08-02-2012 12:33 PM
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  1. CHIP72's Avatar
    Microsoft wish to have a renown product like Blackberries. The name Windows Phone instantly makes people defensive and RIM had a huge market share before, they can win it again. I wouldn't rule them out.
    Doesn't the name "Blackberry" conjure up similar defensive thoughts at this point?

    I have a Blackberry Playbook, and it is a very good device, much, much easier to use than the various Blackberry smartphones out there. But the Playbook has had a very difficult time gaining traction in the market, and I think a lot of that is due to people's increasing negative attitude towards RIM.
    eric12341 likes this.
    07-29-2012 10:21 AM
  2. shingi_70's Avatar
    Eh while I'm personally on team WP. I think that rim has a shot at taking the #3 spot.
    07-29-2012 11:09 AM
  3. AngryNil's Avatar
    He used to be very defensive about WP, this behavior he's exhibiting now didn't start till after the 7.8 debacle.
    Cute, I love how you see yourself as some higher authority around here, passing judgement on other community members. I'm simply opinionated about certain things. I don't like unnecessary or uninformed criticism of Windows Phone, but I equally dislike unnecessary and uninformed support of it. And why would I? I want the platform to be a winner on its own merits.

    I chime in where I feel the opposite viewpoint has not been fully presented. Here, that might translate to the disappointments of reality regarding Windows Phone - it has to be much more than "just enough", or users don't have a real reason to switch and in terms of apps, will have to make a conscious choice to settle for less. It doesn't have the market share to get regular companies to support the platform, and the 7.8 debacle is not pretty.

    A true enthusiast would not lie to themselves, try to suppress those facts, or do the whole "oh, thinking about it, I'll be just fine with compromise X, Y and Z". I'll give Microsoft flack where I think they deserve it, but I'll also continue to be a Windows and Windows Phone user, and a content one at that.

    There's no way BB10 will be superior to WP8. It's a full OS on a phone pretty much.
    How does the underlying architecture guarantee technical superiority? What's more important is what user-facing functionality is presented. An example: if Microsoft does nothing to change how applications restart their instances yet keeps the task switcher 1) in a less-than-ideal location (ie long press), 2) limited in terms of the number of screens visible at any one instant, and 3) does not lift the artificial task limit of five, then WP8's multitasking story still isn't that great.

    Microsoft could bring the task switcher to a hardware button and get rid of the search button, considering that existing devices will not get WP8. Microsoft can change the design of the task switcher, and can easily lift the task limit completely, or change the number to something higher. None of these are issues with the kernel or low-level system.

    Windows Phone 7 is artificially restrained in many ways, and it's not to do with Windows CE. There are a tonne of options that surface when you dig into the registry, yet Microsoft didn't provide any interface to interact with these options.
    Last edited by AngryNil; 07-30-2012 at 02:35 AM. Reason: Grammar
    MrBurrrns and snowmutt like this.
    07-30-2012 12:00 AM
  4. cckgz4's Avatar
    BB10 might not become #1 but it will be far superior with proper management and updates.
    you rambled that off like it was facts. It won't be for my needs
    07-30-2012 04:22 AM
  5. cckgz4's Avatar
    Cute, I love how you see yourself as some higher authority around here, passing judgement on other community members. I'm simply opinionated about certain things. I don't like unnecessary or uninformed criticism of Windows Phone, but I equally dislike unnecessary and uninformed support of it. And why would I? I want the platform to be a winner on its own merits.

    I chime in where I feel the opposite viewpoint has not been fully presented. Here, that might translate to the disappointments of reality regarding Windows Phone - it has to be much more than "just enough", or users don't have a real reason to switch and in terms of apps, will have to make a conscious choice to settle for less. It doesn't have the market share to get regular companies to support the platform, and the 7.8 debacle is not pretty.

    A true enthusiast would not lie to themselves, try to suppress those facts, or do the whole "oh, thinking about it, I'll be just fine with compromise X, Y and Z". I'll give Microsoft flack where I think they deserve it, but I'll also continue to be a Windows and Windows Phone user, and a content one at that.


    How does the underlying architecture guarantee technical superiority? What's more important is what user-facing functionality is presented. An example: if Microsoft does nothing to change how applications restart their instances yet keeps the task switcher 1) in a less-than-ideal location (ie long press), 2) limited in terms of the number of screens visible at any one instant, and 3) does not lift the artificial task limit of five, then WP8's multitasking story still isn't that great.

    Microsoft could bring the task switcher to a hardware button and get rid of the search button, considering that existing devices will not get WP8. Microsoft can change the design of the task switcher, and can easily lift the task limit completely, or change the number to something higher. None of these are issues with the kernel or low-level system.

