End of simplicity??

[Big Supes]

Oh, that's right. So we don't have a no-compromise solution for the old WP7 look. Nice of you to let me know.

You're welcome.

The amount of white space on an iOS or Android home screen versus the amount of white space on a WP8 home screen is not subjective or opinion. I truly hope you're not being serious about all this, because it's coming off as pure ignorance.

I see the "irony" comment clearly bounced off your head.

You're ignorant of the fact that -whether or not the gutter is important- is subjective. No one is debated whether it's been removed or not. Quite clearly.

Which is why I'm proposing an option, since it wouldn't be that great on smaller screens.

I didn't get that part. An option could work, I guess. I only fear that if they implemented all the 'options' everyone wanted, it would look somewhat like Android; sometimes you just have to get over it.

 

[Xaphoon148]

It's LIVE tiles and I really like to have the opportunity
to change size. Live makes the difference

Isn't everybody though, that's gonna buy a smartphone...
Me to a colleague; today Nokia and MS announce the new WP8! (big smile on face)
Colleague; ????????
Me; well, you know... (stopped there, his expression made it clear that I've had hours of explanations...) And there's not that long till they announce...

Guess he keeps his "smart enough" phone... ;-)

Here it is, and it actually DO work...

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=442BDC1519CEAD8D!261&authkey=!APxq3x03yhNuC5w

 

[AngryNil]

You're ignorant of the fact that -whether or not the gutter is important- is subjective. No one is debated whether it's been removed or not. Quite clearly.

You should go back to the quote, where you highlighted my "opinion as fact" line and then the part where I said iOS and Android have their home screens more balanced (through white space) than WP8.

I'm not thick; you know that I readily admitted that some people simply don't care for it. Why 1) so many are interested in only what Microsoft decides to dictate (keeping in mind the large amount of arbitrary restrictions made to the platform which have hurt it) and 2) disinterest turns into a snobbish attitude of "deal with it" is what concerns me.

I sure wouldn't have liked to just deal with no task switcher and no copy and paste.

 

[X0LARIUM]

You should go back to the quote, where you highlighted my "opinion as fact" line and then the part where I said iOS and Android have their home screens more balanced (through white space) than WP8.

I'm not thick; you know that I readily admitted that some people simply don't care for it. Why 1) so many are interested in only what Microsoft decides to dictate (keeping in mind the large amount of arbitrary restrictions made to the platform which have hurt it) and 2) disinterest turns into a snobbish attitude of "deal with it" is what concerns me.

I sure wouldn't have liked to just deal with no task switcher and no copy and paste.

Ok, Big Supes, sorry to barge in but let me answer this one.

Ok, AngryNil, listen,

A. Its not JUST Microsoft but every other company. Apple, Android, HTC you name it..when was the last time you emailed/called a company and they said, "Oh thank you so very much AngryNil. You will surely see the changes you want in our next device." A month later, spec sheet reads:

'Gutter space is now optional.' Special thanks to AngryNil.

Common man, they can't please every single person. If you don't like the option removed, which you do clearly, don't buy a WP and go throw money at Apple. Let's see how much they listen to you.


B. What's up with the agression? Tone down a little man, it's not like your life depends on each new option introduced and every single one removed
(or does it? :straight.

 

[anon(5325154)]

I also miss the gutter space.

For sure, MS cannot please everyone. But it is also clear they do listen to what customers have to say, since they have implemented features that many have asked for (like being able to put the tabs button on the IE address bar in WP8)

As many of you probably know there is a site MS uses to collect feedback. In fact, there's a request for an option to enable/disable the gutter space. So let's let MS know that some of us do care for the gutter space and the beautiful aesthetics of the WP7 start screen by voting for it below!

Add setting to enable the "gutter" and app arrow in WP 7.8/8

 

[Big Supes]

You should go back to the quote, where you highlighted my "opinion as fact" line and then the part where I said iOS and Android have their home screens more balanced (through white space) than WP8.

You're doing it again. Whether or not someone feels iOS or Android is "more balanced" due to the white space is purely subjective; it subject to personal preference. I recall debating members here who stated the gutter was a complete waste of space as the tiles were big enough on Mango.

I don't understand the confusion.

I'm not thick; you know that I readily admitted that some people simply don't care for it. Why 1) so many are interested in only what Microsoft decides to dictate (keeping in mind the large amount of arbitrary restrictions made to the platform which have hurt it) and 2) disinterest turns into a snobbish attitude of "deal with it" is what concerns me.

Hey, no one is accusing you of being "thick". I'm merely struggling to understand, fully, where you're coming from. And to suggest I, or anyone else who doesn't share your 'opinion' are spoon-fed anything from MS is an insult.

I sure wouldn't have liked to just deal with no task switcher and no copy and paste.

Are you claiming you are somehow responsible for these?

 

[Big Supes]

Ok, Big Supes, sorry to barge in but let me answer this one.

Ok, AngryNil, listen,

A. Its not JUST Microsoft but every other company. Apple, Android, HTC you name it..when was the last time you emailed/called a company and they said, "Oh thank you so very much AngryNil. You will surely see the changes you want in our next device." A month later, spec sheet reads:

'Gutter space is now optional.' Special thanks to AngryNil.

Common man, they can't please every single person. If you don't like the option removed, which you do clearly, don't buy a WP and go throw money at Apple. Let's see how much they listen to you.


B. What's up with the agression? Tone down a little man, it's not like your life depends on each new option introduced and every single one removed
(or does it? :straight.

