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05-14-2013 11:10 AM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    a5cent, MSFT is sitting on a potential identity: "if you want seamless and integrated EXPERIENCE that lets you be as social and productive as you uniquely are across ALL devices".
    Yes, I agree. My point wasn't that Microsoft can't build an identity for WP, but that they so far haven't. If I were in charge, I would focus on these three things:

    • As you mentioned, the ability to seamlessly sync the state of many different windows applications across all your windows based devices.
    • Gaming. With that I mean exclusive titles, that are perfectly optimized for WP devices, all of them built to a level of technical sophistication that goes far beyond what a cross-platform title can ever hope to offer. That should come with a large serving of developer support/documentation and free WP optimized gaming middleware + toolsets.
    • The enterprise. Details omitted...

    In all of those areas, Microsoft has unique opportunities that their competition can't easily replicate. Of course, being the best at something is pretty useless if nobody knows about it, so marketing must be a major part of any such effort. However, as far as I can tell, Blue aims only to make the first one of those three a reality...
    ChMar likes this.
    03-29-2013 11:10 PM
  2. abel920's Avatar
    I am extremely excited to see a good 'ol fashioned Apple- Microsoft show down, once they destroy Android tablets.
    Android is thriving SOLELY on market share and not profits. Once the Android ecosystem gets too stale, meaning there can't be anymore profits to be made, developers will realize that Windows platform is the best to go. Too much apps can kill an ecosystem because you can only have too many apps before no one even bothers to make them anymore. When there are no developers, there will be no market share.

    I think Windows is just the perfect platform for developers and profits just because we're now transitioning into a seamless Windows tablet, phone, desktop integration. And on top of that, Microsoft PCs (desktop) already has 90% market share worldwide, so that gives Windows App developers a CLEAR and easy advantage.

    AND IT'S BEEN 90% ALREADY FOR 20 YEARS, AND IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.
    So developers will have no worries.



    I mean let's face it. Without iPad and iPhone, Apple is dead, and to be honest they're already starting to go down just because the apps are already there, 700,000 apps, and there's no more money to be made. And if the time comes where iOS developers give up on Apple apps, Apple will die - they have nothing else to lean on with their MacBook 3% share. I mean Android is already eating away iPhone market share after iPhone became #1 for only what.. 2 or 3 years?

    In the end, Apple and Android are they're own demise. Microsoft on the other hand, has proved time and time again, they will always get the last laugh.

    This is why, I am a loyal worshipper of Microsoft, Nokia, Lord Elop, and Lord Almighty Bill Gatessiah. Not so much on Baldmer though.

    The GODS of technology, and the GODS of patents and mobiles will rise again to pass judgements on those who are false prophets. The destruction of Apple and Android is NEAR.

    Last edited by abel920; 03-30-2013 at 04:43 PM.
    marciocattini likes this.
    03-30-2013 04:32 PM
  3. ChMar's Avatar
    Yes, I agree. My point wasn't that Microsoft can't build an identity for WP, but that they so far haven't. If I were in charge, I would focus on these three things:

    • As you mentioned, the ability to seamlessly sync the state of many different windows applications across all your windows based devices.
    • Gaming. With that I mean exclusive titles, that are perfectly optimized for WP devices, all of them built to a level of technical sophistication that goes far beyond what a cross-platform title can ever hope to offer. That should come with a large serving of developer support/documentation and free WP optimized gaming middleware + toolsets.
    • The enterprise. Details omitted...

    In all of those areas, Microsoft has unique opportunities that their competition can't easily replicate. Of course, being the best at something is pretty useless if nobody knows about it, so marketing must be a major part of any such effort. However, as far as I can tell, Blue aims only to make the first one of those three a reality...
    -The enterprise is presented as LOB(line of business) Hub. I don't think you are going to see much coverage for it in traditional media. It's not a feature for mass consumers so it's not something that you can sell on tv ads or youtube videos or any one cares to blog about. But I'm sure that in the enterprise cases they promote it better. Still that only means you do need enterprise apps and there is a shortage of truly qualified wp8 developers(an abundance of ios devs and a load of medium to advanced android devs out there). So this is corporate business. Is it viable to build a company specialized in building wp8 apps when it has such a small market share? And we all know companies are not adept at taking risks.

