09-28-2012 06:57 PM
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  1. selfcreation's Avatar
    better then getting nothing. :giggle:
    snowmutt likes this.
    06-20-2012 02:12 PM
  2. Reflexx's Avatar
    No, a lot of what is currently missing has to do with OS and API features. There are very few apps out there that need to use native code. MS hasn't said what features that 7.8 is or is not getting.

    I think people are blowing this out of proportion until MS actually details what 7.8 is including.
    Agreed. Outside of the more intense games, or games that run on top of a commercial engine, not many apps require native code.

    The thing holding many app developers back is the install base, not the native code access. Sure, there are some that need native code. But they're the exception rather than the rule.

    WP8 will increase the install base, and in turn, bring more developers on board. Just like Zynga is coming on board with Words With Friends and Draw Something. Two games that will more than likely be written to run on 7.8.
    06-20-2012 02:13 PM
  3. tekhna's Avatar
    The 3Gs is only getting the parts of iOS 6 it can handle, period end of story. So is the iPhone 4, and the 4S. If your phone is not Siri compatible, it won't magically become so. The RUMORED 7.8 upgrade is no different. Where 1st and 2nd Gen phones are not able to handle it, they won't get it.

    Not sure why you think Apples support is so much better when it is exactly the same thing. WP7 owners will be happy with their support, I guarantee it.
    Yeah, because the 3Gs is 3 years old. Most people got their Lumias in the last two months. There's an enormous difference.
    06-20-2012 02:14 PM
  4. turbulent28's Avatar
    But doesn't appear to be supported on WP 7.8. So apps written using RT are a no go.



    I think if WP8 apps would run on 7.8 they would have mentioned it. Instead they kept going on and on about WP7 apps running on WP8. They basically said "we're giving you a new start screen and live tiles so you won't feel like you just completely took it up the rear end."

    Sure sounded like it. They kept going mentioning giving us the windows 8 experience and always mentioned the start screen.

    Then Nokia to release apps...


    So yea, its pretty much a throw in.
    06-20-2012 02:14 PM
  5. Reflexx's Avatar
    I agree with you ont he install base. But that concept applies to big developer more or less. I develop apps in my free time when I get off work. I got interested in WP when Nokia Lumia 900 came out. I develop 2 apps in the WP Market to test the water, and I'm working on several apps idea I have right now. I know for sure I won't have time for the old platform, and I am pretty sure all the indie and small developers would be in the same boat.
    Is it about having time for the old platform?

    Creating an app using native code would require more time to do, and give you fewer users. Unless your app is something that absolutely requires native code development, it doesn't make sense to do so.
    06-20-2012 02:16 PM
  6. canesfan625's Avatar
    But doesn't appear to be supported on WP 7.8. So apps written using RT are a no go.



    I think if WP8 apps would run on 7.8 they would have mentioned it. Instead they kept going on and on about WP7 apps running on WP8. They basically said "we're giving you a new start screen and live tiles so you won't feel like you just completely took it up the rear end."
    RT isnt a programming language its a collection of APIs. It supports all of the existing languages.
    06-20-2012 02:17 PM
  7. Reflexx's Avatar
    But doesn't appear to be supported on WP 7.8. So apps written using RT are a no go.
    Small tweaks will need to be made. But RT is pretty close to Silverlight.

    I think if WP8 apps would run on 7.8 they would have mentioned it. Instead they kept going on and on about WP7 apps running on WP8. They basically said "we're giving you a new start screen and live tiles so you won't feel like you just completely took it up the rear end."
    Well, that ends up being a matter of semantics. You don't really call something a "WP8 app" unless its one of the ones that are designed to only run on WP8 and above.

    If you create a brand new app that can run on both, you call is a WP7 app.
    06-20-2012 02:18 PM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    The biggest fear I have is if they stop selling WP7 devices completely, even in the emerging markets.

    However, if WP7 devices are still available in the emerging markets as budget devices, we'll still see developer support for years and years to come.
    06-20-2012 02:21 PM
  9. Fiann's Avatar
    Sure sounded like it. They kept going mentioning giving us the windows 8 experience and always mentioned the start screen.

    Then Nokia to release apps...


    So yea, its pretty much a throw in.
    MAYBE it will include some of the other new features and APIs and allow us to run WP8 apps that don't require managed code. I'm not holding my breath though. I knew buying that Lumia in May was a bad idea. Sad thing is that my boys who are running a Surround and Titan will probably both be able to get WP8 through hacked ROMs. No sign of them for the 900 though.

