has passed their tests, so Microsoft has to complete theirs and then schedule the update to be released. The firmware is owned by Microsoft, but the carrier can make their own configuration changes. Microsoft need to make sure that the carrier settings are valid and stable before it gets signed off and scheduled for rollout.

    Hopefully this will be soon. A carrier finalizing their testing is generally a good sign.
    02-20-2015 10:07 AM
  10. Krothu's Avatar
    Ah okay, that makes it crystal clear. Thanks for your help and I hope that Mcrosoft does not take too long testing...I hear windows phone 10 is coming out soon
    02-20-2015 10:39 AM
  11. Krothu's Avatar
    If possible could you let us know what sort of time frame the release might nite take? It if you can find a specific date that would be awesome 😊
    02-21-2015 05:11 AM
  12. gMaesterUK's Avatar
    Virgin don't do carrier testing as they don't own or manage the network, they only rent space on the network from EE. It's only when EE approve the update will it work for Virgin.
    Though EE seems missing from the MS Availability list, maybe they didn't sell that model, that may cause an issue for you...

    G.
    02-21-2015 07:38 AM
  13. Krothu's Avatar
    Are you sure because the Microsoft chaps said Virgin Media the update is with them to test and release?
    02-22-2015 07:11 AM
  14. gMaesterUK's Avatar
    Virgin can't test their network because they don't have one. It's EE's network they use.
    I'm sure Virgin will ask EE to test it for them, but EE are slow to approve updates...

    G.
    02-22-2015 12:59 PM
  15. Krothu's Avatar
    Hmmm did you not read this though
    So in this case it looks like Virgin has passed their tests, so Microsoft has to complete theirs and then schedule the update to be released
    ....even if its EE; this is a case of its in Microsoft's hands to release. Which I would like to know when that might be?
    02-23-2015 05:17 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    Hmmm did you not read this though
    So in this case it looks like Virgin has passed their tests, so Microsoft has to complete theirs and then schedule the update to be released
    ....even if its EE; this is a case of its in Microsoft's hands to release. Which I would like to know when that might be?
    I've worked for a carrier, and although I have absolutely nothing to do with EE, I'm not aware of this process ever running in that order. I have only ever seen it run the other way around. MS first tests the OS. That is then handed off to the OEM who adds their firmware and tests second. The OEM then provides the OS/firmware package to carriers who always test last. If the carrier accepts the OS/firmware revision, then that gives MS permission to distribute the OS/firmware package on that carriers network. There is nothing left for MS to test at that point.

    Exceptions exist only if a carrier rejects the OS and firmware revision, in which case the OEM and/or MS try to fix whatever the carrier is not happy with. That restarts the entire testing procedure from the beginning. That may have been what happened here and what Pete was referring too, but this is rather rare.
    02-23-2015 05:49 PM
  17. davidD93's Avatar
    Hi Krothu, I'm user dd93 on the Virgin Media forum, I have commented on the same post as you. I was in the same position as you (until I got my new Lumia 735 less than 12 hours ago via Carphone Warehouse, [sim free, meaning no waiting for Virgin anymore, thank the lord!,]).

    The VM team have always been annoyingly poor at giving out updates on this type of thing (unlike O2, who usually give out more detailed information when asked, unlike the standard "we have no information at the moment, we'll let you know when it is released" like Virgin do). The best response was the following:

    "I can confirm that the Denim update is a software update but we've no further news on this currently". Yeah, no sh*t Sherlock, we knew that, we were asking about a release date, not what Denim was, we are not that stupid!

    Hopefully, this supposed announcement on the 28th that another user claims will happen will be them releasing Denim, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
    02-23-2015 06:01 PM
  18. BlackJack1979's Avatar
    Same problem with 1020 my friend. All can do is wait and hope...thr Lumia Camera for Denim on my 41 mp camera will be awesome. Can't wait
    02-24-2015 02:45 AM
  19. gMaesterUK's Avatar
    Same problem with 1020 my friend. All can do is wait and hope...thr Lumia Camera for Denim on my 41 mp camera will be awesome. Can't wait
    I personally didn't think that there was any changes for 1020 in Denim due to the hardware limitations (age)... I might be wrong, and I don't mind being corrected...

    G.
    02-24-2015 06:39 AM
  20. Krothu's Avatar
    Lets hope that the announcement on the 28th is about Demin. I think that when I re-new in october I will be buying a sim free phone as I can't see Virgin Media upgrading/allowing to upgrade to Windows 10 this year!
    02-24-2015 07:21 AM
  21. gMaesterUK's Avatar
    The probably isn't necessarily Virgin but EE. The big issue is EE are currently being purchased by BT plc, so I'm sure it's having a knock-on effect...

    G.
    02-24-2015 11:35 AM
  22. Krothu's Avatar
    Well I can now confirm, announcement or no announcement, that my Virgin media 620 got updated last night with the Denim update
    02-25-2015 11:53 PM

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