WP8 Blue Concept.

[Flan Tamarind]

^Android didn't take long to gain traction because it was the only real alternative to the iPhone when it was launched. It also was on extremely cheap devices. And because OEMs and Carriers can do whatever they want with it, they loved it and pushed the hell out of.

Android was missing features when it was launched too and took longer to get apps than Windows Phone.

Could the settings section use some categorization? Sure. But I use third party apps to pin WiFi, Bluetooth etc to the start screen.

I have an iPhone 4 and find it some of its functionality "catastrophic" too.

None of this is proof as to why Windows Phone doesn't have basic features such as folders for apps, wallpapers, or single press feature toggles for data connections which android has had since launch. Turning around and picking on iOS for having catastrophic functionality, while merited, is a moot point. If we lived in the world where iOS and Android didn't exist, then WP would still be lacking in these basic features. The fact that WP doesn't have some of these basic necessities at this point in the race is indicative of a greater problem within the WP production process. Instead of finishing the base feature set, the WP has done stuff like Kid's Corner! Hooray! Now my non existent child has a place where they cant mess up my all important emails and text messages and play their games! Thanks Joe Belfiore for watching out for my future career and my future spawn!

I'm quite aware of these short comings in Windows Phone. I am a Windows Phone user because I like the idea of the single ecosystem to rule them all. I am not beyond calling Microsoft out for their failings, of which there has been quite a few. Alas, this is getting off topic.

My point, the entire time, is that WP is not perfect. In order to be a great OS it is going to have to adopt a lot of the features present in this WP Blue concept. Maybe not in the same shape, but in some way these features NEED to be integrated into WP. Otherwise we will not see a market share anywhere near iOS, let alone Android. That's the saddest fact. A giant like Microsoft cant compete because it refuses to carry over the features of its desktop OS that users really enjoy, which they also incidentally took out of the Start Screen in Windows 8 and hey, would you look at that, they're reintegrating the start button, custom wall papers, and custom color options because you know what? It turns out people really like those things.

 

[Flan Tamarind]

Please use a civil tone when posting. Be a pro.

P.U.P.P.A.H
(Be Polite, Understanding, Patient, Professional, Attentive and Helpful)


http://forums.mobilenations.com/rules-policies/500-community-rules-guidelines.html

I apologize if my comments came across as impolite. I was being more snarky than anything else. If my opinions are deemed as impolite, then sorry.

 

[manicottiK]

...if I want to switch on data or Bluetooth or NFC...turn off Wifi or something...

This strikes me a normal kind of thing for someone to say if they are coming to WP from Android or Windows Mobile. There's a lot of desire in the competent users of those OSs to "manage" their phones a lot. (I used to flash ROMs on my HD2 more often than I want to admit.) Windows Phone doesn't facilitate that, but it's OK to me now because the phone "just works" without its user needing to play system administrator. One can leave WiFi, Bluetooth, and NFC on all the time and battery life is fine (notwithstanding the occasional drain issues that many have seen and that we all consider a defect). Given that, one may want, but does not need, convenient switches for those toggles because the OS ensures that there isn't a need to be flipping things on and off on a regular basis.

...App groups are no different from people groups...

I'm with you here and really like how you answered by extending a known WP metaphor so that "no groups" people can relate. (Hopefully, no one will suggest getting rid of people groups.

...cant set independent volumes...

I agree here, too. I think that MS went overboard on their simplification quest. When they lost the separate ringer/non-ringer volume controls, they also lost profiles, which need to return.

...cant customized your colors with any sort of granularity...can't pick a specific background color either.

From the get-go, Microsoft instructed developers to work with "system colors" rather than specific colors. That means that my code contains references to things like PhoneBrushBackground, PhoneBrushBackgroundContrast, PhoneBrushForeground, PhoneBrushAccent, etc. Microsoft chose accent colors to ensure good contrast with the foreground and colors. (So, my apps almost never color text black or white, but rather they color it foreground or background.) Using this "system colors" scheme lets my app looks like it "belongs" on the phone.

Letting users pick any color as the accent or any color as the background could result in inadequate contrast combinations, which could render well-written apps unusable. This could make users blame developers instead of themselves for bad color choices or Microsoft for introducing the foreground/background/accent system in the first place.

As Microsoft walks a path between Google and Apple in terms of complexity and options, they went toward the Apple side of not trusting users to make good choices. While I almost always want more choice, I think that Microsoft recognized that most users aren't good at recognizing the complexity behind some choices.

