11-17-2012 10:23 PM
78 1234
  1. jwinch2's Avatar
    We are all doomed! Windows Phone will be washed away by the unstoppable tidal wave of BlackBerry 10!
    I'm not sure if that was directed at me or not since I brought up BB10 in an earlier post, but I will respond anyway. I don't think Windows Phone is doomed because of BB10 at all.

    I do think, however, that MS has this frame of time with nothing new coming from Android, iPhone 5 has already been released, and BB10 is not due until Feb of 2013. This window of time is a gift, and MS should use it to their advantage. One of the big areas that RIM is touting in terms of Blackberry and their new OS, is security of the system. This is something that Microsoft has worked on very hard with WP8 and it would be crazy in my view for them to not trumpet this for companies looking for a platform to adopt for business purposes.

    RIM has long recognized the needs of the business world when designing their devices and their OS. That is the reason you see so many BB devices without a camera, even in recent years. Persons who work in some government buildings, courthouses, or even certain business are forbidden from bringing a camera into the building. BB knows this and smartly, put out a couple of devices here and there with no camera. Am I saying that MS should put out a cameraless phone? Not necessarily. What I am saying is that MS should strongly pursue business adoption by highlighting the things which businesses like to see such as integration across platforms, support, security, etc.
    donaldvc likes this.
    11-15-2012 04:32 PM
  2. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Actually, demonstrably untrue.

    I did a smartphone study last year. We installed observation software on the handsets of participants with their permission (which we later uninstalled).

    45% of smartphone owners used NO smartphone services AT ALL for the entire month. No browsing, no apps. Just phone calls, text messages, and picture messages. (1/3 of iPhone owners believed that they needed a smartphone to send embedded picture messages, BTW).

    Of the remaining 55% or so who used smartphone features...

    1) 45% used the web browser;
    2) About 40% downloaded apps;
    3) The average app was used 1.6 times in a month.

    The vast majority of time spent on the phone was either in text messaging or phone calls, across all devices. While most buyers picked up a smartphone "with the most apps" because they were told that's what they needed, the vast majority rarely used the apps they downloaded -- even when those apps were paid for.
    Interesting. What was the sample size and data plan options of the people you did this on?
    11-15-2012 06:52 PM
  3. cckgz4's Avatar
    @Jax Android has a LOT of devices on various carriers
    11-16-2012 02:29 AM
  4. downhillrider's Avatar
    We'll know how WP is doing when the numbers are released. I'm enjoying my 920. I know that I went to Target today, the only Target in Seattle and they had no WP8 phones. One of the guys had no idea a new WP OS came out.
    11-16-2012 05:45 AM
  5. phonegeeks's Avatar
    I have been looking for Lumia 920 unlocked but haven't had any luck so far. The only store that said it had stocks was gsmnation. They are selling OEM versions. What are the pros and cons of OEM?
    11-16-2012 02:05 PM
  6. Isror's Avatar
    The biggest problem with WP8 is the people who have never used the platform listening to what someone else who also has never used the platform tell them. Without knowing the total number of units produced for the initial shipments, its hard to gauge sales, but so far, the reports of vendors selling out is a positive sign. It really takes a user base effort to promote the platform, not just the hardware manufactures and carriers. We are the ultimate sales machine for WP8, being able to show our friends, peers, colleagues, and the passerby how truly unique WP8 is. Yes, I am that annoying guy when in Verizon stores or Best Buy that will jump in on a sale when I hear a salesmen giving a customer total bunk about other quality devices; I'd expect the same from someone else in a field I don't understand.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-16-2012 02:48 PM
  7. menaknow's Avatar
    In the end, it's about three things:

    1) Does it let you do what you want to do (yes);
    2) Is it better FOR YOU than other alternatives (definitely);
    3) Will it continue to sell enough units to get support from the vendor (absolutely).
    Exactly ... +1
    11-16-2012 03:46 PM
  8. sirfly2fly's Avatar
    Just read thru the whole thread and majority of posts seem to mention apps opposed to features of the OS. Also in regards to the "marathon vs. sprint" comments BB10 seems to be who WP8 will be going against sorta like they're in their own league until they start taking chunks out of iOS and Android market share. I don't really see Android losing too much market share yet until some of their OEMs get in real financial trouble well because there are 4 OS to choose from and samsung is doing the best on the platform.
    Back to apps, i think they should take a page out of what RIM is doing. RIM have been opening places for developers to go to in their region and get help developing apps. That right there puts them on a global scale as they have people who deal with the same things as the consumers in that region developing apps for them. The game-a-thon mentioned earlier. I also wanna know why was the SDK released after the phone if you know need apps, and developers need Win8 to develop if im not mistaken, creating a roadblock for developers worldwide.
    As a BB user i'm interested in seeing WP8 succeed along with BB10. I'm sure an update will come to WP8 next year, what features are you interested in seeing added?