    Windows Phone 7 is artificially restrained in many ways, and it's not to do with Windows CE. There are a tonne of options that surface when you dig into the registry, yet Microsoft didn't provide any interface to interact with these options.
    love this guy, no sarcasm.

    And bb has some of their own kinks to work out as well though. Rebranding their new os, phone restarts after installing a new app, battery life that old blackberry users are accustomed to, getting recognizable apps on board at launch, etc. Not saying Microsoft doesn't have their own problems, but I feel personally that their time is coming now
    AngryNil and snowmutt like this.
    07-30-2012 04:27 AM
  6. diplomat696's Avatar
    BB should abandon their OS and jump in with WP8 that way you can really take a chunk out of the market share that google and frapple posess right now.

    Combining the enterprise features of BB and WP to me seems like it would make sense no?
    07-30-2012 12:44 PM
  7. N8ter's Avatar
    A lot of uneducated commentary in this thread. How many people have played with the BB10 Dev Kit/Emulator much less used a BB10 device. Speak from the correct perspective (emphasize that). BB10 is a bigger rewrite than WP7 could have hoped to be. It's a completely different beast. As different from BB7.1 as Windows 8 is from Windows 1.0.
    07-30-2012 01:18 PM
  8. Mio_Ray's Avatar
    I would love to see BB10 make it. It seems to be an awesome OS. BB was a great device for me and I wouldn't mind owning one again. I just think they are too late, devices and updates has not a good history of being on time and personally I am too amazed by Windows Phone and where the whole MS environment is going.
    07-30-2012 01:30 PM
  9. eric12341's Avatar
    Cute, I love how you see yourself as some higher authority around here, passing judgement on other community members. I'm simply opinionated about certain things. I don't like unnecessary or uninformed criticism of Windows Phone, but I equally dislike unnecessary and uninformed support of it. And why would I? I want the platform to be a winner on its own merits.

    I chime in where I feel the opposite viewpoint has not been fully presented. Here, that might translate to the disappointments of reality regarding Windows Phone - it has to be much more than "just enough", or users don't have a real reason to switch and in terms of apps, will have to make a conscious choice to settle for less. It doesn't have the market share to get regular companies to support the platform, and the 7.8 debacle is not pretty.

    A true enthusiast would not lie to themselves, try to suppress those facts, or do the whole "oh, thinking about it, I'll be just fine with compromise X, Y and Z". I'll give Microsoft flack where I think they deserve it, but I'll also continue to be a Windows and Windows Phone user, and a content one at that.


    How does the underlying architecture guarantee technical superiority? What's more important is what user-facing functionality is presented. An example: if Microsoft does nothing to change how applications restart their instances yet keeps the task switcher 1) in a less-than-ideal location (ie long press), 2) limited in terms of the number of screens visible at any one instant, and 3) does not lift the artificial task limit of five, then WP8's multitasking story still isn't that great.

    Microsoft could bring the task switcher to a hardware button and get rid of the search button, considering that existing devices will not get WP8. Microsoft can change the design of the task switcher, and can easily lift the task limit completely, or change the number to something higher. None of these are issues with the kernel or low-level system.

    Windows Phone 7 is artificially restrained in many ways, and it's not to do with Windows CE. There are a tonne of options that surface when you dig into the registry, yet Microsoft didn't provide any interface to interact with these options.

    The 7.8 debacle is no different than what apple does, they just changed the version number up a bit, Android devices have their task switchers in similar places as well in fact it actually varies by phone making it even less than ideal. A majority of smartphone users do not care about apps there was an article on here a couple months back that proved that. Many devs also stated that they have interest in developing for WP8 as well.
    07-30-2012 04:36 PM
  10. MrBurrrns's Avatar
    The 7.8 debacle is no different than what apple does, they just changed the version number up a bit, Android devices have their task switchers in similar places as well in fact it actually varies by phone making it even less than ideal. A majority of smartphone users do not care about apps there was an article on here a couple months back that proved that. Many devs also stated that they have interest in developing for WP8 as well.
    Oh please. It's not the same as what Apple does because with Apple there is no virtually no fragmentation. Android devices have true multitasking, WP7 does not. Majority of users do not care about the number of apps in the store, they care about QUALITY apps. And WP lacks them. And lastly, interest schminterest. You just said users don't care about apps?
    07-30-2012 05:57 PM
  11. eric12341's Avatar
    Oh please. It's not the same as what Apple does because with Apple there is no virtually no fragmentation. Android devices have true multitasking, WP7 does not. Majority of users do not care about the number of apps in the store, they care about QUALITY apps. And WP lacks them. And lastly, interest schminterest. You just said users don't care about apps?

