x86 vs ARM

[thelastfoiter]

This is a microsoft forum so please no bias, but what do you guys think the future of mobile computing will be? ARM architecture with it's new a15 quadcore is promising incredible performance/battery life ratios. But Intel (x86) is coming in with medfield.. What do you guys think will be the architecture in your phone 3 years from now?

 

[sentimentGX4]

x86 is looking a whole lot more competitive than ARM based on both processing power and price at the moment. This is based on the Orange San Diego benchmarks.

The biggest obstacle to x86 adoption will ultimately be deep ARM roots in mobile computing; however, given the potential success of Windows Phone 8, x86 will definitely retake the market considering the conventional kernel-processor pairing.

 

[thelastfoiter]

x86 is looking a whole lot more competitive than ARM based on both processing power and price at the moment. This is based on the Orange San Diego benchmarks.

The biggest obstacle to x86 adoption will ultimately be deep ARM roots in mobile computing; however, given the potential success of Windows Phone 8, x86 will definitely retake the market considering the conventional kernel-processor pairing.

I'm not so sure I'm following the part about the potential Windows Phone 8 success... They use ARM as well so I'm not sure how that will promote x86? Thinking about it I'm not quite sure Microsoft doesn't use Medfield for their new WP lineup?!?! Then legacy windows 7 apps would run on them right?

 

[kylej1050]

If the Surface Pro with x86 can pull off great battery life, or even better than Android tablets which won't be too hard, its possible you will see phones using x86. Super easy with WP8.

Sent from my HTC Arrive using Board Express

 

[sentimentGX4]

They use ARM as well so I'm not sure how that will promote x86?

Only an x86 Windows Phone represents a miniaturized Windows 8. An ARM Windows Phone represents a miniaturized Windows RT.

As you know, there are a lot of program incompatibilities with Windows RT. A Windows Phone MUST use x86 to run all the programs on the Windows OS we all know and tolerate.

 

[thelastfoiter]

I never really gave it a thought but after posting this, a Medfield WP8 device would be sick! Bringing back the pocket pc baby

 

[jdevenberg]

I think it will be ARM. I think Intel has lost the mobile space. Medfield is too little too late. Most phones sold are cheap phones and a cheap ARM processor will always be the go to for that category at this point. I think the big problem for Intel is that there really isn't a big problem with ARM chips on mobile that it's chips will do better at. iOS is already written for ARM chips as are Windows Phone, BB10, and the soon to be open source WebOS. Ya, Android runs using a VM so it can easily deploy to whatever processor, but ARM will be cheaper for the fore seeable future, and if a manufacturer cared more about experience than profit, they wouldn't be selling Android in the first place.


For the record, I'd prefer it if both were neck and neck, I don't want one to rule. It would spur both platforms to aim for even better performance and lower power drain, which would be a win for all of us. I just don't think it will happen.

 

[thelastfoiter]

There would be benefits as prices would drop and innovation would accelerate, but so would fragmentation I think. ARM has no need to rush new and creative ideas since there is no competition in cheap, low power processors. I think AMD is in a great position to jump into mobile with their fantastic APU's and they accept slim profit margins as well, they are the android of processors.

 

[socialcarpet]

Intel is a long, long way away from Intel Atom phones being practical. For every step forward they move in energy efficiency, ARM moves forward 2-3 steps.

 

[sentimentGX4]

Intel is a long, long way away from Intel Atom phones being practical. For every step forward they move in energy efficiency, ARM moves forward 2-3 steps.

I disagree with the statement about x86 and energy efficiency. Have you read reviews regarding the Orange San Diego?

It is better than the previous Gen dual core ARM Cortex A9s in terms of efficiency. It may not be the leader in the market; but, yes, their chips are "practical" for usage.

 

[johnmcd348]

What about the possibility of a hybridization in the future? I've watched how technology advances over the years and can see the possibility of an x86 chip set built into smaller devices that run on small battery powered units. Sound really far fetched? Look at teh Zilog Z80 microprocessor.

You kids who grew up using the TI-83's in Math class were running a battery powered Z80 computer in your hand. That very same Z80 chip was what I learned to program BASIC on in my Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4 back in the 80's running under a TRS-DOS.