 

[spaulagain]

^Exactly

It amazes me the number of people that don't understand the consequences of 100% flexibility in color choice. It would be a usability nightmare.

I think people are so used to the "old ways" of computers/phones they can't get past that and recognize the new way Microsoft has layed out for us. Its a beautiful thing really.

 

[Flan Tamarind]

This strikes me a normal kind of thing for someone to say if they are coming to WP from Android or Windows Mobile... Windows Phone doesn't facilitate that, but it's OK to me now because the phone "just works" without its user needing to play system administrator. One can leave WiFi, Bluetooth, and NFC on all the time and battery life is fine (notwithstanding the occasional drain issues that many have seen and that we all consider a defect). Given that, one may want, but does not need, convenient switches for those toggles because the OS ensures that there isn't a need to be flipping things on and off on a regular basis.

If this were actually the case, then I wouldn't even mention it. I can't tell you how many times I have come home from work, where there is no wifi, while my wifi is switched on and try to browse something while on the can. During this time, internet related services run like crap because, and I'm assuming here, that the phone doesn't realize it's in a wifi zone when it is and it's instead still using my data connection. So any time I leave my apartment and come back, I experience severe load times on anything data related. The only solution for this that has worked 100% is to turn Wifi off completely when I leave and turn it back on when I get home. This is a minor annoyance, but one I experience every day. There would be a simple way to solve this, such as allowing location specific profiles that change the nature of the phone for you without having to prompt you, but we have nothing like that. So I have to go into settings every time I want to shut off the Wifi. In my case, which I am sure I'm not alone in, I actually would very much like, dare I say need without being branded a baby, Live Tiles that function like single press switches as Android provides. This is one of those small features that goes a long way for people like myself who don't follow "just works" mentality. I go by my personal experience and considering how many people are in the world, I cannot be alone. Therefore it doesn't "just work", it simply "just works most of the time for some people in various scenarios".

I think the major misunderstanding here is not that the OS is garbage. It's that just because someone at Microsoft says it "just works" means absolutely nothing in real world applications. Same goes for Live Tiles working half the time. Ive only seen my MetroTube tile flip twice and Ive had it on my start for about 3 months now in double wide form.

This isn't the thread to go into other issues with the "just works" mentality, but trust me those aren't the only scenarios I have experienced on WP 7, 7.x, and 8.

Letting users pick any color as the accent or any color as the background could result in inadequate contrast combinations, which could render well-written apps unusable. This could make users blame developers instead of themselves for bad color choices or Microsoft for introducing the foreground/background/accent system in the first place.

Entirely true, but there is hardly an argument to be made against including a pop up explaining that very situation to ensure the user understands that eventuality. Not to mention we're essentially talking about one single theme color here and that certain apps have options to allow the user to forgo the theme color for a standard app theme.

 

[Dazzi]

^ Right, now that you have insulted us with baguettes etc, and also taken all your anger out on us, would it possible to ask you a question?

If the answer is yes, then what do you actually think about the concept that is the topic of discussion?

 

[Twitter@Firas_MD]

What do you guys think of this one ill post 2 images in a separate post

 

[Flan Tamarind]

I suppose I'm not going to be taken seriously without giving a full write up of my opinions on the entire concept, so here goes.

The entire intro sequence is a far better tool for understanding the device than what we have now, which is bare bones.

The start screen is fantastic. I personally enjoy the super big tile because I can see other uses than taking up a bunch of space. I've always felt there should be support for any kind of tile that a developer would want to make and I am willing to admit that I may be in the minority there. Yanko states clearly that this particular concept is of a 5 inch 1080p display, so everything on the start screen looks perfect in my eyes.

Next are app groups which are too long in the making it. I love how currently in WP there are only 2 groups of apps: apps and games. Sure one is walled off in a "hub", but it may as well be a group. How is it that this isn't a standard feature yet is completely beyond me.

The Device Center is also fantastic. It groups everything you could want to know about the status of your phone in one place. The only improvement I could suggest here is to make it a panorama style app where Notifications, Settings, and Connections were their own tabs. It goes without saying that this should be a tile and not a gesture, unless it was performed by a long press of the Windows key and move the voice search to a long press of the Search key. This has actually long been confusing to me. If you're using voice to launch or search you're still looking for something with your voice. It makes a lot more sense to be a long press of the search key.

The file manager is boss. It's got great contrast and is in keeping with the metro style up till the solid color borders around everything. Maybe unnecessary but also not worth criticizing. Since we can't attach anything we want to an email yet there really is no need for a true file browser. Not that we may want to or anything.