    ** just seen a tweet on twitter and 200 games submitted within one hour already..
    Last edited by sirfly2fly; 11-16-2012 at 06:59 PM.
    11-16-2012 04:26 PM
  9. LookitsPuck's Avatar
    Why do they tire you? Because MS is on the bottom?

    The Mac was dead until MS threw them a bone. Its still low market share, but their profits margins are very high, so it makes it worth their time.

    The G1 was an god awful phone. But it caught on dude to the openness. I hated the G1, but the people who had them loved it.
    I bought the original G1, people liked it because it was different from the iPhone, but it wasn't marketed well. Android caught on because of the Droid campaign, not because of the G1. By all accounts the G1's marketing was abysmal.
    11-16-2012 05:24 PM
  10. davide445's Avatar
    Starting from this report

    Press Release - 2012 U.S. Wireless Smartphone Customer Satisfaction Study and 2012 U.S. Wireless Traditional Mobile Phone Satisfaction Study | J.D. Power

    appear that smartphone customers are searching primarly for

    social apps/gaming
    system stability

    Social apps and gaming are connected to device camera features (pictures/movies) and CPU/GPU horsepower.

    More interested to price and less to features.

    I will check from myself since at the end of November I will have my first wp, but reading all the forum appear that power and camera features are not a problem, but there are many stability problems both for devices and social apps.

    My idea is that wp have all the potentiality to do well, but smartphone customers are a lot more volatile than pc users and if they don't like the device/OS they change it in a short time. In smartphone market there are good alternatives to wp, iOS and Android if not BB. PC market it's almost a monopoly so if the new Windows have some problems....we will wait and have some good patience.

    So MS and Nokia/HTC (Samsung its not so involved in my idea in wp business) need to push as hard as they can to have good social app and system stability NOW, not in the next 6 month/ 1 year that is the usual MS timeframe for correcting Windows bugs.

    Start doing monthly updates that work, since after giving a wrong first impression they will never have a second opportunity to differentiate and they need to compete on the price, and that's not sustainable against Android. MS/Nokia/HTC need to integrate their effort, since if people saw a bad working HTC 8X they are thinking to wp8 also, not only to HTC device. Wp devices are recognizable so they all share a brand.

    I have never returned a phone in my life, but I always owned Nokia with the proprietary Symbian OS. Maybe was not so sleek, but I never TOUGHT that can have problems. It was working, always for maybe 18 hours a day.
    I own since 2 years an iPad, that's not a iPhone and so was not involved in complex realtime updates chatting and calling. But also I never have had any problem from FB app to any other I used.

    For the first time I will have a wp. But also for the first time I'm checking in advance for the opportunity to return it if its not working for the 3-4 basic things I request: FB, instant messaging, music/video from private collection (no Xbox music) and also calling/messaging. A serious problem here it's simply not acceptable since I don't want anything sophisticate AND I have alternatives.
    Last edited by davide445; 11-17-2012 at 01:24 AM.
    11-17-2012 01:09 AM
  11. brmiller1976's Avatar
    I'm not sure if that was directed at me or not since I brought up BB10 in an earlier post, but I will respond anyway. I don't think Windows Phone is doomed because of BB10 at all.
    I was being facetious, sorry (it's a core competency of mine). :D

    I just figured I'd invoke a less likely route of terrible possibility in order to liven things up a bit in the negative nancy threads. ;)
    11-17-2012 11:00 AM
  12. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Interesting. What was the sample size and data plan options of the people you did this on?
    It was about 120 users split by marketshare across the four major US carriers, with a median smartphone plan.

    The big users of apps were corporate users, who used Good or proprietary apps to access corporate resources.