Gutter Space - R.I.P.

Just kidding, AngryNii.

 

[tekhna]

The new start screen is a cluttered mess. IMHO.

 

[Marute]

This discussion is useless. People should really do their homework before thay cry about WP not being simple anymore... The whole point is you can customize it like you want to, so if you want it simple you just keep it simple. And if you want a lot to pop up and show and tell, you add some extra live tiles. Your choice.

 

[sting7k]

Absolutely. I know of that. If I don't like the smaller ones, I can change it. But doesn't the knew one look slightly cluttered...? Just a question..

Sent from my RaZr NeXus.

I think it's great. I found the WP7 start screen to be sorely lacking. You can still have it look exactly like your WP7 screen anyway with all those big tiles. I found the big tiles a little tiring after you got to many. To scroll to the bottom took to long especially on the Lumia 900 which for some reason did not have inertial scrolling. I also felt the gutter space on the side was a waste as well forcing me to have less information density and scroll longer. It felt like my iPhone in 2007 which didn't even have a full home screen of icons at the time; and were static.

 

[tekhna]

This discussion is useless. People should really do their homework before thay cry about WP not being simple anymore... The whole point is you can customize it like you want to, so if you want it simple you just keep it simple. And if you want a lot to pop up and show and tell, you add some extra live tiles. Your choice.

Customization is good when it's WP, bad when it's Android? The arguments around here are just incoherent.

 

[karoc]

The clutter isn't such a big deal, since that's easily customizable.

What's more annoying is losing the gutter and thereby showing less on the homescreen - we're losing about an entire row of small tiles (depending on aspect ratio) compared to Mango. Obviously you can see more compared to 7.5 with the small tiles in WP8 but small tiles + gutter = maximum home screen space.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_yQVsz5nYDw/UDpKClBs0SI/AAAAAAAAA8k/a9CbHh49KFk/s320/WP7Homescreen.PNG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fjecrqBdEvE/UDpKVMVYnGI/AAAAAAAAA80/eVBr-n_J5vQ/s320/WP8Homescreen.PNG

You can also clearly see this effect in post #8 on this thread.

 

[power5]

Somehow I missed that there would be 3 resolutions for wp8.

Karoc is right. Removing the gutter actually gives less vertical screen space. I just watched the nokia event. On his screen he only has 3 visible tiles of the original size. So yes, we did lose real estate since we lost the gutter. So anyone who comments against that is using small tiles as a crutch for this fact. Yes, you can fit more tiles since you can do small tiles, but you have less vertical space than we did on 7.5. So removing the gutter loses almost an entire medium tile height.

But hey, we can now take a screen shot.

 

[blehblehbleh]

The ball's in your court. You can't complain an opt-in gutter breaks uniformity when something similar can already be achieved on stock WP8. You can customize WP8 to have empty space on either side, and tiles are tiles are tiles. The gutter does not break uniformity any more than the ability to dynamically rearrange tiles does.

A makeshift gutter isn't the same thing as the real gutter in WP7. Having the three size tiles with the real deal is different than without it and being able to sort your tiles so there is additional black spacing.

 

[Jazmac]

Maybe someone already said but if you want your desktop to remain the way it is, size your icons and keep it simple. Your choice.

 

[cckgz4]

Customization is good when it's WP, bad when it's Android? The arguments around here are just incoherent.

so is yours. Really? Its a cluttered mess? An EXAMPLE of something that YOU can create to be WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE, is a cluttered mess?



Go back to lurking

 

[StefEBear]

Screen Shots

there should be a mockup thread on how each of us you do our screens. I can't wait. I just wish 7.8/8 would come sooner.

Sent from my PI86100 using Board Express

And we will be able to add in screen shots now seeing is that is a confirmed addition to Windows Phone 8

 

[power5]

Maybe someone already said but if you want your desktop to remain the way it is, size your icons and keep it simple. Your choice.

Except I just lost a row of tiles because the gutter was removed. So now I only get 3 rows visible instead of 4. But at least they are going to be higher res larger squares.

The main gripe about the sizeability of tiles was to get more information without scrolling. So they increase resolution which would have given us at least 2 more rows of icons but then they made them larger pixel wise. Then they made them larger when removing the gutter. Now we end up with less info if we use the original size tiles.

Here is a comparison. Obviously the 3 wide is not a good idea. Shows the size of WP7 resolution tiles on the 768 screen of wp8. They turn out to be in between the new medium tile and the new small tile.

 

[AngryNil]

Are you claiming you are somehow responsible for these?

Are you being purposely dense in an attempt to rile me up, or do you honestly not understand the concept of critique? Just because I won't get a response doesn't mean I am not entitled to share my thoughts. In fact, I sure hope this isn't your approach to life - "who cares, no one's going to hear you".

 

[Big Supes]

Are you being purposely dense in an attempt to rile me up

I'm not trying to be funny, but you do a grand job of getting riled up without my help.

do you honestly not understand the concept of critique?

I get it. I have yet to see how copy & paste and app-switching came as a direct result of your, or anyone else's critique though.

Bottom line: I can't reason with the argument that everyone's criticisms combined would create the perfect OS. I couldn't think of anything worse, TBH.

Just because I won't get a response doesn't mean I am not entitled to share my thoughts. In fact, I sure hope this isn't your approach to life - "who cares, no one's going to hear you".

Share away, dude. I wouldn't just wouldn't claim that your criticisms have directly benefited the platform and expect everyone to agree with your gripes.