 

[socialcarpet]

I disagree with the statement about x86 and energy efficiency. Have you read reviews regarding the Orange San Diego?

It is better than the previous Gen dual core ARM Cortex A9s in terms of efficiency. It may not be the leader in the market; but, yes, their chips are "practical" for usage.

No, I haven't read about the Orange San Diego, will look into it though.

I think some competition for the ARM architecture might be a good thing, competition usually benefits the consumer.

That said, ARM is firmly entrenched, there are dozens of companies building and researching ARM variants for mobile devices and they have been for a long time. There are scores of logic boards and associated components developed to work with ARM, millions of lines of code and generations of development.

Intel has virtually no one buy themselves trying to develop x86 for mobile devices. Intel is extremely capable, but they have their work cut out for them here. I would honestly be amazed if we see smartphones with Intel CPU's in them anytime in the next 3 years. The tablets I think are a given, but the issue isn't just with hardware, it's also with the face that companies probably don't want to maintain two different versions of their OS and have app development forked etc.

I just don't think there is any room for Intel in the smartphone space unless one of the major OS's decides to go 100% Intel. Say if Microsoft decided to move Windows Phone to 100% x86 architecture at some point in the future.

 

[jfa1]

I am going to be looking hard at the surface pro because I am wanting to put a bnk filing program on the tablet for my practice!

 

[based_graham]

ARM is getting higher faster than x86 is going lower.

 

[rdubmu]

But the ARM Windows 8 won't beable to run Windows 8, only Windows 8 RT. The problem is that there will be no desktop app accept for desktop IE and Office

 

[Nataku4ca]

personally speaking, intel made alot of headway into the mobile space and has been trying pretty hard in the last few years, so i have pretty high hopes for them

they're the only one that design and manufacture all in house and is leading in the fabrication process, assuming medfield gets enough attention and the ones that follow start being power efficient enough to compete with arm and maintain top tier processing speed i think they can dominate the market

unless Qualcomm can do some amazing things i think it will end up being a battle between Intel and nVidia, (not sure if AMD is even trying in here...)

 

[jdevenberg]

personally speaking, intel made alot of headway into the mobile space and has been trying pretty hard in the last few years, so i have pretty high hopes for them

they're the only one that design and manufacture all in house and is leading in the fabrication process, assuming medfield gets enough attention and the ones that follow start being power efficient enough to compete with arm and maintain top tier processing speed i think they can dominate the market

unless Qualcomm can do some amazing things i think it will end up being a battle between Intel and nVidia, (not sure if AMD is even trying in here...)

What makes you say that? The dual core Snapdragon S4 has consistently outperformed the quad core Tegra 3 and Qualcom already has LTE integrated in its chips, unlike nVidia. I think Texas Instruments and its OMAP line of processors are the ones who will not succeed.

 

[Nataku4ca]

What makes you say that? The dual core Snapdragon S4 has consistently outperformed the quad core Tegra 3 and Qualcom already has LTE integrated in its chips, unlike nVidia. I think Texas Instruments and its OMAP line of processors are the ones who will not succeed.

i agree with what you said, but the way I see it is that NVidia has a lot more to leverage from such as graphics card and (if im not mistaken) server running off of tegra, I think in order for Qualcomm to really remain ahead at like it is currently, it's going to have to be able to do more than just mobile processors

this is assuming NVidia keeps up their current improvement speed though, I don't think x86 is going anywhere soon, so Qualcomm may be king for Arm now, but what happens if x86 manages to catch on and NVidia can stick tiny graphic card with intel cpus while still making powerful arm processors on their own?

again this is all based on assumptions and me looking at it from a broader spectrum than just mobile space

 

[ljkelley]

The problem with Intel Medfield is it is single core. While ARM is now hitting quad core with lower power requirements and Medfield is barely more powerful.

The good news of course is competion and with the new NT Kernel, for the end user I don't think it will matter weither you have ARM or x86 in your phone. For now Intel has a plus on the tablet side due to legacy apps. But as things change over to Metro that will become less relavent.

 

[yeeshy]

ARM is getting higher faster than x86 is going lower.