    The second largest category was social apps like Facebook.

    The third largest was online banking apps from Citi, Chase, Bank of America, etc.

    I'd imagine that since then, Instagram has become a big app as well, but still... people aren't really aggressively using apps. Those of us who are using apps regularly are outliers.
    11-17-2012 11:05 AM
  13. iamtim's Avatar
    This window of time is a gift, and MS should use it to their advantage.
    I concur. I also think that Microsoft would be well to do some specific BB customer marketing; if they can capture BBs remaining market share before BB10 comes out (which would be a challenge, considering that most people still using BBs are die-hards) they'll be in a good spot as a strong, third option in the smartphone market.

    ...because, really, it would take a miracle to unseat iOS or Android.
    11-17-2012 11:49 AM
  14. brmiller1976's Avatar
    I remember when Android was at 1.3% marketshare, and Apple was dominant. The conventional wisdom of the day was that there was no way that Android would ever take over the market, yet they did.

    (And no, the Verizon "Droid" campaign had little to do with it -- the vast majority of Android sales are outside the USA, where Verizon isn't a significant player).

    Never say "never."

    That said, I expect that WP will be around 10% of the market. Some will support it, some won't. Those who won't will lose my business.

    I have a significant amount of savings and investment with a bank that told me they have no plans for a WP app (though they support iOS to an extreme degree and Android to a limited degree). I told my "relationship manager" that I was thinking of moving to another bank, and she was stunned. I said "I want an app for Windows Phone 8, and Chase offers one while you don't. Please tell that to your senior people and get things moving. A bank branch costs over $1 million to open and staff. A decent mobile app costs $150K to build. Are you really going to tell millions of WP users that you don't want their business and send them to Chase or B of A?"

    We'll see if it makes a difference. Windows Phone users may not be the biggest population out there, but we are 14 million strong, with incomes and needs of our own, and ignoring us completely means that some competitors will simply profit disproportionately from our business.
    11-17-2012 12:07 PM
  15. stephen_az's Avatar
    Okay, let's put away our fan boy goggles and be as objective as possible about this. With Apple not being able to keep up with iphone 5 orders, the GS3 still selling strong, and the Nexus 4 selling out in minutes:

    How well will Windows Phone 8 do this holiday season? Discuss.

    I say not very well, with the vibes I feel for it in Canada at least.
    I really don't see why people even bother with these sorts of posts. This is not an invitation to a legitimate discussion, it is an invitation to trolls and anti-trolls to rant. This is not a sprint, nor is it a marathon, nor is it a game, nor is it a war. It is business. If you want the largest market share it will be Android because you can shove it into anything and it will almost work. If you want the hottest device, it will be from Apple because that is how they have crafted their reputation(and they do make nice devices). There is, however, plenty of room in between and devices that unify experience across multiple platforms have a lot going for them given time and exposure. Of course, none of that works if people keep with the fanboy lovefest and sky is falling hatefest mentalities. They are just phones. Use what works for you and don't waste time worrying about what someone else chooses to use.

    BTW, as far as the devices you name go. I would suggest the following. First, it is not only the holiday season but also the time of year that Apple manipulates its data to make it look like their latest product is an even greater success than the last. That, however, doesn't add up in the real world when you consider their profits are down and their market share is just stable. Second, the GS3 has as many detractors as admirers and sells because it is a heavily discounted device for a "flagship" phone that is available through every carrier. Market saturation actually helps a lot. Third, the Nexus 4 draws a great deal of criticism from the Android user base and sold out due to manufacturing and supply issues, not because it is the fastest selling device on the market. There is also a certain irony to the fact that Google bought Motorola but does not use them to produce their supposed flagship Nexus line. A little realism, and willingness to stop trading business like it is either a game or the latest reality show, can go a long way....
    11-17-2012 02:36 PM
  16. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I think Windows Phone 8 has a reasonable chance of success. It has the backing of Microsoft and there seems to be a reasonable amount of interest regarding the Lumia 920 (not only from WP Central but from non-techie sites that I frequent). Re-sizable live tiles have definitely evoked some consumer interest.