    -Gaming will improve now that the full DX stack is implemented. But making quality AAA games is a 2 year process for consoles and between 3-6 month for game held devices. And still most companies use middleware so their game quality depends on the quality of the middleware. I'm sure Microsoft Studios is making pushes in this area but it still needs time to achieve results.

    -If you look in the SDK for windows 8 and look at how the data files are structures for a modern(metro) app you see there is already support for roaming your settings and preferences. So this means you get that on wp8 as well. But you need new apps for both windows 8 and wp8(3rd party apps to take advantage of this).There are some size limitations for the amount of data you can roam across devices(does not matter here that we are talking windows 8 devices or windows phone 8 devices). But this approach needs to be adopted by 3rd party software developers. And so far they still have difficulties in adapting to a live tile world and notifications approach the way where most of your work is delegated to cloud servers.

    Marketing is serious problem. MS can market windows 8 because it can sell it to you. As a dvd from which you can install the OS and as a physical product the surface. For windows phone 8 it's a lot harder to market. You can't market the OS because you don't actually sell it. You can't showcase it's use without using a phone(should it be Lumia or HTC?). In the youtube videos campaign they kept an equal showing of their flagship devices showcasing htc 8x and lumia 920 in equal videos. But that is a lot easier to do over internet that it is over tv ads. And sincerely shouldn't OEM market their own devices? It's not good business for MS to market someone else devices antagonizing the rest of OEMs in the process. So this is a difficult subject.
    03-30-2013 04:51 PM
  4. ChMar's Avatar
    Android is thriving SOLELY on market share and not profits. Once the Android ecosystem gets too stale, meaning there can't be anymore profits to be made, developers will realize that Windows platform is the best to go. Too much apps can kill an ecosystem because you can only have too many apps before no one even bothers to make them anymore. When there are no developers, there will be no market share.

    I think Windows is just the perfect platform for developers and profits just because we're now transitioning into a seamless Windows tablet, phone, desktop integration. And on top of that, Microsoft PCs (desktop) already has 90% market share worldwide, so that gives Windows App developers a CLEAR and easy advantage.

    So developers will have no worries.
    Desktop is dying. Most people are browsing and doing stuff on their smartphones those days. Desktop will remain in enterprises for productivity but will be flushed from casual people houses. So I won't bet too much on that desktop advantage.

    The android ecosystem will never be defeated. We no longer leave in a world where you buy software. I'm not talking about games I'm talking about software products. You use services. So it's a service-oriented world. Services are only profitable if accessed and used by many. This is how it's possible to have free google access, free youtube access, free facebook and twitter access. You don't take money from your pockets to pay for those servers because the companies running those services makes money by you using them. So the market share of android is it's biggest strength. It's a service-oriented world day dream. And because android is so open it let those service provider to be much more effective at data mining users data than on ios or wp8 platforms.

    Remember when android was born. Google plain simple refused to make a market where you could sell your app. It tried it's best to keep the market free and force users to use their adds machine to make up for the costs. And years later you find that android users all expect free software and don't mind the adds so much anymore. So android was never about quality it was about becoming the next platform for google to data mine and serve adds.

    So always the big name that will be the next success will create services(facebook, instagram, Pandora you name it) not software(office or actual software that can run locally and do stuff). Those can be free because having access to such a large users audience(android landscape) they can collect lots of data that they can use for advertisement or the next big data algorithm services.

    And considering no one likes to provide apps for it's services on 3 or more platforms ios or wp8 or bb10 will someday die. But android will continue to dominate.
    theefman likes this.
    03-30-2013 05:03 PM
  5. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Android is thriving SOLELY on market share and not profits. Once the Android ecosystem gets too stale, meaning there can't be anymore profits to be made, developers will realize that Windows platform is the best to go. Too much apps can kill an ecosystem because you can only have too many apps before no one even bothers to make them anymore. When there are no developers, there will be no market share.

    I think Windows is just the perfect platform for developers and profits just because we're now transitioning into a seamless Windows tablet, phone, desktop integration. And on top of that, Microsoft PCs (desktop) already has 90% market share worldwide, so that gives Windows App developers a CLEAR and easy advantage.