These last two features are the only place I'm picking up an Android vibe and honestly they're some of the only things I liked about Android.

I think the problem here is people keep arguing over what WP should and shouldn't do. This is limiting. Windows wasn't successful because it limited people. It was successful because with the right knowledge or no knowledge you could sit down, learn how to use a mouse, and then do what you came to do without the software stopping you. WP is stopping some people and turning them away for the reasons that Android is successful. As I said, WP will never be like Android. They are at their core very different things. To suggest that WP can't learn a trick or two from Android is just silly. Features that some of us never use are VITAL to people who use Android. You have to ask yourself, why are they vital? They MUST serve a purpose to those users and for Microsoft to tell all of us that File Browsing and App Groups are so last year is insulting to all of us, more so than a baguette to the forehead.

 

[nessinhaw]

Features that some of us never use are VITAL to people who use Android. You have to ask yourself, why are they vital? They MUST serve a purpose to those users and for Microsoft to tell all of us that File Browsing and App Groups are so last year is insulting to all of us, more so than a baguette to the forehead.

hmmm i don't think that apply to EVERYONE...i'm a former Android user, had it for a long time...don't you think i was used to one-toggle switches? to separate volume controls? notifications? file manager? being able to tweak my device whenever i wanted (rooting and so on)?

STILL i decided to make the jump to WP! i knew it lacked many of this small features, i knew where i was getting myself into and guess what? it's been almost 2 months since i bought my Lumia 620 and i don't really miss any of the things i mentioned above...in fact, i'm impressed to how fast i got used to WP ways of doing things!

would it be nice to have notifications, one-toggle switches and all this small tweaks? sure it would, but i wouldn't say they are "OMFGICAN'TLEAVEWITHOUT"...i'd say they'd be an amazing addition to the OS but to say they are VITAL is a bit too extreme...and i'm not the only former Android user here, i won't speak for the others, but for myself, i can perfectly live without what you consider "vital"!

i think one of the main problems is lack of information when people decide to move from Android to WP...you have no idea how much i researched about WP before deciding to switch XD so like i said, i knew where i was getting myself into...BUT many people don't! if they can't live without those things, if they are vital, then i think they should stick to Android!
afterall we all should buy and use a device that serves our needs

 

[Flan Tamarind]

I'm not looking to derail the thread anymore, so let's get off the features that WP doesn't have and talk about the concept in stead. I still think its a step in the right direction.

 

[Dazzi]

Thankyou Flan Tamarind, I appreciate your opinion although it took a while to get there.

 

[Dazzi]

hmmm i don't think that apply to EVERYONE...i'm a former Android user, had it for a long time...don't you think i was used to one-toggle switches? to separate volume controls? notifications? file manager? being able to tweak my device whenever i wanted (rooting and so on)?

STILL i decided to make the jump to WP! i knew it lacked many of this small features, i knew where i was getting myself into and guess what? it's been almost 2 months since i bought my Lumia 620 and i don't really miss any of the things i mentioned above...in fact, i'm impressed to how fast i got used to WP ways of doing things!

would it be nice to have notifications, one-toggle switches and all this small tweaks? sure it would, but i wouldn't say they are "OMFGICAN'TLEAVEWITHOUT"...i'd say they'd be an amazing addition to the OS but to say they are VITAL is a bit too extreme...and i'm not the only former Android user here, i won't speak for the others, but for myself, i can perfectly live without what you consider "vital"!

i think one of the main problems is lack of information when people decide to move from Android to WP...you have no idea how much i researched about WP before deciding to switch XD so like i said, i knew where i was getting myself into...BUT many people don't! if they can't live without those things, if they are vital, then i think they should stick to Android!
afterall we all should buy and use a device that serves our needs

Thankyou, it's good to know your point of view in terms of being a former Android user.

 

[Dazzi]

What do you guys think of this one ill post 2 images in a separate post

Hi there, have you posted those images on here or a separate thread?

 

[Huime]

I suppose I'm not going to be taken seriously without giving a full write up of my opinions on the entire concept, so here goes.

The entire intro sequence is a far better tool for understanding the device than what we have now, which is bare bones.

The start screen is fantastic. I personally enjoy the super big tile because I can see other uses than taking up a bunch of space. I've always felt there should be support for any kind of tile that a developer would want to make and I am willing to admit that I may be in the minority there. Yanko states clearly that this particular concept is of a 5 inch 1080p display, so everything on the start screen looks perfect in my eyes.