    Yes it is exactly the same thing, not even apple has true multitasking and it's not bothering people. WP has plenty of quality apps,lots of which look better than they do on iOS/Android. Apps are really supposed to do what the OS already couldn't and WP eliminates the need for half of what people install apps for on iOS/Android. When WP8 hits it'll probably be around 90%.
    07-30-2012 08:00 PM
  12. based_graham's Avatar
    Blackberry is certified garbage. It's a toy there is no ecosystem behind it. What else does RIM have to offer other than messaging which is totally overrated.

    What a secure enterprise features? Really I need another server just to run their stupid BES platform to receive e-mail on a phone?

    You know what hold up. I rather not spend 2 G's on a server and build a Microsoft Exchange server and use Windows Phone saves me $$$ and the handsets are cheaper.

    Going with Windows is the right thing if you love Blackberrys stick to it no problem with that but IMO their garbage *** toys straight to the garbage bin.
    eric12341 likes this.
    07-30-2012 08:13 PM
  13. cckgz4's Avatar
    Oh please. It's not the same as what Apple does because with Apple there is no virtually no fragmentation. Android devices have true multitasking, WP7 does not. Majority of users do not care about the number of apps in the store, they care about QUALITY apps. And WP lacks them. And lastly, interest schminterest. You just said users don't care about apps?
    How is it NOT the same when ios 4 came out, the first gen iPhone couldn't support some of the newly toted features.
    eric12341 likes this.
    07-31-2012 12:56 AM
  14. AngryNil's Avatar
    The 7.8 debacle is no different than what apple does, they just changed the version number up a bit, Android devices have their task switchers in similar places as well in fact it actually varies by phone making it even less than ideal.
    It's slightly different in that developers have a much larger incentive to code for the new platform - by writing a WP8 app, they can easily port to W8. It seems weird to worry about this, but what happens if we see 20 million WP8s a quarter next year? I can see WP7 completely left in the dust if that kind of thing happens. iOS has the sizable existing user base, but it's possible for WP8 to outnumber WP7 within a quarter.

    I haven't really bothered to look at the button placement on Android devices, but Galaxy Nexus does have a multitasking button, albeit a virtual one (which annoys me). There are a few advantages with Android 4.x: no five-app limit, more apps fit on screen at once, and apps can be closed by swiping. I'd personally be happy if Microsoft lifted the limit (not because of the switcher, but because I want apps to stay in memory) and set WP8 to resume instances rather than restart them.

    And bb has some of their own kinks to work out as well though. Rebranding their new os, phone restarts after installing a new app, battery life that old blackberry users are accustomed to, getting recognizable apps on board at launch, etc.
    For the record, I personally see no future in BlackBerry. :]
    07-31-2012 02:23 AM
  15. Scout_313's Avatar
    I bought a Playbook on day one and I must say that for a first stab at a new OS, it was a pretty good start especially when you compared it to their phone OS. Also, from what I've seen of BB10 it appears as though they've made a truly innovative product, so long as you don't have to depend on their BES/BIS servers to get your e-mail. I think their biggest problem will be in overcoming public perception based on BB7 and below, which is similar to what Microsoft had to do with WP7. If people actually give it a chance, I definitely think RIM has a chance to survive.

    As to WP8, I think that being much more closely related to Windows 8 will be a huge plus. Having a phone that works seamlessly with your computer is a huge selling point. OTA updates will also be a big improvement as both Android and iOS now feature it. Personally, I'd love to see them run a promo where you get a free WP8 phone if you purchase a new W8 computer or Surface tablet as I just sold my MacBook Pro due to my disdain for Apple as a company.
    eric12341 likes this.
    07-31-2012 09:32 AM
  16. snowmutt's Avatar
    Count me in the group that just doesn't want to see BlackBerry die. I think if you look at the landscape of mobile, billions of handsets are sold a year. More people have cell phones than running water in the world. It is a bigger industry than computers and Automotive (although auto's contribute more to secondary businesses). It has replaced mp3 players, portable gaming, and in some cases even netbooks.

    It is a HUGE industry, and I believe 4-5 OS's could survive so long as smart phones continue on the path of slowly outselling feature phones. WP could easily be the #3 OS and there still be room for BB10 to be successful. I just feel the mobile industry is better with RIM and more competition in it.
    Alex_Hong likes this.
    07-31-2012 12:47 PM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Count me in the group that just doesn't want to see BlackBerry die. I think if you look at the landscape of mobile, billions of handsets are sold a year. More people have cell phones than running water in the world. It is a bigger industry than computers and Automotive (although auto's contribute more to secondary businesses). It has replaced mp3 players, portable gaming, and in some cases even netbooks.



    It is a HUGE industry, and I believe 4-5 OS's could survive so long as smart phones continue on the path of slowly outselling feature phones. WP could easily be the #3 OS and there still be room for BB10 to be successful. I just feel the mobile industry is better with RIM and more competition in it.
    I agree with you. Although I'm over BlackBerry, I feel that more competition is always better for consumers.