    AND IT'S BEEN 90% ALREADY FOR 20 YEARS, AND IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...0vdvo1_500.gif
    So developers will have no worries.



    I mean let's face it. Without iPad and iPhone, Apple is dead, and to be honest they're already starting to go down just because the apps are already there, 700,000 apps, and there's no more money to be made. And if the time comes where iOS developers give up on Apple apps, Apple will die - they have nothing else to lean on with their MacBook 3% share. I mean Android is already eating away iPhone market share after iPhone became #1 for only what.. 2 or 3 years?

    In the end, Apple and Android are they're own demise. Microsoft on the other hand, has proved time and time again, they will always get the last laugh.

    This is why, I am a loyal worshipper of Microsoft, Nokia, Lord Elop, and Lord Almighty Bill Gatessiah. Not so much on Baldmer though.

    The GODS of technology, and the GODS of patents and mobiles will rise again to pass judgements on those who are false prophets. The destruction of Apple and Android is NEAR.

    If this post had some mention of Roswell UFO sightings as well as a shout out to the New world order it would be perfect!

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Muessig likes this.
    03-30-2013 08:26 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    If this post had some mention of Roswell UFO sightings as well as a shout out to the New world order it would be perfect!
    Well, he did redefine the meaning of fanboy ;-)
    03-31-2013 02:10 AM
  7. X0LARIUM's Avatar
    Can I share a different perspective. Being on an Android Flagship, I read plenty about what's going on. So here it is. Anyone follow S4's launch? Just a customary mention of Android 4.2.2. That's about it. We are not talking about some godforsaken OEM. We are talking Big Sammy here.

    My point? There is already a growing rift between Android and Sammy. No one is really impressed with Sammy anymore. More specs...? Naaah...
    Bigger screen...? Naaah.
    A screen that tracks your eyes? Wooooh..oh wait...Naaah.

    Apple as u all know stands nowhere near where it used to.

    Who is left? Windows Phone.

    But is that all? Is the opponent's loss MSFT's gain? No. MSFT has some really strong points it needs to pull people.

    Apps - the numbers growing by the day
    Specs - Outstanding optimisation along with the hardware
    Security - not one single person is able to crack it open yet
    MSFT - THE name says it all.

    My two cents...

    Sent from my Π Σ Χ U S 4.
    03-31-2013 11:23 AM
  8. astraith's Avatar
    I have watch Windows Phone Operating System grow from WP7 all the way through to today. We have come a long way in just a couple of years and WP8 is really growing fast for an OS that is only 6 months old. Understand that WP7 and WP8 are not the same OS the two are fundamentally the same but the base software has been changed. The new WP8 OS is built for the future. We all know the common complaints by people new to the system. From the beginning simple had been the Metro standard. I think that is hard for some people to accept. Average consumers lover it but some of those more versed want more control over their devices. Microsoft keeps moving forwarded with the growth of this OS adding more options along the way. I think Microsoft is still doing a good job of integrating new features while keeping the OS simple. One by one the dislikes get wiped away. Even individual developers are getting into the act by making their apps sharper and richer with each update. I myself have seen more than 20 app updates on my phone this very week. With all that is going on with all the updates and upgrades that we know about, what do you think is WP here to stay? What do you think about the future of WP? Is there anyone that still thinks the Microsoft will abandon WP? Why? I just want to know where this community thinks we are and where do you think we are headed. Do you think we are on the right path? Do you think there is any reason way this OS wont some day be a contender with Apple and Android? Please no one line answers. Explain what you are thinking and why you are think that.
    I'll go more in depth in a future post, but in essence I agree with you. I do want to say MS is not going to give up on Mobile. Windows 8. Should put that to rest. Why position your main product to work so close with a product your not committed to? MS WP IS here to. Stay.
    03-31-2013 04:56 PM
  9. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Guess for those who like to whine about Instagram, it is here. Not officially available for download yet, but it is in the Store. Guess they may cut it loose tomorrow. I tell you, if MSFT keeps putting out new "headline" apps every Monday, they should just call it "MSFT Mondays".