Next are app groups which are too long in the making it. I love how currently in WP there are only 2 groups of apps: apps and games. Sure one is walled off in a "hub", but it may as well be a group. How is it that this isn't a standard feature yet is completely beyond me.

The Device Center is also fantastic. It groups everything you could want to know about the status of your phone in one place. The only improvement I could suggest here is to make it a panorama style app where Notifications, Settings, and Connections were their own tabs. It goes without saying that this should be a tile and not a gesture, unless it was performed by a long press of the Windows key and move the voice search to a long press of the Search key. This has actually long been confusing to me. If you're using voice to launch or search you're still looking for something with your voice. It makes a lot more sense to be a long press of the search key.

The file manager is boss. It's got great contrast and is in keeping with the metro style up till the solid color borders around everything. Maybe unnecessary but also not worth criticizing. Since we can't attach anything we want to an email yet there really is no need for a true file browser. Not that we may want to or anything.

These last two features are the only place I'm picking up an Android vibe and honestly they're some of the only things I liked about Android.

I think the problem here is people keep arguing over what WP should and shouldn't do. This is limiting. Windows wasn't successful because it limited people. It was successful because with the right knowledge or no knowledge you could sit down, learn how to use a mouse, and then do what you came to do without the software stopping you. WP is stopping some people and turning them away for the reasons that Android is successful. As I said, WP will never be like Android. They are at their core very different things. To suggest that WP can't learn a trick or two from Android is just silly. Features that some of us never use are VITAL to people who use Android. You have to ask yourself, why are they vital? They MUST serve a purpose to those users and for Microsoft to tell all of us that File Browsing and App Groups are so last year is insulting to all of us, more so than a baguette to the forehead.

Since you do not get it, to be blunt the start screen has the wrong ambient that is inconsistency with the Metro UI. And there is a possible way to do it with an app however so far no dev has opt to do an Androidish skin.

2. Why do you even want to group tiles is beyond me. Tiles are suppose to give you a quick glance at all the "happenings". If an app is not a regular why leave it on the first page or even the tiles screen anyways. Compare this, if you have your similar app placed in a solid row, then swipe to the row and tab the app, with grouping you still need to swipe to the group, then tab group tab app. See? Its a matter of preference than say superior one of another. If you want it, there is an app for it, or you should ask for one. If you have everything group, then why do you need live tiles anyways?

3 Like the gentlemen above said, device center or whatever you call it is fine and good but it has to present in a WP way. You missed the point all together.

4 Likewise for the file manager.

5 All the rest of the rant is the result of your misunderstanding the point where we said function are good and welcome but it has to present in a Metro style, which unfortunately the designer had either no clue or decided to threw it away for the sake of creativity.

 

[Flan Tamarind]

Since you do not get it, to be blunt the start screen has the wrong ambient that is inconsistency with the Metro UI. And there is a possible way to do it with an app however so far no dev has opt to do an Androidish skin.

2. Why do you even want to group tiles is beyond me. Tiles are suppose to give you a quick glance at all the "happenings". If an app is not a regular why leave it on the first page or even the tiles screen anyways. Compare this, if you have your similar app placed in a solid row, then swipe to the row and tab the app, with grouping you still need to swipe to the group, then tab group tab app. See? Its a matter of preference than say superior one of another. If you want it, there is an app for it, or you should ask for one. If you have everything group, then why do you need live tiles anyways?

3 Like the gentlemen above said, device center or whatever you call it is fine and good but it has to present in a WP way. You missed the point all together.

4 Likewise for the file manager.

5 All the rest of the rant is the result of your misunderstanding the point where we said function are good and welcome but it has to present in a Metro style, which unfortunately the designer had either no clue or decided to threw it away for the sake of creativity.

I don't think you will see anyone attempt to re-skin WP via app. It may be possible with some dirty work arounds, but you wont see people wanting to have an entire UX app in the background while they're using regular apps, then have to hold back every time to get to the "home screen". No one would be so foolish.

Now to suggest there is no use for grouping apps is absurd. Some people don't like to use one app for a given thing, like music. If you don't need the functionality of the live tile but want to have options available, you then have to pin however many apps you'd like to use on a regular basis to your start. There have been numerous complaints about this as far back as I remember. There was an app created to do this, but it was un-official and had to be side loaded. You seem to think that to take a step backward in organization that has been around for 30 years for the sake of some User Interface rules is not only fine, but warranted. I don't consider the idea of using groups, but Windows Phone isn't just for me. It's supposed to be accessible from scratch. I feel it is a basic but necessary feature for the every man. You say that I've missed the point about the Device Center being to Un-Metro when I give a clear example of how to make it more like the Metro interface. Interesting.