    Now it looks like I can either try to save up for a phone or a Surface. No way I will be able to afford both unless I go find a second job.
    06-20-2012 02:21 PM
  10. mprice86's Avatar
    I'm actually reasonably happy with the 7.8 update path and look forward to hearing more about the features we'll be getting with it.

    In some ways, I can understand the anger that some users are feeling, that we might not get all of the fancy new software stuff because it hasn't been announced yet. But on the other hand, it's also kind of insane to be pissed about not getting WP8 because of all the extra stuff that is in it that current phones simply cannot support.

    Why are people annoyed at not getting the Wallet app when their current phone doesn't have NFC can so can't make use of it? Why are people frustrated by their phones not being able to support screen resolutions beyond what their handset is specced for?

    I admit I will be disappointed if the deep skype integration doesn't come with 7.8, but we'll have to wait and see what exactly we will get with it. For now, I'm glad to be getting any update at all :)
    06-20-2012 02:22 PM
  11. Fiann's Avatar
    RT isnt a programming language its a collection of APIs. It supports all of the existing languages.
    Right, but if the new APIs aren't included with WP 7.8....
    06-20-2012 02:24 PM
  12. Reflexx's Avatar
    MAYBE it will include some of the other new features and APIs and allow us to run WP8 apps that don't require managed code. I'm not holding my breath though. I knew buying that Lumia in May was a bad idea. Sad thing is that my boys who are running a Surround and Titan will probably both be able to get WP8 through hacked ROMs. No sign of them for the 900 though.

    Now it looks like I can either try to save up for a phone or a Surface. No way I will be able to afford both unless I go find a second job.
    Keep an eye on xda-developers. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a hacked ROM for the Lumia line of phones within a few months of WP8 release.
    06-20-2012 02:24 PM
  13. tenoclock's Avatar
    You're not thinking like a developer.

    Developers will want to have the largest install base possible.
    They like easier development because it saves time and money.

    Unless they HAVE TO use native code, they won't.

    It's easier and faster to develop apps in .NET. And .NET apps will still work on WP7.8.
    Is it about having time for the old platform?

    Creating an app using native code would require more time to do, and give you fewer users. Unless your app is something that absolutely requires native code development, it doesn't make sense to do so.
    It has everything to do with the time. You can either develop a really simple app that works on both WP7/WP8 but without the new APIs, a WP8 app that has all the new features that doesn't work in WP7, or two versions of the same app but require time to think which features not to include. Software development is not a magical process...

    Anyway I don't understand why you kept on mentioning the native code. Even with .Net or C# it takes time when you are creating a different version of the same app. Anyway you can stay enthusiastic all you want, but to stay consistant with this thread...the current WP7 users are more or less screwed (more so for the 2-months old Nokia Lumia 900 owners). I am suspecting we will not see a lot of major apps feature like the new Skype's WP8 background integration in WP7.8 because of lack of APIs.
    Last edited by tenoclock; 06-20-2012 at 02:32 PM.
    06-20-2012 02:27 PM
  14. fogel35's Avatar
    I'm seriously laughing at the people in this thread complaining about this. Did you magically expect your phone to have an NFC chip and a higher resolution?
    Ummm no but I didn't expect to be turned into a second class citizen when it comes to the ecosystem.

    I don't think people saying, " did you think your resolution would get bumped to 720p, NFC chips to magically appear, etc" understand the soon to be tumbleweed infested ecosystem for WP 7.5 is going to become once the SDK hits.
    06-20-2012 02:27 PM
  15. canesfan625's Avatar
    Right, but if the new APIs aren't included with WP 7.8....
    Most of them are for things we cant use anyway... Like I said before, Most of this should only really effect gaming in terms of apps.
    06-20-2012 02:28 PM
  16. Mio_Ray's Avatar
    I'm all good with these news. I think it will be a great update, I am looking forward to it. I have seen far worse on other platforms.

    Marketplace will continue to grow and with very little effort developers can create a version for both.



    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
    06-20-2012 02:30 PM
  17. isi mcf's Avatar
    Having 7.8 vs 8 is a bummer but it doesnt matter unless we are missing key features.
    Will 7.8 get voip integration? I guess the big thing is knowing what 7.8 will get and wont get. If its quite a bit of features like the voice recognition and voip integration then im happy with my titan until my upgrade in a little over a year. If not then i will be going to be trying to get an early upgrade.
    06-20-2012 02:31 PM
  18. fogel35's Avatar
    You're not thinking like a developer.