    Slowly but surely, MSFT is fixing the "app issue". That's nice, but personally I want tighter integration of the core apps and an even smoother UI experience.
    03-31-2013 09:09 PM
  10. mparker's Avatar
    Guess for those who like to whine about Instagram, it is here
    It's also April 1st.
    04-01-2013 08:23 AM
  11. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    It's also April 1st.
    Yup. Looks like someone decided to prank a bunch of folks today. Still, I like the newer pace MSFT is adding apps. It would be nice for that to have been Instragran to stop the clamoring for it, but FB is too busy with their FB phone plans right now. SMH @ a FB phone...
    04-01-2013 08:26 AM
  12. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Yup. Looks like someone decided to prank a bunch of folks today...
    Yep. Some developer best hope his name never gets out, because if it does WP users are going to give him a hounding.
    04-01-2013 08:49 AM
  13. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Yep. Some developer best hope his name never gets out, because if it does WP users are going to give him a hounding.
    Agreed. If there was ever a candidate eligible to get backlisted, this cat would be it.
    04-01-2013 10:27 AM
  14. jcagga's Avatar
    It could have been heading to better direction, but definitely not where Microsoft would have wanted it to be. Controlling your game with WP has been Microsoft's dream since wp7. I still don't see it. No qwerty phones from any manufacturers from wp8 tells me thag Microsoft is either not supporting qwerty or they ran out of time. I do wish one day WP can have all the gestures found on Windows 8.
    04-04-2013 10:30 AM
  15. SpiralBorg's Avatar
    Microsoft`s goal, in the end isn`t to overtake Android and IOS.
    But to have that 3rd ground, for people who want an fluid interface, and great peformance.
    Its certainly caught my attention.
    04-05-2013 06:28 PM
  16. ChMar's Avatar
    It could have been heading to better direction, but definitely not where Microsoft would have wanted it to be. Controlling your game with WP has been Microsoft's dream since wp7. I still don't see it. No qwerty phones from any manufacturers from wp8 tells me thag Microsoft is either not supporting qwerty or they ran out of time. I do wish one day WP can have all the gestures found on Windows 8.
    I'm not sure that all those gestures in windows 8 are good for windows phone 8. The size of the screen the usage with one hand all makes it very hard to show the charms bar. The from the top gesture to kill apps in windows 8 I don't think they intended it to be there. But once you can use alt+f4 to close any program then it made sense to include a gesture for that too to ensure consistency. The gesture to bring the old apps from the apps task on to the foreground also seams a bit out of place on windows phone devices. And I don't know that users will appreciate the chaos swipe will do for them to have panorama scroll and also bring the charms depending on there you have your finger at the beginning of the move. In usability terms I think most of windows 8 gestures won't come to windows phone 8. Share and file system providers will make it eventually(I hope they should have been there from the beginning but that migration was too much to ask from devs and would have break a lot of old wp7 apps) and this move will also solve the file manager situation and some of the "other storage" problem(I think this is one reason we don't have a solution yet from ms). And the search contracts I'm sure in future upgrade will be there and usable in any app.
    04-05-2013 06:43 PM
  17. ticktock5's Avatar
    Easy question. Maybe about a year ago when we were all waiting eagerly for wp8, I had hope. But now, the biggest issue this OS faces - lack of quality apps - has not been addressed, and consumers will not take it seriously until it is.

    I really thought back then that MS had the money and clout to attract third party app developers, *even if marketshare wise, it may not have made financial sense to develop for it. Certainly, it worked for some, but the big guns are not touching WP with a ten foot pole.

    Case in point? Facebook. Not having a real Facebook app, and no the MS one or the apps all over the marketplace that are essentially touch.facebook.com do not count, is pathetic.

    And all the media coverage about Home is just sad. None of the articles in the lay press even mention WP. It's all, how will this affect iPhone. They don't even mention that WP has been attempting to do all Home can do and more since the start (although obviously Home will be smoother and have more functionality since it's coming from Facebook itself.)

    And if you don't care for social networking, it's still bleak out there. Look t how many threads here are discussing workarounds for non existing or non functional apps people enjoyed on android and iOS. You might be willing to take some extra steps, but the average person, if the guy at AT&T doesn't immediately turn them off the phone by telling them it doesn't have instagram, will rush to return it when they find it can't easily do what they're use to.