    Also, there are already indications that a shared kernel with Windows RT has generated developer interest. While Windows RT is likely going to fail, developers are still interested in the Windows App Store since it exists on x86 devices as well. High profile apps such as Angry Birds Space and Microsoft's Reader have also already been ported over to WP8 due to its shared NT kernel. With the growing traction of the app store, it is only a matter of time before the apps in the Windows Phone ecosystem overtakes Android and iOS.
    12Danny123 and brmiller1976 like this.
    11-17-2012 02:55 PM
  17. 12Danny123's Avatar
    I agree with this. Wp8 does have Consumer Interest
    11-17-2012 03:00 PM
  18. jjmurphy's Avatar
    Enterprise side, MS will sell phones. They can be managed by endpoint manager. That alone will make any business that wants to be secure and is an MS shop go that way.
    Consumer side...I hate to say it, but it is all apps. If you're last to get apps, and they're bad ports, no one is going to adopt your platform long term. I find it soooo frustrating. I would rather have not gotten WWF or DS. Get us what the next big things are day and date as other platforms. Angry Birds SW is a start. We need unity games, we need them now. We also need UE games. And as much as I don't use instagram, it's necessary immediately.
    11-17-2012 03:08 PM
  19. TaliZorah's Avatar
    Yes WP will succeed. There is plenty of room in the market for it. It may take a bit to take a big chunk but there are enough users to warrant it's existance.
    12Danny123 likes this.
    11-17-2012 03:09 PM
  20. iamtim's Avatar
    And as much as I don't use instagram, it's necessary immediately.
    ...and for as much as I tend to minimize the situation with WP8 apps, I agree with this post. The Facebook and Twitter apps are good enough for the common user, but the lack of an Instagram app could be a major factor.

    Hey, do you guys know how much a hipster weighs? An Instagram! :D

    Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway, yeah, if Instagram isn't going to write a WP8 app themselves, Microsoft should approach them with intent to license the full API for an official-yet-Microsoft-authored app.
    brmiller1976 likes this.
    11-17-2012 03:25 PM
  21. jwinch2's Avatar
    With the growing traction of the app store, it is only a matter of time before the apps in the Windows Phone ecosystem overtakes Android and iOS.

    We would have to see WP gaining on Android and iOS at a rate of 3:1 for a few years before the apps in WP come close to overtaking eitherr one of them. There was a good article on WP Central several months ago showing the rate of app growth across platforms, and the dominance of Apple and Android was so overwhelming that it wasn't even a race. As I encouraged earlier, I am hopeful that Microsoft will strongly incentivize the developers of the top rated apps in each category on those two platforms to develop for WP.
    11-17-2012 08:38 PM
  22. jwinch2's Avatar
    I was being facetious, sorry (it's a core competency of mine). :D

    I just figured I'd invoke a less likely route of terrible possibility in order to liven things up a bit in the negative nancy threads. ;)
    No worries. In all fairness though, BB does have a strong footprint still in the business world. If MS can convince some of them that their security is as strong and make it easy for IT people to manage, they could see adoption in business, which would be huge for the future of the platform.
    11-17-2012 08:40 PM
  23. Ebaneeezor's Avatar
    With Symbian dead, and BB market share hemorrhaging, WP should naturally take a default 10% share with little effort. I work in the DOD and already see the WP push as its a natural fit in the environment and Apple already has told the DOD, well, basically screw off we are not doing what you want. Don't forget how late Xbox was to the party, who rules that arena now? who's OS is the backbone of the world and most Government? Who owns the PC home market? who owns the Office software market? WP now compliments these key areas naturally and just needs some market maturity and awareness and it will be fine. Everything, in life, require two elements, time and pressure.
    11-17-2012 09:00 PM
  24. socialcarpet's Avatar
    We are all doomed! Windows Phone will be washed away by the unstoppable tidal wave of BlackBerry 10!
    11-17-2012 09:15 PM
  25. socialcarpet's Avatar
    People tend to want phones that resemble functionality and appearance to their home PCs, with win8 selling well now I expect WP8 to be the same based on this fact alone.
    No they don't....yet.

    But you're on the right track. Microsoft's goal is to demonstrate the appeal that prospect would hold. Very soon millions of people people will have Windows 8 PC's on their desk at home and suddenly Windows Phone's interface is going to make sense to them and look very familiar and friendly. Then we'll see what's up.
    11-17-2012 09:18 PM
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