The point is we shouldn't need a concept artist to dream up these features that our phones should already have. Instead, we argue over whether or not something is Metro enough. It's not a cardinal sin that can't be washed away. It's just disappointing, like when your dog pees on the carpet. You don't hate your dog! You wont throw it away! You just wish he would have learned to bark and paw the back door when he had to go. Maybe next time he'll know that trick. That's all.

 

[Dazzi]

I don't think you will see anyone attempt to re-skin WP via app. It may be possible with some dirty work arounds, but you wont see people wanting to have an entire UX app in the background while they're using regular apps, then have to hold back every time to get to the "home screen". No one would be so foolish.

Now to suggest there is no use for grouping apps is absurd. Some people don't like to use one app for a given thing, like music. If you don't need the functionality of the live tile but want to have options available, you then have to pin however many apps you'd like to use on a regular basis to your start. There have been numerous complaints about this as far back as I remember. There was an app created to do this, but it was un-official and had to be side loaded. You seem to think that to take a step backward in organization that has been around for 30 years for the sake of some User Interface rules is not only fine, but warranted. I don't consider the idea of using groups, but Windows Phone isn't just for me. It's supposed to be accessible from scratch. I feel it is a basic but necessary feature for the every man. You say that I've missed the point about the Device Center being to Un-Metro when I give a clear example of how to make it more like the Metro interface. Interesting.

The point is we shouldn't need a concept artist to dream up these features that our phones should already have. Instead, we argue over whether or not something is Metro enough. It's not a cardinal sin that can't be washed away. It's just disappointing, like when your dog pees on the carpet. You don't hate your dog! You wont throw it away! You just wish he would have learned to bark and paw the back door when he had to go. Maybe next time he'll know that trick. That's all.

I get your point regarding grouping apps, but how many group categories do you think there should be?

Furthermore, would there still be a need for the A-Z?

 

[spaulagain]

I get your point regarding grouping apps, but how many group categories do you think there should be?

Furthermore, would there still be a need for the A-Z?

I can understand some people may want categorization for apps kind of like on Windows 8, but I'm not sure how they would implement it.

I definitely wouldn't do app hubs. That seems counter productive and would take longer to get to an app than just using the alpha list.

 

[spaulagain]

I don't think you will see anyone attempt to re-skin WP via app. It may be possible with some dirty work arounds, but you wont see people wanting to have an entire UX app in the background while they're using regular apps, then have to hold back every time to get to the "home screen". No one would be so foolish.

Now to suggest there is no use for grouping apps is absurd. Some people don't like to use one app for a given thing, like music. If you don't need the functionality of the live tile but want to have options available, you then have to pin however many apps you'd like to use on a regular basis to your start. There have been numerous complaints about this as far back as I remember. There was an app created to do this, but it was un-official and had to be side loaded. You seem to think that to take a step backward in organization that has been around for 30 years for the sake of some User Interface rules is not only fine, but warranted. I don't consider the idea of using groups, but Windows Phone isn't just for me. It's supposed to be accessible from scratch. I feel it is a basic but necessary feature for the every man. You say that I've missed the point about the Device Center being to Un-Metro when I give a clear example of how to make it more like the Metro interface. Interesting.

The point is we shouldn't need a concept artist to dream up these features that our phones should already have. Instead, we argue over whether or not something is Metro enough. It's not a cardinal sin that can't be washed away. It's just disappointing, like when your dog pees on the carpet. You don't hate your dog! You wont throw it away! You just wish he would have learned to bark and paw the back door when he had to go. Maybe next time he'll know that trick. That's all.

I'd much rather not have features then too have them executed poorly like the concept in the OP. This isn't Android. If I wanted a disorganized, Hodge podge UI, I'd be on Android.

And I don't what the heck you are talking about, categorized apps have not been around for 30 years.

In fact, Windows 8 is the first OS I've seen that has real custom categorization for applications.

The point is Windows Phone has plenty of awesome, unique features that other smartphone OSes don't have, so it doesn't have some features they have. Don't like it? GTFO

 

[Flagz]

Ok I'm,going to request to,close this topic its causing to many arguments. Also I learned more than ever, everyone has a strong opinion. Yours is different than mine. I don't find this cluttered whatsoever.

 

[Dave Blake]

Thread closed OP Request.