    I do think MS will keep throwing money at this, but they won't succeed alone.
    jleebiker and theefman like this.
    04-06-2013 12:03 AM
  18. Jay_P_Harris's Avatar
    IMO the answer to the question is we dont know yet. The real question is what is Microsoft doing to push Windows Phone in the right direction for it to succeed?

    As a few others have stated, the lack of quality apps and the commitment to consistently rolling out updates is still a alarming issue. The official Facebook app for example, does not include chat, tagging friends in statues/ comments, cant share other friends statuses, does not have search feature, major lags with the news feed, and toast notifications are constantly 30-45 minutes late. Those examples are just off the top of my head that I can remember. Keep in mind, this app has been on the market for 2 plus years and aside from from minor update releases, still causes alot of people who are big into social networking to jump ship from WP to Android/iOS.

    Microsoft still needs to support older generation users especially the 7.5 and 7.8 crowd. I am currently a Samsung Focus 7.5 owner who was promise an update to 7.8 way back to Thanksgiving, then it got pushed to the end of the year, then got pushed to the end of February then nothing after that. Yes I know I can user the 78er method, but as I mentioned in another thread my buddy who has the same phone, under contract used the 78er method and was fine for about a month and all of a sudden his home screen dissapeared. He couldnt do a hard reset or flash his ROM so he was completly out of luck. Ive seen alot of people have no issues with force updating, but why are the customers doing all the grunt work/research to updating their phone when Microsoft can just simply have the carriers BETA test the update, and make the necessary improvements without the customers being the guinea pig. Ive heard the "be patient" chant before, but it gets really old when I see Microsoft roll out WP8 and all the updates to those customers but have completely left WP7 in the dark. It also dosent give me any confidence that if I decide to update to WP8 or Blue that within a year I will continue to get the proper updates necessary to keep my phone properly operating.

    Toast notifications is also another major issue Microsoft has ignored. Sometimes I dont get notifications to my email because of the wifi disconnections when the phone gets idle and has been the determining factor in me leaving WP....Bottom line is there is so much more I can write, but I am tired and just hope Microsoft can get it together.
    04-07-2013 07:22 AM
  19. Vb2012's Avatar
    Well people Windows phone 8 has been growing very fast for example games are coming in as they should certain apps are also here and more coming.

    The newest Bluetooth controllers being supported in a fashion so we can see Microsoft not forgetting about the mobile gamers :D

    I also like Microsoft 's new way of taking mobile payment seriously via in app purchases :P

    All I can say its looking great so far windows phone not die ing of just yet ;D ;]
    04-08-2013 01:59 PM
  20. zachjjackson's Avatar
    cool story bro
    04-08-2013 02:00 PM
  21. Vb2012's Avatar
    cool story bro
    really come on :'(
    04-08-2013 02:01 PM
  22. zachjjackson's Avatar
    really come on :'(
    lol sorry I had too haha you make good points tho ..
    04-08-2013 02:10 PM
  23. dgr_874's Avatar
    I think that the next big update (Windows blue or 8.5 or whatever) will give me all the information to see how Microsoft is going to proceed with this. If most of the issues get fixed (Xbox music, volume control, etc...) then Microsoft may have a winner because it shows they listen to their customers (unlike apple) and respond with fixes. For me, support means everything. It started way back when Nokia gave me a credit for my data problem with my new lumia 900. That's why I have a lumia 920 today. I buy plenty of windows phone apps to support developers too. If Microsoft fails to fix many of the issues with their next big patch, I'll have to think long and hard if I'm going to stick with windows phone. Just my opinion of course.
    04-08-2013 05:11 PM
  24. justcurious#WN's Avatar
    I think WP is already the 3rd ecosystem, and the platform will continue with slow and steady growth. The biggest issues for Microsoft at this point are app quality(not quantity) and marketing. They need to rename windows phone. The windows brand (in the us) is not doing them any favors. Of course, I know alot people still on XP, so that likely colors their opinions of the brand.
    04-11-2013 05:58 AM
  25. boxa72's Avatar
    Alot of peepz in tha US aren't even aware that WP is Nokia which has gotta hurt branding, market penetration, etc as tha Nokia brand ppl trust (I've only ever used Nokia) but not so much Microsoft. I think just brand it a *uckin Nokia n leave tha Windows out of it altogether!!!
    abel920 likes this.
    04-11-2013 07:20 AM
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