    Developers will want to have the largest install base possible.
    They like easier development because it saves time and money.

    Unless they HAVE TO use native code, they won't.

    It's easier and faster to develop apps in .NET. And .NET apps will still work on WP7.8.
    You are missing the huge point. Windows 8 operating system both x86/x64 and WinRT being sold on Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, HP, etc and its huge install base. Potentially 1 billion customers or the 10 million legacy users? Where are you going to invest?
    06-20-2012 02:31 PM
  19. Reflexx's Avatar
    It has everything to do with the time. You can either develop a really simple app that works on both WP7/WP8 but without the new APIs, a WP8 app that has all the new features that doesn't work in WP7, or two versions of the same app but require time to think which features not to include. Software development is not a magical process...

    Anyway I don't understand why you kept on mentioning the native code. Even with .Net or C# it takes time when you are creating a different version of the same app. Anyway you can stay enthusiastic all you want, but to stay consistant with this thread...the current WP7 users are more or less screwed (more so for the 2-months old Nokia Lumia 900 owners). I am suspecting we will not see a lot of major apps feature like the new Skype's WP8 background integration in WP7.8 because of lack of APIs.
    We'll agree to disagree. I don't believe that most apps really need the new APIs. And if they don't need the new APIs, then it doesn't make sense to only code in a way that only runs on WP8.

    Will there be some? Sure. Of course.

    That's hardly "screwed" though. WP7 is still a mighty fine OS. And that's what people bought.
    ninjaap and vp710 like this.
    06-20-2012 02:38 PM
  20. CAVX's Avatar
    I totally understand why this decision was made. It would be incredibly difficult for 7.5 users to get the upgrade without causing a bunch of problems going forward. I think "clean slate " is the best approach for WP8.

    Because of that, I'm actually very appreciative of the fact that current users will get an upgrade to 7.8. The ecosystem will slowly diminish, sure, but it won't be dead and we already have 100,000 apps that do a bunch of great things. As a rule of thumb for people with bad attitudes about this: don't buy a something under the assumption that you'll get anything other than what it is at that very moment. Windows 7.5 is still very solid, and 7.8 will still give existing users a great new Start screen.

    I'm actually not in a bad position. I'm off-contract because I won a Lumia 800 from a dev contest. I figure that I'll hop on board the Windows Phone 8 train right away and grab a contract in order to do so. My fiancee is less fortunate - she bought her Focus Flash earlier this year. Remains to be seen whether or not we hold out with 7.8 for her or shell out for a new phone. I do admit, a buyback program would be great.
    06-20-2012 02:40 PM
  21. paulm187's Avatar
    I'm glad I did not upgrade although was tempted by the Nokia 900. I will wait now and see what new hardware is on offer for WP8. Its a bit disappointing that current gen phones will not be upgradable to Wp8 but atleast get some features with Wp7.8.

    Atleast I'm happy I don't own an Android - still on 7.1% of devices have Android ICS 4.0 lol
    06-20-2012 02:41 PM
  22. aubreyq's Avatar
    Work with carriers to make a special upgrade program for those who bought one of the newer Windows Phone in 2012 such as Lumia 900, Focus 2, and Titan II.

    What I'm trying to say is to find a way to delight those who bought one of the "newer" phones.

    Agree? Disagree? Other suggestions?

    EDIT: By "special upgrade" I mean a super early upgrade to a WP8 phone.

    EDIT 2: Making a note that it is perfectly understood that Microsoft and their partners may very well do nothing, but it would be nice if they did. That is the gist of this post.
    Last edited by aubreyq; 06-20-2012 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Clarity
    trumpet116 and rdubmu like this.
    06-20-2012 02:42 PM
  23. HeyCori's Avatar
    What do you mean by special upgrade? Like early upgrade or flashing the kernel?
    06-20-2012 02:44 PM
  24. alpinestars1z's Avatar
    Maybe trade in your old Windows Phone and get an early upgrade or discount off the full price?
    06-20-2012 02:47 PM
  25. aubreyq's Avatar
    What do you mean by special upgrade? Like early upgrade or flashing the kernel?
    Oh, sorry that I wasn't clear. I meant give them a waiver for a very early upgrade to a WP8 phone. I'll edit my post to make that clear. Thanks.
    CDG likes this.
    06-20-2012 02:48 PM
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