    BlackBerry could be successful in a specific niche market.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    07-31-2012 01:05 PM
  18. eric12341's Avatar
    I agree with you. Although I'm over BlackBerry, I feel that more competition is always better for consumers.

    BlackBerry could be successful in a specific niche market.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

    I agree, BB is still successful in Latin America, especially south America. I talk to girls from Ecuador,Colombia and Venezuela and they all have Blackberries, only one has an iPhone.
    07-31-2012 02:02 PM
  19. bear_lx's Avatar
    im pretty sure blackberry is beyond repair at this point. BB10 sounds like a big improvement from bb7, but way too late... **** windows phone is too late but at least MS has the money and resources to buy into it, BB doesnt at this piont... they lived a good life, but its pretty much over.

    MS is gainging traction and it will only speed up with windows 8, and im not a huge fan of the new UI, but metro everything i am. i love the new outlook, fluent UI amongst apps
    07-31-2012 02:13 PM
  20. menaknow's Avatar
    It's never too late for an OS.

    Android proved that fact already. Change just doesn't happen overnight.

    The comparisons between BB10 and WP8 are laughable. At the moment both are unknowns. Unknowns in the sense the final product is not known, only bits and pieces that have been seen.

    The new BB10 development environment is actually well built.

    And RIM is catering to HTML5/JS developers just as Microsoft is. Windows 8 on the other hand is doing great also.

    As far as I am concern, I can't predict the future, but right now there is no telling who will be in that 3rd spot.
    07-31-2012 03:05 PM
  21. cgk's Avatar
    I agree, BB is still successful in Latin America, especially south America. I talk to girls from Ecuador,Colombia and Venezuela and they all have Blackberries, only one has an iPhone.
    It's basically gives the phones away at cost in return for an ever-decreasing amount of service revenue - it's not a sustainable model.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-31-2012 04:07 PM
  22. bear_lx's Avatar
    It's basically gives the phones away at cost in return for an ever-decreasing amount of service revenue - it's not a sustainable model.
    exactly.... in addition, most of those countries dont offer much of anything else in the way of smartphones. so BB is the best they have to chose from. not in all markets but most of them. i travel a lot and speak from experience
    07-31-2012 04:12 PM
  23. cgk's Avatar
    exactly.... in addition, most of those countries dont offer much of anything else in the way of smartphones. so BB is the best they have to chose from. not in all markets but most of them. i travel a lot and speak from experience
    The big draw is cheap BIS which gives internet and access to BBM but that is going under pressure from two areas - carriers in those areas are starting to improve their own offerings and also they increasingly want a larger share of the BIS revenue.

    That is why BB10 is so important to RIM, the idea (hope?) is that those will be premium devices that will appeal to customers in places like North America who have turned their back on RIM and will attract decent gross margins.
    07-31-2012 04:20 PM
  24. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    It seems weird to worry about this, but what happens if we see 20 million WP8s a quarter next year? I can see WP7 completely left in the dust if that kind of thing happens. ]
    Don't worry about it. 20 million devices is not going to happen. Microsoft hasn't shown us anything groundbreaking that would cause users to swap en masse.

    Even with added functionality, the shift would likely be gradual. We would have to wait for users' contracts to expire as well as consumers to realize that WP8 has more functions that competitors.

    It'd probably be wise for Microsoft to start publicizing some cutting edge WP8 apps now; but, I'm not seeing it. Any developer commitment like full Photoshop would be nice. As of right now, it seems like we're going to be stuck with Office Mobile again.

    Microsoft should also experiment with different marketing strategies, such as bundling phones with computers. Smoked With Windows Phone should definitely repeated, except this time, it needs TV ads to go with it. More people should have jumped on free! phone.
    07-31-2012 05:55 PM
  25. Speedygi's Avatar
    Quality of the OS? It is a factor but not as big a one as people think - what really counts is the ability to have massive economics of scale in the supply chain, spend hundreds of millions if not billions on marketing, the same again on carrier tie-ins. Odd as it seems, RIM is now too small (relative to the major players in the market) to have those advantages.

    Their burn rate is going to increase over the next two quarters and the decline in both arpu for both devices and services is going to hurt them - they will burn through their cash simply trying to keep up during the launch of BB10 (if they don't blow the new deadline).

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    You want me to do a Yoda on you? You know you want to..

    Quality in an Operating system is everything...and if BB10 is going to have great groundbreaking features I'm going to go on board in a hurry. I don't care if It doesn't have what other Operating systems have, innovation is what drives products and companies forward.

    In that regard, BB10 would be primed to make an impact no matter how that turns out to be...I don't want another WP8 or IOS 6, and this will not happen with BB10. It will push technology forward. That in itself will keep RIM competitive.
    07-31-2012 10:54 PM
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